Arrow Episode 316 - "The Offer"

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k4tzm4n

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Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

*Yes, there's some spoilers in here. Don't fail yourself by reading this before you watch the episode.*

"John might of told me about your employment offer from evil incorporated."

The last time Arrow aired, it left us with a pretty polarizing twist. Now, it's back to explain why it dropped that bombshell and what it means for everyone back in Starling City. When they hit us with that cliffhanger, I was one of the people with a very negative knee-jerk reaction. I mean, it even inspired me to write an editorial about it. I have no problem eating my words and thankfully, I do believe they do somewhat justify the offer. I don't think anyone believes even for a second that Oliver will accept, but they make the offer easier to swallow and the move does bring the rest of the season in a new direction. As the spoiler-filled sizzle reel revealed, it sure looks like there's a lot of excitement ahead of us. Whether it delivers is something we've yet to see, but we're here to talk about tonight's episode, right? So, let's get to it.

Matt Nable has won me over and then some. Every time he's on the screen, the scene becomes way more engaging. He's able to offer just the right presence as the Demon's Head. He's wise and respectable, but he also can strike fear into others when it's needed. And that moment he showed off his reflexes? Yeah, you know the moment I'm talking about! That was easily the most badass and jaw-dropping sequence in the episode. That said, I do want to start calling him "Ra's al Foreshadowing" after his early talk with Oliver. I'd rather call him Ra's al Awesome though, because Nable is awesome as the villain.

Let's talk about Oliver's offer. I can understand why he'd consider it and I'm glad there's a reason that goes beyond just "Ra's sees potential in him." Considering Ra's claimed Oliver could make his followers go non-lethal, it's understandable why he'd seriously debate the offer. However, it is frustrating he once again held back from telling his allies the truth. I know we can justify it by saying he wouldn't want to hear their criticisms right away, but let's be honest here, he held back to save the more personal drama and individual opinions for later.

Murmur felt like he was included just to create a few action scenes and give Oliver an epiphany that one of his teammates could have given him in a better way. I mean, watching Nyssa slice fools was fun and Roy had one sweet kick, but aside from that, it wasn't exactly one of the more memorable action scenes the show has created. This villain had potential, but his role never really turned into anything all that exciting and the dude was effortlessly taken out. I get why he was included, but having a character on Oliver's side make him realize the obvious ("hey man, you're saving lives every time you go out there") would have more potential and allowed the supporting cast to shine. But yeah, at least watching Nyssa slice goons was a fair amount of fun.

For me, some of the show's best scenes came from the sequences between fathers and daughters. The dynamic is totally different in the three families (Lance, al Ghul, Merlyn) and, for the two Starling City families, this season's dramatic experiences have made the daughters infinitely more interesting. I love seeing a levelheaded and rational Laurel -- one season ago she'd be going through the motions she explain to her father and would probably lash out, too -- and Thea should be incredibly conflicted after all she's endured. I imagine very few of us can imagine what her situation is like. It's been a very twisted experience for her, so to have her struggle with what's right and what isn't feels natural and it leaves me very curious to see where this path will take her. Plus, all three fathers are great actors. And yes, I think Quentin has every right to be acting the way he is. It's a shame the sizzle reel spoiled a big moment for him, but I'm still curious to see how he gets there.

No Caption Provided

Oliver's a pretty stubborn dude, isn't he? No one's perfect, but I'm surprised no one from team Arrow was able to remind him of the countless things he's done to help the city. Sure, Deathstroke is on him, but what about taking down Malcolm Merlyn back in Season 1? Yes, people have died, but how many lives have their actions saved? A lot, I'm guessing. I'm kind of surprised none of his closest allies could point this out to him. If they did, it went over my head, because I sure don't remember any of them making a compelling case. It was also surprising that Diggle -- a guy who's often the voice of reason -- didn't step up to help his friend about this dilemma when he really, really needed it. I really wish Diggle was there to say, "Quentin hating you is on you because of your lying, not because of you being Arrow. Also, remember all those lives we saved? And Felicity isn't with you because you pushed her away first, man." Did anyone catch that oh-so-brief moment when Oliver popped a smile, though? I know this show aims for heavier and darker material, but seeing him smirk, even just for a second, was so refreshing.

Unfortunately, the back story didn't seem to bring much weight to the episode either. I really feel like they're just building up our connection to this kid just to kill him off and hope it hits us even harder. It seems like a line in one of the previous episodes telegraphed this kid's death. Show of hands: who thinks that's really Shado? I don't, but at least it ended on an interesting enough note!

Despite the kind of flak CW often receives about its handled of romance, I usually don't mind most of the relationship drama in this show. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case in this one. There was I point when I looked at my fiance and said," They better not kiss because that would be way too predictable." Sure enough, that happened almost immediately after I finished the sentence. I get it, someone's vulnerable and wants comfort and affection from someone they trust, but there's so many more subtle ways to show it. The same happened right when a certain someone called during a more passionate moment.

Minor criticisms: What was Oliver's grappling line attached to? The building way in front of him was like two stories tall. Is it just me or is Nyssa handling this development very well? I mean, I'm happy to see she's connecting with someone, but man, I guess she had a lot of time to clear her head as she went to Starling City. Good for her, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who expected more anger and frustration from her. So, it's official that Oliver healed because of his willpower (in addition to the basic medical attention, obviously). I'm sorry, it's just tough for me to get over that, especially after Sara was killed so easily. (Also, Thea once again said she shot Sara in the chest but I remember it being in the stomach. But hey, she wasn't in control of her own mind when it happened.) Is it just me or did Laurel and Roy totally fail in that warehouse scene? Roy had an embarrassing showing (it doesn't help that he warned his enemies first) and Laurel had so much time to react to that car. But at least Roy got a bit of revenge for that time Nyssa hit him in the neck with a dart! Really though, I feel like Roy was the one in need of that "you need more training" line.

The following is a joke, so for the love of all that's holy, don't take it seriously. Oliver wants to be Batman, Ra's wants Oliver to be him, and Ra's ends up being Oliver. Next week, Roy becomes Black Canary!

Despite some promising character arcs and a few strong performances, I just wasn't all that enthusiastic about tonight's episode. It wasn't bad, but a lot of minor criticism began to add up and the villain wasn't needed at all. Seriously, I would have loved to see that time dedicated to the characters we already care about instead a seemingly throwaway villain-of-the-week. He's there to open Oliver's eyes, but one of the people close to him could have accomplished that in a more emotional and meaningful way. Or at least I believe so. Anyway, I'm sure we can all see where the cliffhanger is taking us, but hopefully it'll all play out in a great way.

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Transformers1024

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I'm assuming this isn't even worth catching up on at this point..

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obsidian_raindrop1

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deactivated-5c901e667a76c

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I thought it said "The Otter" at first.

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Transformers1024

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@xwraith: I read it as "The Office" at first. I'd watch that crossover in a second.

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Lurkero

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I think Oliver's friends didn't remind him of all the good he's done because the writers are trying to drive an irrational plot and they are avoiding a voice of reason.

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k4tzm4n

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#6  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

@xwraith said:

I thought it said "The Otter" at first.

"I will smash your skull, Oliver, like a clam on my tummy!"

(Okay, that's probably pretty random if you don't watch South Park...)

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SilverPool

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The concept of the diamond bullets was so unbelievably dumb.

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SaintWildcard

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Such a strong week for CV TV shows.... Arrow breaks the chain :/

I hope it improves next season

@k4tzm4n said:

@xwraith said:

I thought it said "The Otter" at first.

"I will smash your skull, Oliver, like a clam on my tummy!"

(Okay, that's probably pretty random if you don't watch South Park...)

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SupBatz

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There were some horrible camera angles in this episode.

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MuyJingo

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I feel completely opposite regarding Matt Nable's portrayal of Ra's. I think it's just terrible. Acting ability or lack thereof aside, he doesn't even try to hide his accent which takes me out of the show every time.

Casting an Australian rugby player as Ra's al Ghul has to be one of the more mystifying casting choices made in recent years.

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deactivated-5c901e667a76c

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@k4tzm4n said:

@xwraith said:

I thought it said "The Otter" at first.

"I will smash your skull, Oliver, like a clam on my tummy!"

(Okay, that's probably pretty random if you don't watch South Park...)

I've seen a couple episodes, but it's been a while.

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the_stegman

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#12  Edited By the_stegman  Moderator

This episode was unbelievably bland. No real plot, just typical melodrama. And I wish they would give this "Olicity'' crap a rest. Either put them together, or move on. I'm tired of Oliver getting jealous every time another guy talks to Felicity, but never making a move when she's single.

This episode is a 2 for me...barely.

Also, these China flashbacks are dull and time wasting. Just cut them out.

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Gotham331

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The flash is definitely overpowering this show.

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superior_prime_maybe

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I think ill pass

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jackcryan

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So is Nyssa going to get together with Laurel? Does Nyssa have the secret power to turn anyone into a lesbian, because thats what its starting to feel like

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Gotham331

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#16  Edited By Gotham331

You know it's bad when my mom realizes that Ras Al Ghuls offer to Oliver was in Batman

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buttersdaman000

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Strong "meh"

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MrMazz

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#18  Edited By MrMazz

@jackcryan: Because women can't just have dinner? Because someone can't find solace and connection in the sister of her partner?

Good ep of Arrow and solid continuation of Oliver's path to more superheroics and less brooding vigilantisim - like Silver Age Batman but gritty camp.

Nyssa needs to just go get Deadshot and form teh Secret Six with Sara. That's the spin-off I want.

CHEAP PLUG to User Review

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GalacticFork

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#19  Edited By GalacticFork

I'll watch this in the morning, but this isn't promising. It's sad, at first I wasn't super into Flash as much as I was Arrow, but now it's sort of switching. Flash is doing some really interesting stuff lately, but Arrow is sort of flailing wildly... So I'm less enamored with it, despite the joy I have that Laurel's growth is really great this season. It's almost Laurel's improvements have sucked some of the life out of everything else.

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TrueMarvel

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@transformers1024: It's improving now with the last few episodes.

I disagree. It's actually gotten worse the last few episodes.... The amount of character irrationality and plot induced Stupidity has reached an all time high for this show.

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IndomitableRegal

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#21  Edited By IndomitableRegal

I found the episode decent. They did a respectable job of explaining why Ra's wanted Ollie to take his place. Also, I'll be honest, part of me wanted Oliver to take the offer or at least give it a couple episodes of strong consideration (and if he acted like a slightly less morally conscious version of himself during this time, that would've been fine too).

I was a little thrown off by Nyssa just all of a sudden returning to Starling despite complaining about an outsider taking her legacy. I was also confused as to why Felicity seemed to get all flirty when she's been giving a pretty strong cold shoulder for awhile, and her and Ray seem to have a good dynamic going. And I have to point this out: "Don't let your footing betray you..." felt a lot like Batman Begins Ra's telling Bruce to mind his surroundings.

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MICKEY-MOUSE

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#22  Edited By MICKEY-MOUSE

And the tales of the Lazuras Pits are in the Holy Quran...

Wait what the ****? All these years reading the Quran and I missed that chapter?

------------------------------------

The villain needs to steal diamonds to make diamond tipped bullets as opposed to you know, just buying legal or even illegal body piercing ammo?

o_o

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

What you waiting around for a Thank You?

Umm. Yeah, you ungrateful ***hat.

-------------------------

Shadow is not dead? So the entire reason for the existence of Season 2 just went down the drain? Let's all hope and pray that is a twin or a cousin.

---------------------------

Nyssa just got a new GF, WHOHOO!!!!!!!!!!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm really upset my Dad is totally crazy and evil.

So like a typically poor written comicbook female...I'm gonna need sex to fix things.

2 Star Episode. Diamond Tipped Bullets? Like really? Because there is no such thing as armor piercing rounds or incendiaries.

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Fallen_Crippled

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It was a decent episode. Nyssa was my favorite in this episode. I didn't mind how fast she got over her father. I hope that we see a lot more of her. And now I can't wait to see her and Laurel to train together. I want to see an awesome, ass-kicking Laurel next season. Her character is really growing on me. I agree that Roy needs some more training. Colton Hayne's acting bothers me sometimes. Its not all that great. I haven't really had a problem with anybody else's acting but his... He is good looking, but doesn't really sell some powerful scenes. Could be just me.

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MICKEY-MOUSE

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This episode was unbelievably bland. No real plot, just typical melodrama. And I wish they would give this "Olicity'' crap a rest. Either put them together, or move on. I'm tired of Oliver getting jealous every time another guy talks to Felicity, but never making a move when she's single.

This episode is a 2 for me...barely.

Also, these China flashbacks are dull and time wasting. Just cut them out.

It was so, so bad. Diamond Tipped Bullets? I was like? Huh....

Ras doing work he could has just sent a henchmen to do? Why?

Sure we get Detective Lance is mad, but he's overacting. Your Daughter was living a dangerous life. She is gonna die violently, no duh. Don't you think they were concerned about your health?

The concept of the diamond bullets was so unbelievably dumb.

So...so stupid. So dumb.

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MiQ039

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@lukehero: When I heard that part " Chronicled by Al-Khadir in the Holy Quran" I yelled out BS. not Quran but A hadith

Somehow, i feel the show-runners are putting more effort into the Flash(and its totally awesome), and Arrow less.

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deactivated-57dd84d2af8d3

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-Despite everything seeming to point towards Oliver being too Batman, I still believe they're going to make that Arrow>GA transformation we all want. I hope they make Oliver Queen a more active character like they seemed to be doing early in S2 and later ditched.

-Felicity is with Ray, that's for the better. I've said this plenty and I'll say it again, Oliver and Felicity have zero romantic chemistry.

-Nable's doing a great job, they just need to make him look a little more like Ra's. All they needed to do was fix up his hair and beard a little.

-Flashbacks this episode were pointless. Every time I'm interested in them, they just don't show enough. Either ditch them or make them worthwhile.

-They're juggling too large of a cast. Quentin is finally getting screen time. What was he doing all of the first half of the season? Team Arrow now has 6 full-time members and then there's the rest of the supporting cast they have to account for.

Arrow has made a lot of missteps this season, but every mistake is completely salvageable. It's still an enjoyable show, just heavily flawed and weaker in comparison to The Flash.

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MAZAHS117

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Wtf happened to this show?!

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Stahlflamme

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"Your resurrection wasn't a gift from these waters, bu-" Let me just cut you off right there Ra's, but thanks that you voice the fans complains about Olivers resurrection.

Arrow certainly isn't at its height anymore. I mean the whole Ra's al Ghul successor thing, is the biggest batman rippoff, yet, but even if you look past that...

The villain was unnecessary and feels like he would have fit better in season 1, when he was still fighting corruption. The diamond bullets were stupid, so were is lips. Also he escaped during the robbery, which lets be honest he wasn't nearly well enough organized or capable for. Why was it impossible to follow the transporter? Should be easy to spot and they have done it before.

Yeah, in the first season he fought corruption, the abuse of power towards the poor... Apparently that was resolved and you only have to handle petty robberies now. Lets not mention that. Nothing changed at all.

The show keeps making excuses for having Merlon around this season. The dumbest one was no prison can hold people like him and Oliver, because a) Nyssa, Oliver and Malcolm himself have been held by prisons this season and b) this massmurderer can't be held by prison, lets not even try and have him run off.

I get he doesn't want him to die now, because his sister might feel responsible someday, but why the f*ck, would you leave her alone with the man who emotionally manipulated and brainwashed her into his murder weapon? He needs to recover? A) he is a fucking super assassin season 1 main villain, if Oliver had tossed him off a skyscraper, he would have survived with only half his bones broken, drag himself to the next cover and nurse himself back to health to show up towards the end of the season or the next season and more importantly B) Just hand him over to the police, he gets medical treatment and gets thrown in jail. Ra's had called of the hunt for the time they did not need him anymore.

The flashbacks at this point feel like they are only there to stick to the shows formular and feel really forced and boring.

And the ending... Ra's al Ghul putting on a green hood and framing the Arrow for murder... God, that is fucking grunt work! Seeing Ra's hopping around in that outfit would make me laugh very very hard, if I did not feel like crying, he looks ridiculous. Also he killed one by shooting him in the stomach, but Oliver shot two guys in the stomach this episode.

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TrueMarvel

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The only good thing about the episode is that Nable reveals picked Arrow to be the the successor thanks to a dumb prophecy instead of Oliver actually being worthy(because he isn't). Since it's because of a stupid prophecy Ras might be convinced that Oliver is too stupid to run the league of Assassins. I've watched the entire series. Not freaking once did I feel Oliver was worthy of running the league of assassins. Nothing. He isn't qualified in the slightest.

He got his ass kicked by Ras. Sure he lived, but it has nothing to do with his skill. Or even his "will". Ras should be picking someone who can match his level of skill. Not a boy who didn't even allmost win the duel. I was SHOCKED when Ras said Oliver lasted longer than most. I was like "Well isn't that because you are playing with him". If Oliver is one of the best combatants hes faced than based off that fight Ras hasn't faced anyone good. Hell I think Merlin is still a better hand-to-hand fighter than Oliver.

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Manwhohaseverything

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Remember when folks thought Thea was what was wrong with this show? The last few shows she's been about the only thing right with it. It still has entertainment value for me, but this season has been a drop-off for sure.

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justicethorpsylocke

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- diamond tipped bullets....wow

- Thea was interesting

- Roy is getting to Laurel levels of weak. That showing where he missed the shots then couldn't even do acrobatics literally had my jaw dropped. I was really surprised that Laurel was the one getting scolded by Ollie when she's the one who saved Roy's ass.

-Nyssa is awesome

-the flashbacks suck.

- Ollie is getting on my nerves with his jealosy and complaining

2/5

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Deathstroke52

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#32  Edited By Deathstroke52

I was really feeling this episode.

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ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2

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I feel malcom and slade set the bar too high for the villians to follow, i don't mind this season but it has been incredibly poor compared to prior seasons, i'm still really pissed off that we found out about H.I.V.E killing diggles brother in season 2 yet no mention or follow up has ever happened you'd think with diggle helping out ollie in all his personal adventures ollie would be like "ummmm i guess we can find out why they killed your brother but let me try and bang both laurel and felicty first and go in a self destructive spiral when i fail and then lets shoot some teenage punks with arrows"

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the_stegman

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#34 the_stegman  Moderator

@lukehero said:

@the_stegman said:

This episode was unbelievably bland. No real plot, just typical melodrama. And I wish they would give this "Olicity'' crap a rest. Either put them together, or move on. I'm tired of Oliver getting jealous every time another guy talks to Felicity, but never making a move when she's single.

This episode is a 2 for me...barely.

Also, these China flashbacks are dull and time wasting. Just cut them out.

It was so, so bad. Diamond Tipped Bullets? I was like? Huh....

Ras doing work he could has just sent a henchmen to do? Why?

Sure we get Detective Lance is mad, but he's overacting. Your Daughter was living a dangerous life. She is gonna die violently, no duh. Don't you think they were concerned about your health?

@silverpool said:

The concept of the diamond bullets was so unbelievably dumb.

So...so stupid. So dumb.

Oh, yeah, the stuff I listed was only part of the problem. Like you said, Ra's dressing up like Arrow is grunt work, he could have had any of his henchmen do the same. Lance is overracting about no one telling him about Sara's death, they did it so he wouldn't f*cking die, seems like a good reason to me, but like I said before, every season has to have someone hate Oliver, season 1 it was Lance, then Laurel, then Tommy, season 2 it was Thea, then Laurel again, now it's Lance....again.

Don't get me started on this episode's throwaway villain, or how they're forcing Meryln to stay in the show despite the fact he has no reason to. Oh, he needs to heal. He can't do that at his own house, without supervision? Nope, gotta make him a regular. Now they're doing the same with Nyssa. The only way this is gonna end well is if she and Laurel make out or something.

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MICKEY-MOUSE

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@the_stegman: It would have made a lot more sense if Maseo was the one dressed up in the Arrow costume.

Lance is full of crap. Like most of these Arrows characters his morals are all over the place. There was one point and time where Lance basically told Arrow he needed to get back to killing bad guys. LOL, at his moral indignation about being a cop and following the law. GTFO.

They are force feeding us Meryln at this point now. Like, why hasn't Laurel bought a gun and just shoot him again? Why didn't Nyssa just sneak over Ollie's house and put an arrow in this guys head? Seriously, kill this guy and move on already.

At least Nyssa somewhat has a purpose now that she has a new GF and has a legit reason to dislike Ollie.

This show is on it's last legs. I'm like watching it because it ties into Flash and will tie into Teen Titans & Supergirl, both whom I am willing to give a chance. This show has got to improve next season and get things back in order like in season 2.

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k4tzm4n

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#36  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

@lukehero: The guy just found out he lost his daughter (death via connection to Arrow's world, as far as he knows), Arrow lied to him for god knows how long about it, and his other one is in constant danger because of Arrow. (Yes, she chooses to do this, but without Arrow, she'd still be in court.) So while his morals have fluctuated, I completely understand why he's taken such an anti-Arrow shift at this point.

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MICKEY-MOUSE

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#37  Edited By MICKEY-MOUSE

@k4tzm4n: It's too much of a shift too soon. Both of his daughters are grown women making their own choices. It's not like he is Batman recruiting little kids off the street. His daughter actually choose to go back to the league of Assassins. So Sarah wasn't really working for Ollie at the time of her death. Sure, be mad...but burn the friend bridge with a hero you know is trying to do good for the city. It's silly. Had he burned the bridge after this frame job Ras just made, then it would be believable that the accumulation of events pushed their relationship to the brink. It's as if the show always has to follow the pattern of one of the main cast members hates Ollie.

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sailorsriracha

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@supbatz said:

There were some horrible camera angles in this episode.

glad i wasn't the only one who felt that way- watching Roy fumble in the rafters was borderline painful. and then there was this seriously awkward shot of him kicking two guys back to back. took me right out of the scene.

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MICKEY-MOUSE

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@sailorsriracha: I honestly can't explain why not a single bullet hit Roy. I mean they had their guns pointed right at him and were shooting on spray mode. I was dumbfounded.

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k4tzm4n

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#40  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

@lukehero said:

@k4tzm4n: It's too much of a shift too soon. Both of his daughters are grown women making their own choices. It's not like he is Batman recruiting little kids off the street. His daughter actually choose to go back to the league of Assassins. So Sarah wasn't really working for Ollie at the time of her death. Sure, be mad...but burn the friend bridge with a hero you know is trying to do good for the city. It's silly. Had he burned the bridge after this frame job Ras just made, then it would be believable that the accumulation of events pushed their relationship to the brink. It's as if the show always has to follow the pattern of one of the main cast members hates Ollie.

Hopefully this doesn't come off as rude, but I feel like you're too emotionally disconnected from the guy and weighing his actions as a viewer instead of what his knowledge is limited to. Obviously his daughters make their own choices, but Arrow has played a huge role in their lives and all Quentin knows is Black Canary's dead and the only family he has plus the people thought he could trust have been blatantly lying to him about it. And not just lying to him, tricking him, too. He "talked" to his already dead daughter twice. This isn't something he can just forgive and forget. His only family left -- his daughter -- has been in on this and this on top of the news of Sara's death has to be devastating. A parent always wants to make sure their children are safe. It doesn't matter how old they are. The technicalities of Black Canary's death don't matter to him, this all connects to vigilantism and it has taken his daughter from him a second time and now the other embraces that world and puts herself at risk every day. He's not going to just go "She's an adult and makes her own choices. If she dies, she dies. That's on her." Quentin can believe that without Arrow, she would have never wanted to pursue this path. As for the cliffhanger, if Quentin didn't hate Oliver right now, Ollie can just say, "Someone is obviously framing me." Quentin would work with him to prove it. What disappoints me is how Oliver's friends did nothing to tell him all of the obvious ways he's helped the city and instead responded with basically, "FOR REAL, BRUH?" But yeah, I get why the writers are making Quentin hate Arrow. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, though?

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#41  Edited By GalacticFork
@jackcryan said:

So is Nyssa going to get together with Laurel? Does Nyssa have the secret power to turn anyone into a lesbian, because thats what its starting to feel like

You know... I hadn't seen the episode when I read your post, and I drew a line between it and the mention of the kiss in the review, so since you made your post and just a few minutes ago, I've been thinking Nyssa and Laurel were the ones who kissed.

Eh, I doubt they'll get together, but something even better will happen! Nyssa is going to train her! Maybe she'll grow into a real Canary. Also, I really like Nyssa's character, so it'll be cool if she has a bigger role in the next few episodes.

I know it's been said before... But why the heck did Ra's come to the city to mess with Oliver's rep? He has people for that!

On the bright side, we've now got a reason and motive for Ra's to somehow make an offer to Merlyn at some point to betray... everybody. They shoulda killed him or shunned him way before. Now he's wormed his way in.

Murmur is a way too coolly designed character to be so underutilized and all around stupid. They shoulda given him a better idea than the most pointlessly precious bullets ever and a better motivation than a cop done him wrong, then have him be a scary ominous villain a few episodes.

Laurel (other than the fight sequences), Nyssa (including the fight sequences), and Captain Lance (just in general) were the best parts of the episode. People don't direct their anger rationally when they're pissed and hurt. So I don't blame him. If the ending is any indication it's going to burn out fast and I bet he'll be the only cop who trusts Oliver during Ra's oh so brilliant and complex plan that only Ra's is capable of doing. I have aptly named it "Operation: Frame Oliver."

Hmmm Maybe they should ditch everybody else and make it a Laurel and Nyssa buddy vigilante show.

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k4tzm4n

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#42 k4tzm4n  Moderator

So is Nyssa going to get together with Laurel? Does Nyssa have the secret power to turn anyone into a lesbian, because thats what its starting to feel like

Say whaaaaaaaaaaaaa? I didn't get that vibe at all. The two are bonding over the loss of someone they both loved and the fact they're having issues with their fathers. In addition to that, Laurel offers the friendship and humanity Nyssa needs; Nyssa can train her. I viewed it as the two connecting and becoming friends, not like a Marvin Gaye song was playing in the background.

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MICKEY-MOUSE

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@k4tzm4n: Course it's not rude. :D I actually love it when people stand by their opinions. I enjoy interacting with you. Yes, we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I feel like the show is back tracking. We know Lance is going to find out Ollie is the Arrow and will hate him even more. So, we will almost be right back were we started at season 1 with their relationship: Sarah is dead & he blames Ollie. :/ We're basically going to go back to the idea that Lance is going to say "You know if you hadn't put my daughter on that boat, she would still be alive." This is old ground they are trying to rehash.

I understand he is in a lot of pain and is mad, but he can't see things from their point of view of why they didn't want to tell him? Plus it was Laurel's idea to lie IIRC, not Ollie's. I can't remember if she fully explained that to him, but if she didn't then she should have by now. It's like the show always needs to find a reason for one of the main cast members to hate Ollie. I think a slower decline in their relationship would have made much more sense.

As for the cliffhanger, if Quentin didn't hate Oliver right now, Ollie can just say, "Someone is obviously framing me." Quentin would work with him to prove it.

Or, he's mad at Arrow, so he's a bit distrusting and tells Arrow he can't investigate a crime he is the main suspect in. Then Ras Al Ghul pulls the strings to provide more incriminating evidence. I mean the fact is that season 1 Arrow did kill people. So, really the police should still be arresting Ollie for those crimes as well. I think they could have done a few more things to really progress the idea of Detective Lance fully hating Arrow/Ollie. Just my opinion.

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@k4tzm4n said:

@jackcryan said:

So is Nyssa going to get together with Laurel? Does Nyssa have the secret power to turn anyone into a lesbian, because thats what its starting to feel like

Say whaaaaaaaaaaaaa? I didn't get that vibe at all. The two are bonding over the loss of someone they both loved and the fact they're having issues with their fathers. In addition to that, Laurel offers the friendship and humanity Nyssa needs; Nyssa can train her. I viewed it as the two connecting and becoming friends, not like a Marvin Gaye song was playing in the background.

Yeah, plus there's the whole going after your dead ex's sister... Worse, your dead ex's straight sister. And even even worse because they're main bonding point is their mutual love of said dead person. So yeah, that can't end or even begin well on any level.

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#45  Edited By Dernman

This episode left me feeling flat about Arrow.

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NimaMindTricks

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This show sucks now

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Sachmoo

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I gotta tell ya, it is really tough to understand what Merlyns end game was when he came up with this whole plan. Because remember, all of this is because of HIM!

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Guardiandevil83

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@lukehero: I don't think people paid much attention to the episode. Firstly, Ra's only made the offer due to the prophecy: which is how he gained the title himself, and, because the Pit is losing its effects on him. Basically, he's just following tradition.

Second. Quintin doesn't care that Sara died a death due to the life she lived, he was pissed because two people he trusted more than anyone, one of which originally stood against everything he stood for lied in his face for months after he had just gotten back the person he thought he'd lost forever. Don't know if anyone paid attention but Quintin obviously doesn't deal well with loss.

How's about this? Some guy you never trusted becomes your closest friend, and let's just say as an example he's left to watch over your grandmother. Then she dies, only he doesn't tell you and just makes a hole in the ground, and puts her in it, then dresses someone up in her clothes for months.

Once you found out, would you be in anyway "compassionate" towards their guilt in the matter?

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The reasoning behind the offer was not bad. I didn't like the idea of Ras being so desperate to have him be his successor though.

Best thing about this episode is the Nyssa/Laurel thing Im going to start shipping.

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@guardiandevil83: If he had been saving my life and the city, yes. I think the grandma thing is a bad example though.

I don't think people paid much attention to the episode. Firstly, Ra's only made the offer due to the prophecy: which is how he gained the title himself, and, because the Pit is losing its effects on him. Basically, he's just following tradition.

As things stand with the offer, I get it. Prophecy blah blah. I'm actually over it and it's fine how it is. What the other stupid things in this episode such as Diamond Tipped Bullets? Thea wanting to hook up with Roy because she's upset about her evil father?

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