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Does Batman always win? Batman vs Captain America

Steve Rogers versus Bruce Wayne is without question one of the most heated debates in comic book history. Does Batman "always win" or is the super soldier going to take him down? We provide our thoughts!


Place your bets.
Place your bets.

"Batman always wins. Why? Because... he's Batman."

That's an on-going joke surrounding the character, but I thought I'd take it a step further and have some fun with the statement. "Does Batman always win?" will hopefully be a monthly feature where I'll pit Batman in close match ups, weigh the advantages of each combatant, and then declare a winner (just like I did with Movie Dredd vs Movie Batman). The battle will always be standard comic book versions with their standard gear and it will take place in a neutral setting: a traditional and unpopulated city block at night. This will be a random encounter with ample starting distance. That means there's no prep!

Don't make him
Don't make him "one punch!" you, Hal.

Why Batman? Batman is simply a human at the end of the day, and that makes his accomplishments that much more impressive. Not only is Batman one of the most well known comic book characters around, he also demands your respect as a combatant. Even if you don't like him, you still have to admire the fact that he's extraordinary skilled, brilliant and has a huge array of equipment packed away in that belt of his. He can hang with some of the best and most dangerous street level characters around, and since that's the level I'm the most knowledgeable on, I'm excited for many of the matches I have in store for all of you (I'm welcome to suggestions, too!).

I present to you my first "Does Batman always win?" segment: Batman vs Captain America. Both are accomplished tacticians and highly talented combatants, but they each bring drastically different advantages to the table. They've faced before in non-canon crossovers and both times they were pretty evenly matched. Do I agree with that or do I think one should clearly be the victor? Read on to find out!

Captain America's advantages

There's no bat spray to counter a shield to the face.
There's no bat spray to counter a shield to the face.

Bruce Wayne has reached peak human condition with years of dedicated training. He was chopping through bricks and kicking down trees at just 25 years-old, but despite being beyond what any real-life human is capable of, Captain America is still his physical superior. Thanks to the Super-Soldier Serum, Captain America is technically defined as enhanced human and this provides him with strength, speed and endurance above The Dark Knight.

Captain America has been seen bench pressing 1,100 lbs and is capable of running a mile in just over a minute. While top running speed isn't the most critical factor, it still plays a role and proves that given the opportunity, Steve Rogers can absolutely keep pace with Bruce Wayne. In fights, strength is always a big factor. It means strikes can be more powerful and he can overcome in the event of a grapple. And with endurance, it obviously means the Super-Soldier won't fatigue as quickly as Wayne. That's not to discredit Wayne in that regard, of course. The events of 'Knightfall' prove Wayne can push his body to absurd limits, but Captain America simply has the unfair advantage of the SSS.

Agility that shouldn't be underestimated.
Agility that shouldn't be underestimated.

On top of being physically superior, Captain America has the perfect offensive/defensive weapon at his disposal: a virtually unbreakable shield. In Cap's hands, the shield is a colorful weapon worthy of your fear. Not only can he wield it incredibly well when it comes to striking his opponent in close combat, but he can also throw it with a ridiculous amount of accuracy (he's managed to turn off a lighter on the floor), has the technical mind needed to calculate amazing ricochet shots, and can use it to block a majority of incoming attacks. To me, ricochet shots are quite a wildcard worth taking into account here. The disc to the back of the head or torso is sure to throw someone (yes, even Batman) off their game.

Additionally, Captain America has made the claim that he can simply "see faster" than regular humans, and that grants him the reflexes to use the weapon with incredibly efficiency when it comes to defensive measures. That's going to be key here considering Batman has the edge in hand-to-hand capabilities.

Naturally, Captain America has some experience facing characters similar to Batman. He's had a few fights with Daredevil (though most have had significant factors) and had no real trouble holding his own (in all of them except for the recent one in Waid's DD), taken down Taskmaster, has proven to be roughly equal to Black Panther, and had a close encounter with classic Iron Fist.

Batman's advantages

Can skill overcome physicals?
Can skill overcome physicals?

While Captain America has Batman outclassed physically and has one incredibly resourceful weapon, Bruce Wayne has some praise worthy advantages of his own. First and foremost, Batman is more skilled than Captain America. Rogers is very talented in his own right (once claimed to be adept at every style), but Batman has a level of skill that few street levelers can compete with. Somehow through years of extensive studying, his Bat brain has "perfected every known fighting discipline." (JLA: The Ultimate Guide to the Justice League of America). Not only is he more talented than Rogers in unarmed combat,but Dick Grayson has also made the claim that Wayne knows every single pressure point -- and we've seen Wayne disable foes with nerve strikes quite a few times before.

Shoryuken!
Shoryuken!

But, this isn't unarmed combat. Captain America has his shield and luckily for Batman, he has a wealthy amount of weaponry at his disposal. While Captain America has just one weapon (albeit an impressive one), The Dark Knight has variety on his side. America's super soldier has no counter for a cryo pellet, various gases, smoke pellets, light explosives and electric attacks. That's barely even scratching the surface of what Wayne can implement in combat, too.

Smoke pellets can further compliment Batman's already beyond impressive stealth capabilities as well. Batman has flawlessly vanished while he was right in the target's line of sight. To me, this totally defies logic, but it's a consistent feat in his career and therefore something he can do on a regular basis. If needed, Batman can use this environment to his advantage with proper use of his smoke pellets and grappling line. From there, it's a game of ninja cat versus steroids cat. Batman can regain the edge thanks to his stealth, but at the same rate, there's no guarantee the strike will be a critical game changer.

Batman has an extensive history of fighting characters physically superior to him. Deathstroke would be a prime example of this (since he's also enhanced). While Deathstroke has made short work of him, it's worth noting that Batman didn't implement his gear and Slade Wilson is, as he bluntly stated himself, more vicious and trained to kill. While Rogers has no problem crossing that line when required, it's not in character for him to be that aggressive in this encounter. Then there's Bane, a man of course less powerful than Captain America (off venom since that's how a majority of their fights went down), but still Batman has been able to overcome him thanks to his greater talent in martial arts.

The Verdict

Flip a coin.
Flip a coin.

Of course these characters fluctuate from writer to writer, but I believe that written to their full potential and thrown into this scenario, the outcome would be a stalemate. To think either has a blatant advantage to make the outcome obvious is simply false to me. Both bring valuable aspects to the table and it's completely logical to see either taking it. While Batman has the edge in skill, it by no means renders him untouchable to Cap, and one clean connect from his enhanced level strength or shield (be it a strike or ricochet) holds the potential to turn the tide. Meanwhile, Batman's stealth abilities and massive array of equipment that Cap has no immediate counter for are equally big wild cards to me. I legitimately believe it's entirely conceivable for either to be the victor in this case.

G-Man's thoughts

"I would say, even though Batman is supposed to win, you could expect Cap to win. ESPECIALLY because of The New 52. It just seems Cap has way more experience taking on a large variety of threats with many on a galactic level.

Batman, we have to assume, hasn't dealt with too many foes outside of his rogues gallery. Yes he fought Darkseid in JUSTICE LEAGUE 1-6 but what other huge threats did he face? Has he lead the JL on many missions or other teams? Cap has more experience and is prepared to go up against foes like Ultron, Kang the Conqueror and even Galactus. There's always the infamous "prep" time but unless Batman defeats him quickly, Cap would have the skills to keep dodging his attacks and the stamina to outlast Batman."

Who do you think would win and why? Sound off!
Who do you think would win and why? Sound off!

Gregg Katzman is a freelance writer for Comic Vine and IGN Entertainment. If this feature does well, expect another one next month! Be sure to follow him on Twitter for early spoilers every week about Rants & Raves and Best Battles!

760 Comments

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AlfieBoheme

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Edited By AlfieBoheme

This one's without prep time, but I think with prep time, Batman could beat pretty much everyone. In Batman and Robin All Stars (eurgh, don't read it) he fought GL by painting everything in the room yellow, and then painting himself yellow. He's just that crazy, he'd find a way.

Only a few exceptions imo, like Deadpool, who matches Bruce on the craziness, but is practically invincible and has almost equal fighting skills.

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CosmicKnowledge

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Edited By CosmicKnowledge

I love what G Man had to say.. its very hard for me to say but when it comes down to it Captain America would win. Im more into reading batman comics and im more in love with batman than captain but i still think his strength would overcome batmans but non the less it still would make for a wonderfull fight!!!:)

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SirMethos

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Edited By SirMethos

Batman vs. Captain America is, as several people have already commented, one of the "eternal debates". Primarily because 1. die-hard fans on both sides, refuse to concede any points. and 2. because the respective companies in the few crossovers where the two meet, just like the fans, seem to refuse to acknowledge any superiority of any kind, on either side.

That said, looking at the fight objectively(or as objectively as possible), I can't help but give it to Cap.

Against the only opponent Batman has been up against, that is Cap's all-round physical(and mental) equal in terms of 'stats', aka. Deathstroke, Batman was decimated. Even though Deathstroke himself, admitted that Batman is more skilled. The skill superiority, simply isn't enough to bridge the gap in sheer 'stats', and mindset.

So, what are those 'stats' that Cap has, that makes him that superior?

1. As the article noted, Cap can "see faster" than normal humans. But that doesn't really tell us much. An actual statement from Cap on that specific point, is that he can "dodge bullets, because he can see faster than they move". Which suddenly reveals a huge gap. Batman is extremely impressive, definitely above any 'real world' human, but that gap, means that any attack that Cap actually sees, will be effectively moving in 'slow-motion', because while Batman is impressive, he isn't capable of moving(or throwing) anything to the point where it(or he) moves faster(or as fast) than a bullet.

2. Stamina. It has been demonstrated several times, that the SSS prevents fatigue toxins from building in Cap's body, which puts his stamina/staying power, at far beyond that of a normal human, even one as exceptional as Batman. Which means, that even if they were otherwise completely even, Cap would win, simply by being able to last longer.

3. A final factor that people tend to forget, is that the SSS didn't just enhance Steve Rogers physically to 'peak human capability'. It also, equally enhanced his mind, putting all of his mental faculties at 'peak human capability'(something we all know, translated to borderline superhuman, in some cases actually crossing the line).

The mental enhancement is something that, in Deathstroke, is hailed as his greatest asset. And yet with Captain America, it is completely ignored, overlooked, and forgotten in most cases.

I could go on, to list various other 'stats' where Cap is superior to a greater or lesser degree, but the above three, are the ones that, for me, closes the deal, and puts the fight in Cap's favor(assuming it's a straight up fight, with no other factors).

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huser

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Edited By huser

Is this a Comic Book Rumbles fight? Khazan rules and all?

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huser

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Edited By huser

@pingclang said:

With Cap, don't give the Super Soldier Serum too much credit. All it gave Cap is the best of everything a human can get. A great memory, amazing reflexes, stamina and so forth. He isn't super powered, just the best a human can get, which is exactly what Batman has, only he did this through training. I don't consider new 52 Bats so I think this would turn into an all day fight with both getting tired, mentally and physically. Bats has experience but Cap has more. Cap has intelligence but Bats has more. Cap has skill, Bats knows the cloak and dagger skills, I see it coming down to pure luck. Pretty much a draw the whole fight ending in someone getting a lucky stroke. Victor undetermined.

Actually Captain America's stamina is canonically superhuman. His body processes metabolic waste beyond what any human can. It's not run around the world quality only that even against someone like Batman Rogers has a distinct advantage in any longterm brawl.

Also, I like that you acknowledge CA's skill. Even in the real world WWII, the US military had access to high level MA trainers. So maybe he hadn't traveled to Namba Parbat or trained with Shiva, but Rogers ain't a slouch.

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SUNMAN

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Edited By SUNMAN

going by stats I'd say Cap, but when you factor in Batman's popularity and his regular feats it wouldn't surprise me if he wins

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DChero

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Edited By DChero

Wait Im confused. Cap is above the human peak or at the peak of a humans capability? I was convinced for the longest he was at the peak like batman is. Comicvine even says hes at the peak and not past. they make it clear hes at the peak. Wheres everyone getting this idea that he is at superhuman levels? i missed something.

I dont think people are putting batmans equipment into account in this battle. there just talking about cap being "stronger" or "faster". even if thats true who cares? batman is at the peak of a humans capability and is a brilliant fighter. Im 100% sure hes a better fighter than cap.

I hope i dont come off bias, i just don't see cap winning this fight.

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fivestarga

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Edited By fivestarga

Well, the fight is an interesting one. And I know I certainly respect Batman way more than Cap because he worked hard to achieve his skills and muscle. Captain America is ok, but his whole taking steroids to gain enhanced human condition really doesn't set well with me. So, for me it's Batman.

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Killer_of_trolls

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Edited By Killer_of_trolls

I have repeated this comment for 7 other articles: "Deathstroke"

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Almighty1Azel

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Edited By Almighty1Azel
@SirMethos said:

Batman vs. Captain America is, as several people have already commented, one of the "eternal debates". Primarily because 1. die-hard fans on both sides, refuse to concede any points. and 2. because the respective companies in the few crossovers where the two meet, just like the fans, seem to refuse to acknowledge any superiority of any kind, on either side.

That said, looking at the fight objectively(or as objectively as possible), I can't help but give it to Cap.

Against the only opponent Batman has been up against, that is Cap's all-round physical(and mental) equal in terms of 'stats', aka. Deathstroke, Batman was decimated. Even though Deathstroke himself, admitted that Batman is more skilled. The skill superiority, simply isn't enough to bridge the gap in sheer 'stats', and mindset.

So, what are those 'stats' that Cap has, that makes him that superior?

1. As the article noted, Cap can "see faster" than normal humans. But that doesn't really tell us much. An actual statement from Cap on that specific point, is that he can "dodge bullets, because he can see faster than they move". Which suddenly reveals a huge gap. Batman is extremely impressive, definitely above any 'real world' human, but that gap, means that any attack that Cap actually sees, will be effectively moving in 'slow-motion', because while Batman is impressive, he isn't capable of moving(or throwing) anything to the point where it(or he) moves faster(or as fast) than a bullet.

2. Stamina. It has been demonstrated several times, that the SSS prevents fatigue toxins from building in Cap's body, which puts his stamina/staying power, at far beyond that of a normal human, even one as exceptional as Batman. Which means, that even if they were otherwise completely even, Cap would win, simply by being able to last longer.

3. A final factor that people tend to forget, is that the SSS didn't just enhance Steve Rogers physically to 'peak human capability'. It also, equally enhanced his mind, putting all of his mental faculties at 'peak human capability'(something we all know, translated to borderline superhuman, in some cases actually crossing the line).

The mental enhancement is something that, in Deathstroke, is hailed as his greatest asset. And yet with Captain America, it is completely ignored, overlooked, and forgotten in most cases.

I could go on, to list various other 'stats' where Cap is superior to a greater or lesser degree, but the above three, are the ones that, for me, closes the deal, and puts the fight in Cap's favor(assuming it's a straight up fight, with no other factors).

said everything that needed to be said......    not saying batman cant win, but  Captain America has a better chance at winning...  
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irmensul

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Edited By irmensul

Batman has fought more cosmic level bad guys than G-man gives him credit for..but this article is well written..I say its totally even..they have the distinction of being totally even..& that includes black panther hes also equal to them..I dont think theres any clear winner here.

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RoboShark

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Edited By RoboShark

I'm a bat kid I can't answer this with no bias.

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schmidty207

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Edited By schmidty207

Batman would lose...the first fight. Never the second. Ever. 
Not just against Cap, but every Marvel character...and DC character...and Valiant character...

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OmegaRed86

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Edited By OmegaRed86

Batman fanboys and PIS > Logic. It will be this way until the end of time.

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Sideslash

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Edited By Sideslash

Like you said, there's no bat spray to counter a shield to the face.

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Paracelsus

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Edited By Paracelsus

I TOO think that Cap would triumph over Batman or at least the battle would be a stalemate( as we saw in the lcassic "Batman/Captain America " team up), they are simply too evenly matched!

Terry

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StooshD

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Edited By StooshD

It would be one of the most awesome h2h brawls of all time (and near the end im pretty sure it would descend into a brawl, both guys struggling to stay on their feet) However for me its got to go to the Cap. He really is superior thanks to the serum and one should never underestimate the sheer awesomeness of the shield and the caps ability to wield it. A close one but its got to go to the cap.

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davidearlhutchinson

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It's funny how people forget that inside of Batman's mind especially during fight he is already prepping to take down his opponent because in his mind he is already working out 100 different scenarios to take down whoever he is fighting. I just find it funny how everyone thinks Batman already has his whole plan set. No he comes up with these plans as he is fighting while using the gadgets in his utility belt to implement his plan. So no prep time really does not mean anything because Batman is always prepping.

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tg1982

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Edited By tg1982

I've always considered Batman and Captain America to be equal in hand to hand combat. Batman does have an advantage in knowledge, mastering 127 martial arts, but Captain America's superior phsyical stats evens it out. It's not as if Captain America has no knowledge or isn't a master in any martial arts, he is adept at every form of H2H known to man.

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Mildor

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Edited By Mildor

It seems that your pointing each other at their base level, but its important to set first which is Batman official base level? I think before delimit or answer this is obligatory to admit first that the advantage of Batman is scaling. He can upgrade his suit to a battlesuit or exoskeleton or armor if you think thats what is missing to upgrade his strenght? The famous prep time that some characters have in both brands but just few characters dignify and can really carry on properly and effectively (such as Iron Man, Dr Doom, Luthor, Darkseid, Joker, Batman Inc..).

Caps fight and offer mainly what you see from him,ok he can give a plus his the spirit of the avengers the will and loyalty to a team to a country to what is right, but Batman simply just go beyond from all of this. With or without his well earned prep time his godly will, keenness and intellectis is always there. He is the indomitable spirit of humankind and self-belief along with sacrifice & limits not because he cant avoid it but because is correct.

If this cant be considered on behalf of Batman the same should be said from the likes of Dr Doom and Iron man then...

No one mess with Batman is a phrase that many people came to know even those who are not fans tend to realize it, I think is a well earned merit for those who conceive and have been part of the 70+ years of the legacy of Batman. I havent met no one who doesnt saw or heard or know something of batman old and youngs, rich and poor, from the monks in the tibet to merchants in the India and the strangest thing they dont related to the US is just a universal concept ispart of the general culture

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VonBarras

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Edited By VonBarras

I like batman better but Cap could brobably beat him.

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yotaman

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Edited By yotaman

Batman confessed already to CAP that he (cap) will win against him.

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CF12793

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Edited By CF12793

So I have a question about this topic that I've been wondering about for some time. Is Captain America on the same level as Batman fighting wise? I mean, Batman has been established to know every fighting style/martial art on Earth, and all of the styles he knows has been compiled and listed several times. Cap, on the other hand, has not had every style he has learned listed, yet he's considered to be in Marvel's top tier martial artists. Seems to me that he isn't a master of every style he knows, but he can certainly hold his own in any fighting style he has learned. I don't think he's taken as much time as Bats to learn and master EVERY form of fighting, but because he's been in so many fights with so many people, he has been able to learn and adapt most of the things he has seen.

What I'm trying to ask is, what EXACT styles does Cap know? Anyone have a scan of him listing all of them?

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FullmetalChobit

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Edited By FullmetalChobit

CAP FOR THE WIN!!

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entropy_aegis

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Edited By entropy_aegis

@yotaman said:

Batman confessed already to CAP that he (cap) will win against him.

No he didn't.

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AssertingValor

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Edited By AssertingValor

Batman needs to be enhanced somehow. He has gone 70 years as a human and not come up with his own SSS? This seems odd to me. With all the enhanced fighters out there aka Deathstroke, Midnighter, Grifter... Batman needs to be enhanced so he can protect his usefulness to the JLA.

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yotaman

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Edited By yotaman

@entropy_aegis:

it was in a crossover. JLA Avengers chapter 2.

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entropy_aegis

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Edited By entropy_aegis

@yotaman said:

@entropy_aegis:

it was in a crossover. JLA Avengers chapter 2.

I know and nowhere did Batman say that he would lose to Cap,he only stated that Cap could conceivably win just like I could conceivably become a billionaire.

And also Batman was standing on top on Cap's shield,Rogers was the one likely to lose had that fight continued.

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yotaman

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Edited By yotaman

@entropy_aegis: yeah, i checked and saw that you are right. but in my opinion, in the dc and marvel world, physical abilities never been featured evenly, like you might see in the manga world (the good one, which is like 10% of it).

Cap physical abilities should Surpass Batman tech and martial arts.

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Alexander505

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Edited By Alexander505

@VonBarras said:

I like batman better but Cap could brobably beat him.

Yep...probably..

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Lord_Sidious

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Edited By Lord_Sidious

Batman. No question.

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Charetter115

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Edited By Charetter115

Batman's stealth and above-human reflexes are the deciding factor here.

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Funkypanda123

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Edited By Funkypanda123

take away batman's gadgets vehicles , sure he has Martial arts but, take away caps serum and shield hes still a solider and with Bruce being rich well hes nothing without hes money doesn't have the right stuff to build gadgets (and cap has more xp since he was in ww2) cap wins

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Funkypanda123

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Edited By Funkypanda123

cap took down galactus

He defeat thanos with the infinity ganulet (with help from the avengers)

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HolySerpent

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Edited By HolySerpent

Batman easily

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iHailCarlo

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Edited By iHailCarlo

Batman wins, I like Cap but I just think Batman is far more intelligent and that is always underestimated in these types of battles.

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difficlus

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Edited By difficlus

I could go either way really, leaning more on pure due to superior armaments not that the shield is a poor weapon but batman has more versatility and tricks up his sleeve which could make it quite a challenge for even the extremely skilled and powerful captain america. However new 52 batman hasn't lived up to his past method of relying on his gear for h2h combat(ala court of owls). In a scenario where Bruce doesn't make adequate use of it (and i mean full use of combat weapons) he will likely lose to captain america IMHO. Still a close fight.

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SHIELD_agent_Obrian

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all the idiots that say batman, are clueless batman fans. which i am too. i love both of them. you cant ignore captain america's skill, he is trained in countless martial arts, its not ninja cat vs steroid cat, its ninja cat vs steriod slightly less of a ninja cat. even if bats is more skilled in hand to hand combat, cap can see every move coming. hell, he can dodge everything his shield cant block.

another thing, bane has hardly any martial art skill. you cant compare batman's fights with bane to one with cap. but if you do, than realize that bane got his start by kicking the shit out of batman and breaking his back. people choose batman because he is mainstream, i do have a subscription to the new 52 batman books, but that doesnt change the fact that cap is the superior.

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SHIELD_agent_Obrian

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did you even read the article? cap is more agile, and he can SEE FASTER THAN AVERAGE HUMANS, there is even a picture of cap dodging batmans strike. he can dodge and see everything his shield cant block. and bane has no martial arts skill, cap has only slightly less than batman. and bane is SLOW! amd doesnt have caps reflexes. cap is faster than batman. im an expert on both characters, because i love them both. but we are talking about placing batman against a man who sucker punched adolf hitler in the face!! this man symbolizes all that makes america great. batman is not prepared for taking on someone with equivelent skill and expirience, with faster reflexes and strength.

p.s. i like your avatar, im a naruto fan too. you got a playstation network account?

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Mr_Wayne69

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I'm obviously a fan of Batman. That being said, logically speaking, either one of these phenomenal characters could acquire the victory over the other.

If we're talking New 52 Batman vs Cap then Cap wins because New 52 Batman lacks the experience necessary to take down Cap properly. It certainly wouldn't be easy because even before Bruce trekked the globe to find the means to strike fear into corruption, he was always brilliant. It takes a child at a level of brilliance never/rarely seen to want to become something of a Batman the way Bruce Wayne did. That being said, if New 52 Batman had a rematch with Cap, Cap would lose. There lies the skill of Batman. Never fight him twice. Better kill him if you win the first time you meet.

If we're ignoring continuity and reboots and just taking the characters at their prime, then it could go either way.

I'd like to take a moment to debunk, if you will, a few of the misconceptions about both characters:

Batman has only lost to one street-level non-meta/enhanced character (that I know of) in his early crime fighting career and that would be Bronze Tiger. He later had a rematch and fought him to a draw. That being said, over the years Batman has become the character who represents human beings as the one (dark) beacon of hope against the possible threat of super-powered beings. He's trained himself to stand among gods, aliens, space cops, and amazons. That being said, he's not supposed to lose to anyonewithout powers/enhanced abilities. That's his line of thinking and that's how the writers choose to portray him.

I understand that's not popular to the (few) people that don't like the character, but it is what it is.

Captain America represents the American dream of a man sacrificing himself for experimentation so his country can manufacture an answer to an evil threat. America loves the quick fix, the fast food life, the instant gratification, the info at our fingertips/iPhone/Google social network life. We've always been the country trying to stay ahead of technology or at least on par with it. It would make sense that an instant top notch human be "born" out of science and chosen to fight our wars. Sounds like a jab almost but I assure you, it isn't... because he also represents fighting spirit and will to win.

The thing about Cap that people always get wrong is his level of experience over Batman's. Cap fought in WWII and was cryogenically frozen then thawed out in modern times. If you add up his time during that war and his modern adventures you'd probably come up with the same amount of years that Batman had been crime fighting (pre New-52 at his prime). Even if Cap does have more time during modern adventures it's still not enough to consider it an advantage. Cap does not have more experience.

His shield isn't exactly an advantage. It sure isn't a disadvantage, however Batman could make it one. It's material is made of the best Marvel has to offer (vibramium and adamantium). Once Batman sees it's indestructible (something Bats would probably assume because why would someone walk around with a big @$$ shield if it wasn't hard to break) he'd take it out of the equation quick.

Another thing that people misunderstand: Caps war experience somehow being an advantage over Bats. Just because a government leader didn't declare Batman's battles and wars on crime (and intergalactic enemies I might add) as a declaration of war, doesn't mean they weren't "wars". I hope that can be understood.

This battle isn't like the Spartan vs samurai battle from that TV show Deadliest Warriors like someone mentioned earlier. Batman would be the equivalent to both of those warrior classes. No, this is a battle between two very different forms of human achievement:

  • One had the desire to fight for his country when he didn't have the physical or mental capacity to do so. What he lacked in physical prowess or brains, he made up for with heart. The experiment was a success that pushed his country to victory and edged them on in the arms race during war.
  • The other was a brilliant and gifted boy that had the natural ability to be anything or anyone in the world if he focused his attention to it. He could have been a world class athlete if he liked sports, a surgeon like his father, an engineer to further his family name and business foundation, an astronaut, a physicist, a gifted and desired socialite... instead, one faithful and tragic night caused a shift and a focus never seen in the young boys mind. He would become a crime fighter. With that he became either the best or among the elite in various amounts of human disciplines (and later on alien and mystical arts became something of knowledge for him). The boy traveled the globe, the boy became a young man, the man became one of the most brilliant and deadly to ever walk the planet through natural talent, natural brilliance, and world class training.

By design Batman is what Steve Rogers wishes he was before the experiment. Captain America is what Bruce Wayne could be if he sat down one afternoon and read notes from Ray Palmer, Micheal Holt, and the Miraclo formula that lead to its variant formula/drug called Venom, and created a 'super-soldier-serum' of his own (a bit of sarcasm, excuse me).

Interesting how Batman could actually be Cap if he truly desired, and Captain America had no shot at all at being a warrior like Batman without some experimental assistance...

People complain that Batman fanboys are 'crazed loons' but it's because some of the loons understand the advantage of Batman's brilliance. The man could be Captain America if that's what he chose to achieve. His brain is arguable to that of Reed Richards, Tony Stark, etc. so why would it be unbelievable that he could defeat Captain America? It could logically happen.

anyway, moving along...

...But Cap doesn't need to be Batman nor does Batman desire to use shortcuts to be like a Cap. It's apart of Batman's obsession, desire, and (unmatched) will to win. It's what makes them work as characters. So while myself and many others can talk all day about a 'Super Soldier serum victory', I'd rather tell you about why I don't believe Batman losing is something simple and why him winning is certainly just as plausible as Cap winning.

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FatihBATMAN

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Edited By FatihBATMAN

that sir is the best post this month!

*clap* *clap*

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Mr_Wayne69

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@FatihBATMAN: Thanx for reading! I was hoping my "rant" wouldn't be over looked. Those were some very unbiased words that probably needed to be said about the question at hand and the characterization and representation of both characters.

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FatihBATMAN

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Edited By FatihBATMAN

not at all! you had me at "I'm obviously a fan of Batman." hehe

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Mr_Wayne69

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@FatihBATMAN: Haha! Yeah I had to state the truth because we Bat-fans get a beat down online I've noticed...

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Alexander505

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If we're talking New 52 Batman vs Cap then Cap wins because New 52 Batman lacks the experience necessary to take down Cap properly

??? Dude, New 52 Batman is the same guy -.- is just a reboot.

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adamrolls

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With no prep? Captain wins... Here's why. 

  • Captain edges out Batman in every way physically. That's strength, speed, agility, and stamina. That means he can out lift batman...out run batman.. out maneuver batman...and out last batman
  • Captain, like batman, is one of the top authorities (if not the authority) on hand to hand combat in the marvel universe.
"But Batman is master of a  zillion million gbillion fighting styles!!!!!" 
Credit to Bruce for leaving no stone unturned the areas of punching and kicking but in learning all those styles how muchredundancy and inefficiencydid he run into? There definitely must have been some  Dimishing returns when it comes to having  filled your cup that much(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diminishing_returns).
To this point I would say that Captain America's mastery of boxing, kickboxing, wrestling, and Judo is atleast equal too if not superior to Bruce's knowledge of millions of martial arts. 
There is evidence in Real Life to this less is more perspective with MMA fighters. These guys focus only focus on what works and what you will find repeated over and over in these fighters repertoire is Wrestling, jiujitsu,boxing, and kickboxing.

  • While Captain is not god like when it comes to quick thinking like batman,  he certainly is no slouch. He has been on plenty of battle fields and is one most renowned marvel leaders. He is an expert in combat strategy, survival, and military strategy. He is not someone who will be set up, or tricked out of his advantages. Basically he is not killer croc
  • Finally without his Cheat Code prep powers ( I say that lovingly I'm a fan) Batman is very defeatable. Here is list of enhanced humans that have defeated batman.
-Deathstroke 
-Mutant Leader (dark knight returns- I know it was non cannon and he was older...but still :)
-Bane
-The KG Beast 
 
Cap is on the same level if not better these guys overall. Without prep work cap wins the exchange
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gettogaara

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Okay I'm a bit confused. I'm not an expert on Cap so I had to look him up and on the wiki it puts most of his abilities at peak human along with Batman. The only thing's that are listed as Superhuman for him is his stamina and agility. It states that the heaviest he's been seen lifting is 1200 while for Batman it's 1000. So yeah he's stronger but it's not a huge gap. They're both stated to be faster than Olympic gold medalists, the only thing that makes Captain America go from peak human to superhuman in that respect is that he can leap great distances. So if we're talking purely physical than yeah Captain America has a slight advantage. That's the thing though, when Batman knows he can't beat an opponent through raw strength(Grundy, Freeze, Killer Croc) he starts to rely on his brain and always finds a way to outsmart his foe. Captain America isn't stupid. In fact he's bright but Batman was close to 200 last time I checked.

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Alexander505

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Batman has beaten physically Killer Croc and Freeze, with no plans and gadgets;)

A recent example? New 52 Batman # 1, Bruce easily broken a leg Croc and knocks him out with one punch. In the same story, it also KO with one punch Freeze, breaking his helmet armor.

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JohnnyKrypton

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Edited By JohnnyKrypton

1. Batman has had MORE training and experience than Cap by FAR 2. Batman NEVER said Cap would beat him; folks have very poor reading comp skills around here. He said "It's conceivable you could beat me." ALL that means - and this is CLEARLY illustrated in the art- is "We're so evenly matched there's a chance you may win." Cap, if he's got a brain in his head, would be thinking the same thing.

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JohnnyKrypton

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Edited By JohnnyKrypton

Plus Batman also knows more forms of combat (and had the time to master them). Bats' Training: 10-15 years Cap's Training: 6 months