Arrow Episode #312 - "Uprising"

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GalacticFork

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#51  Edited By GalacticFork
@theacidskull said:

In what way could Merlyn betray them? Malcolms motives are pretty much clear. He wants to kill brick, and they need all the help they could get. My point is, they had a common goal, so Malcolm had no incentive to pull his regular bullsh*t. All the team had to do, is stop Merlyn before delivering the final blow. And lets say they fail to stop him from killing Brick, is that really that bad given the circumstances? The man's a nut who, as was made clear, does anything for his own power, why not USE Merlyn for help and betray him? Is our feelings, though just, against a guy so important that we should sacrifice the whole city for it? I get it, and in their position I'd despise the idea, but I'd do it because the people would benefit from it.


Oh, Oops, I was mainly talking about the second part, with Oliver training with Merlyn. This has horrible idea written all over it. I'm on the fence about using him to kill Brick. The whole transition from season 1 to 2 was about going from a killer to a umm "wounder" I guess. Using Merlyn to kill Brick seems like a step back. I can see why they voted, but also I think it'd have been interesting if they'd used him to do it, and then have Oliver return right after. (Especially since using Merlyn to kill Brick mirrors Merlyn's history of using Thea to kill Sara and Oliver to kill Ra's (which went awesome)).

Actually storywise, that'd be a pretty cool way to go. Morally what they chose is fitting into the theme of the show.

(Still does anybody believe Merlyn's going to be all faithful teacher to Oliver through all this?)

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hyperman

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@galacticfork: Finally someone who thinks the way i do

"I'm really not cool with Oliver's magical healing. Especially contrasted with Sara's death. And I was already stinging from the fact that Thea, heavily drugged, and with only a few months training, was able to sneak up on Sara and kill her"

Ras put a sword right through his chest and fell down from a steep ravine , come one he must have broken cranium and some other bones, and even so he survived!!?????

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GodOfMischief

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I asked the same thing about Detective Lance figuring out Roy's identity. How can he also not recognise anyone else? Even in costume Oliver is still very recognisable by just his face alone. I also can't believe that Felicity was more annoying that Laurel - that takes serious skill.

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Vascillator

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Now I dont expect the most realistic stories from a superhero series, but some of the recent logic leaps really make it hard to take this show serious.

Although I completely love Arsenal and Canary as team, I think I wouldnt even need Olliver back.

And yes Felicity is extremely annoying (never actually liked her), Thea must be the dumbest person on the planet, and Lance got some very selective observational skills.

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Pelykan

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#56  Edited By Pelykan

First of all Brick apparently has a mob ready to go wherever he is. Second this mob was armed with assault rifles and they chose to use them like clubs instead.

Then Merlyn didn't kill Brick all sobbing that Thea would never forgive him even though she seemingly has forgiven him for everything else including the massacre in the Glades.

And I still want to know more about the miracle cure they used on Oliver. I googled some anatomy and the spot he was stabbed in should have been a stab through his liver and/or lung, that combined with a drop that should have broken a lot of bones is not something you can survive, not with some penicilline tea anyway.

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Mrnoital

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yeah, I felt weird about Lance noticing Roy no problem

but for Ollie there was that time in season 1 when he did suspect him, but Ollie was at a party while Green Arrow (Diggle) was seen stopping a crime

he doesn't really have an excuse for the Sarah/Laurel thing though

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the_stegman

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#58 the_stegman  Moderator

@theacidskull:

Completely agree with your points. Felicity is acting way too dramatic. It's like the show NEEDS someone to be pissed at Ollie at all times, whether it's Laurel, Thea, Laurel again, Tommy and now, Felicity. Waaaay too much forced drama.

I understand Malcolm is a d*ck, but he's the lesser of two d*cks. Let him kill Brick and save the Glades

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The_Thaumaturge

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I liked Felicity in this episode.

  • She rekt Oliver like an absolute BOSS, signalling an end to an irritating romantic arc and also allowing for the advancement of the A.T.O.M. project, which I desperately need to see.
  • IMO, she was the only one talking sense concerning Merlyn - has team Arrow forgotten the way he manipulated one of their friends to kill another one of their friends, and then manipulated a third friend to take the fall for his crime?? And committed mass genocide? They should be hunting him down to kill him, or at the very least leave him severely physically disabled. Certainly, they shouldn't be working with him.

Concerning next week's episode, they have basically turned the Count from the Joker into the Scarecrow. It's past time he got his own damn identity.

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Black_Arrow

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From the looks of the next preview (a Canadian preview): Oliver shows Thea the Arrow cave (YES)

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deactivated-59c716930b8a6

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Let the hatred flow through you Viners...

If only you knew the power of the dark side, DM.

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Oscars94

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#63  Edited By Oscars94

How come a bullet to the head didn't stop Brick, yet Malcolm and Ollie took him down with melee attacks? I enjoyed the episode but I think the writers need to stop making one of Team Arrow unlike-able. I just warmed up to Laurel and then they make Felicity annoying. Come on! Overall I'm still loving this series.

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amazing_webhead

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Sure, Ollie's return was a little rushed, but you have to admit, it was EPIC!!!

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The_Kidd

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Plus:

-I kind of understand Felicity’s point of view because what she said about Oliver was on point but I don’t see why she didn't expect the team up since it is in Oliver nature to make ridiculously stupid decision. Also the fact Oliver have not kill or at least tried to subdue Merlyn in some form is Bullsh*t.

-I actually thought this week of Arrow was more entertaining (but not necessarily better) than The Flash.

-I love how these shows reference each other:

"You're that red streak I've been hearing about in the TV?"

"Wrong city"

Negatives:

-Laurel massive improvement in competence was irritating.

-Wildcat was beating Brick then he just started getting trampled, WTF?

-Merlyn Heel-Face turn, I knew as soon as they revived Merlyn last season they would eventually fu*k up the character.

-This is still a mediocre season and its not looking like it is going to get better because next week looks like Laurel version of this season opener, which was also a mediocre episode.

@lurkero said:

This episode serves as a great highlight for all the things that make vigilante stories fall apart:

  • People should always be able to recognize characters they see all the time
  • The writers can't have it both ways and keep the story believable. Sin and Wildcat immediately recognized that Black Canary wasn't Sara, Lance didn't.
  • Killing is not something to be afraid of when innocent lives are in danger.
  • Violent criminals were quick to shoot in one scene, but ran up to fight in the next. It's a convenient way to disguise the TRUE degree of the threat being posed to the heroes.
  • There isn't "another way" of dealing with extremely violent criminals. Felicity keeps talking about how "there is another way", but she offers no solutions.
  • Wildcat is a trained fighter and he lost to Brick quite easily. They never established what the heck Brick is and I didn't like that scene.
  • Merlyn may have done bad things in the past, but his tactic for handling the current situation was appropriate. They keep focusing on Merlyn's character and not his logic.
  • When people kill in self defense...it's bad? What about police officers?
  • Heroes being near dead and somehow returning stronger than everyone else. Nope.
  • Oliver and Arrow return at the same time...and yet...seriously Thea!?

That being said, there isn't much better on TV so I will just have to keep watching Arrow even though the logic is falling apart.

Completely agreed with everything said here.

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AlKusanagi

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The writers are brilliant. They're making Felicity so unlikable now that we are starting to forget how terrible Laurel is.

They should go work for the WWE.

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VanderSEXXX

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Can't believe I'm saying this, but Felicity is the most annoying character right now. Who gives a crap about morality?? A man is holding a part of the city hostage, and you refuse Merlyn's help because you don't like the guy??

And will they, PLEASE give the Olicity stuff a break???

Lastly, how dumb is Thea that she still can't figure out her brother is the Arrow, especially since they keep disappearing and reappearing at the same time.

I've been afraid to say these sentiments but I applaud your bravery to express this as I share the same sentiment towards this season as of now.

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hyperman

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While everyone starts hating Felicity , I start hating Oliver with his I-don't-wanna-kill-one attitude.

Felicity is absolutely right. How can Oliver possibly be protecting the man that turned his sister into a murderer and killed the woman he loved ???

How can Oliver still lie to Thea about him being Arrow?

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GalacticFork

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#69  Edited By GalacticFork

The only thing I can say about Lance's recognition of Roy was that he didn't simply recognize him in costume. He had past knowledge of Roy's obsession with red hoodies following the arrow like a puppy. So suddenly there's a dude in a red hoody going around as the Arrow's sidekick... Not surprising his first thought is Roy, even without seeing his face. Now what past experience does he have for the Canary not being Sara, or Laurel masquerading as her? None.

Now, why he isn't more bothered by Sara never coming out of the shadows when he's around is a different story. I think he should be much more suspicious that something's up, but I don't think he's been in a position to recognize her.

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MICKEY-MOUSE

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Kill Felecity, lol. She's become the new Laurel and Luarel has taken some meds and chilled out. I wanted to slap the **** out of Felecity harder than a Ray Rice video clip.

Seriously though, why do male TV writers seem to write white females as being annoying whinny ungrateful ******, instead of strong, helpful, impowered women?

It's the same shtick they pulled with Ricks Wife in walking dead and The wife in Breaking Bad. It's like the female can't just voice her opinion and sound strong and intelligent. No, she must voice her complaints in the most whinny b****y way they can possibly come up with. *__*

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Lurkero

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#71  Edited By Lurkero

@galacticfork: If Sin can notice that it is not Sara in costume, Lance should be able to. Although, I don't think Sin knows that Roy is Arsenal so the writing is all over the place on this stuff.

It's really bad directing in my opinion.

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Swampman

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@jackcryan: Exactly! I was so confused cause they had like two or three different teaser posters of Oliver rising from the Lazarus Pit and I was so excited to see it and all we got was him waking up.

I'm sorry, but when you promise the Lazarus Pit, you need to show it.

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sentryman555

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I never really understood the "Killing the bad guys, makes us like them" Line of thinking. In actuality it really doesn't. The bad guys do bad things because they are selfish and evil. If I kill a bad guy, am I truly becoming one?

Joker has the highest body count of any villain in the DC universe.... Is batman somehow a better person because he refuses to kill him? I personally don't think so. Because after your refusal to deal with the problem every thing that bad guy does in the future is blood on your hands anyway. People say Joker has the highest body count. I say Batman shares the achievement.

People would hate it if I was a superhero in the DC universe. Joker would have been dead AGES ago. Every villain that was undeniably evil and everyone knew it. I'd take every single one of them out. And At the end of my quest. I'd lie down. And feel like I just made the world a far better place

I think it's more "The ends justify the means" line of thinking that worries heroes. The whole thinking is no one should have the right to kill another person. It would start with the joker, then the rest of his rogue's gallery, then petty criminals, and eventually just people he doesn't like. No one should be able to make that choice themselves. That's why theirs a court justice system.

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Guardiandevil83

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@swampman: Actually. Those posters were fan made

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sentryman555

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@galacticfork said:
@theacidskull said:

In what way could Merlyn betray them? Malcolms motives are pretty much clear. He wants to kill brick, and they need all the help they could get. My point is, they had a common goal, so Malcolm had no incentive to pull his regular bullsh*t. All the team had to do, is stop Merlyn before delivering the final blow. And lets say they fail to stop him from killing Brick, is that really that bad given the circumstances? The man's a nut who, as was made clear, does anything for his own power, why not USE Merlyn for help and betray him? Is our feelings, though just, against a guy so important that we should sacrifice the whole city for it? I get it, and in their position I'd despise the idea, but I'd do it because the people would benefit from it.


Oh, Oops, I was mainly talking about the second part, with Oliver training with Merlyn. This has horrible idea written all over it. I'm on the fence about using him to kill Brick. The whole transition from season 1 to 2 was about going from a killer to a umm "wounder" I guess. Using Merlyn to kill Brick seems like a step back. I can see why they voted, but also I think it'd have been interesting if they'd used him to do it, and then have Oliver return right after. (Especially since using Merlyn to kill Brick mirrors Merlyn's history of using Thea to kill Sara and Oliver to kill Ra's.

Actually storywise, that'd be a pretty cool way to go. Morally it's fitting into the theme of the show.

(Still does anybody believe Merlyn's going to be all faithful teacher to Oliver through all this?)

Given that they are turning him into an anti-hero, yes, I think he'll be faithful, until thea learns the truth and he loses hope again.

Also, Merlyn has already stated he needs Oliver to kill Ras because at this point Oliver's death means his own.

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Deranged Midget

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@deranged_midget said:

Let the hatred flow through you Viners...

If only you knew the power of the dark side, DM.

I CANNOT GOOD SIR! I MUST ABIDE BY THE LIGHT!

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GalacticFork

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#77  Edited By GalacticFork
@sentryman555 said:

Also, Merlyn has already stated he needs Oliver to kill Ras because at this point Oliver's death means his own.

Yeah, for now... The instant a better option comes along, he'll throw Oliver under the bus (possibly literally). But, they might be going the anti-hero rout with the sob story thrown in this episode. Still. I say by episode 20, he betrays them.

@lurkero said:

@galacticfork: If Sin can notice that it is not Sara in costume, Lance should be able to. Although, I don't think Sin knows that Roy is Arsenal so the writing is all over the place on this stuff.

It's really bad directing in my opinion.

Lance hasn't seen her up close, she keeps to the dark. Sin is right there 10 feet away in that picture above. And that mask hardly covers her face enough not to be recognizable when she's 10 feet away lit up by street lights.

Now... that said. How useless are those masks? Superhero masks are so often the worst. There was that bit in another article where John Stewart wouldn't wear the same mask Hal Jordan wears as the green lantern. But does that mask protect Hal Jordan's identity at all? It even molds to his face.

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deactivated-5a4aaebccd120

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There's three things that keep this show afloat. The great actors who respect the characters and what they represent, the great comic fans who do too, and the directors who bring it all together from behind the camera.

The writers play almost no role but to follow what those three bring to the table and give in the way of massive amounts of input and vision. What the writers do is input weak, forced, or out of sync with events or promotions.

Fake ass lazarus pit promo poster... *spits on it*

Look at season 1 of arrow, when the writers were allowed to do what they wanted, the show was straight up a wheel of pre-packaged cheese rolling downhill. Some things were good about it, others were so flat and borderline sitcom. It was the input from the actors and fans that brought it up in season two and three.

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NimaMindTricks

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amazing_webhead

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@devil_driver: @snape: @galacticfork: @theacidskull: @supbatz anyone get why Merlyn had Thea kill Sara and why she seemed mind controlled?

Well, because she WAS mind-controlled. Malcolm drugged her. It was part of his plan. The League would have Thea executed if they knew, even if they knew she was mind controlled. So Malcolm told Oliver he had to go claim he killed Sara and challenge Ra's al Ghul to a trial by combat, or else he'd tell the League that Thea did it. If Oliver won, Malcolm is off the hook for the Undertaking. If Ra's won, Malcolm finally gets Oliver out of his hair.

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NimaMindTricks

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@amazingwebhead: I'm sorry. I don't get WHY Malcolm did it in the first place. What was his motive? Especially when he knew it would incur the League's wrath?

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amazing_webhead

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@amazingwebhead: I'm sorry. I don't get WHY Malcolm did it in the first place. What was his motive? Especially when he knew it would incur the League's wrath?

The League was hunting him because the Undertaking violated their code of honor. If Oliver won and killed Ra's, his death would mean all vendettas with his bloodline are gone, so Malcolm gets off scot-free. If not, at least his arch-nemesis the Arrow is killed.

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GalacticFork

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#83  Edited By GalacticFork

@nimamindtricks said:

@amazingwebhead: I'm sorry. I don't get WHY Malcolm did it in the first place. What was his motive? Especially when he knew it would incur the League's wrath?

He was already on their hit list for doing the undertaking without permission. He wants to get rid of Ra's, so wanted to use Oliver to do it. Sooooo he drugged Thea to kill Sara so Oliver would feel obligated to claim he did it to defend Thea's life and challenge Ra's. It succeeded! Except for the whole failing miserably thing.

Wow that's really convoluted when you actually explain it.

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NimaMindTricks

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@amazingwebhead: @galacticfork: the fact the plan was useless and the League is coming to annihilate anyway makes the whole thing really convoluted and not really well thought out.

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amazing_webhead

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@amazingwebhead: @galacticfork: the fact the plan was useless and the League is coming to annihilate anyway makes the whole thing really convoluted and not really well thought out.

Again, the death of Ra's means all vendettas with his bloodline are forgotten

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The Impersonator

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#86  Edited By The Impersonator

Where was Ray Palmer? He appeared in the last two episodes of The Brick story arc. Not this one?

I find it hard to believe that Oliver survive the stabbing wound and the fall. Maseo mentioned Oliver being brought back to life, which means Oliver was dead. Otherwise, he wouldn't have said it. Or is that another way of saying being brought back to life after unconsciousness?

How did Sin know that the Black Canary wasn't Sara? Is it because Laurel didn't reply to her when Sin called her? Did Sin notice her slightly, changed appearance?

The idea of Detective Lance recognizing the Arsenal's true identity made me laugh.

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Owie

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I agree with pretty much all the problems listed in the review. I was especially annoyed that Arsenal hardly used his bow, even at a distance. And this whole "are we for or against killing" thing is so old. They switch back and forth every other episode.

The only thing I don't have as much of a problem with is that I think Oliver did actually die, and Katana brought him back to life somehow. Which admittedly they could have spelled out more.

Glad Sin is back, and that she knows Laurel isn't Sara. It's honestly kind of freaky that they have been stringing the Captain along all this time, making him think she's alive.

And yes, how can the captain not realize Oliver is Arrow when he knows Arrow's entire team is Oliver's friends?

And they had better pull that mayor out of office immediately, that was nonsense that she'd give up an area of town like that.

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PenguinDust

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#88  Edited By PenguinDust

What I couldn't figure out is in the showdown where all the hoods stood at one end of the street facing off with the townfolk, why didn't they just gun them all down. The hoods had guns, but it turned into a brawl. I saw a movie over the weekend called Ichi. In it, the same sequence plays out, but since it took place a 150 plus years ago and was in Japan where guns were widely outlawed for centuries, it made sense. In this episode of Arrow, the hoods would have all just shot at the crowd and sent them scurrying for cover. Some had guns, yes, but most seemed to be armed with baseball bats and other melee weapons. I swear I saw someone with a 2x4.

Also, Ollie now seems to have become his mother, even though he condemned her for aligning herself with Merlyn to protect her family.

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deactivated-59c716930b8a6

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What I couldn't figure out is in the showdown where all the hoods stood at one end of the street facing off with the townfolk, why didn't they just gun them all down. The hoods had guns, but it turned into a brawl. I saw a movie over the weekend called Ichi. In it, the same sequence plays out, but since it took place a 150 plus years ago and was in Japan where guns were widely outlawed for centuries, it made sense. In this episode of Arrow, the hoods would have all just shot at the crowd and sent them scurrying for cover. Some had guns, yes, but most seemed to be armed with baseball bats and other melee weapons. I swear I saw someone with a 2x4.

Also, Ollie now seems to have become his mother, even though he condemned her for aligning herself with Merlyn to protect her family.

Good point.

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THORSON

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gonna have to wait till its on DVD. I hate watching tv.

I watched the last 2 season on DVD and its so awesome without commercials.

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