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Batman Doesn't Always Win and that's Okay

No matter how much you love the Dark Knight, it's okay to admit he isn't going to always beat his enemies. He won't hate you for it. We promise.

Bruce Wayne, a.k.a. Batman, is without question one of the most intelligent and skilled combatants on his planet. He may only be a human on a world that's full of super powered titans and deadly villains, but what's he's accomplished is well beyond what any ordinary human is capable of. He has a brilliant mind, has mastered over 120 fighting styles, and, of course, has the means and intelligence required to create some awesome equipment and vehicles. No matter how absurdly powerful a character may be, they should never underestimate the Dark Knight. That said, Bruce isn't infallible and he sure as hell isn't unbeatable. And you know what? That's a good thing.

No Caption Provided

Now, before you jump to conclusions about the above image, let me give you some much-needed context. The Caped Crusader and Deathstroke just had a brutal fight and, in the next issue, Slade mentions he'll be feeling the hero's hits for awhile and would hate to fight Batman without his enhanced strength. Still, the point is that no matter how skilled, driven, and clever Batman is, he won't always be in a scenario where the odds are in his favor. Does he have what it takes to put up a good effort, though? Absolutely. But being unbeatable would be a joke and who wants one of their favorite characters to be a walking punchline? Sure, that works for a lighthearted character like Squirrel Girl, but lighthearted doesn't really come to mind when you think of Batman, does it?

We all love seeing our favorite heroes overcome impossible odds, but how do you expect him to grow as a character if he's always able to shut down a villain's plans or find a way to get the edge in every single physical struggle? It's not about who's standing when the dust settles; it's about what that encounter meant for each character and the story potential it produces. Having Batman suffer a big loss and then seeing what kind of a toll it takes on him and how he'll fix what he did wrong has so much more potential for a compelling story than having him just always topple whatever is in his way. Embracing Wayne's skill, equipment and mastery of prep time is always cheerworthy, but that's because those moments aren't frequent and, when they are presented, the creative team often goes big. Being forced to legitimately question how he'll recover and adapt after a defeat is engaging and really has the potential to showoff his strengths far more than just proving yet again he knows how to disable someone with a pressure point or can take someone out with an electric attack. You know, this is assuming the whole story is written well and his defeat isn't blatantly downplaying him.

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We all want to our favorite characters to win ("my favorite character can beat up your favorite character!"), but there's a blatant difference between being a Batman fan and being a Batman fanboy/fangirl. The ability to objectively look at a character's strengths and weaknesses is important. Who wants to discuss these things with someone if it's clear there's just no reasoning with them? Batman's great and it takes a whole lot to get the better of him, but defeating him is doable and has happened countless times in his history. To think otherwise is just being... well, silly. For example, Bane purposely made sure Batman was emotionally and physically defeated before stepping in to finish the job himself. Wayne's loss there isn't downplaying him and it's most definitely not embarrassing for any Bat fans. If anything, it's showing just how far he'll go in an attempt to keep the city safe. Even after all he's endured, he still jumped at this physically superior foe and gave it his all. Also, it showed just how far Bane will go in an attempt to take control of Gotham and how much he had to do just to wear down its protector. It wasn't a fair fight by any measure, but it spoke volumes about Batman's determination, produced a great comeback for him, and made us realize Bane isn't someone we should take lightly.

"But they make him unbeatable and that's so lame!" In a world that has people shooting heat vision from their eyes, having a phenomenally well-trained, intelligent and resourceful hero isn't all that far-fetched. I mean, how many times has Punisher overcome seemingly impossible odds after he suffered an insane amount of damage? A great example of embracing Batman's potential while also recognizing his restrictions took place in Robin Rises. The Dark Knight stepped into a highly advanced armor and went on an action-packed mission on Apokolips. He knew he'd eventually encounter Darkseid and, even though there's some cool panels that make it look like Batman's doing well, Peter J. Tomasi's script made it abundantly clear that, even though Batman is wearing one of his most advanced armors, he's still nothing compared to Darkseid. He knocked the titan around a bit, but when all is said and done, Darkseid wasn't even fazed by the attacks and it all relied on Batman's planning. If the hero stayed instead of escaping when he got when he needed to, there's no doubt he would have died.

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Batman gearing up and taking down insanely difficult challenges is always fun and reminds us why he's such a formidable hero. There are very few things he isn't good at, but to have him always be a step ahead of his enemies or overcome obstacles with no real trouble makes those big moments less exciting. Watching Batman -- one of the most skilled and clever heroes around -- suffer a defeat and find a way to rise above has so much more potential than seeing him always win, because it focuses on his determination and tactical mind. That's why it's great he has so many villains who can thoroughly test his mind and his body. Batman can beat a whole lot of opponents, but he doesn't always win and that's okay. Being defeated doesn't make him less cool or less impressive. Instead, it reminds us that he's just a human in a crazy world yet he has what it takes to push himself even harder so he can eventually save the day. I'd say that's far more badass than him simply always winning. Thomas Wayne said it best in Batman Begins. "And why do we fall, Bruce? So we can learn to pick ourselves up."

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Outside_85

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@entropy_aegis: Difference there is that the Infinity Gauntlet has continued to appear again and again since it's initial appearance. Whereas this reverso lasso Bruce found is unlikely to be ever seen again. A) Because it's a minor object in a Batman story. B) Because it's a 180 to the CCO's work where it seemed to be a major point that WW didn't have an easily-to-use counter. C) You still dont actually know if anything in Endgame is actually real or just in Bruce's head.

@jayc1324 said:

@outside_85: That's not Snyder admitting anything. Batman beat her because he was prepared. She lost. Saying the fight would've ended badly for Batman had he not used the veil of lies is like saying the fight would've ended badly for Diana if she didnt have superpowers. These people are not way out of his league

Batwanking at it's finest, completely devoid of reality.

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Jacthripper

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Beautiful

The jimmies will rustle

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deactivated-5edd330f57b65

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@outside_85: you are just upset that wonder woman lost to batman. And you can come up with no good excuse to make it OK. Take your crying to the wonder woman forums. I'm not sure what you expected people to say to you when you complain about batman on the batman forums. My attempt to explain to you how batman won and your response of calling me a batwanker shows just how butthurt you really are. Not sure how me saying batman won because he was prepared is wanking.

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Vitality

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Batman doesn't always win THE BATTLE, but he always wins that WAR!

This^

This is why Batman is the most overpowered character in comics...in portrayal.

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deathstroke52

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Kokemabb200

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@owie: Would save a heck of a lot of time on Battle threads.. I love Batman, but too many people out there have the opinion that Batman >>>> One Above All, with prep time of course.

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DigitalShooter9

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Edited By DigitalShooter9

If you think about it, even Darkseid trips every once in a while (yes, literally) so there is nothing wrongwith Batman losing. I personally don't mind the 20 year old Deathstroke fight. If anything, the respect Slade gave Batman gives me a better image, for both characters in fact. I am looking forward to their next fight, regardless of who wins, I know it will be awesome.

In my opinion Batman does always win. Not necessarily the fight, maybe not even the war, but he wins in the grand scheme, he wins in the hearts of his fans. Just like all the other characters.

Sure the Batgod is a good break every now and then, but no character is infallible, not even Darkseid (stairs? really...) or Thanos (mugged?) even heralds get their share of humiliation (I'm looking at you firelord.).

Batman doesn't always win. No one always wins.

Batgod however.... is a different story.

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SOG7dc

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@entropy_aegis:

I mean he's like Cena in the way that he's hated because he never loses, or at least never loses to anyone outside of his own mythos. He's prepared for any and everything except the villains of Gotham because they're so much more unpredictable than anyone else. Some people love it, others hate it.

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The Impersonator

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Edited By The Impersonator
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swordmasterD

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@swordmasterd said:

@battle_forum_junkie said:

@darling_luna said:

Who's Batman ?

One of DC's Skyfather level characters.

Low ball much?

I'm just going to guess you're one of those Batman fanboys. Real fans are honest about their favorite character's power levels!

I was joking, slightly, kind of... Batgod beats *sedates self*

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username12345

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@outside_85: "feminism silliness" = new frontier, there is a scan of batman beating her up because she caused the death of humans, she was posed by a demon and he beat her up and forced her to run away, she was blindfolded which is cheap like I said. Batman confidential is not pis she needs to breath as well

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TheAmazingBatman760

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I like Batman as much as the next person and it doesn't bother if he loses sometimes.

What does bother is so much people hating on a fictional character and his feats.

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Nerd Of A Hero

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Edited By Nerd Of A Hero

Batman Doesn't Always Win and that's Okay

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Outside_85

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@outside_85: "feminism silliness" = new frontier, there is a scan of batman beating her up because she caused the death of humans, she was posed by a demon and he beat her up and forced her to run away, she was blindfolded which is cheap like I said. Batman confidential is not pis she needs to breath as well

Confidential is PIS, as I mentioned; Diana can and has taken blows from the likes of Giganta and stronger without even bruising. And now you think some guy in a cape can actually hit her harder than people that can demolish entire buildings with theirs? What's next? You think he can kick steel beams out of shape or punch down brick walls?

Blindfold: He didn't beat her, so why are you bringing it up? In fact, should I remind you that even when blindfolded, she knew he was coming and back flipped before he could perform his patented 'drop down from the ceiling feet first' move?

Again: what demon?

New Frontier: not canon

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Marcus_Halberstram

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@entropy_aegis: Difference there is that the Infinity Gauntlet has continued to appear again and again since it's initial appearance. Whereas this reverso lasso Bruce found is unlikely to be ever seen again. A) Because it's a minor object in a Batman story. B) Because it's a 180 to the CCO's work where it seemed to be a major point that WW didn't have an easily-to-use counter. C) You still dont actually know if anything in Endgame is actually real or just in Bruce's head.

@jayc1324 said:

@outside_85: That's not Snyder admitting anything. Batman beat her because he was prepared. She lost. Saying the fight would've ended badly for Batman had he not used the veil of lies is like saying the fight would've ended badly for Diana if she didnt have superpowers. These people are not way out of his league

Batwanking at it's finest, completely devoid of reality.

That was the first appearance of the Justice Buster, you can't attribute it to PIS. Just because your favourite characters lost to a much more popular character it doesn't make the showing PIS.

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Marcus_Halberstram

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@entropy_aegis said:

Batman fans dont even believe he's unbeatable,not even the most idiotic. It's his HATERS who think he's unbeatable and use that silly excuse to hate and dismiss his character. This article is made for THE HATERS.

@snakeeyes327 said:

@smart_dork_dude: My question is, if Batman is so great and can plan for anything, why is Gotham still a toilet in comparison to a lot of other places in the DCU?

Because I dunno...plot BAZINGA. Btw Gotham has only become a crap hole recently,sure it had crime and psychos but city wide devastation only became a recurring theme since the New-52. Overall,one Superman fight does more damage to Metropolis than most Batman villains can dream of. The difference is that rarely if ever the consequences of that devastation caused by Supes and his enemies are explored,when that does happen it tends to meet mixed to negative reception from Superman fans.

@sog7dc said:

Batman is like the John Cena of DC Comics.

That's Superman,Batman is closer to the Undertaker but it's trivial,no Superhero really loses,even when they do it's just a minor bump. Why is Batman being singled out? even though his actual list of failures are greater than most other super heroes?

@outside_85 said:

@thebourneposter said:
@outside_85 said:

@thebourneposter: Not sure what you mean to prove with the last of your scan. And it's not like the punch stopped her in either case.

No Caption Provided

@mellosassymel said:

Wonder Woman hallucinating that she beat Batman is the only way she's getting a win against him now.

Because you posted that scan, I assume you agree with the above quote?

Not really, while I know it was an hallucination, it would have been the actual result of the fight if Snyder hadn't resorted to pulling a counter out of nowhere.

That said, Snyder is indirectly admitting it would have ended badly for Bruce when he resorts to inventing a counter that just happens to be on the black market for Bruce to buy, just happens to completely pacify the opponent and just happens tp totally overpower the lasso of truth that it was a mirror of.

That's one way of looking at it,the on panel evidence is that this is WW's fantasy. The other scan is from DCAU and it has Lady WW killing Lord Batman because he was in love with JL WW and she tricked him in to thinking she was his lover,and then killed him from behind. That's actually a good showing for Batman,shows how characters even much more powerful than him have to resort to things like that.

That's a pretty accurate comparison

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Outside_85

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@outside_85 said:

@entropy_aegis: Difference there is that the Infinity Gauntlet has continued to appear again and again since it's initial appearance. Whereas this reverso lasso Bruce found is unlikely to be ever seen again. A) Because it's a minor object in a Batman story. B) Because it's a 180 to the CCO's work where it seemed to be a major point that WW didn't have an easily-to-use counter. C) You still dont actually know if anything in Endgame is actually real or just in Bruce's head.

@jayc1324 said:

@outside_85: That's not Snyder admitting anything. Batman beat her because he was prepared. She lost. Saying the fight would've ended badly for Batman had he not used the veil of lies is like saying the fight would've ended badly for Diana if she didnt have superpowers. These people are not way out of his league

Batwanking at it's finest, completely devoid of reality.

That was the first appearance of the Justice Buster, you can't attribute it to PIS. Just because your favourite characters lost to a much more popular character it doesn't make the showing PIS.

Ok, you tell me what the low grade Hulkbuster is made of that actually make it more formiddable that several thousand tanks.

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deactivated-5edd330f57b65

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@outside_85: It is just a story, it doesn't matter what its made out of. It's not like it is indestructible either, superman ripped the thing apart. But whatever Snyder says it is, it is.

And also the hulkbuster failed, whereas the justice buster succeeded. So "low grade hulk buster is just wrong"

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lxlGiftedlxl

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@superguy1591: A vast majority of his rouge's are crazy or have a very very warped sense of reality. With the exception of Peguin and Bane.

I do agree that Batman should have contigencies for his own villians, just like the League. However then there wouldn't be a story to craft for Batman.

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Outside_85

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@jayc1324 said:

@outside_85: It is just a story, it doesn't matter what its made out of. It's not like it is indestructible either, superman ripped the thing apart. But whatever Snyder says it is, it is.

And also the hulkbuster failed, whereas the justice buster succeeded. So "low grade hulk buster is just wrong"

As you say yourself: the suit was destroyed by Superman... just like every Hulkbuster ends up too.

And perhaps we should ask Snyder how (or why) Batman manages to make this kind of suit with only 1 go, while Lex Luthor who is supposed to be smarter, has tried for decades and not got it right yet?

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deactivated-5edd330f57b65

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@outside_85: The suit was made for a superman who was holding back, not a bloodlusted one, and it suceeded in beating the rest of the league. Once again, calling it what you called it is wrong.

Lex is not supposed to be smarter and isn't as good at prep as batman. I'm also not sure in what story Lex tries to make a suit that beats the league and failed. Sure he makes suits to beat Supes and fails but that's exactly what batman did too. His suit failed and he had to use his kryptonite gum.

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Outside_85

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@jayc1324: Ok, wtf is the suit worth if it's designed only for a 'polite' Superman? I call a piece of shit what it is.

Too bad, the last 30 years he has been smarter, Bruce just has more money and a broader perspective, nothing more. So if Lex made a suit and beat Superman, then it's still not proven to take on the rest of the League that for the most part share many of the powers Superman has, but on a smaller scale? Rubbish.

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Jeremy1989

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Flawed underdog Batman is the best and most compelling Batman, IMO. You have to wonder what sort of fans these fanboys/girls claim to be if they can't accept their favorite character's limitations. Is that really the only way they can love him? By elevating him to near godhood, exaggerating his abilities and having him win at everything all of the time? If that's the case, it doesn't sound like they truly love him all that much.

Batman isn't the only character the reached Godhood, Joker is also at fault here. He took down the entire Batfamily, the entire Justice League, He get's away with it all the time. They kinda made him untouchable. They made Joker more of a threat than Darkseid. What I'm going at is Joker is a bit overpowered.

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deactivated-5edd330f57b65

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@outside_85: Not a polite superman, just not a bloodlusted one. It wasn't made for a bloodlusted flash either but it still worked. Also the suit countered Superman's freeze breath and heat vision and took down the rest of the league. You've gone from complaining about him beating Diana to just outright insulting the suit.

Also nothing has ever said lex is smarter. Now you're also just insulting bruce. And yes, their powers are on a smaller scale so it can beat them.

You are obviously upset Diana lost to batman, which is fine an all, but there's no reason to come here and throw around insults because your mad your favorite character lost.

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FoamBorn

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Endgame was the epitome of fan service bullshit. Wonder Woman slammed his face against the concrete floor which somehow he survived unscathed, she didn't cut off his head right away and his mecha suit came out of nowhere. Inside the Mecha suit was a deus ex machina. Does anyone else besides me how many layers of bullshit went into creating this preposterous scene.

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username12345

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@outside_85: Wonder Woman still needs to breath. Batman beats Slade, Gorrila grodd, bane, killer crock, Solomon Grundy, and even the hulk once the same way captian America won.

He still beat the crud out of her but she was blind folded so it was unfair

I don't have the scan but it should be pretty easy to google. He beat her up until she was forced to run away.

If we are only talking about canon encounters during serious matches then the record is still in Batmans favor. He won endgame, the unfair blind folded fight and the demon battle. Some of batman confidential is canon but other issues aren't so that fight might be canon. She won a grand total of 0 of there non-canon encounters

Batman beat her 3 times in canon, and a lot more in other else world stories. He beat Artemis once (by cheating). He treated cheetah, wonder woman's worst enemy besides ares, like a jobber twice. Batman > Wonder Woman

And just so this doesn't turn into a batman vs Wonder Woman battle forum, yes batman does loose sometimes. But batman winning isn't the reason we love him. Seeing batman beat up villians and other heroes is fun but "batfans" like him because he has: the best story lines, the best backstory, the best movies, the best TV shows, and the best video games. He also is 100% self made which is much more interesting then lucking into getting super powers like Spider-Man. IMHO

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batzilla

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@outside_85: Wonder Woman still needs to breath. Batman beats Slade, Gorrila grodd, bane, killer crock, Solomon Grundy, and even the hulk once the same way captian America won.

He still beat the crud out of her but she was blind folded so it was unfair

I don't have the scan but it should be pretty easy to google. He beat her up until she was forced to run away.

If we are only talking about canon encounters during serious matches then the record is still in Batmans favor. He won endgame, the unfair blind folded fight and the demon battle. Some of batman confidential is canon but other issues aren't so that fight might be canon. She won a grand total of 0 of there non-canon encounters

Batman beat her 3 times in canon, and a lot more in other else world stories. He beat Artemis once (by cheating). He treated cheetah, wonder woman's worst enemy besides ares, like a jobber twice. Batman > Wonder Woman

And just so this doesn't turn into a batman vs Wonder Woman battle forum, yes batman does loose sometimes. But batman winning isn't the reason we love him. Seeing batman beat up villians and other heroes is fun but "batfans" like him because he has: the best story lines, the best backstory, the best movies, the best TV shows, and the best video games. He also is 100% self made which is much more interesting then lucking into getting super powers like Spider-Man. IMHO

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anarrowintheheart10

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let me just put that here....

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ariesxmasters

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I never understood why Batman is always the black sheep on here.

Batman gets a lot of credibility than just about every other character, because he does it as a regular human. When Superman beats a enemy no one generally cares, because it is usually the same way every time (Fly, Punch, Fly, Punch). Batman is a whole different ball game though he does it by numerous means, and it varies from story to story specially when the odds are hugely stacked against him.

Batman is not the only one guilty of this though specially when The Joker poisoned the whole Justice League.

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Edited By laabitres

so true, batmantards need to calm the hell down

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DeathpooltheT1000

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My main problems with Batman its that when he loses now it because of plot reasons, they some times even just do it to show you he is still human.

The fact he has as much skills as Superman has powers, also it like those weird Superman powers, they comes and goes depending of the plot, then they get out of hand.

Batman detective skills is him warping reality many times.

Batman needing help to build gadgets isnt something new, Lucius Fox and Harold was there too, getting help doesnt make you weak or dumb.

His omniscient intelligence, i know some one could be incredibly smart, the main problem is when this gets out of hands, Batman knows everything.

I have a thing with the whole 120 martial arts styles, since i dont believe that you need that much to be a great martial artist.

Lex Luthor scientific mind being Better that Batman isnt insane, Deathstroke being a better fighter and strategist isnt insane or that Detective Chimp its a better detective isnt insane.

They just arent as well rounded as Batman, Lex Luthor should get his bass kicked by Batman fighting skills, Deathstroke should get in troubles because Batman has better gadgets and Detective Chimp well uh is a monkey.

@vivide said:

DC's John Cena

@sog7dc said:

Batman is like the John Cena of DC Comics.

The BatChamp Is Here!!!
The BatChamp Is Here!!!

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Batmanx2005

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Now I see why we relate our self to batman character. Because all the times we win but there sometimes we don't always win. So this proves that even in comic books and movie no ones perfect like in real life.

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Dygoboy

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So BatGod is vulnerable.... I will have to tell Spiderman about this!!

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ArkhamWrath

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Everyone sometimes lose :P

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John Cena is Batman.                                                             Prep Above Hate!!!
John Cena is Batman. Prep Above Hate!!!

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lettsplay10

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Give Batman Prep Time and he would solo everyone on DC

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DeathpooltheT1000

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Give Batman Prep Time and he would solo everyone on DC

But could Batman with enough Prep, beat Batman with enough prep?

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lettsplay10

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DeathpooltheT1000

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lettsplay10

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RustyRoy

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It's completely okay. No comic book character is unbeatable.