Aquaman: Rebirth (Discussion and Hopes)

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#1 Edited by EcstaticGrace (7190 posts) - - Show Bio
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I wanted to have a discussion about what fans would like to see out of Aquaman Rebirth.

For example

Creative Team in mind? (Desired Artist/Writer/Colorist)

Characterization standpoint? (Gritty,Determined,Honorable, Political side, Environmentalist. Characteristics you want followed up on pretty much)

Cast and Crew? (Who would you like to see?)(Mera, Vulko, Garth, Tula, Lagoon Boy, Kaldur, Lorena, The Others, Elementals, Swampthing, AquaDog, Topo, Tusky, Sea Devils)

Abilities/Powers? (Talks to Fish, Controls sea life, telepath with marine empathy) Trident? (Standard utensil to eat veggies and poke eyeballs, Elemental harbringer, A morphing device)

Costume redesign? (Shirtless, Orange Top, Green finned tights, Golden Boots, Armor)?

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#3 Edited by Fallschirmjager (23432 posts) - - Show Bio

In order for Aquaman to move forward we need to expand his rogues gallery

Right now after Manta and Tom there isn't much. Dead King was great but due to his nature his appearances are limited.

I think they need to expand on Siren - Meras sister and we need a land based only villain. We don't really have a female Aquaman villain and having a land based hero would help ground him

I dont really have anything specific in mind for this series I just think this is what the character needs in general

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#4 Posted by EcstaticGrace (7190 posts) - - Show Bio

@fallschirmjager: I would love a land based villain I get his name is "Aqua"man but a consistent theme is that he protects land and sea so he should be shown not limited to one or the other.

He does have villains though that are not Water related that could be reimagined. The Hunter/Gatherers, Thanatos, Deadline, DemonGate and those other dimension race of AI's from the V5 run. There's honestly alot of characters in the Aquaman mythos that I'd like to see reimagined.

Out of curiosity what's your dream team for Rebirth?

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#5 Edited by Dernman (26042 posts) - - Show Bio

As said before explore his rogues gallery. Start building long lasting quality enemies.

Also I want to ditch the King of Atlantis thing. Lets do something different and separate him from the MC/DC King of Atlantis cliche. Put Ocean Master back in charge and turn Atlantis into antagonists. Also spread out the leadership. King of Atlantis shouldn't rule over the entire oceans. Have different groups.

Have Aquaman's base be the light hows and make Aquaman the sentinel defense against the the threats from the ocean.

EDIT; oh and i'd like them to ditch the advanced science bit. Make them the worshipers of the god Poseidon who is responsible for sinking Atlantis because they were pulling away from him because science's place in their lives. Have it that Poseidon sank the island as punishment then saved them by giving them the ability to breath under water. Now they live strongly in his fold.

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#6 Edited by EcstaticGrace (7190 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman: Alot of this is really creative and has alot of PAD elements in a way from Atlantis Chronicles but I disagree not that your not allowed to have an opinion or that I disliked how PAD did it but here's why

Namor currently has no Kingdom and Aquaman was a King when Namor was a Prince so there's not really a comparison in rulership. Aquaman's kingdom also expands further then Namor's and King of the Seas and Dominion over most of the Earth just sounds badass to me.

http://namtab.com/aquablog2/JLA2015_02pg10.gif

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11124/111244877/5043871-2016-02-10_17.53.42.jpg

I definitely don't want Poseidon to have that much of a strong tie to Aquaman and his mythos I prefer them being distant and Aquaman not having faith in the Gods. All the Greco-Roman mythology should mainly be handled with Wonder Woman I wouldn't mind it being used to connect the two in story lines like past stuff but I'd prefer Poseidon disliking Atlantis and it's lineage. Have Atlantis remain the most advanced place on DC Earth if Aquaman needs to be connected to Gods let it be powerful entities like The Lady of the Lake, Arion other powerful beings like that.

When Atlan sank the Continent it showed how powerful an Aquaman character is I liked that and would like to see elements like that carry out. Pre-Flashpoint Atlan was suggested to be almost on par with Arion so I expect as much though.

The way the Parker and it seems the current run is being handled we see Aquaman can still hang out in his hometown in the Lighthouse and be king. I personally wouldn't mind seeing Orm being treated as supporting cast though.

It's all my personal preference though.

Out of curiosity who would you have write Aquaman: Rebirth

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#7 Edited by Dernman (26042 posts) - - Show Bio

@ecstaticgrace:

Alot of this is really creative

Thank you. I love thinking up different ideas for DC/MC in my head.

Namor currently has no Kingdom and Aquaman was a King when Namor was a Prince so there's not really a comparison in rulership. Aquaman's kingdom also expands further then Namor's.

There is still a kingdom as long as there are people. He will always be known as the king even when he's not. Prince/King It's a choice for him it's still the ruler by another name. Besides Aquaman has spent a good portion of his time choosing not be king. For both of them it's mostly been about choosing the throne or not. Where writers can musical hair the throne depending on the story they want to tell. What I want to do is re-envision that choice away from him and change the paradigms. He couldn't even if he wanted too and he doesn't because how they are as people. Not to mention not wanting to give up the surface world. Maybe after his superhero career is over and many loong circumstances that can change but not in his active hero years. When they are over he can become king and have others doing the hero-ing.

Side note: Does it even matter who did it fist? Namor or Aquaman. Does it matter that Namor was Prince or King for long? Not really. Its still what it is. This is about what we like to see for Aquaman. If you prefer King Aquaman fine but I don't see the Namor/Aquaman who has rights as a reason not to do what you think could be good for Aquaman.

http://namtab.com/aquablog2/JLA2015_02pg10.gif

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11124/111244877/5043871-2016-02-10_17.53.42.jpg

I definitely don't want Poseidon to have that much of a strong tie to Aquaman and his mythos I prefer them being distant and Aquaman not having faith in the Gods. All the Greco-Roman mythology should mainly be handled with Wonder Woman I wouldn't mind it being used to connect the two in story lines like past stuff but I'd prefer Poseidon disliking Atlantis and it's lineage. Have Atlantis remain the most advanced place on DC Earth if Aquaman needs to be connected to Gods let it be powerful entities like The Lady of the Lake, Arion other powerful beings like that.

I didn't say Aquaman should be a follower of the gods. I said the Atanteans would be. Since Aquaman is apposed to the gods he could or not be apposed to Poseidon.

The gods are much bigger than once character. WW universe can be about certain gods and Aquaman focus on others. Wonder Woman having grown up in the culture andd having her powers by them would be more of a follower saying things like Great Hera or Gaia grant me strength while Aquaman who was raised on land and raised in a culture that has abandoned them would more likely be apposed to him. Another reason Aquaman wouldn't be on the Atlaneans side.

Besides DC Atlanteans and Amazons have strong ties throughout their history. Also Atlantis like the Amazons actually is steeped into the Greek/roman mythology and stories from Plato's works. Not mentioning Poseidon's history of sinking islands or that one of the fictional cities is call Poseidonis and the other Tritonis. Also greek myth mer people being descendants of Triton.

When Atlan sank the Continent it showed how powerful an Aquaman character is I liked that and would like to see elements like that carry out. Pre-Flashpoint Atlan was suggested to be almost on par with Arion so I expect as much though.

I never felt Atlan offered anything good to the Aquaman mythos and wouldn't want him back besides I don't like his name. Made worse by a few other characters starting with Atla-something. Even if they didn't use the gods sinking the continent I wouldn't want Atlan to do it. Looking for feats isn't something I look for unless it supports a concept. It's just a tool to me. Besides I really want to push the idea concept of gods being above hero level and it's hard enough when powerful characters can already do things like toppling mountains.

The way the Parker and it seems the current run is being handled we see Aquaman can still hang out in his hometown in the Lighthouse and be king. I personally wouldn't mind seeing Orm being treated as supporting cast though.

I really hope they don't fall for the "he's not a villain he's just complicated" blah blah thing with Ocean Master. You can still be a bad guy/villain while being complicated and love things. I do not want to go down the Magneto and too many other characters route which is ruining them for me. Don't get me wrong I'm not apposed to it with many characters but too many great villains have fallen to that idea.

It's all my personal preference though.

And I accept my ideas as just my own personal preference as well. Which is good for Aquaman forums not turning out like the Wonder Woman ones. :p

Out of curiosity who would you have write Aquaman: Rebirth

Honestly I'm one of those people who don't follow what writers are doing unless I notice my having constant problem with their work and ideas.

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#8 Posted by EcstaticGrace (7190 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman: Even though it's not my preferred route I wouldn't be opposed to the whole Poseidon/Atlantis connection as long as it's written well I feel the Atlanteans could of worshipped Chutulu though without Plato's knowing.

I agree though that feats shouldn't matter and the story is what sells but I'm silly and need feats for my battle forum pleasure.

I honestly feel like Orm has been the best since his depiction in the New52 his vile brother attitude never really did anything for me I liked the route Johns went and would like to see them as more enemies in politics and ideas then hatred.

As far as Atlan the reimagining was pretty cool I'm hoping more character get great reimaginings.

As far as appearance though is their any costumes you'd like to see be used starting in Rebirth? Or any elements added

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#9 Edited by comicfan11 (1419 posts) - - Show Bio

Creative Team I hope for : Geoff Johns, Ivan Reis (very likely it will be Ivan Reis)

Characterization standpoint : Dual role as King of Atlantis and JL core member. Basically the hero who has to protect both land and seas from all danger and from each other.

Cast and Crew : Mera, the people of Mane and Salty, Garth, Kaldur, Tula, Vulko, Murk, Swatt, Topo, Get rid of the whole Thule debacle, keep Extriax if you must. Bring back "rebirthed" classic villains like Human Flying FIsh, Fisherman, Thanatos, etc.

Abilities/Powers : Top level super strength, speed, agility, jump, durability, stamina, healing, senses (in other words regular Aquaman). Underwater adaptation, marine telepathy (when pushed he can also affect other stuff like pre-Flashpoint e.g. aliens, humans etc). Indestructible Trident (with water control and water teleportation, but no lightning, no wind, no earth control). Master combatant, diplomat, strategist (and of course swimmer should go without saying). Fastest swimmer in the DC Multiverse (basically regular Aquaman with maybe only Flash being faster since he is basically the living concept of speed)

Costume redesign : Classic Ivan Reis New 52 costume, can't mess with it. But maybe have an Atlantean mystical armor for universal threats or something.

Now as for villains I want to see a "rebirthed" version of Fisherman that ties into the Rise of the Seven Seas storyline (we already saw a statue of him in Aquaman 24) and a "rebirthed" Human Flying Fish used as a very skilled (but ridiculous at the same time, like Batroc the Leaper from Marvel) metahuman proffesional thief who is almost as fast as Aquaman in water but can also fly (like his original comic book appearance) and use his wings to cut through nearly everything. I also want a time travel story where Aquaman goes back in WW2 and teams up with a "rebirthed" Neptune Perkins and Wonder Woman and fight Queen Clea and Triton. Finally a Multiversal adventure where Aquaman teams up with the good versions of Aquaman from other Earths (like DCAU and Injustice) against an alliance of the evil versions of Aquaman, led by Sea King and Emperor Aquaman.

Basically I want a coherent Aquaman universe that follows and expands on the 40 first issues of Johns and Parker, with 3 types of adventures : Atlantis stuff, Justice League stuff and smaller scale land adventures (or maybe even bigger stuff like fighting Kaijus and land villains or going to other dimensions but that can also be a JL or Atlantis based adventure).

And most importantly I want good characterization and respect towards the characters history and powers.

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#10 Edited by EcstaticGrace (7190 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicfan11: Heh I like alot of this.

My only additions to cast would probably be Lagoon Boy (Hoping to see more of him in Earth- 2) and Lorena who I liked her interactions with Kaldur in AquaWars. I'd go for a Garth, Tula, Lagoon Trinity of sorts representing Magic, Skill and Strength and try to give them maybe their own title called "The Drift" of have them as a end story in issues with the inclusion of Swatt and Murk ofcourse. Where Kaldur and Lorena are more seen with Aquaman and Mera given there Aqualad and Aquagirl or with the TT.

I liked your powerset addition what I'd add is that he can travel distances in ridiculous amount of time via leaping or charging as well as crazy reaction time but can't run as fast ofcourse. Faster then human but not super speed. I'd probably include lightning or some sort of blast from his trident to coexist with what media like Earth-12 and Injustice or this new Animated Universe has shown I'm actually hoping Johns finally expands on what his trident is capable of in RoTSS. I like the idea of his TP being able to go beyond sealife so I'd probably say have him be a Sealife empath where he can sense their pain or happiness, emotions in general whereas on people it's just to affect them or command maybe give him some negative side effect to going to far with abusing his telepathy (Like curse of Kordax for instance)

Your Human Flying-Fish mention came off to me as a surprise I'd be down for it if they could make it work I'm curious to how Johns will reinvent Fisherman as well, as far as Wacky ideas it's silly but I want Salty to be able to hang out in Atlantis GIVE HIM SUPERPOWWRS DC!!

I'm curious to how they'll do The JSA eras would love to see Neptune Perkins as well and hope to see a modern day version of Mr. Waterman. I'm hoping they keep Marella also ofcourse.

As far as the costume I wouldn't mind seeing pants that have a bit more of a design or those gold boots the cinematic version is wearing.

Enjoyed reading your input and liked the Etriax (Hoping more is done with him) as well as Thanatos and Sea King mentions.

Definitely agree on more out of Universe/Time/Space stories.

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#11 Posted by vinomonster (5566 posts) - - Show Bio

Creative Team in mind?

Geoff John, Ivan Reis/ Kenneth Roccafort/ Jason Fabok

Characterization standpoint?

Will act as a bridge to connect the people of Atlantis to the outside world. Will have a pivotal role in the league same as Clark, Diana and Bruce.

Cast and Crew?

Mera, Garth and Tula is enough for me. I don't want the book to be stuffed with lots of characters.

Abilities/Powers?

Full water manipulation/ weather control.. I'm fine with a trident blessed by the god of the sea.

Costume redesign?

Ivan Reis design.. I prefer the Armor to be gold than orange because it looks more royalty.

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#12 Posted by EcstaticGrace (7190 posts) - - Show Bio

@vinomonster: I like your input are there any villains youd like to see reimagined? Or past story arcs maybe retold in a new way after rebirth?

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#13 Posted by vinomonster (5566 posts) - - Show Bio

@ecstaticgrace: If they gonna go dark, I want them to retold the story arc "The Death of a Prince" without having his hand cut off. Oceanus and Triton is my villain choice, why? I think we havent seen the mythological side of Atlantis this past few years tackling will be great story telling especially if Johns is writing it.. Johns write the gods very well so thats my choices.

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#14 Posted by EcstaticGrace (7190 posts) - - Show Bio

@vinomonster: Oceanus is a great one. Ha it seems like you and Derman both agree on more Greek influence in the comics guess that's 2 on 1 then. I would like to see a reimagining of Triton though as well.

I think the reason I liked Johns run as well was because there were some dark elements and the setting was somewhat dark. We had a hero who knew he was under appreciated his arch nemesis being a psychotic killer who they share a blood feud and The Trench and dark history of Atlantis was amazing.

I liked the way DCAU handled the threat on his sons life and I liked seeing the future heir in Brave and The Bold. Would love to see that classic storyline reimagined in the modern Era where Aquaman doesn't need a boost in sales like he once did.

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#15 Posted by vinomonster (5566 posts) - - Show Bio

@ecstaticgrace: Should we thank the new 52 run for the boost sales? LOL. Do you think Brian Azzarello can do a good job writing an Aquaman story that focuses more on the greek mythology side?

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#16 Posted by EcstaticGrace (7190 posts) - - Show Bio

@vinomonster: I feel like the boost of sales could of been done without rebooting he was promoted in the comics pretty hard throughout Brightest Day and I feel probably cemented better with Flashpoint. I think alot probably was Johns name on the title more then anything else though The New52 gave him a fresh start without the needing of retconning past elements like his origin it those of his affiliated characters. Personally I enjoyed alot of the concepts of Bunn's run like Thule and The trident but the sales dived throughout his and when Johns left as well they kind of dived down and Parker did a excellent run himself which was pretty close to what Johns established.

From all I've heard I think Azzarello would be the perfect writer if you want the Aquaman book to focus on a more mythological Greek approach.

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#17 Posted by vinomonster (5566 posts) - - Show Bio

@ecstaticgrace: I like Parker's run on Aquaman.. the problem I have with Bunn is the art during his run. John and Reis really killed it, they really make Aquaman more recognizable than before. You hadnt read Azzarello's run on New 52 Wonder Woman?

If Jeff Lemire and Sorentino stayed with DC, I think they will done an awesome job in an Aquaman book.

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#18 Posted by EcstaticGrace (7190 posts) - - Show Bio

@ecstaticgrace: I like Parker's run on Aquaman.. the problem I have with Bunn is the art during his run. John and Reis really killed it, they really make Aquaman more recognizable than before. You hadnt read Azzarello's run on New 52 Wonder Woman?

If Jeff Lemire and Sorentino stayed with DC, I think they will done an awesome job in an Aquaman book.

Haven't got the chance sadly but I've been wanting to cause I here alot regarding First Born. I came on board after he left.

I liked Lemire's Aquaman reference in JLU and his Green Arrow Future End issue was my favorite of FE stories.

Don't know much about Sorrenti I think he did SM/WW?

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#19 Posted by vinomonster (5566 posts) - - Show Bio

@ecstaticgrace: Sorrentino did Green Arrow with Lemire.. they currently doing Old Man Logan in Marvel.

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#20 Posted by ScouterV (7764 posts) - - Show Bio

In order for Aquaman to move forward we need to expand his rogues gallery

Right now after Manta and Tom there isn't much. Dead King was great but due to his nature his appearances are limited.

I think they need to expand on Siren - Meras sister and we need a land based only villain. We don't really have a female Aquaman villain and having a land based hero would help ground him

I dont really have anything specific in mind for this series I just think this is what the character needs in general

I think they're doing a good job. And there are villains they could use still. They really just need to bring these villains back at certain points so we can get familiar with them, but outside of Manta, Dead King, and Ocean Master we have:

  • Siren, as stated
  • Chimera is still on the loose and had Aquaman pretty well matched.
  • King Shark/Kamo - Seems a no brainer, for why one or both of these two would fight Aquaman.
  • Legend - though he fought The Others, he really seems to have an axe to grind with AC.
  • The Solokovs - Could splinter off, seeing as how they seemed to have much different interests than Legend.
  • Sea King - Even though he was kind of killed, Deadman did get the body away. I believe the body was lost in JLD when Nanda Parbat vanished, but I could see it resurfacing in that ancient Kingdom that took over Deadman/Sea King's body through some sort of mystical wormhole. I think it would be interesting to see him return.
  • Ya'Wara - Not really a villain, but she did betray The Others. This could play into an adversarial relationship between Arthur mixed with some romantic tension that could make for an interesting dynamic between the two.

There are a few others, but throw in Dead King, Black Manta, and Ocean Master, sprinkle in the occasional Scavenger, Fisherman, appearance, I think you can set up some interesting stories with these characters. They can not only fight Aquaman, but work together in interesting pairings or even fight it out themselves and have Aquaman team up with one of them.

Sea King vs. The Dead King

Ya'Wara and Siren vs. Aquaman

The Solokovs using Chimera as a slave, who enlists Aquaman to help him.

Manta and Aquaman teaming up to face down King Shark and Kamo.

Legend vs. The Dead King with Aquaman having to stop them.

There are a lot of possibilities here.

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#21 Posted by comicfan11 (1419 posts) - - Show Bio

@ecstaticgrace: Yeah Lagoon Boy is a fun character. I hope he guest stars in Titans.

I agree as far as superspeed goes, I prefer it it's shown like in Throne of Atlantis, super charging and leaping. On land his leaps are high hypersonic, like ine the first issue, so I'm sure we will see more of that.

Johns can easily make a comedic HFF story where he tries to steal something and Aquaman stops him. And I'm sure Fisherman will appear in RotSS and be a bad@ss.

Neptune Perkins would be perfect for a time travel story and yeah I want to see Sea King and Emperor Aquaman vs Aquaman and some other versions of Aquaman. It can be great and show their different powers.

As for Thule, I'm glad Cullen Bunn is gone, but I guess it's part of continuity now, so some elements must remain, and Extriax was not to bad.

Anyway if Ivan Reis is the artist after Rebirth (again Aquamanshrine.net very strongly hints at this) , with a good writer (I have a feeling it will be Johns btw, also strongly hinted) I'm sure we will see many classic villains return.

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#22 Edited by EcstaticGrace (7190 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicfan11 said:

@ecstaticgrace: Yeah Lagoon Boy is a fun character. I hope he guest stars in Titans.

I agree as far as superspeed goes, I prefer it it's shown like in Throne of Atlantis, super charging and leaping. On land his leaps are high hypersonic, like ine the first issue, so I'm sure we will see more of that.

Johns can easily make a comedic HFF story where he tries to steal something and Aquaman stops him. And I'm sure Fisherman will appear in RotSS and be a bad@ss.

Neptune Perkins would be perfect for a time travel story and yeah I want to see Sea King and Emperor Aquaman vs Aquaman and some other versions of Aquaman. It can be great and show their different powers.

As for Thule, I'm glad Cullen Bunn is gone, but I guess it's part of continuity now, so some elements must remain, and Extriax was not to bad.

Anyway if Ivan Reis is the artist after Rebirth (again Aquamanshrine.net very strongly hints at this) , with a good writer (I have a feeling it will be Johns btw, also strongly hinted) I'm sure we will see many classic villains return.

This characterization is what won me over with Lagoon Boy.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

I'm wondering if he'll remain a Earth 2 Character or if he will transfer over to Earth Prime. Heck maybe he's already on Earth Prime, my hope was that Swatt is Lagoon Boy it can be a easy reveal and be the reason he doesn't show his face.

It's sad we havent seen Arthur make any super leaps as far as the first issue or that his charging in TOA wasn't expanded both on land ofcourse. I feel like there's been references to it though like when he was with the Others and saved that kid practically already in the Avalanche, Batman telling Aquaman and Flash to clear the civilians (possible stretch), Little snippet in Trinity Wars where he told that guy not to touch his trident. In Parker's the most noted instance I can think of is Aquaman leaping towards the Karaquan and in Bunn's run Aquaman leaping towards the Thule construct.

I personally didn't mind Bunn's run I could see why it bothers people he changed to much whereas it would of been safer to slowly transition elements and the tone to see what works and what doesn't, but I enjoyed seeing his use of the trident and I preferred seeing his telepathy used to call upon mythical creatures. So for feats I guess :P though there wasted now..

I honestly would love to see Johns and Reis come back to Aquaman their well missed and I'm excited to see what they do for ROTSS and each of the Kingdoms I think my main hype for that is Orm's return and Fisherman.

If Rebirth mixes elements of Pre-Flashpoint and Post how do you think that might change Aquaman characters? Personally I wouldn't mind Piranha Man and Charybdis being two different characters, but do you think Aquaman will continue left off from AquaWars, events like "Death of a Prince" and "Sub-Diego" happening or that they'll start off with a new story trying to mix and match?

@scouterv: What's your ideal creative team? Would you change/update Arthur's attire? Are there any Pre-Flashpoint villains youd like to see reimagined?

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#23 Posted by Fallschirmjager (23432 posts) - - Show Bio

@scouterv: I Didn't say we said they weren't doing a good job. The last 5 years have been amazing for Aquaman.

But he hasn't yet reached complete A lister status along the lines of the rest of the JLA minus Cyborg.

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#24 Posted by EcstaticGrace (7190 posts) - - Show Bio

@scouterv: I Didn't say we said they weren't doing a good job. The last 5 years have been amazing for Aquaman.

But he hasn't yet reached complete A lister status along the lines of the rest of the JLA minus Cyborg.

Completely agree in my opinion. "characters are only as important as the company and writers suggest. Not just by statements but action and as often as Johns suggest Aquaman is a "a list" character I disagree atleast to me he isn't yet, maybe the closest outside of the "Core 5" (Another problem in my opinion) and that's due to how shunned he gets in media and somewhat in the comics. You have Darkseid War being suggested that the DC Universe will never be the same again a ground shaking event and Aquaman not be including implies he's not that essential. You also have Forever Evil where we have Sea King pop out of a portal just to fall over and die.

It's how I view it atleast, maybe it'll change when the movie comes out.

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#25 Posted by ScouterV (7764 posts) - - Show Bio

@ecstaticgrace: For Creative Teams, I like the idea of Grant Morrison writing, and Jim Lee on art.

I'd go with something new. I noticed today, that I have an Aquaman hat. It literally goes with nothing I wear and it's the classic gold (or yellowish-orange in this case) and green. I just feel it's a bit tacky, and dated to me, compared to some of the other designs we've seen for the character. I'm not saying we need 90s Aquaman, but I loved the look he had under Bunn's direction. Would have preferred he keep that.

Maybe do something with the water camo? I like the color scheme, just not the execution. I'd throw out something...

Blue and Gold, Green and Blue, White, Silver, and Blue...so probably something in blue.

I guess, maybe a new version of the Deep Six? Possibly Thanatos?

@scouterv: I Didn't say we said they weren't doing a good job. The last 5 years have been amazing for Aquaman.

But he hasn't yet reached complete A lister status along the lines of the rest of the JLA minus Cyborg.

You don't think Aquaman is an A-Lister? I'm curious now, as to your definition. I would say he's pretty well known to the populace, even if they aren't terribly knowledgeable on him. That'd be akin to saying, to me, Wonder Woman wasn't an A-Lister.

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#26 Edited by Fallschirmjager (23432 posts) - - Show Bio

@scouterv: I don't consider her an A lister tbh. People know her name but that's it. No one can name a WW villain

A lister is Superman, Barman, Spider Man etc.

People not only know who they are but they know what they're about and they know their villains.

Aquaman is really only known beacuse he's joked about.

He's in a good place atm. Great even..my first post was merely what I think we need to take it to the next level

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#27 Posted by kcomicfan (4690 posts) - - Show Bio

Creative Team: Geoff Johns and Ivan Reis

Characterization standpoint: I want Aquaman to connect Atlantis and the Surface world. And fight villains who would try to stop this.

Cast and Crew: Garth and Tula.

Abilities/Powers: I want Arthur to have the ability to control water.

Costume redesign? I want him wear his Classic Ivan Reis New 52 costume.

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#28 Posted by EcstaticGrace (7190 posts) - - Show Bio

@scouterv said:

@ecstaticgrace: For Creative Teams, I like the idea of Grant Morrison writing, and Jim Lee on art.

I'd go with something new. I noticed today, that I have an Aquaman hat. It literally goes with nothing I wear and it's the classic gold (or yellowish-orange in this case) and green. I just feel it's a bit tacky, and dated to me, compared to some of the other designs we've seen for the character. I'm not saying we need 90s Aquaman, but I loved the look he had under Bunn's direction. Would have preferred he keep that.

Maybe do something with the water camo? I like the color scheme, just not the execution. I'd throw out something...

Blue and Gold, Green and Blue, White, Silver, and Blue...so probably something in blue.

I guess, maybe a new version of the Deep Six? Possibly Thanatos?

I'd be down for Grant Morrison and Lee on Aquaman I'd expect a low selling issue being like 50k at the very least :P 50k-100k an issue.

But as far as story telling I liked alot of moments and characterization Morrison gave Aquaman in JLA and as well as his Earth-11 version "Aquawoman" whose a complete badass. I liked Lee's Aquaman concept design for the New52. The crustacean armor with scaled sleeves as well as his drawing for him in JL. So that would be a power team in my opinion.

I could also go with Deep Six I think Morrison could make an awesome reinvention of them and it would be a cool connection to Apokilips and the 4th world. Thanatos with the whole time stream imprisonment would be fun as well.

Great ideas really enjoy them.

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#29 Edited by EcstaticGrace (7190 posts) - - Show Bio

@kcomicfan: Any villains youd like to see reimagined? Or storylines you would like reimagined?

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#30 Edited by kcomicfan (4690 posts) - - Show Bio

@ecstaticgrace: I honestly want Johns to create some new villains for Aquaman and I also want to see Johns' Rise of the Seven Seas story arc.

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#31 Posted by ScouterV (7764 posts) - - Show Bio

@ecstaticgrace: Honestly, I was thinking you could use a variation or combination of The Drift, that were sent to hunt Aquaman during his time in exile, with the Deep Six. It's such a cool concept that I think you could do a lot with genetic mutations, undersea creatures, atlanteans, etc. Plus, could potentially also introduce Lorena and/or Lagoon Boy, who I'd like to see join Arthur's supporting cast.

Could also tie-in to why Aquaman wasn't involved with the Darkseid War...or why he wasn't involved with The League during Darkseid War, which would imply that he was involved in the War, he simply had more immediate fish to fry, so to speak. Enter Deep Six. In fact, there's your title. Enter Deep Six.

Although honestly, a team book of Atlanteans that included Garth, Tula, Lorena, and La'Gaan might also be cool to see.

@fallschirmjager said:

@scouterv: I Didn't say we said they weren't doing a good job. The last 5 years have been amazing for Aquaman.

But he hasn't yet reached complete A lister status along the lines of the rest of the JLA minus Cyborg.

Completely agree in my opinion. "characters are only as important as the company and writers suggest. Not just by statements but action and as often as Johns suggest Aquaman is a "a list" character I disagree atleast to me he isn't yet, maybe the closest outside of the "Core 5" (Another problem in my opinion) and that's due to how shunned he gets in media and somewhat in the comics. You have Darkseid War being suggested that the DC Universe will never be the same again a ground shaking event and Aquaman not be including implies he's not that essential. You also have Forever Evil where we have Sea King pop out of a portal just to fall over and die.

It's how I view it atleast, maybe it'll change when the movie comes out.

That has kind of irked me that Aquaman has been absent for the DSW. However, I guess I can just toss it aside and ask why isn't every hero on Earth there. Surely Steel can see what's happening. Vixen? Seems like something the Lantern Corps would like to deal with.

However, I agree. Just doesn't sit well. Though, the payoff for Sea King soloing the Justice League Dark when he wasn't even in control of his body, makes up for his lackluster introduction in my opinion, and honestly, I felt left things really open to see him again down the line like how Owlman just "vanished" after FE, instead of being thrown in a cell whimpering like Ultraman or on some Motherhood kick like Superwoman. At least he wasn't stepped on and crushed to death like Atomica.

@scouterv: I don't consider her an A lister tbh. People know her name but that's it. No one can name a WW villain

A lister is Superman, Barman, Spider Man etc.

People not only know who they are but they know what they're about and they know their villains.

Aquaman is really only known beacuse he's joked about.

He's in a good place atm. Great even..my first post was merely what I think we need to take it to the next level

You have a fair point, but it's honestly not a fair comparison because every "A-Lister" has had some big budget movie released, and Wonder Woman and Aquaman haven't. Now, if the movies release and they don't do well, then that's one thing, but as of now, I don't think it's fair to hold everyone to the same standard of being an "A-Lister" when they haven't been afforded the same opportunities to be out there.

I would argue, among people who read comics, that Aquaman is pretty far along up there, or at least he should be given the quality of his book on a consistent basis.

So, do you think it's just the villain aspect that's holding Aquaman back?

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#32 Posted by EcstaticGrace (7190 posts) - - Show Bio

@scouterv: I like the idea I'm hoping we can get backup stories in the end of Aquaman where we get The Drift being sent out on missions.

If they use the Deep 6 to explain Aquaman's whereabouts I'd be excited about that.

My definition of "A list" are characters who don't miss the big stuff in comics. Vixen and Steel aren't really big enough for the writer to have to explain where they are in my opinion because there's no shock value that their missing. We can easily assume that other Earth heroes are occupied just the same as we can that they should be involved in Earth shattering events.

We have crisises that happen where Aquaman happens to be missing or isn't essential and it's pretty constant.

An a list character I'd expect to be essential to the DCU.

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#33 Posted by Ashrym (2930 posts) - - Show Bio

It's sad we havent seen Arthur make any super leaps as far as the first issue or that his charging in TOA wasn't expanded both on land ofcourse. I feel like there's been references to it though like when he was with the Others and saved that kid practically already in the Avalanche, Batman telling Aquaman and Flash to clear the civilians (possible stretch), Little snippet in Trinity Wars where he told that guy not to touch his trident. In Parker's the most noted instance I can think of is Aquaman leaping towards the Karaquan and in Bunn's run Aquaman leaping towards the Thule construct.

Don't forget the leap after Hercules. Aquaman did punch Hercules over the island from the beach on the other side into the ocean and then Aquaman leaped over the island into the ocean after him.

@scouterv: I don't consider her an A lister tbh. People know her name but that's it. No one can name a WW villain

A lister is Superman, Barman, Spider Man etc.

People not only know who they are but they know what they're about and they know their villains.

Cheetah. Wonder Woman has an arch nemesis that easily comes to mind. She just used to kill her enemies per her own explanation of why she doesn't have a lot of enemies. Aquaman has his own serious kill count, especially after the Exile arc but he also has Manta as the first arch nemesis to come to mind.

Aquaman is commented in comics as powerful and godlike often, but he doesn't seem to demonstrate it as often regardless of some consistently high feats. Writers seem to use too much plot against him instead of reinforcing why he's supposed to be an a-list character. That's how I see it, at least. I also see your point on Wonder Woman enemies, btw. For someone who is supposed to be Wonder Woman's nemesis, Cheetah doesn't have a lot to back that up in the current continuity. If it weren't for past continuities it would be hard to consider.

So....

Comments

I liked Geoff Johns work earlier in the series. I didn't mind some of the other work but Johns left the best impression. Bunn had things I did like and things I didn't care for but the direct he went was interesting. As long as Aquaman is portrayed with confidence, competence, regality, intelligence, and with some realistic anger that doesn't go overboard I think I'm good with that type of characterization, and gritty in detail works for me. One of the things Bunn did was portray more of a sappy wishy washy Arthur who made serious errors in judgement and for someone who was supposed to have taken over JL leadership from Batman they seem to have left that leadership etc quality in the gutter. That was something that should not have happened.

The recent issue of Aquaman seems to be stepping forward in a direction to allow him to focus on being a protector by delegating duties between a regent and an ambassador so we shouldn't see any more issues of what appears to be an abandoned kingdom. I wouldn't have minded moving Orm into the regent position because the people are familiar with him and he clearly has what's best for Atlantis in mind, and that would have gone a long way to prevent Orm from being a villain, imo. It looks like the powers that be want to continue to use him as a villain while moving Tula away from her role leading the drift doesn't seem to follow with her background and skills provided so far.

Topo as a watch dog for Atlantis is a keeper. :)

I don't think Aquaman needs much of a costume redesign. He's one of few characters without significant change since inception and I think the golden armor fit the regal style too. I also liked the black armor and forearm/wrist protection from Exile (except the giant belt) and could see that as worth keeping if change is desired.

The villains I would like to see further developed or added would be the deep six (and tying them in to his role in the Darkseid War) and King Shark. I see a lot of potential there. I would actually like to see Black Manta moving in a different direction based on his role in Forever Evil and Suicide Squad. He was pardoned for past crimes and his only current crime was surrendering during a staged armed robbery in order to volunteer for the Suicide Squad. Waller was correct when she assessed Manta's value before he joined the squad and he's looking for something structured to give his life meaning moving forward and that would use his skill set. Manta should be working as an agent of ARGUS and reporting to Steve Trevor. Give Manta his own title or at least profile him under that role in other titles. It's a good fit for where the character was going. King Shark has room for developing his history with Aquaman, how he returned from the portal through which he vanished with OMAC in Suicided Squad, his real mission mentioned but left dangling during Suicide Squad, and whether or not he still has his explosive implant from Suicide Squad. That could tie very well with Amanda Waller, who was previously working on manipulating Aquaman when she had Orm imprisoned and had broken her word on the death penalty being on the table. Waller makes for a great political enemy who already has ties to King Shark and possibly what he's doing in Atlantis, and sees Atlantis as a threat. Bring in a big Suicide Squad crossover story arc.

I would also like to see more of the dark gods / Cthulhu style of stories. Facing dark and ancient evils seems to fit well with the Atlantean mythos. Give him more time on land without tying him to the water, too. He's supposed to be from both worlds so it needs to be portrayed better. It's been pretty focused around water and that should be balanced out more. I'd actually like to see a war between Aquaman and Atlantis against Black Adam and Kahndaq, followed by a treaty and possibly use Black Adam as a foil at times. Adam is similar to Aquaman in that Adam is a monarch responsible to a nation as well as having godlike abilities. I could see a great story with Orm and Adam having conflicts due to conflict between nations as well, with some good predevelopment. I could also see Orm going to Adam for support paid for by promises of Atlantean weaponry in an attempt to overthrow Arthur. Aquaman has a lot of potential for dealing with political figures in an adversarial approach because of his position and initiatives to legitimize Atlantis' sovereignty in the eyes of the UN (and world).

Powers:

Powers is a bit more complicated, but unless I missed something Rebirth isn't meant to be a reboot so powers shouldn't change to previous versions of Aquaman just because. I have a fair bit of opinion on it so I'll spoiler block it to keep the page more tidy.

Part I

I like the primitive telepathy but I think it needs to be more consistent and more prominently used outside of the controlling aspect. We shouldn't see one writer making a claim about reptiles or dinosaurs working because they are close to fish, another not working for similar creatures because they are not close enough to fish, and then watch the abilities work on mammals anyway just because they live in the water. Atlanteans are not fish -- they were humans who adapted to live underwater and can breath the water. Atlanteans are clearly more closely related to mammals because they can also breath air, have mammary glands, have hair, are warm blooded, give birth to live young, and are still capable of procreation with humans. I would classify them as an adapted form of marine primate with special organs for breathing water closely related to humans. The fixation on fish in the motif is misplaced.

We have already seen that Aquaman's telepathy is harder to force his will onto targets the more intelligent his target is with Topo during Death of a King. We've already seen that Atlanna, from whom Aquaman inherited his telepathic abilities, was controlling many creatures on land during the Maelstrom arc. Primitive telepathy that affects creatures more easily based on complexity of the organism and ignoring the "related to fish" creates simplicity and consistency for the readers and the writers alike, and adds to his abilities on land more as he uses those abilities more on other creatures. Making fish easier still works because of his experience with fish and because they are simpler than other organisms, but there shouldn't be an thought to whether or not Aquaman can control a dinosaur when he can control a manatee or alligator. Extreme focus for intelligent creatures should still be effective per the precedent with Topo, and since the Atlantean trident he had was supposed to be highly valuable to sorcerers possibly easier if he has the trident with which to focus.

I would expect to see more telepathic control of microscopic organisms and such. The bane field the was able to control (also during Exile) was stated to be like a genetic virus. That fits in with other feats like controlling plankton etc. Those are some of the most simple and primitive life forms on the planet so Aquaman should have the ability to influence them like he demonstrated with the bane field. That opens up opportunities curing or causing diseases and infections, for example, with practice and effort. If Aquaman can summon microscopic organisms to chew threw wires in minutes he can summon microscopic organisms to attack opponents more often. It's hax, but then again so is direct telepathic attack. Making it complicated and difficult because of how many organisms are sensed and controlled can keep it in check but the important part of such an ability that has been demonstrated in the past is that it gives him a ranged attack much different from standard attacks of other heroes.

Control isn't the only telepathic ability that needs. Scanning for life has been one of Aquaman's telepathic abilities shown a few times and worked regardless of what creatures were scanned (the Thule refugees, for example). This is an ability Aquaman has used during Trench, Throne of Atlantis, Death of a King, and Exile. Not using it more regularly makes no sense. Everyone knows about Spiderman and his spider sense. Everyone should know about Aquaman's ability to sense life because it's useful and he should be using it a lot more.

Part II

That leads more into Aquaman's super senses. We know he has them and those are also rarely demonstrated. Aquaman has enhanced vision to see in almost total darkness and murk. He can hear a faint heartbeat from someone almost dead through a submarines hull and Superman asked Aquaman for confirmation on hearing Atomica's heart beat during the JL new membership mixer. He's capable of tracking location and positioning accurately with examples like knowing where Hercules hit the ocean to follow, intercepting a high speed chase in downtown Boston by super leaping from the harbor, and giving Mera instruction on aiming his high pressure stratosphere leap from Atlantis to Iceland accurately. His perception of where and what hasn't been fully explored but he has a high degree of spatial awareness that was explained as a sonar sense prior to n52 and he appears to have the ability. These are abilities that should be seen more often and possibly expanded in explanation for some.

That gets back to characters like Spiderman or Wolverine, who reinforce extra or heightened senses constantly and when applicable. There's plot and then there's PIS. I want to see abilities used more sensibly and not once in a while as a reminder they exist. We should be seeing things like Aquaman navigating a dark labyrinth with his super senses as he slowly rises out of some water looking badass and moves forward quietly with his heightened graceful movements at times and things like that.

Part III

Aquaman's strength is used pretty consistently and he's been described as one of the strongest people on the planet. It would be good to reinforce why he's call such more often. He has other physicals that aren't as consistent. Someone who is supposed to have skin as hard as diamond and muscle density 10 times that of normal muscle (aka 4 times as dense as concrete) should be showing the invulnerability more. It's mentioned a lot and shown occasionally but Aquaman is pierced and injured fairly frequently for someone with such claims. His healing rate and resistance to such piercing injuries have some pretty solid claims and feats too with things like an Atlantean blaster going clean through his chest and he ignores it or Atlan piercing his abdomen followed by defeating Atlan. Other times is dying from lesser wounds and having issues.

Speed is another one but it's commonly ignored by many writers for plot reasons. I think it would be a smart move to simply change most characters with super speed like that to not have it, only applying it to characters who will be using speed (eg Flash). In Aquaman's case, however, he swims at hypersonic speeds. It's not possible to move a person's body slower than hypersonic speeds to achieve hypersonic movement. For characters like Mera, who have hydrokinetic abilities, there's a reason to be able to have that travel speed without actual movement (the same thing applies to Superman's flight speed as an example). Aquaman has been shown with the travel speeds on land and hinted at fast speeds, but rarely does he use it and when he does it's generally a speed rush. He's shown speed and reactions, which make sense because a person cannot move hypersonic speeds without moving hypersonic speeds (seems obvious :D) or fail to have hypersonic speed reactions because motion is relative and everything is moving at hypersonic speeds relative to his movement speeds, so more consistent and sensible use of demonstrated abilities is in order here too.

When it comes to Aquaman's abilities, it's really just more consistency and reinforcing how powerful these abilities make him instead of just showcasing his trident and strength sometimes, and summoning creatures. We should see the invulnerability, strength, speed, reflexes, skills, leaping, super senses, etc more often than not.

Part IV

I like the weapons and powers of a god idea from Bunn, but I think he overdid it. Aquaman became stupid powerful and we went from plot being used against him a lot to plot being used against him even more by necessity. The Atlantean trident he had that gave Aquaman an indestructible cuts anything ability was good. For consistency as per earlier comments, blocking with his trident a lot more often should be what we see. That trident was also desired by sorcerers and capable of redirecting magical attacks. We should see more of this in his villains and in actually using the trident. The trident should also amplify Aquaman's psionic / mental abilities when it's in his possession and he can use it as a focus.

I would like to see an explanation of why Atlantean royal decendants are so much more powerful than other Atlanteans. Honestly, I think it stems from distance ancestry with gods in their bloodlines manifesting as a faint god spark. It follows the old school system of Kings ruling by divine right and could have been part of the basis for that concept as the reality from which it was based. That would also explain why the giant born kept calling Aquaman a godling and the golden god and referring to him as a god. They had ancient knowledge because of how old they were and how long they were trapped. That would also explain Atlantis' ties to ancient powers and possibly why they turned there back on gods, as well as why claiming that ancient power was forbidden. Arthur has already been described as the most powerful ruler Atlantis has ever seen. I think that divine spark could have been further awakened by Poseidon's gifts.

I would like to see the whole golden god thing followed up with no longer aging like other demigods and being able to manipulate the weather by summoning storms and precipitation standard to the climate and season and creating waves. All those other abilities did overshadow Aquaman's characterization too much and made him too powerful. I think he should be able to channel those abilities faster and on a larger scale using his trident as well as have a force blast with the trident, but none of those should be superior to his strength and trident damage, and definitely not lightning (it was cool but other characters already have lightning, and it was a weapon of Zeus instead of Poseidon). I would be expecting fog or snow for cover, rain to help combat fires, wind to move gases, waves and whirlpools in water to slow or trap opponents. These are more for utility while he continues to use his physicals and combat abilities for winning against opponents.

Aquaman certainly doesn't need to continue with flying/levitation, teleportation, or opening dimensional portals. He already has a mystical gate portal system built from ancient times for which his trident acts as a key. I would rather see him make use of those gates and possibly have new gates developed. That's consistent with something already in place and fixed portal points is different from other characters' teleportational or interdimensional abilities.

All in all, I think this gives him more uniqueness while maintaining his traditional character and creates better consistency with his abilities shown already and in other media.

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#34 Posted by TheExile285 (4353 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd like him to remain king of Atlantis and romantically involved with Mera. I like Garth and Tula as a part of his supporting cast but I'd also like to see Kaldur'ahm introduced as one of his supporting characters. It would also be nice to see occasional team ups with The Others.

I'd like to see a bit more of Ocean Master but not as a villian. I don't know anything about pre-52 OC but new 52 OC didn't really strike me a villian. I think it'd be good to have him as an anti hero and maybe have some redemption and reconciliation with Arthur.

Aside from that, I'd definitely like to see a better rogues gallery. Mostly aquatic villians with a land based villian every now and then.

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#35 Posted by EcstaticGrace (7190 posts) - - Show Bio

@ashrym: It's glad to see you back on and with a lot of interesting points.

Alot of the stuff I liked in your post, like The Deep 6 (Connection to Darkseid), Tieing Amanda Waller into having a role into Aquaman at some point and the Lovecraftian Horror Gods idea of tying them in with Aquaman. My favorite Aquaman story to this day is Brave and The Bold 34 "NightGods", I also liked the cartoon episode in JL where he was fighting the. The idea is pretty plausible given in "Secret Six" Arion was have said to ban the Night Gods I belive. Arion being the first Lord of Atlantis or something. Another character I'd like to see in Aquaman again.

I like the idea of Atlantis going against Khandaq but I think it would of been better served when Orm was on the Throne given he's not one to rationalize. Actually I'd play it with Orm having found those loyalist Aquaman left on land and then escalate it from there.

As far as powers I agree and disagree with a lot of stuff. I agree that Aquaman shouldn't being able to use telepathy on something just because it's Aquatic. Which he's shown to do a couple times as of The New52. The Lizard, A Giantborn, Damian Wayne clones..

Part I disagree with is it should just stick to Primitive Telepathy. One of most referenced moments in Aquaman history is when Aquaman gave that White Martian a seizure, I think it would be cool to see him become a full fledge telepath without the excuse that we evolved from fish though.. the way I'd handle it is I'd bring back the "Curse of Kordax" thing PAD introduced it was a really cool element because the way it worked was Aquaman's telepathy was overtime getting more powerful. Which kinda gives him that limitless potential thing which is cool to see in stories where we see the character as older. Like Future Flash or those future Superman stories.

I'd simply just make him more connected to sealife though while being a full telepath. Make the reason why he gets so angered about sealife be because he's an empath and maybe due to his heritage he can feel the pain they suffer and at times as well as their happiness. Due to his global link to the sea. Kinda like "The Clear"

Pre-Flashpoint he had abilities like: Telepathic Precog (Spider-Sense), Can sense water, Sonar to name a few. I believe he's shown sonar on 2 occasions in the New52 though.

I'd like his toxin/poison invulnerability to come into play more as well

I do want to see his physicals expanded on as well, and don't want to see him written in a lower setting for the sake of the story, It ticked me off when Jurgens was doing it in "The Others" series but I excused it due to his "holding back statement to Jade". I don't want him to run 7,000 mph but I'd like to see it shown that he has insane reflexes and can leap and charge at incredible speeds. Most characters don't really often use speed in Battle though other then Flash. I'd agree his durability is a bit off-putting at times other writers shouldn't write him if they can't follow the stuff Johns placed. (Gail Simons and Greg Pak...)

As far as the trident I honestly agree with pretty much everything you said. I want the trident that Johns introduced early on to be explored more and how it works and what it does to be revealed it's been teased for the longest. The way I'd pretty much handle it, is I'd make it a amalgam of all his media tridents. DCAU (Shoots energy blast, can seal dimensional tears), Young Justice (Can counter phasing with electricity, Teleportation), NEW52 Animated Verse (Cocoon seeling, Lightning, Only royalty can wield it, Can redirect energy blast, counters magic, Hydrokinesis), Injustice (Portal to the sea, sky lightning)

Good luck to any writer who tried to write that consistently :P

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#36 Posted by EcstaticGrace (7190 posts) - - Show Bio

Apologize for the late replies.

I'd like him to remain king of Atlantis and romantically involved with Mera. I like Garth and Tula as a part of his supporting cast but I'd also like to see Kaldur'ahm introduced as one of his supporting characters. It would also be nice to see occasional team ups with The Others.

I'd like to see a bit more of Ocean Master but not as a villian. I don't know anything about pre-52 OC but new 52 OC didn't really strike me a villian. I think it'd be good to have him as an anti hero and maybe have some redemption and reconciliation with Arthur.

Aside from that, I'd definitely like to see a better rogues gallery. Mostly aquatic villians with a land based villian every now and then.

Ironically looking at Cullen Bunn's I think it would of benefited him to write a Ocean Master series rather then a Aquaman one, Orm being a darker character with a stronger connection to Atlantis the on the run stuff could of worked really well for Orm with Arthur or Amanda Waller wanting him brought back in for his crimes.

@kcomicfan said:

@ecstaticgrace: I honestly want Johns to create some new villains for Aquaman and I also want to see Johns' Rise of the Seven Seas story arc.

Any ideas for villains you'd like to see created? What are you hoping for in Rise of the Seven Seas?

Personally for me there are a bundle of villains I'd like to see reimagined like "Black Jack", " and "The Thirst"

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#37 Edited by TheExile285 (4353 posts) - - Show Bio

@ecstaticgrace: Sounds good. Bunn's strength is definitely writing villains and anti-heroes. That would have made for a nice miniseries.

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#38 Posted by EcstaticGrace (7190 posts) - - Show Bio
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#39 Edited by TheExile285 (4353 posts) - - Show Bio

@ecstaticgrace: Orm? Standard Atlantian abilities and maybe some profiency with Atlantian magic/arts.

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#40 Edited by EcstaticGrace (7190 posts) - - Show Bio

@theexile285: I meant Rebirth Aquaman but heck what about your ideas for the whole Aquaman mythos like Arthur, Mera, Garth, Tula,The Others heck even Salty in terms of powersets?

Personally I'm hoping they amalgam stuff. From Pre/Post and Media.

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#41 Posted by kcomicfan (4690 posts) - - Show Bio

@ecstaticgrace: I personally want to see some more Atlantis themed villains. I don't know what I want for Rise of the Seven Seas.

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#42 Posted by EcstaticGrace (7190 posts) - - Show Bio

@ecstaticgrace: I personally want to see some more Atlantis themed villains. I don't know what I want for Rise of the Seven Seas.

Sounds really cool, personally down the road if possible I'd like to see this introduced in a Atlantis Chronicles miniseries similar to the 90's one but a reinvention for DC's current Atlantean Lore. Atlan, Arion, Orin, Xebellian history, History of the other kingdoms would be really cool.

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#43 Edited by EcstaticGrace (7190 posts) - - Show Bio
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#44 Posted by kcomicfan (4690 posts) - - Show Bio

I wish Johns was writing Aquaman by himself.

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#45 Posted by TheExile285 (4353 posts) - - Show Bio

I guess Mera's new outfit in #49 won't live past Rebirth. Interested to see Abnett does with Aquaman. Disappointed with the lack of Kaldur'ahm.

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#46 Edited by comicfan11 (1419 posts) - - Show Bio

@ecstaticgrace: Yeah there was never a question about this happening. Aquamanshrine confirmed it multiple times, but it's great to see it acknowledged during the Rebirth weekend.

Now for the Rebirth stuff.

I'm happy Mera goes back to her regular costume, no need for every character looking the same and her costume is classic.

The new artist seems to lazy to draw the chain mail, so he just make's it like pieces of sharkskin, which is dumb. Imean it's good that he gives a reason and made some research, but let's be real, he is just to lazy to do the costume justice. One good thing though he looks like he kinda copies Ivan Reis style, which is how an Aquaman book should look like. Overall I would be fine with Vicent Cifuentes doing the art, but Walker might be a surpirse.

Aquaman losses the collar, which is also dumb, since he is royalty and is probably the only member of JL who would make sense to have a collar.

The leg fins on Aquaman's suit go from "shark like" to "manta like" which is stupid on so many levels it's baffling. First the artist makes the chainmail more shark like, but then he makes the fins go from shark like to manta like? Also why would Aquaman pay tribute to the man who killed his father Black Manta. Also the design looks like Aquaman has pizza slices on the back of his legs, and they seem the exact opposite of hydrodynamic. Small detail, huge level of stupidity.

Buuuut overall I'm excited. Abnett is a good low risk high reward writer, the colouring seems good, Johns is working close with the Aqua-team and Rise of the Seven Seas is coming (written by Johns and drawn by Reis).

Plus Aquaman will be in the JL (of course) and Garth will also be a core member of Titans (continuing from Titans Hunt). Titans will also be written by Abnett, which is great and will probably result in guest appearances and more storylines for Aquaman. Plus better continuity among titles.

I don't like Finch on JL. Too inconsistent and too slow. Very risky choice for a bimonthly book. I would love Hickman to take over, but the only reason Finch is with DC is because they promised him a JL book, and he sells a lot of books.

Overall Rebirth sounds great, and Aquaman's continuity seems to be safe.

This tweet by Aquamanshrine best sums it up: Scribe Dan Abnett is working closely with Geoff Johns to recapture & build upon the central themes he established in AQUAMAN

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#47 Posted by EcstaticGrace (7190 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicfan11: Suits are bugging me but Johns and Abnett saying Aquaman is a big part of the DCU has me excited. Hitch on JL is great and I liked Finch during Brightest day I believe.

@theexile285: Im glad the outfit is gone these other outfits chqnges arent appealing to me specifically Aquaman and Garth who the latter I thought was Lorena to be honest. I'd be glad for Kaldur to return but I hope it's when the YJ Tim Drake legacy returns.

@kcomicfan: Same but Abnett is doing well in Titans Hunt and Aquaman that I'm fine with him sticking.

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#48 Posted by Zoch81 (422 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm glad that Abnett will be on Aquaman and the Titans his been great so far on those two books (Aquaman and Titans Hunt I also like what doing with Garth showing how powerful he is and that him and Donna are strongest on team also like shows how atlantean physiology is different hope bring some mystic and magic powers back well) also liked we be getting Rise of Seven Seas by both Geoff Johns and Abnett I also think Orm be back for it see what he's been doing and still with that family also like know how Orm got his trident and hemlet and are they atlantean magic( control weather water lighting etc) I see Orm more anti Hero then Villain do what necessary protect his people I hope Orm gets own book or least a mini series that would be cool.

As for the art and costumes Arthur looks better chain scale armor then pebbled armor and those golves and for Garth I do like costume think looks good same time why is he barefoot only thing missing having boots also don't mind arm tattoos as for his hair I think should have Witcher 3 Geralt Hairstlye along short beard something like that, at least Mera and Orm still got there costume have wait and see on the artist what the art looks like.

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#49 Edited by Jonny_Anonymous (45774 posts) - - Show Bio

I love Dan Abnett so the only thing I really have a problem with is the art\costume. Really going to miss that high collar, Aquaman was the only Justice League member who suited it.

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#50 Posted by SoopahSoup (120 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel like im the only one who likes the new costume lol

the neck collar kind of reminds me of classic AM idk, i like it a lot

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