Exclusive Preview: SPIDER-MAN / DEADPOOL #4

Lady Thor shown on a date with a strong male character? That is offensive! (just kidding but I am waiting for someone to send an angry email to Marvel and that cover design gets pulled)

People have been calling for Lady Thor's head the moment she picked up the hammer. What could be a worse fate than going on a date with Deadpool.

That being said, really love this series and can't wait to see how this goes.

What bothers me is not the concept of Lady Thor but rather that Marvel chose to change a famous character rather than promote their existing female characters. They even made a new Ms. Marvel, whom I actually like (her solo series, not when she became an avenger) but rather than promote Ms. Marvel and existing female heroes, they chose to essentially paint over an existing male hero.

This reminds me of the new F4 movie where Johnny Storm was black. Rather than support and promote existing black super heroes, whom there are many great ones (the first Blade movie came out 2 years before Spider-man), they simply changed the race of an existing character.

I like Marvels heroes, as they are and that includes every character of varying race and gender.

Marvel however loves making bad decisions, like showing pregnant Spider-woman still fighting crime, as though a gigantic stomach wouldn't be a massive target to enemies and wouldn't cause her to lose focus as she fights to protect herself and her unborn baby. Good role model Marvel.

Agreed 100% dude. Marvel has made 2 many dumb and unnecessary changes to well established characters. Thor loosing his worthiness, Miles continuing to be Spider Man when theres already a Spider Man, Iceman being Gay. It all unnecessary, lazy and downright unfaithful to the characters and us as comic readers.

Why not promote new characters or buildup existing characters instead of reducing Icons into gimmicks.

To Quote Stan Lee himself. "I think the world has a place for gay superheroes, certainly,” he said. “But again, I don’t see any reason to change the sexual proclivities of a character once they’ve already been established. I have no problem with creating new, homosexual superheroes.”

“It has nothing to do with being anti-gay, or anti-black, or anti-Latino, or anything like that,” Lee said. “Latino characters should stay Latino. The Black Panther should certainly not be Swiss. I just see no reason to change that which has already been established when it’s so easy to add new characters. I say create new characters the way you want to. Hell, I’ll do it myself.”

@captainrex: And Lee has it right and other creators like him have spoken out about this.

The problem is, people complain, people who don't even read comics complain about them and Marvel, being a company that wants to preserve its image and money, kowtows to the first cry-bullies who want change.

Which sucks. It doesn't just suck for comic book readers, it sucks for anyone who identifies with those existing characters regardless of their race, gender or sexuality.

If Marvel or DC or any comic company has an almost revolving door policy for how characters can change then what is the point of reading their comics? This week ____ is gay, next ____ is now straight and then next week ____ is a fish-man with existential issues.

The worst thing is that they're trying to stick modern issues of views on gender, race and sexuality onto characters whose jobs are to save the world from monsters, criminals and natural disasters....I think they have a little more on their plates than whether or not they feel their race is accurately represented.

As for new characters; new ones based in creativity like Ms. Marvel, like Static (when he first was introduced) and many others are often more well received than those who are forced on the public. You can't just make a character because someone says "well there aren't enough ____ in comics" and then expect the comic reading world to love them.

No one demanded a blind super hero, Daredevil was born from creativity and loved

No one demanded a female super hero, Wonder Woman was born from creativity (in the 40s!) and loved

It takes effort to create a character people love. Comics seem to have forgotten that. I just seems that anyone can be replaced or changed just so they can get attention and make money. Its sad really.

@captainrex: Exactly

So many whiners nowadays. lol

@the_titan_lord: Yeah got a little off topic.

We should be talking about how funny this is gonna be.

@doc-holiday: As someone who grew up with plenty of those characters, reading comics and is black, I have to disagree with quite a bit of that. The simply concept of changing a characters gender or race doesn't necisarly take anything away from who they were and what they represent. Especially since majority of characters have ALWAYS changed throughout the years. Sometimes it's something like their personality, other times it's their origin story, and plenty of heroes have changed their powersets or the specifics of how they work. Change is to superhero comics as much as hydrogen is to water. They're entire look and feel is subjected to their artists, writers and era they are born into. The only thing that stays the same is their basic concept. Which is interesting that none of this is brought up when race or gender are the things being changed. As if drastic change never existed until lady Thor appeared or something.

For Thor sure, he's specifically tied to Norse mythology. Him being anything but of euro-esque descendant would be weird. But someone like Johnny Storm and Fantastic four in general; nothing about who they are as people, their background and their accomplishments are not race specific. The thing about most white superheroes is that they aren't white super heroes. They are heroes that default to white.They don't necisarly live lives of white specifics, their race is never referred to or put up against a racial backdrop. Whereas guys like Luke Cage, Black Panther, and even dudes like Colossus have direct cultural ties and backgrounds rooted in their characters at creation.

Yes it does take effort to create good characters. However, Marvel and DC have large track records of royally crapping out the worst possible story lines and arcs for many of their popular characters. There was never any great track record of amazing story telling. It's all over the place. Which is also part of the charm of the comics. Don't like the dark version of a character, theirs more lighthearted ones that exist. Don't the lighthearted ones, theirs more hardcore gory versions of them. And for a lot of them, they aren't that great. But we like the characters never the less.

Finally the heroes have always stuck to modern day issues and been born out of them. I mean Superman was a walking(floating?) shot at patriotism during the great depression. He was the ideal. Not only that, he fought politicians, businessmen, sold war bonds, fought Nazi's and the like. Many immigrants consider his entire persona is that of an immigrant story battling concepts of assimilation and fear(those that feared superman as a monster). Comics have always followed the morality, thoughts and interests of the time. Let's not pretend as if they existed in a vacuum.

It would be great to see some focus on some PoC heroes as well. Some of them need some love. But it's also a big statement and acknowledgment to be blunt about the actual ambiguity of a lot of popular heroes. It's kind of hard to explain how significant changing the race on a popular white character to a minority is. But go on black instagram, twitter, forums, art spaces. You'll find ALOT of characters who are turned black. We want to see ourselves no only portrayed in the successful new(Ms. Marvel) but we also want to see ourselves portrayed in characters who are not defined by their whiteness. The act of changing their race is essentially telling us(especially children) "Hey, you can be Johnny Storm too!" It's something really deep rooted and emotional, especially in a western world where majority of heroes/role models(especially popular ones) are white. That's slowly changing and comics are catching onto that.

Changing a character in anyway is extremely neutral of a thing to do. Hands down. It requires hard work to actually make a good character. And I agree that they are sort of jumping on a bandwagon, trying to profit off of the market(that has existed in the fanbase for years) they just found out were reading. But bad writing is bad writing. Whether the character stays the same, or changes dramatically. If the writings bad, the writing is bad. But let's not pin that on something the comics industry has been doing since it's inception.

@captainrex: Alas. These kinda people like whining more about comics and characters they didn't made. Seriously. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Why should anyone feel insulted over a nonexistent character they didn't made. The idiocy of their logic and feelings are just so amusing. Let them(Marvel) do what they want with these characters.

I, personally, am Latino and couldn't give a rats @$$ about being "represented" in comics or whatever. If I never see a prominent Latino character front and center, I am completely fine and dandy. I don't need representation to feel valued. I value myself for who and what I am based on my own intelligence and accomplishments. Anyone who needs to feel represented in every aspect of social culture, needs to check their own self worth because it is pathetic to have to ruin great original concepts just to perpetuate the emotional weakness, and quite frankly, cerebral "dimwittedness" of those who feel they are "shunned" by society. Get over it! Keep my Thor a man and my F4 WHITE!!!! (as well as my Spidey)

@the_titan_lord: Well if you been buy a comic about your favorite character and then they all of sudden say this other character is now the character THE character while the main character becomes a second rate supporting character than yeah those who actually spend money on the comic has the right to complain about something they payed for.

@kingkaijuice: Actually I have complained about origin changes. You can look up my complaints on the newest wonder woman changes when instead of being made of clay they're saying she has masculine DNA to explain why she is so strong. It's dumb.

Personality is defined by the writer but other extreme changes you'll need to make a citation to prove.

If you don't feel offended by drastic character changes that is fine but it would also seem that you don't much care about the comics if you'll just read anything no matter the changes. I can't get behind that. If there is no consistency at all then I have no interest in reading it. It's like the midichlorians in Star Wars, the original three movies never mentioned them and now we're supposed to accept them as canon.

I've always been against extreme changes, so don't throw me under the bus with people who were just against Lady Thor. I personally never liked Damian Wayne or Jason Todd, I was with the group that voted for Todd to die (if you don't understand that, look up the voting contest around Death in the Family).

Extreme change is always met with some displeasure and for good reason.

@thunderingthorfan: Agreed, plus, I've seen non-white kids identify with Spider-man. I worked in a store and it sold Halloween costumes, an Indian boy and his family came in and he wanted to be Spider-man so bad for Halloween so they got him the costume.

I full heartily agree with you. Daredevil and Wonder Woman were born out of creativity and was loved for it. But since the MCU has gotten bigger in populairty, it attracted fans who don't even read the comics, or actually buy them. They are gonna complain, and like it or not, Marvel's a business. I could cry fowl on the whole Thor issue, but I doubt they're gonna listen to me. Even if I boycott the book, there are gonna be those who buy it. Let's not forget that Carol Danvers was created during the feminist movement in the 70s, yet she has gotten a fanbase over the years. What is in need is more competent, and creative writers. Expand on the more obscure characters and teams. If you wanna create new ones, create them out of the best of your creativity.

And here I was hoping someone might want to discuss this book and how fun it is...sigh

Can't you guys do this stuff on another thread or something. You're outrage over these things has little to do with the core concepts of this book.

Came here to read comments about the preview, saw people bitching about stuff again, not disappointed.

I know right people these days.

It matters my friend because the issue here is far greater than comics characters. This is about the violent state and media ideological coercion foisted upon the public through RELENTLESS and SAVAGE PROPAGANDA and its continued destruction of integrity throughout society.

This is what doc-holiday is complaining about and he's completely right.

Uhhhh, why is Slade on a double date with someone other than his wife? Lady Thor's face on the cover is priceless. This is such a fun book.

How many goats do I have to sacrifice for Sony and Fox to make a movie with these two?

@mollydanger2210: how about you guys go stand on your soap boxes in another thread? Hmmm maybe you could call it the " I'm not having fun" thread

Now as I was saying. This book is too legit 2 quit. Joe Kelly kills it. And it's been great seeing how mcguiness's depiction of dp has evolved since the last time he worked on dp. I kinda hope they touch on wade's big moment in all new all different avengers this week. I thought he jumped in and stole the show. Maybe that's how he got the date!

@doc-holiday: and I guess that's where we differ. I enjoy the characters and stories changing things up. Especially if we want new stories. It would be increasingly difficult to write something fresh about a character who has existed for over 20+ years, without changing something. Otherwise comics would just end up like Magic Treehouse Books. They'd find their limit and stop being produced.

I don't know how many goats you would have to sacrifice but like a billion dollars for each Fox, Sony and Marvel Studios should be enough to get them together.

I have not yet had a chance to read this book yet and these few pages make me really upset about that. I had a feeling this team-up would be fine, but this premise is great. Peter/Spidey is trying to give Deadpool a chance and save him while Deadpool is hired to kill Peter, whom he thinks is Spidey's boss.

You're correct (and that is not sarcasm, I am absolutely serious) but unfortunately drastic changes also come with their own issues. Minor changes over time are often better so new and older readers can get used to them. Usually introducing new characters is easier than making extreme changes.

I think that Marvel and DC are considerably more caught up with pleasing people now than maintaining a long and loyal readership. I could be wrong but it certainly feels that way as they respond to those complaining about various character types not existing (despite the fact those same character types do, they are simply not popular or not well promoted; female characters, non-white characters, etc.).

@rob collier: Creativity is often a far better catalyst for change than a demand for it or money.

It's why I love Mark Millar's work, so much of it is born from pure creativity; Superior, Super Crooks, Kick Ass and his newest Empress.

i love this series. it's funny how people on here thought that marvel was replacing peter. he is in more books than anyone else. this is great. the only thing i don't like...and this is a very very very small dislike/gripe...is that when these 2 team up, spiderman is always the straight man. he rarely gets to wise crack. i have bought the first 3 and can't wait for the next one.

@doc-holiday: I totally agree with you. Instead of placing a female in place of a male character, they should embrace a female character. What they're doing actually shows that they lack enough confidence in female characters to take risks with them instead of playing off of the success of other characters. However, I also believe that DC has a habit of making similar bad decisions.

I don't disagree with your statement regarding DC and while they haven't gone to the extreme that Marvel has in regards to gender swapping they have made a series of mistakes and changes which have been poorly met.

The biggest thing for Marvel or DC to remember is these characters are old (most), very old and that means that generations have grown up with them and while they can't remain 100% the same, drastically changing them will not be good for those who've grown up with them.

This book is super fun. Can't wait to pick up the next issue.

@murderpool: The book is fun.

But i dont like Husband-pool. I like Daniel Way´s ,,Im going to put a grenade down your throat"-pool, who gave a flying f*ck about everything.

@doc-holiday: But that's the thing I'd say. From a business standpoint, it's a lot harder to make little known, or unpopular characters popular.

In a lot of those cases, the only way to get them noticed is to pair them up(or face them off) with someone popular. Otherwise they simply can't survive on their own without ALOT of time and effort. And even then said effort/time/money could be all for nothing if reader turnout is low. Which would therefore cost them in the long run. So like any business ofcourse they go for options more likely to succeed then fail.

And generally "pandering" or acknowledging other types of their readerbase, does succeed to some extent. Otherwise it wouldn't keep happening. Just like constant movie reboots. You have people who complain about them in great detail. And yet there are still TONS of people who love the reboots and just want to have a good time. Reboots and race-bending could be argued about having a good time. A good time for everyone is vastly different. But generally, you have tons of options that already exist that make a good time for you, and there are still many other good times coming out, so why fret when the good times are aimed at not you?

It's not about aiming that at me or anyone in particular it is about accurate character portrayal.

How would you feel if your favorite character was changed literally every time they made a new movie?

Also, I feel your statement regarding lesser known characters is wrong. Look at Hellcat and Squirrel Girl, they came back bigger and better than ever. I really love the new Squirrel Girl series and that is because instead of 'pairing them with or putting them against' anyone they simply modernized the existing character to fit current trends WITHOUT changing the overall character or personality. Hellcat and Squirrel Girl can appeal to a female audience but a younger one, high school and college age.

@doc-holiday: that argument for Johnny Storm is kinda flawed. Who else is Fox gonna promote that they haven't already? But I suppose I can buy the one about Lady Thor (although using Kamala as an example doesn't make much sense either because Marvel IS promoting her).

Well, how about instead of changing the race of a character they take some of the great black X-men and give them their own movies? Deadpool and Wolverine are amazing and I think a good Storm movie would work out really well. Storm is a favorite for a lot of people and makes a great role model for young women (plus she is one of the most powerful X-men).

The Blade movie came out 2 years before Spider-man and did pretty well, Blade was a Spider-man character and yet his film came out before. There are plenty of great black super heroes to promote.

My issue with Lady Thor is a lack of promotion for existing female heroes and rather a replacement of gender of one hero. Ms. Marvel is wonderful and the modernization of Squirrel Girl worked out great so rather than make a female Thor, why not include a new Asgardian? Or build on an existing female character?

We know that this can't last forever so people who get attached to Lady Thor will no doubt be saddened when she disappears when Marvel (as they and DC will inevitably do) resets the universe.

@doc-holiday:

1.Blade was never a Spider-Man character. He just got his powers from Morbius. He was around for years before. He also is owned by Marvel Studios so he really has nothing to do with Fox. His movies iirc didn't do that well after the first one.

Storm could work but it's a big gamble on whether or not the movie would actually be good or not. Deadpool is much easier and Wolvies first movie flopped hard. You also have to remember that a Deadpool movie or Wolvy movie is not the same as a Storm film. Being the most powerful doesn't alway mean "translates best to film".

3. You bring up a valid point, I think Marvel is trying that as well, I can't say for sure.

Well Blade was featured in Spider-man and he was able to stand on his own and clearly made enough money to warrant 2 sequels to follow the original.

Fox has the rights to the X-men and Fantastic Four which includes all characters within their universe. There are numerous characters to choose from my point with Blade was its success (limited or otherwise) as a character who didn't have his own run to start off with and yet came out before a major film like Spider-man and did moderately well which shows a potential for another good film about a possibly lesser known character.

I am not sure Storm is that big of a gamble. I think everyone said the same thing before Ant-man and other films and many turned out well (to varying degrees of success but all successful), in fact, there are fewer bad super hero movies than good. Usually the biggest issue for super hero movies is the 'too many cooks spoil the broth' metaphor. Producers, directors and others involved who have a vision that all clash (take Spider-man 3 for example). I think with a team more dedicated like the Deadpool one (which also may not have even been green-lit if not for that 'leaked' footage so lets not pretend it was a slam dunk from the get-go) that Storm or other characters could do really well.

@doc-holiday:

1. ok, I get what you're saying now in regards to Blade

2.I still have my doubts regarding Storm speciffically but I don't doubt that people would want to see it but you bring up a good point regarding Ant-Man.

Ultimately we'll never know about Storm or any other X-men until such a film is made. Personally I've always liked Storm and think that given the right team she could have an amazing film.

Even with my criticisms of films set to come out (Suicide Squad, Dr. Strange, etc.), I don't know how they'll be until they come out, which is often why I will see a film to get my own opinion and see how accurate my original criticism of it was.

Anyhow, this has been a good discussion and I am glad I had it.

@doc-holiday: likewise : )

Is anyone here going to actually talk about this comic? It's freaking green. I can't wait to get this one. The last one really grew Pete and deadpool's relationship. I can't wait to see spiderman and Jane interact.

Is anyone here going to actually talk about this comic? It's freaking green. I can't wait to get this one. The last one really grew Pete and deadpool's relationship. I can't wait to see spiderman and Jane interact.

lol. No matter how much one rants, they just don't give a damn about the complaints. They have the right to do what they want. Readers could either like 'em or hate 'em. Bottom line is we can never dictate what Marvel wants to do. Pleasing everybody would be stupid. Cause you'd be reading "Twilight" rather than Marvel comics.

This site is suppose to help readers pick what they want to read. The previews are more than enough for anyone to help you decide. Seriously, if the reviews are bad or you don't like the changes, the writers, etc,.. Don't buy it.

I have always look pass that. As much as I hate these stupid media ideology. Whenever I read a comic, I just read it as a comic. I take comics as comics. Stripe off of the issues, ideology and stupidity of society nowadays.

@the_titan_lord: Lol actually we can money speaks I haven't bought a Thor comic since Jane Thor appeared but Aaron says the real Thor will be back with his own comic again and a original Thor writer doing the story so obviously Marvel is listening which is probably why Steve Rogers back to his old self and young again a lot of fans of these characters are not buying the comics so now Marvel trying to please both but seems like they are going to give Thor ultimate Mjolnir which is another bs move so I will still not purchase a Thor comic till he is returned to his original self and Mjolnir hell even DC is bringing the "classic" Superman(pre 52) back and making him the main superman again so sure they don't have to listening to the complaints but we the buyers don't have to buy it either just because they try to force it just ask Microsoft with the xbox1 launch.

Good for you.

Considering how the book is selling over 50,000 copies per month, I doubt they remove Jane from the Thor title. As you said, money speaks, and Thor is pulling in large sales currently. If Odinson is back, it would be independent of any boycott effort.