Arrow Episode 317 - "Suicidal Tendencies"

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k4tzm4n

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Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

*There's spoilers in here. Don't fail yourself by reading the review if you don't want anything ruined for you.*

"You hurt her, they'll never find your body. Nice to meet you!"

The Suicide Squad is finally back! Unfortunately, Bronze Tiger isn't with them -- he was apparently killed in the tie-in comic. Bummer, right? Now that Task Force X has returned for a totally safe and foolproof mission, the adventure places John Diggle, Lyla Michaels, andDeadshot in the spotlight. Also, this show has offered a ton of teasers about Ray Palmer gearing up and saving the city as Atom (or is it A.T.O.M.?), so they of course found a way to tie that into what's going on with Ra's al Ghul's violent operation.

When the show started juggling a Suicide Squad story and an Arrow story, I immediately thought, "Man, the Oliver back story is really going to get in the way of all this." Thankfully, the people behind the show had a similar thought and instead gave Floyd Lawton, a.k.a. Deadshot, some additional depth. It's a big departure from the source material and that's okay because honestly, his comic origin warrants more than a few scenes. Instead, they simplify his story and it's far more powerful. Arrow humanized Deadshot by making him suffer from PTSD -- something that unfortunately impacts many people -- and that brought some much-needed emotion to his story. It also gives the serious matter a little more attention, and if that potentially helps even one person out there, I'd say it was worth it to go in that direction. Plus, H.I.V.E.! Despite all of this, his death didn't hit me because I was too busy questioning the logic behind it. Wasn't he sniping into the building that was set to explode, so that means he was really on a different building? How'd he end up on the roof of the one he was previous shooting at? Are they connected? Why couldn't he head down and give them cover while also moving to escape? The dude is awesome with pistols, too, and the team can shoot and run, can't they? I get it's all about the message -- he's sacrificing himself so they can have the life he can't have -- but his sacrifice really didn't seem necessary to me.

While I didn't think Diggle and Lyla's story was as interesting as Floyd's, it is a big episode for them. Not only was the wedding sequence amusing (minus Oliver obviously being all kinds of dead on the inside as he sees Felicity and Ray together), but the ending is an especially important one for them. After all the nonsense they've had to deal with, they deserve a happy ending. I just hope it doesn't mean we've seen the last of them. As for Cupid, it's pretty clear she's there just to add a little levity to the story. None of her lines made me laugh, but if you enjoyed her debut, those remarks might make you smile.

My biggest criticism is people not saying what they need to say just so the drama can be stretched out a little more. Why didn't Felicity justify why Arrow's secret isn't her's to tell? Why didn't Oliver at least partially explain to Ray what really happened instead of just letting the guy think he went crazy after being on an island all by himself for several years? I wanted to leap into the scene and say, "Just open up and talk to them about it!" on both occasions. We can still have drama without people being frustratingly stubborn or not saying anything when they usually would. "Gregg, Oliver is stubborn. It's kind of his thing." Yup, I get that and it's even plainly stated in the episode. However, when he's dealing with a situation this big (e.g. Ray knows who he is and wants to tell the world), you'd think he'd at least try to talk the guy out of it a little harder. I mean, what was the backup plan to stop him?

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Arrow vs. Atom may have not been that long, but it was a refreshing action sequence. I know the show has a hard-working stunt team, but it seems like things too often boil down to familiar showings of hand-to-hand combat or chase sequences. Here, it was simply fun watching someone who can zip around and fire projectiles that aren't arrows or bullets while also seeing Oliver use his brain instead of just rushing into a melee fight. Poor Roy, though...

Minor criticisms: First, Arrow totally walked away from the Atom fight while Roy was still on the ground and possibly injured, didn't he? That's kind of humiliating and selfish, no? "He could have gone to him after that shot!" Yeah, but the whole point of that shot was to make Arrow look cool as he walked away from the conflict with Ray, and I'm pretty certain he wasn't walking in the direction of Roy's body. And I thought Oliver didn't bring Roy last time because they're dealing with the League of Assassins? Why was this time any different? Secondly, when you have multiple people fighting one person, it's tough not to notice when the attackers are doing everything possible not to land a strike when the protagonist is vulnerable. I think I even saw one of them scuffle backwards for no good reason. At least none of them fell down without ever being touched! I also thought the Suicide Squad shootouts were a little head-scratching. There were so many moments when people had poor cover or none at all, very easy shots available, bad guys reacted terribly, so on and so on. I found myself way more interested in the scenes of them talking because the action just didn't seem like it was doing anything to really impress. The Suicide Squad material worked because of character, not chaos. Lastly, no one really thinks the person in the cliffhanger is in serious danger, right? Maybe they get hurt, but killed? I'm saying there's a 0% chance that'll occur based on what happens in the cliffhanger. However, the chances of someone else pushing said person out of the way and getting injured in the process, or said person suffering a non-fatal injury? I'm going with a 100% chance of that.

Random thoughts: Does everyone on team Arrow set their phone to give them notifications whenever there's a big story with the word "Arrow?" And everyone else agrees the bad guy in the Suicide Squad story had a pretty flawed plan, right? At least it produces something important in the end, but jeez, it's not thought out all that well. Also, Oliver says to Ray, "she chose you" or something like that. Isn't it really "I chose to push her away," though? I was also left wondering why Ra's was in the city in the last episode and is now nowhere to be seen, but maybe he's conducting this operation from somewhere within Starling City? This is a huge deal to him, after all.

I was never a big fan of Deadshot in this show (despite loving the comic version) and this episode changed that. Sure, I think the ending wasn't necessary, but it brought in a more compelling topic and gave me a very strong emotional connection to the guy. Finally giving Diggle and Lyla more insight was also hugely appreciated -- they deserve some extra love. While some characters are pretty frustrating back in Starling City, I'm pleasantly surprised they were able to resolve a conflict between two main characters in just one episode and they did so in an entertaining way. (I was kind of worried they'd drag that plot out for as long as possible.) Yes, I have a lot of criticisms about "Suicidal Tendencies," but many of them are pretty minor and overall I do think it's an improvement over last week's episode. Roy would probably strongly disagree with me, though.

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hyperman

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#1  Edited By hyperman

Only Amanda Waller and Deadshot are left from the real roster , this is not the actual Suicide Squad to me.

And I'd like to see Oliver and Roy sharing a kiss, i can sense some sexual tension between both of them.

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akiro616

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the treatment of arsenal in this season (aside from the three without arrow in starling) has been terrible hes just there so some one can be knocked out to show that the bad guy is ment to be real tough so it looks like oliver beating him was a big deal

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godzilla44

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Loved this episode, not to sappy but the emotional aspects in the episode hit the right spots; especially for Deadshot.

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sailorsriracha

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i kept joking that they just straight up killed off roy in that scene. poor kid

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Lurkero

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My biggest criticism is people not saying what they need to say just so the drama can be stretched out a little more

You just summarized 2.5 seasons of Arrow. Remember when the characters were getting better around episode 313 because people were actually expressing their feelings? Good times.

At this rate I am not sure I am going to like the conclusion of Arrow season 3. It seems like Oliver hasn't learned a thing since he became Arrow and he is just getting more stubborn.

All I hope for now is that Nyssa does something cool to bring sense back to this show.

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Black_Arrow

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Deadshot was awesome, Ray got owned and the imposter is really obvious.

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MICKEY-MOUSE

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Jesus the fight scenes and shootouts in this episode were terrible.

Secondly, when you have multiple people fighting one person, it's tough not to notice when the attackers are doing everything possible not to land a strike when the protagonist is vulnerable. I think I even saw one of them scuffle backwards for no good reason.At least none of them fell down without ever being touched!

And people on Comicvine make fun of the Chiturai in Avengers? When you have badguys here literally trying not to hit the good guy? The ninjas from this LOA started out really bad*** in season 2, now they suck and are just generic cannon fodder. Jesus, homeboy literally just fellout without ever being hit by Ollie.

Also some other things bothered me:

"You hurt her, they'll never find your body. Nice to meet you!"

What is Felecity a little girl? That was lame line from Diggle and honestly came off really awkward. This is a grown women, not some 15 yearold virgin in girl that needs special protection.

Cupid: Fake Harley Quinn

She was alright, but honestly she came off more as annoying than funny.

Deadshot:

They basically telegraphed his death as soon as he suddenly got this spurge of character development. I have the feeling that WB was like "Umm, we can only have 1 live action Deadshot floating around." I'm guessing after this we will no longer be seeing any such Suicide Squad activity anymore.

Hive:

Honestly this is one of the really good things that came out of this, I'm hoping this means Hive for Season 4.

Atom VS Arrow:

OK, show runners...Ollie doesn't have to win every single one of these Arrow vs (Insert New Hero) fights, OK. Seriously Ray builds a billionaire dollar suit and it gets taken out by a single flechette. The suit was totally looking bad*** & had things going, then in a few secs went from "Ironman" to worthless Tin Can. I guess Ray goes to Star Labs to get his suit fixed.

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MrMazz

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But how is there going to be a Secret Six show now?

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AllStarSuperman

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#9  Edited By AllStarSuperman

I liked it. Basically I agree with Lukehero.

Also, love the jab at the dark Knight rises fodder.

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The_Kidd

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#10  Edited By The_Kidd

- This would have been a better episode if it was Suicide Squad/Diggle centric. It sad when a show gets better when the main cast doesn’t make much appearances.

- I love how Oliver just left Roy to die.

- Once the Deadshot flachback came on you should know he is about to die, I was curious how WB are allowing CW to continue use him as he is apart of the DCCU now.

- 3/5

@lukehero I think WB did restrict them because WB prevented them from bring back Harley this season and the Squad was suppose to be apart to this new spin-off that is desperately searching for a title.

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dan12456

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@lukehero: Ramsay confirmed in an interview yesterday that HIVE is a big bad in season 4. Combined with the Damien dark stuff I'm sure it is the main villain.

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regiebravo

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I hope that somehow, some way, Deadshot isn't dead.

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SynCig

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Gotta go with a three on this episode. Some things I actually kind of liked but too many nagging annoyances brought it down a notch. I am probably in the minority here but I hate that Arrow keeps stealing villains from other characters. I know that Green Arrow doesn't have a particularly strong rogues gallery to take from but when you are taking fairly major aspects of other characters and re-purposing them (Slade Wilson and now HIVE, among many others) it starts to bother me. Slade was fine because that season was awesome but with the Titans show coming up, Arrow has already used their biggest villain (Deathstroke) and one of historical importance (HIVE). These universes won't be connected so it's possible that Titans could use these characters again but somehow I doubt they'd want to considering they'll be targeting audiences likely already watching Arrow.

I also found Iron Atom Man to be underwhelming. The scene itself was cool but would it have killed them to make Atom actually have his powerset? He could develop that power later but as of now he is just a poor man's Iron Man.

Others have mentioned this as well but the fight scenes were fairly weak. When there is a wide shot showing multiple combatants at once, it is painfully obvious that they are trying to avoid striking when actual people would.

The Suicide Squad parts of the episode were riddled with writing gaffs. Why didn't the Squad just shoot the gun out of the politician's hand as soon as he pointed it at someone? Instead all four members stood there slackjawed. Not to mention, the guy's entire plan was ridiculous. Especially since it ended up working...

A lot of my complaints are fairly minor on their own (except my annoyance at villain stealing) but adding them all up (some not mentioned here), it results in an average viewing experience. This season is beyond redemption at this point imo because even if they stick the landing, a vast majority of the episodes this season haven't been all that good. This is another in a long list of mediocrity for the season.

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FearTheLiving

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The more the season goes on the more I feel like dropping the show altogether. Ray isn't even the Atom he's an Iron Man wannabe, Cupid is annoying, Killed off the only decent SS member, the campyness that was the wedding, the love triangle, chick gets shot with an arrow and everybody just stands there looking at her?

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MICKEY-MOUSE

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jackcryan

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Need more members on the Suicide Squad, having crazy Cupid there wasn't enough.

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Sawcesome

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"A.T.O.M." you say?

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NightFang3

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#18  Edited By NightFang3

I think i'm done with this show until they get their crap back together.

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Mfundroid

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@hyperman said:

And I'd like to see Oliver and Roy sharing a kiss, i can sense some sexual tension between both of them.

LOL, that's funny.

I think i'm done with this show until they get their crap back together.

I think I might actually feel the same way. I basically fast forwarded the entire episode.

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deactivated-57dd84d2af8d3

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As always, the Oliver and Felicity stuff is poorly handled because they never had romantic chemistry. Just because they tell us they like eachother, doesn't mean I'll believe it.

They continue to make Roy useless. I like Roy, I like the actor playing Roy. How about making Roy more integral to each episode? Maybe do the same for Laurel because after sucking hard last season, they pulled a 180 with her. I'd like to see Laurel play a bigger role in Team Arrow.

Screw the tie-in comic. Deadshot was great the past two seasons and with him dead, Bronze Tiger needs to be back. Where was he this episode? On a different mission for Waller.

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Mfundroid

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#21  Edited By Mfundroid

I personally felt that there was nothing squad like about the Suicide Squad. It felt way off. Don't even get me started on all those fight scenes, especially when bow and arrow managed to beat super suit. Sigh...

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MAZAHS117

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Iron Man?! Wtf are you doing here?!

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Scarbearer

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Also, I'm calling it now. Deadshot's totally not actually dead. This is how H.I.V.E. gets him back.

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loppez

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#24  Edited By loppez

that was sooo bad.

- every fight scene was clumsy.

- deadshot and cupid were like mehh suicide squad.

- oliver/felicity/palmer highschool drama and for the god's sake somebody teach Emily Bett Rickards how to act. Her drama/emotional scenes are horrible.

- arrow vs atom was the worst thing. jesus christ, I understand that their budget is tight but the fight was like two shots and one throwing knife and that's it. palmer is done.

2/10

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sasquatch888

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why make atom like ironman ? the use of the emp by arrow was good .. they need to do better on the atom cgi but it has potential ....I like ray palmer ...not to sure about the atom armor or felicity's acting but ill keep watching to the last episode of the last season even if its not perfect ...its green arrow and I love green arrow

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k4tzm4n

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#26  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

@lukehero: What is Felecity a little girl? That was lame line from Diggle and honestly came off really awkward. This is a grown women, not some 15 yearold virgin in girl that needs special protection.

Diggle is Oliver's best friend. Oliver is clearly in love with Felicity, but doesn't act on it because drama so she can be happy. Diggle cares for Felicity a lot; she's important to him and her happiness means the world to his best friend (or so it seems). I see nothing wrong with him being protective over someone he cares so much about and to do it during a first introduction is hilarious. That scene didn't tell me he thinks she needs protection, it told me he just wants to make sure this guy realizes how important she is and that deserves to be happy.

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JewishDork

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Deadshot will most likely be back sometime next season. I expect him to come back with all the Deadshot head gear and armor from the comics that we are used to. The armor would cover up a disfigured and burned body from that explosion.

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Surza7

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i kept joking that they just straight up killed off roy in that scene. poor kid

roy gets owned,just like krillin,and noone cared lol! Also still wondering what changed in the show because of what Flash did,since they are the same universe.

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sailorsriracha

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@surza7 said:

roy gets owned,just like krillin,and noone cared lol! Also still wondering what changed in the show because of what Flash did,since they are the same universe.

i wonder if they'll even acknowledge the time shift. i think i read somewhere that flash's hiatus those couple weeks knocked everything off whack for a couple episodes? so they no longer line up as they should. don't quote me on it, i just feel like that was said somewhere and it seems to make sense.

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hyperman

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SupBatz

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Better than I expected, but still not great. I didn't have high hopes for this episode after not much liking the last Suicide Squad episode. Deadshot surprised me, however. I have grown to appreciate his presence on the show. His backstory was a bit generic, and could have been more impactful if given more screentime. But I digress. Cupid was less annoying, but still not very interesting. At least they didn't go out of their way to make her a huge part of the episode.

Palmer's behavior seemed completely irrational. And Oliver's "I can't be with you because I'm a hero" excuse wore thin, as usual. That whole portion of the episode was an enormous disappointment.

Laurel was pretty damn awesome though. Her brief role in this episode may very well be the highlight.

6/10.

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Sachmoo

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"Dude, don't leave Roy!" - My wife when Oli was just walking off hahaha.

So, the only reason i can think of for them to kill off Deadshot, is if they wanted to end Suicide Squad. I mean Lyla and Diggle pretty much quit too, so it makes sense. Other than that his death was either pointless, or faked. Why kill off a character who moves the needle once or twice a season, but his death helps no plot?

He was going to do the exact same thing in their last mission until Diggle reminded him of his daughter, why didn't he do that again?

Oh and, i didn't know maseo was part of Hydra! "When one falls, 2 more rise"!

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MICKEY-MOUSE

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@k4tzm4n: I disagree, he stepped way over the line. That's something protective male would say to a younger females BF. It was completely left field. If he really cares about Felecity he could have run a background check on Palmer and found out really quickly that he was a good guy.

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k4tzm4n

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#34 k4tzm4n  Moderator

@lukehero said:

@k4tzm4n: I disagree, he stepped way over the line. That's something protective male would say to a younger females BF. It was completely left field. If he really cares about Felecity he could have run a background check on Palmer and found out really quickly that he was a good guy.

Well, apparently Ray disagrees because he didn't take it to heart and then even conducted the guy's wedding. And having a clean history doesn't mean you're a "good guy" with relationships. He could be a cheater, he could view it as a fling, etc.

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bigcimmerian

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#35  Edited By bigcimmerian

Wait so Roy was just abandoned by Oliver like that in battlefield? :D

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rogueshadow

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#36 rogueshadow  Moderator

Getting real tired of Arrow's sh*t, it used to at least be fun, now it's just bad acting, plot and dialogue, even the fights aren't good anymore. Bring back Manu, at least it's fun when he's on screen.

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The_Kidd

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@bigcimmerian: lol but why are people surprise Oliver has always been a bit of a hypocrite, he promised Star City not to leave them abandoned the city the following week.

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deactivated-5d2b83d5a0d79

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This show is so awful now.

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bigcimmerian

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Getting real tired of Arrow's sh*t, it used to at least be fun, now it's just bad acting, plot and dialogue, even the fights aren't good anymore. Bring back Manu, at least it's fun when he's on screen.

Bring back Brick, those few episodes with him were better than the rest of the season by far.

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Black_Arrow

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I loled at Oliver leaving Roy in the battlefield.

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MICKEY-MOUSE

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@bigcimmerian: Brick taking over the city was more fun than anything else this season. Well, after Flash vs Arrow. Hell Bring Back Captain Boomerang. @k4tzm4n: Maybe, but I still see the line as over the top. A simple; "Hey treat her well" would have been enough. Even then, it still feels dopey IMO.

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Paul2814

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#42  Edited By Paul2814

Atom's suit is pathetic

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BullPR

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@sachmoo said:

"Dude, don't leave Roy!" - My wife when Oli was just walking off hahaha.

More or less what my wife said.

Personally I didn't care, because (i) it didn't make any sense to bring him in in the first place when two minutes earlier Oliver specifically told him not to come in these cases because the league was involved and (ii) a Fu&%*#ing knife was enough to shut down the suit. Really, after all this build-up?

This third season is beyond pathetic.

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Pelykan

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Couldn't they have turned off their phones during the wedding. At the very least Diggle should have.

And then to just insta leave the wedding including the bride and groom, come on. If they care that little marry in Vegas.

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k4tzm4n

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#45 k4tzm4n  Moderator

@lukehero said:

@bigcimmerian: Brick taking over the city was more fun than anything else this season. Well, after Flash vs Arrow. Hell Bring Back Captain Boomerang. @k4tzm4n: Maybe, but I still see the line as over the top. A simple; "Hey treat her well" would have been enough. Even then, it still feels dopey IMO.

DOPEY DIGGLE IS MY FAVORITE DIGGLE, SIR.

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MICKEY-MOUSE

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@k4tzm4n: Are you guys going to do a mini story post on the Arrow Spoiler Photos that just popped up?

It could be Flash Point Arrow or a Massive Team Up to fight Reverse Flash. This could mean Arrow joins Ras and It's LOA VS HIVE for Season 4!!!

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The plot holes and bad combat scenes are really getting out of hand lately. Feels more like Im watching Octosquid VS Dinoshark 7 or something...

Cupid is ridiculously cute though, I want more of her even if her character is annoying as hell heh

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MICKEY-MOUSE

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@vascillator: Yeah, there are have been a couple of really bad fights this season including the three way fight between Arrow, Malcolm, & Nyssa.

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k4tzm4n

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#49 k4tzm4n  Moderator

@lukehero: Probably not. I'm disappointed I even saw those images earlier today. Such a ginormous spoiler. Could still play out many different ways, but it's still spoilertastic.

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@k4tzm4n: It's a major spoiler, but it doesn't totally ruin things for me because it can play out in a number of different ways.

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