Arrow Episode #315 - "Nanda Parbat"

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Posted by k4tzm4n (41774 posts) - - Show Bio

*Yes, there's spoilers in here! Just to be safe, the important ones are covered in spoiler tabs.*

"My friends call me Dig. You shouldn't even speak to me."

Over the past few weeks,Arrow caught me and many others by surprise when it had so many characters do something shocking: open up and tell the truth. In a show that's full of lies, drama, and strong reactions, suddenly, a lot of the cast is acting way more reasonable than usual and characters who were once not all that great are now likable. Awesome, right? Even though this episode promotes Ra's al Ghul's role -- and don't worry, he does get plenty of focus -- much of this episode is a character study that aims to show us just how these people are handling so much pressure.

It's not very long, but I really enjoyed the brief conversation Ra's had with his daughter. It's a reminder that he doesn't care that Nyssa was in a same sex relationship; he cares because he was certain it would end with Sara breaking Nyssa's heart. So, when Malcolm tries to use this against Nyssa, you'd think she'd shrug it off or even laugh at the obvious attempt at messing with her, yet it still impacts her and I can't tell why. Something tells me she doesn't exactly view her father as deceitful. Still, the chance to see Ra's acting like father was interesting and I loved the other scenes with him. We get another reminder that yes, the dude is very old and the way he spoke with Malcolm Merlyn was perfect. "Face your death with honor. Or at least dignity." Matt Nable is killing it.

Can someone please tell me why Oliver needs to train with a sword when that's not even what he uses in his assault on Ra's fortress? I get he'd want to improve that skill -- especially since he was humiliated in his previous fight -- but when the skill gap is that great, you stick to what works, man! Pack some trick arrows and call it a day, dude. Then again, Oliver sure is stubborn.

Now that so much of the truth is out there, a lot of the characters are acting in a way more rational manner. The show gets a little too heavy at times, but many of the open conversations had me totally absorbed. There were so many heart-to-heart conversations and most of them were effectively handled. I can't help but love how reasonable and rational so many characters are being. Yes, some make some drastic or foolish decisions, but when you take a moment and wonder what's going on in their heads, the decisions are at least understandable. Thea's guilt is eating her up and we know how driven Laurel can be. (Who else was hoping she'd pull the canary cry device and not a gun?) Just about everyone got a proper amount of attention here. Yes, even Roy and Diggle! It was nice seeing the show give a lot of love and focus to so many different characters. When it comes to the one-on-one convos, my highlight was the one between Laurel and Nyssa. It was totally unexpected and surprisingly moving. Unfortunately, all of this makes Oliver less likable. The dude just comes off as a stubborn know-it-all and refuses to keep people even remotely in the loop or even meet them halfway. After all that he's been through with them and his latest experience, you'd think now more than ever he'd at least elaborate a bit. I understand why he's holding back to some degree -- anyone paying attention later on will get why -- but it's like he's not even trying to reassure the people he cares about or justify his actions to them at all. I understand he'd be embarrassed to say why, but shutting down and barking orders -- especially when there's so many great character-driven scenes -- makes the guy come off as an unlikable dictator. With Laurel, he doesn't focus on what they'll do once Ra's is no longer a threat. "We need Malcolm now, but.." Something like that could have made for a more meaningful conversation, but instead he blocks people out. And what's up with not even saying "I love you" to his sister before he leaves? Cold, man.

No Caption Provided

There's a lot of drama here and thankfully, there's a fair amount of action to help break up all of the heavier material just a bit. A couple of the matches didn't leave a strong impression (Malcolm fell way too easily; the Ollie/Nyssa one wasn't put together in a very exciting way), but the final action sequence was so good! It was so badass when Olier just casually picked up a flaming arrow that was shot at him and then fired it back right at the enemy. The whole sequence was simply shot well and spread out in a fun way. It's a little odd that these highly trained dudes are now jobbers, but whatever, it's not a big deal to me. The focus on stealth and projectiles was a nice change of pace from the hand-to-hand skirmishes we frequently see.

Laurel vs. Malcolm was an unexpected treat. Now, I say "unexpected" because I'm delighted they had Thea tell Laurel the truth so soon after she discovered it for herself. We all know they could have held onto that card for awhile, but instead they gave us some immediate payoff and I can't be the only one who's thrilled by Laurel's immediate reaction. Yes, her going after Malcolm by herself is foolish, but can you really blame her? After quite some time and so much pain, she finally knows who's responsible and, seeing as she's certain she can't win in a fair fight, she brought a little something extra. I wish that something extra was the sonic device, but hey, can't win 'em all. Overall, what they're doing with Laurel and even Thea continues to really win me over.

The past scenes didn't seem to add much to this episode. It still feels like they're slowly building towards a big reveal and a death. They telegraphed the death of Tatsu and Maseo's son awhile ago, so unfortunately, that'll probably make it less shocking if it happens.

Ray and Felicity are as charming as ever in this one (unless you don't like them, then you're out of luck for a few minutes). It's a nice escape from all of the overly dramatic and heavy material. Sure, we all saw a certain something coming a mile away and I won't go "ONLY ON CW!" about Ray walking around in a towel because, well, I'll blame that on him being so tired and out of it, but their scenes offered some good laughs and, despite being predictable, I still thought the big moment between them was handled well. Maybe I'm just a sap, but I enjoyed it. Unfortunately, the way the show is marketed took away from just how joyous the costume reveal and testing it could have been. A little tough to be blown away by that when it was revealed over a week ago.

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Totally blunt here: I don't like the ending. It's drawing way too strong of a parallel to Batman's story and the decision doesn't feel justified to me. I understand if Ra's thinks Oliver has potential, but to make that decision so soon didn't seem earned. I just don't buy Ra's having that much respect and praise for Oliver. Surprised and impressed by his return? Sure. Is that enough to say, "Yeah, I want you to one day take my place." No, I don't believe so. It's baffling why Oliver would even consider the option, too. The preview makes it seem like he's torn over the decision, but the guy has spent how long telling himself not to kill again? Answer: a long time. And it's no secret that the League of Assassins deals out justice in a way he isn't cool with. Maybe he thinks he can change that, but that seems silly because I can't imagine anyone there humoring the idea. Guess we'll just have to wait and see how the follow-up is handled.

Random thoughts: Who else wanted to scream "GO!" when one assassin made a run for it? Ollie and Diggle already established that no one can escape, so to have them stand around and say stuff like "if he gets to the fortress, we're dead" while this guy flees felt redundant and unnecessary. I'm guessing the nanites have a limited range? Otherwise, Oliver could have just used that to track him. Did anyone else catch Thea say she shot Sara in the chest with arrows? She didn't, it was the stomach. But maybe she didn't watch the video? Seems odd to be specific like that without knowing. All of these are small criticisms, but they stood out to me. Oh, and Boba Fett! Interesting they'd choose a character who's now owned by Marvel, but it was still a funny and completely unexpected name drop.

Here's the thing about Arrow: I have a lot of smaller criticisms (which I'm sure you're more than aware of by now), but that's because it's a show I'm passionate about and I do enjoy it a whole lot. We're spending so many hours of our lives watching this show and thinking about it, so we expect it to get better and better or at least consistently win us over. In the end, what I liked about "Nanda Parbat" leaves a stronger impression than what I believe didn't work. Most of the performances were solid, there's some satisfying drama, I'm loving Ra's al Ghul, and the final assault sequence was quite cool. When I reflect on this episode tomorrow, those are the things I'll probably be thinking about, not the mountain of minor criticisms I have about the show. Even though I'm not a fan of the ending, it would be premature to jump to conclusions and assume I know how it'll be handled or how some will react. Here's hoping they twist it in a way that feels more appropriate. All in all, I think this episode deserves 4-stars. I enjoyed it, but a lot of smaller things prevented me from really loving it.

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#1 Posted by NightFang3 (12364 posts) - - Show Bio

Please tell me their not doing what I think their doing with Ra's Al Ghoul?

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#2 Posted by ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2 (7566 posts) - - Show Bio

Solid episode,glad diggle getting some spotlight, laurels just plain stupid i pm still torn on wether i like her or not,flashbacks still basically pointless, btw did ollies morals go out the window in this one because it seemed to me at the end diggle and ollie were straight up killing them ninjas, ollie even shot one in the neck

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#3 Posted by k4tzm4n (41774 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: That's a good point about the killing. I was just assuming he (Ollie) was going brutal but still in a non-lethal way. I'd need to rewatch the ep but I thought the stealth stab may have been next to the neck?

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#4 Posted by AMajorDoubter (44 posts) - - Show Bio

I personally just can't care that it draws with Batman. Batman can go F himself. I'm just glad we really know where we're going for the rest of the season, so that's what I'm happy about.

The first set was to figure out who killed Sara, then the next was Team Arrow finding a way to go without Oliver, right? So the rest is this whole thing. So I'm cool with it.

Laurel and Thea are still doing excellent things, and the scene with Harper was pretty damn good. The Atom I don't feel one way or another, cause I don't really know how they're doing that just yet.

Still another solid episode though.

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#5 Posted by justice teen (895 posts) - - Show Bio

Love this episode. I want Sarah back, don't get why ra's is white, and I kinda want Felicity to die I just can't get over her annoyance, but she is too useful. All and all this show just prove you don't Batman or Superman to have a successful DC hero show.

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#6 Posted by ComicsBornAndBred (45 posts) - - Show Bio

What makes th e batman and ra's al ghul relationship sacred and special:

This adversarial relationship between Batman and Ra’s Al Ghul is analogous to the first super- villain/hero relationship, James Moriarty and Sherlock Holmes, found in the pages of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle’s immortal detective stories. Moriarty sought larger ends yet still remained obsessed with his arch-nemesis Sherlock Holmes. The relationship of Ra’s Al Ghul and Batman seems to have been formulated along the same path.Ra’s Al Ghul was the first of the Dark Knight’s extensive pantheon of villains to equal him on every levelIn giving Batman an equal antagonist, both in intelligence and physical prowess, and using the classic literary adversarial relationship as a guide, Dennis O’Neil and Neal Adams created the picture-perfect villain for the Dark Knight. A villain that transcends the typical crimes, often limited to Gotham, of Batman’s previous villains. A villain that challenges Batman’s vow to rid Gotham and the world of crime, as Batman’s victories over Ra’s are always simply curing one symptom of a wide spread disease. A villan that may be the best comic book antagonist DC Comics has ever produced.

It feels like they're shitting on that history. and the iron man ray thing...come on. That was weord. is like they're blatantly stealing from batman. They know what they're doing.

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#7 Posted by ComicsBornAndBred (45 posts) - - Show Bio

@justice_teen: it proves you need some iteration of their mythology, Batman's mythology in arrows' case, to succeed

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#8 Posted by the_stegman (40417 posts) - - Show Bio

Laurel gets her leather clad a** kicked every week.

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#9 Posted by nickzambuto (29288 posts) - - Show Bio

Solid episode,glad diggle getting some spotlight, laurels just plain stupid i pm still torn on wether i like her or not,flashbacks still basically pointless, btw did ollies morals go out the window in this one because it seemed to me at the end diggle and ollie were straight up killing them ninjas, ollie even shot one in the neck

I didn't even think about that, but you're right. If shooting a guy with a flaming arrow and watching him explode isn't risking death in Oliver's mind, then... I don't even know :P I guess rule of cool triumphs over logic, but hey I can't complain.

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#10 Posted by Gotham331 (516 posts) - - Show Bio

Greg I feel the exact same way! I hated that ending. The next Ras isn't Oliver's job. But I guess in a world without Batman....it's still terrible

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#11 Posted by Fallen_Crippled (6475 posts) - - Show Bio

It was a great episode, but that ending threw me off. It was so random and I don't care for it. I totally wouldn't mind if Ra's changes his mind in the next episode and decides to stay... himself. Otherwise, this episode did justice for everyone else. Laurel is becoming one of my favorites on the show. She has grown on me a lot recently. I was totally expecting a death this episode, though. There was this decent focus on Diggle throughout the episode and I was thinking "Please don't die." Glad he didn't. I also like that Nyssa showed some sort of appreciation that Laurel has become Canary. I also loved Ray and Felicity. Very excited to see Ray as The Atom!

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#12 Posted by dondave (41760 posts) - - Show Bio

How can Nysaa lose to on Ollie on different occasions but defeat Merlyn?

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#13 Edited by k4tzm4n (41774 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:
@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2 said:

Solid episode,glad diggle getting some spotlight, laurels just plain stupid i pm still torn on wether i like her or not,flashbacks still basically pointless, btw did ollies morals go out the window in this one because it seemed to me at the end diggle and ollie were straight up killing them ninjas, ollie even shot one in the neck

I didn't even think about that, but you're right. If shooting a guy with a flaming arrow and watching him explode isn't risking death in Oliver's mind, then... I don't even know :P I guess rule of cool triumphs over logic, but hey I can't complain.

Hey now, that guy technically stopped, dropped, and rolled ;)

@gotham331 said:

Greg I feel the exact same way! I hated that ending. The next Ras isn't Oliver's job. But I guess in a world without Batman....it's still terrible

Yeah, it's not a good first impression. Maybe the follow-up will make up for it, though.

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#14 Posted by Dernman (26460 posts) - - Show Bio

Are there still people who say Arrow isn't ripping off Batman?

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#15 Edited by dan12456 (3006 posts) - - Show Bio

I really loved this episode. I agree all the supporting cast was very reasonable about all these revelations (Ollie's actions didn't bother me there as I think he was lying to himself about his real reason to go to Nanda Parbat and he did explain the whole Thea's soul thing.) I also really liked the Felicity-Ray stuff for pretty much the first time ever! (Although the whole sex-revelation thing was a little much)

In terms of the ending I know some people will be bothered but I'm ok with it. A defining trait of Ra's for me is his quest to find an heir. And in the comics he has asked several people other than Batman (Tim Drake and Dick Grayson according to my friend) so it makes sense in an alternate universe where Batman doesn't exist he would ask someone else. And he mentioned that most don't last as long as Oliver did in their fight, and I think he is impressed by Oliver's perseverance and honour. That said, while I think the storyline makes sense and I plan to fully enjoy it after this moment, I do think it would have made more sense for the show to go a completely different route for this season's arc. I get why they did it (Ra's is a big name and brings in viewers, plus he has logical connections to the universe) but I would've preferred a season arc around say Brick, or a better Vertigo or something. But since this is the story we got I'm gonna enjoy myself watching it.

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#16 Posted by buttersdaman000 (23224 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn, I forgot this was on tonight....now I have to watch it online...bleh

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#17 Posted by mak13131313 (1601 posts) - - Show Bio

Excellent episode! But, I'm with you on the whole Ra's wanting Oliver to take over for him. That's straight up ripping off Batman.

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#18 Posted by Rixec (463 posts) - - Show Bio

I actually like that Ra's wants Ollie to take his place. Besides, not like we're gonna get Batman actually appearing on the show other than Easter eggs.

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#19 Posted by SupBatz (2186 posts) - - Show Bio

Oliver's an idiot. His motivation for saving Merlyn is ridiculous. I wish that they'd justified his trip to Nanda Parbat, at least in part, to saving Maseo. That would at least have made him seem like less of an irrational idiot.

Nyssa, Felicity, and Ray were the highlights of this episode for me. All were very on-point. Laurel to a lesser extent, but I wasn't really feeling her conflict with Oliver, her attacking Merlyn (which, while it make sense, seems like the lazy/predictable choice from a writing standpoint), or her reaction to Thea's reveal.

Diggle was pretty good, but not featured as prominently as he could have been. Especially to make up for his lack of a presence this season.

I'm not a fan of Thea's direction this episode. I completely support her telling Laurel the truth (though I think the scene in which it occurred went by WAY too quickly and with Laurel understanding WAY too easily), but she jumped all over the place after that. Her regretting turning Malcolm over seemed to come too quickly, and comes across as cliche. Same goes to Roy's plot this episode, which started off strong but didn't take us anywhere original.

I agree with the review that Oliver definitely hasn't earned the right to be Ra's heir. That was out-of-the-blue. I had big hopes for the cliffhanger, and feel let down.

All-in-all, this episode disappointed me. I'm tired of the dime-a-dollar, "Killing makes you lose your soul" stuff. Arrow has done that idea to death now (pun intended) and hasn't really brought much to the table. I am baffled by Oliver's going to save Malcolm and Thea's abrupt decision to basically commit suicide.

5/10. I hope the next episode is better. It's a shame, given how fantastic last week was.

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#20 Posted by vinomonster (5566 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a good episode of Batman Lite, I like it.

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#21 Edited by Lurkero (507 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with all the criticisms in the article. It truly seems like the writers are intentionally making Oliver less likable while all other characters are MORE likable. The fact that everyone has shared their secrets make the drama feel more realistic rather than the contrived drama that came from Oliver and Thea keeping unnecessary secrets.

Laurels confrontation with Nyssa, Thea, and Merlyn were all good. It is understandable that Laurel wouldn't make rational decisions in a moment like that. She's been deeply hurt TWICE about her sister's death. That's a lot to take, especially if you find out it was all because of some jerk who likes playing mind games and use other people to get ahead in life.

Nyssa is the highlight of the episode for me, but that is because Nyssa is the highlight of every episode she is in. I am disappointed that she was tricked into getting emotional over Merlyn's words, but the writers quickly nipped that with Ra's conversation with her. I am also insulted that Ra's would see Oliver as an heir and overlook Nyssa, his own daughter. Oliver has proven himself to be a whiny, inconsistent, wimp who doesn't know when things need to get DONE. Nyssa, on the other hand, has respect and compassion for others, but also knows when it is time for people to go. After all Oliver's talk about not killing again he was "killing" fighters just a couple scenes later! It's annoying.

"...but the final action sequence was so good! It was so badass when Olier just casually picked up a flaming arrow that was shot at him and then fired it back right at the enemy."

Oddly worded sentence. I'm guessing those are typos.

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#22 Posted by GalacticFork (468 posts) - - Show Bio

I probably shouldn't have read this before I can see the show in the morning. But eh. Only thing is that now I'm preemptively disappointed in Laurel's choice in "equalizer". Be the Canary!!

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#23 Posted by Ace_56 (5 posts) - - Show Bio

@vinomonster: Go watch your Batman "hard" then (Gotham) ¬¬

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#24 Posted by Wowlock (907 posts) - - Show Bio

Thats why a Batman should be in this universe since Oliver is not even in the same league of Ra's... So that Ra's thinking of him for replacement would make his ''wise'' nature look , to be blunt , stupid.

Oliver is not Batman even if this series might try to make him to be. Let him be his own and not a low-grade Batman.

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#25 Edited by ImMadNice (1416 posts) - - Show Bio

I am a huge arrow fan but this show lost so much mojo after the episode Ollie died. You kill the main character everyone loves and he is brought back by....a drink of herbs. Felt like a stab in the back. I guess no one should ever die in this show just always carry around some herbal tea. Stabbed through the heart and kicked down a mountain!? No match for some herbal tea. Writers had us right where they wanted us and brought back arrow the very next episode with a nice drink of tea. Cool. Throw him in the Lazarus pit that's what we all wanted. Felicity was barely even excited when Ollie returned. Laurel is annoying and would not already be that good of a fighter after three weeks of boxing lessons. I remember when the flash started up and I thought it could never compete with arrow, but the flash has been amazing week after week as arrow continues to stumble. This week was a step up at least

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#26 Posted by MICKEY-MOUSE (36983 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

How can Nysaa lose to on Ollie on different occasions but defeat Merlyn?

Meryln schools Thea and Ollie at the same time during sparring...loses to Nyssa. Da Fuq????

Solid episode,glad diggle getting some spotlight, laurels just plain stupid i pm still torn on wether i like her or not,flashbacks still basically pointless, btw did ollies morals go out the window in this one because it seemed to me at the end diggle and ollie were straight up killing them ninjas, ollie even shot one in the neck

Shooting people in the mid section(Diggle) and shooting people in the neck(Ollie)....if that isn't killing? Then WTF?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm still watching the show, but the Atom suit is currently now a rip off of Iron Man & Arrow continues to Rip Off Batman. Since now this whole Ollie being offered to take Ras's place thing is in the mix now. I would actually like for him to be different from Batman and actually take the deal. Let him be the new Ras for the rest of this season and then realize the downsides in season 4.

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#27 Edited by MrMazz (2002 posts) - - Show Bio

On the most recent ep of Thought Bubbles, Da7e Gonzales talked about how The Flash willingness to just go for the comic book crap realy gave it just this glee and energy. I've me kind of appathetic in Season 3 of Arrow there have been some stand out episodes but I could probably critical path it through this and cut half of the show. I'd assumed that it was lacking a strong operational theme for the season and think that is influnced to a degree. However, Arrow Season 2 was at its best when it straight up went for it and did Deathstroke really really well. It was clearly Deathstroke but it was their interpertation of Deathstroke. Same goes for The Count Vertigo I. "Nanda Parbat" just goes for it both in interesting character paring/interactions and in just straight up comic book crap. This episode had a much needed and appreciated energy.

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#28 Posted by nateb1211 (253 posts) - - Show Bio

First I just want to say that I have no problem with them wanting to make the show more Batman-like. However the whole ending of Ra's wanting Oliver to take his place was just an insult to not the character of Batman, but his history.

What makes th e batman and ra's al ghul relationship sacred and special:

This adversarial relationship between Batman and Ra’s Al Ghul is analogous to the first super- villain/hero relationship, James Moriarty and Sherlock Holmes, found in the pages of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle’s immortal detective stories. Moriarty sought larger ends yet still remained obsessed with his arch-nemesis Sherlock Holmes. The relationship of Ra’s Al Ghul and Batman seems to have been formulated along the same path.Ra’s Al Ghul was the first of the Dark Knight’s extensive pantheon of villains to equal him on every levelIn giving Batman an equal antagonist, both in intelligence and physical prowess, and using the classic literary adversarial relationship as a guide, Dennis O’Neil and Neal Adams created the picture-perfect villain for the Dark Knight. A villain that transcends the typical crimes, often limited to Gotham, of Batman’s previous villains. A villain that challenges Batman’s vow to rid Gotham and the world of crime, as Batman’s victories over Ra’s are always simply curing one symptom of a wide spread disease. A villan that may be the best comic book antagonist DC Comics has ever produced.

It feels like they're shitting on that history. and the iron man ray thing...come on. That was weord. is like they're blatantly stealing from batman. They know what they're doing.

Nailed it. Ra'a al Ghul may not be as recognizable as some of Batman's other rogue's, but he is definitely one of the most, if not the most interesting villain he has. The end of this episode was, to me, them giving us Batman fans the middle finger and disrespecting Batman's history.

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#29 Posted by RasenchidoriX8 (3 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: This whole episode Ollie was different, and Ra Sha Goul has him pretty shooked and stressed so it could be something developing since his return. But the whole Slade thing about not killing him contrary to that. Overall what im trying to say is that although his change in morals might have been rushed and this is one step to seeing Ollie becoming more susceptible to Ra's idealogy or plans. Ever since he told Thea things have progressively extremely overwhelming on him and you see him become more conflicted and at the same time wanting to be clear minded and have precise plans...basically although he thinks he is all together he really has become more broken ironically. Also does anyone remember those drawings released of Ollie walking out of the Lazarus Pit? I have so many thoughts its hard to put them together when you have a test in 7 hours LOOOL!

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#31 Posted by MICKEY-MOUSE (36983 posts) - - Show Bio


You know I'm not remotely joking when I say this. I could see Ollie taking the position as the new Ras & then be attacked by Bane in season 4 who feels like he should be the true successor.

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#32 Posted by GreenLanternDeadpool (182 posts) - - Show Bio

This show is slowly starting to lose me with the crappy forced romances, half-a$$ed writing, and the "poor man's" Batman stint they got going on. Pretty much this and AoS have done a 180 for me, AoS being my favorite now.

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#33 Edited by UltimateSMfan (2377 posts) - - Show Bio

This episode was fine, this show is good. There are sometimes i'll let it go but man oh man you have two totally original characters and can't help but make them exact analogues of superman and batman or rather iron man and batman, it's cringe worthy..smh!!

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#34 Posted by NimaMindTricks (4684 posts) - - Show Bio

@lukehero said:

You know I'm not remotely joking when I say this. I could see Ollie taking the position as the new Ras & then be attacked by Bane in season 4 who feels like he should be the true successor.

Bane Bane?! Like legit Bane? That would be cool. I find it ridiculous that Flash creators were allegedly fighting to have Bane on their show. That would be beyond silly.

This show has been ok this season...I am not remotely interested in the Flashbacks.

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#35 Posted by Kyle_Dornez (329 posts) - - Show Bio

A little sad that ATOM suit is an Iron Man ripoff after all... Still was the better part of the episode.

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#36 Posted by the_stegman (40417 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the word "ripoff" has been used a million times in this comment section alone, lol.

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#37 Posted by Techherofan (110 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm surprise no one making a Star Wars reference seeing as Ra's trying to lure Ollie to the Dark Side.The Dark Knight lite is truly what Green Arrow was until they made him over as an extreme left wing so maybe in season to come we'll see such a change in Ollie's demeanor.After all this plot twist has the potential to bring such a change in Ollie's character whether to be a man of the people he's sworn to protect or oppress them through fear and violence

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#38 Edited by MAZAHS117 (13605 posts) - - Show Bio

Ra's wants Ollie to be the "next Ra's"?

...... -__-...

...wtf are they doing?

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#39 Posted by deactivated-5d3f071d30d9f (5172 posts) - - Show Bio

It was solid episode

but i have 4 negative points

1- Flashback was kind weak to the plot

2- Arrow crossing the line of Batman again

3- I wouldnt be suprised if they only changed Blue Bettle and Ted Kord to The Atom and Ray Palmer in script. There is lot shades of Ted Kord.

4- Black Canary getting her ass kicked again.

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#40 Posted by littleemp (4 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm normally cool with what Flash, Arrow, Gotham, and Agents of Shield are doing, but Batman mythos is a big no no for me (especially when they are replacing him with a B lister like Green Arrow).

Oliver Queen breaking into Nanda Parbat by force? Really? That's only something that takes either a small army or Batman with a lot of expensive toys. The worst part was the ending, I mean, Oliver can barely beat Deathstroke on his better days and he's suddenly good enough to impress Ra's?

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#41 Posted by littleemp (4 posts) - - Show Bio

@wowlock: it doesn't even have to be "Batman" by name. Just a shadowy, mysterious cloaked figure who equals/bests Ra's in combat and referred to as "The Detective".

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#42 Posted by AwesomePerson (2767 posts) - - Show Bio

The flashbacks are not at all interesting this season...

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#43 Posted by ComicsBornAndBred (45 posts) - - Show Bio

You have to be in the same league as Ra's o take his place. Ollie got his ass kicked. Batman is the only one who's ever defeat Ra's. Ollie doesn't even have the years of training Batman or Ra's has had. 5 years of being trained by random special forces guys and Maseo isn't enough. I like the show, but the Batman Ra's relationship is sacred and special for a reason. It's like Holmes and Moriarty. nothing has been justified or proven that Ollie is worthy. Why, because he cheated death? He did that with Maseo and his wife's help.

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#44 Posted by dagmar_merrill (12701 posts) - - Show Bio

Nanda Parbat? Is that Latin? No clue what Nanda means but Parabat means He was preparing? He was prepared? (Disclosure-Im not that good at Latin)

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#45 Posted by DrF8 (3309 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah

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#48 Posted by JewishDork (498 posts) - - Show Bio

Oliver being offered to become heir to the League of Assassins reminds me of Ed Brubaker's final Daredevil arc where Matt is offered to be head of the the Hand. Probably thinks he can change the organization from the inside out and use its resources to do a lot of good.

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#50 Posted by Jbourne_32 (2224 posts) - - Show Bio

Gah this is terrible. I thought there was hope for Ra's as a villain but this episode has thoroughly disappointed me. There is literally no conflict anymore...

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