Angela Issue 5, was pretty good (Again)....@ms-lola: @antithetical: When you read it tag me, can't wait to discuss the events of this issue...@winter_kills: When are you joining this topic discussion?
Angela
Character » Angela appears in 460 issues.
The long-lost sister of Thor and Loki. She served with the Guardians of the Galaxy and as a Huntress of Heven.
Angela Asgard's Assassin Discussion
@antithetical: @asgaard: Okay, I've read it, and I loved it. Ready to talk about it when you are.
One thing that struck me is Angela telling Thor she's in his debt for trusting her, which actually shows her to be a more nuanced character than what's been presented so far. And as far as Angela tossing the baby into the furnace in the last panel I'm really interested to see how that plays out next month.
Freyja behaving like she was Odin was awesome, context right... she definitely was the All Mother, mother was the key word in that scenario, and characters can't act always in the same line, they motivations change with context... Gillen definitely nailed it in that Panel...
The fight was definitely the best part of this issue (Yes Thor hold up against the Hyper fast and skilled Angela without Mjolnir or lightning, so there goes the theory that he has low combat speed, and is slow without Mjolnir, and yes the feats were not impressive but lets forget feats and all the crap that surrounds that subject in this site, that's not why i read comics), that "dialogue" was simple awesome, what a perfect way to make sure that the fight was between related GODS Odinson and Odinsdottir, the final outcome was not that predictable, with Angela setup we can never predict anything, that was the writers message from the beginning of this series, we never had certain of anything, so this outcome is a perfect fit for the plot developed until now, that keeps going forward in every issue, finally Angela is really "Asgardian"...
In my perspective Angela shouldn't have that approach with her Angel "sisters" guards, that writing was not very well done for me, but maybe is just me that don't want the destruction of the Heven and just want a different society for the Angels, Sera hadn't almost any spotlight time in this issue, and the quality wasn't affected by that, and still don't know how to feel about her throwing the baby like that, she feared for Angela's life, but that somehow show that she is not that assertive like i thought she was, because the crucial moment of this issue was when Angela sacrificed herself for her sister, with this events seems that Sera is only helping Angela because she likes her and not because it's the right thing to do, always thought that Sera character wasn't build with the nothing for nothing setup, that's why she was so important for Angela...Overall was another great issue, cant wait for what will happen with the baby and what will be Angela's relation with Asgard and Heven after the next issue events, really dislike how secret wars will end this awesome comic book, really hope that's temporary...
@asgaard: Of course now people would use this fight to claim Angela isn't all that fast, but whatever, it only seems to be important to those who don't like certain characters and battle forum junkies. Freya leading the armies of Asgard and being in command was quite appropriate given the circumstances (it's her child which was kidnapped after all and Odin does occasionally act detached and aloof with all his offspring), it does make me wonder if Odin has agreed to dual leadership role as he was alongside Freya as they attacked.
I actually did have similar thoughts about the scene where Angela and Gamora took out the guards, I guess it comes down to the urgency of the situation and needing to complete their task as quickly as possible before being discovered. Concerning Sera I was going to add in my previous post that up to this point it's felt like she has been Angela's "voice" in the book but with Angela willing to sacrifice herself for her sister and saying she's indebted to Thor because of his trust it she could become more open and not always rely on Sera's exposition. But yeah, having Sera toss the baby to distract Thor from fighting Angela seemed an odd decision and wasn't necessary to lead to the same outcome. Not that it bothered me so much, but it came off as a bit odd. Definitely looking forward to the next issue, hoping we get to see at least some of the battle between Asgard and Heven which was almost entirely happening off panel in this issue and to find out whether everything is wrapped up by the end or if we're left with some cliffhanger, could indicate whether the book will continue after Secret Wars.
@antithetical: The Angels stated that they were outgunned and didn't had enough power to launch the (dreadnoughts?) In issue 2 the Angels Queen ask Angela's help to fix Heven's world engine (Next Arc connected with their lack of Afterlife?), but whatever.... with Odin there do you think that Heven has any chance? How awesome would be if was Freyja who will kill the Angels Queen?
The plot made Sera guide Angela since the beginning of their journey, if wasn't for her knowledge in the Asgardian myths like Siriana's dress, Angela probably would never get to Heven with her sister, so i thought that Sera was who build Angela's motivations to save her sister, but just feels wrong when you help to build "positive motivations" to help others but in the end you don't share that same motivations, i really don't know if i m disappointed with the character or the writing in this particularly subject, because Sera can't only float around Angela that is always bad for any character, and seems that Angela doesn't need her so much like we thought, but worse than that, it's the fact that now i don't know if Sera really could be a good Leader like for ex. the new Angels Queen, good Leaders can't act like that, she didn't show any courage, and like you said the outcome was the same Angela fighting Thor...
@antithetical: @asgaard: My thoughts are similar to both of yours, I was a little confused with Sera's reaction but she did seem surprised at her reaction as well. I'm going to chalk it up to a spurofthemoment type thing for the baby throw, haha. I absolutely adored how the fight between Thor and Angela was shown on panel (again, the artist Stephanie Hans is just amazing), and as for using it as some kind of marker for "battle" threads, I'd say it wouldn't be worth it because of the effect of the baby being between them as arguably slowing/hindering both of these two gods down. It was great seeing Thor depicted as the warrior he is.
Heven is obviously outmanned here, and I'm a little worried about the male angels. While they have been depicted as harmless, they are still worthy of protecting and Sera's reaction to them I'm not sure about. I thought it was of disgust (having been one of them), but that would be unfair. If all you've ever known is to be subservient, isn't that suffering? Aren't they all victims?
I cannot wait for the next issue. This title has been incredible.
@ms-lola: Guess Sera had a bad day in her return to Heven, that's also a great question aren't the male Angels all victims? I guess in this subject the future plots can still justify Sera's reaction in that panel, i think you are right both were holding back in that fight because of their baby sister, and i personally hate feats and battle threads and i m far from being a specialist in this subject, but if we forget Mjolnir, we can assume that Angela is faster than Thor, and Thor is stronger than Angela like we saw in the beginning when Sera throw the baby, Thor is a great warrior but i think Angela is more skilled than him, Angela is really being written like she is really fast and since she sacrificed herself for her sister, i think is really wrong assume that Thor has low combat speed, because if that was the case he could never tag her, the last thing that Angela would want was lose the baby, i think like Gillen said in the letters page Angela power combination between Asgard (Birth power) and Heven (Learned Skills) makes her on Thor's fighting levels where Balder and Tyr never were probably only Vidar the son of Odin and the Jotun Grid but marvel doesn't use that character anymore, The lightning and weather manipulation are really the only advantage that Thor has over Angela (he didn't use in this fight because of the baby), i also think that now we can assume that the Asgardian Angela doesn't fly without Siriana's magical dress that gives her the wings, the fight was great and beautiful for the art and "dialogue", and for what represented for Asgard, we should talk more about Stephanie Hans work like you said she's really amazing... Didn't you like Freyja the All Mother? Who will Kill the Angels Queen?
I loved Freyja, and how she was depicted here! Makes me want to cry since she is the one I had been hoping to be the new Thor. (:/) I especially enjoyed that it was her that led the charge although I was a little taken aback by how she instructed Thor to only care for one of her daughters (the baby). I can understand why, but it still felt a little too mean. I do like how it showed the two (Odin and her) as equals, but considering how Asgard is being depicted in other books, I don't know that to think? I need to read Loki's next book to understand what's happening because I thought I saw Freyja, Odin and Cul all together in the future, ruling over Asgard? I'm not sure though.
I agree with you about Angela being faster than Thor, and I agree with you about Thor being stronger than her. Having her declare herself in debt to Thor made me smile, and also having Thor trust in her. This is what I love seeing, and this is what I am going to miss when this book stops for the Secret Wars thing. I really, really hope Marvel brings it back.
While both Angela and Freyja have more than enough reason to kill the Queen, I'm giving this to Sera. Sera has a whole lot of anger inside of her, and she wants revenge for what the Angels have done to her and the males of their species. I'd rather Heven still exist though, and it looks like it might not.
One complaint I have is that Sif wasn't shown anywhere. I could see the Warriors Three at the bottom of the page, but not her.
Ah, poor Sif gets short shrift in this issue, did notice Hogun, Fandral and Volstagg in the panel and thought that was a nice touch. Who knows, maybe Sif is part of the offensive and we may get to see her yet. Now this hasn't been explicitly mentioned anywhere but when @asgaard called Sera Angela's "guide" it had me wondering about how she knows SO much about Asgard and the nine realms and thinking that what if one of the reasons the Anchorites are vowed to silence and seclusion is because they are privy to knowledge kept from the Angels above? It's an angle which could be used to reconcile the animosity between Asgard and Heven were the Angel Queen to be taken out with Sera ascending to the throne. Maybe a stretch but worth a passing consideration. Now does anyone think we'll get a Surtur, or at least a Surtur-like manifestation, making an appearance next issue? Definitely think that since Heven's furnaces were dependent upon Odin's "curse" which banished the realm originally and has been broken, thus robbing Heven of its source of power, that the exorcism of Surtur's essence from the baby will make for a fine alternative, putting them in debt to Angela and possibly Asgard and thus avoiding an all-out, protracted war between the realms.
In my opinion Gillen's intention when Freyja told Thor to only care for one of her daughters (the baby), was to give Thor and his decision more value, because he still trust Angela even after what Freyja ask him...
If Loki survive to future Loki (probably will happen), that time line can be changed...
I don't want to talk about what i m not reading but Gillen understands better than other marvel writers Asgard's Royal Family dynamics, I also miss Sif a LOT...
You could be into something about the Anchorites knowledge and how it's closed in the temples, makes sense and cold be a good plot to change the Angels society with Sera and from where she comes, Surtur-like manifestation will be there i m sure of that, and you made another great call, can that manifestation "power up" Angels dying world!? You were inspired when you wrote your last post...
@asgaard: Thanks, we will have to wait and see how things play out next issue.
@asgaard: And speaking of Sif I just got the JITM Seeds Of Destruction trade and have almost finished it. Enjoying the story immensely, probably more even than Stronger Than Monsters, such a shame the series was cancelled.
@antithetical: I really think you are onto something there about the Anchorites. Good thinking.
@asgaard: That's a unique way of looking at it (about Freyja). That could work. And yes, good point about it being an alternate future (in terms of Loki's book). I do agree about how the Asgardians are being presented here. It's a toss up between Loki's book and this one. The Thor one is definitely outdone by both of these. There are a few good panels and some decent speech bubbles here and there, but not consistent, not like Loki and Angela's.
@antithetical: @ms-lola: Stephanie Hans, Phil Jimenez, Marguerite Bennett and K. Gillen deserve that we read Angela Witch Hunter, after this 5 issues... I think we (the Asgardians 3) love immensely Seeds Of Destruction and Sif...And even the Horse Face (BRB), he just can't be to close to Sif, because when that Happens i start to dislike him! just Kidding...
@asgaard: Agreed! I know I might get a little hate for this, but I really don't enjoy Beta Ray Bill. I never liked having Sif be paired up with him and while I can appreciate Sif going off on her own considering how much Thor has been shown with other lady loves, I'd rather it not be a Thor lite. See? haha, I can be such a hypocrite. Poor Beta Ray Bill. The only real thing I don't like about him is that. I want my Sif with Thor. (:P)
@antithetical: I think your way of thinking gives proper attention and gravitas to the plight of the Anchorites. I feel awful for them. It's a good story down the line, should this creative team not be allowed to explore it at the moment with all the Secret Wars upheaval.
@antithetical: @ms-lola: Stephanie Hans, Phil Jimenez, Marguerite Bennett and K. Gillen deserve that we read Angela Witch Hunter, after this 5 issues... I think we (the Asgardians 3) love immensely Seeds Of Destruction and Sif...And even the Horse Face (BRB), he just can't be to close to Sif, because when that Happens i start to dislike him! just Kidding...
I've already made the decision to follow Angela Witch Hunter, @ms-lola easily persuaded me on that a couple weeks ago, and it may be the only title I buy from the whole Secret Wars event.
And @asgaard , I'd almost think you were a little jealous of old Bill. lol!
@ms-lola: BRB is a cool character, but i agree with you, Sif and BRB chemistry is not believable at all, it's like Thor and Jane in the Thor movies, just doesn't work, I think Sif is Asgardian and like Valkyrie they will live "forever" other love interests are perfectly natural, fits this kind of "Gods" characters, but Beta Ray Bill is a meh love interest for Sif, she only gives him attention when she is not with Thor and let's face it BRB is a Thor rip off.... that i like, Adam Warlock could work better as Sif love interest in the future he is very interesting character, there is connection in the past comics in Adam origin story, but Sif and Thor will always go back to each other, the several Thor runs that i read that always happen...
@antithetical: Of course i was jealous of old Bill...lol
@antithetical: @asgaard: At least we can keep Sif alive in comic forums.
@ms-lola: BRB is a cool character, but i agree with you, Sif and BRB chemistry is not believable at all, it's like Thor and Jane in the Thor movies, just doesn't work, I think Sif is Asgardian and like Valkyrie they will live "forever" other love interests are perfectly natural, fits this kind of "Gods" characters, but Beta Ray Bill is a meh love interest for Sif, she only gives him attention when she is not with Thor and let's face it BRB is a Thor rip off.... that i like, Adam Warlock could work better as Sif love interest in the future he is very interesting character, there is connection in the past comics in Adam origin story, but Sif and Thor will always go back to each other, the several Thor runs that i read that always happen...
Who are your 10 (number of realms) favorite Asgardians?
My list in preference Order
1 Thor, Sif
2 Odin, Loki
3 Balder, Angela, Amora
4 Valkyrie, Heimdall, Freyja
Going by your hierarchy, where you favor certain characters equally, mine looks something like this...
Thor, Valkyrie, Odin
Sif, Amora, Hela, Loki
Heimdall, Balder, Angela
Angela is still fairly new to the Asgardian family and she has such a short history with them it's kind of hard to rank her higher, at least for me.
Honorable mention goes out to The Warriors Three. \m/
@antithetical: You really really love Valkyrie, man now i understand how mad you were in Fearless Defenders when she was merged with that character that was so memorable that i forgot her name, and i agree with you Angela needs more stories as Asgardian, but she has a lot of potential, and i also like a lot from the W3...
@asgaard: Yeah, I'm a big Valkyrie fan and have been since I was first introduced to her in the original Defenders series. I liked the idea of a strong, independent woman who was an undisputed warrior and could go toe to toe with the Hulk. I wasn't ao impressed with Sif at the time since even though it was always emphasized she was a warrior born she was always subservient to Thor, and her hooking up with BRB during Simonson's run rubbed me the wrong way. Thankfully she's been redeemed in JITM, but for me Val will always be my first Asgardians infatuation, lol! Angela definitely has a lot of potential and could certainly move up on my list in the future.
Why didn't they just make Angela (Aldrif) the new Goddess of Thunder for a while? Honestly, if a story arises post-Secret Wars about Angela joining the Asgardian pantheon I'm mildly interested in it. There can develop a whole new relationship with Thor and Loki can go back to being the manipulative SOB he should be.
Why didn't they just make Angela (Aldrif) the new Goddess of Thunder for a while? Honestly, if a story arises post-Secret Wars about Angela joining the Asgardian pantheon I'm mildly interested in it. There can develop a whole new relationship with Thor and Loki can go back to being the manipulative SOB he should be.
Because the current marvel editorial thought the current creative decisions only from the the marketing standpoint, Angela has an unique personality but certainly the last thing that she would do is call herself by other name that not hers, no Asgardian would ever call himself with other name that not his own name, not Sif not Valkyrie not Freyja, that would be the opposite of their honor culture, and as you know the current marvel flag is that she is Thor that is what marvel is selling to the new readers.
Angela Asgard's Assassin it's pretty good, if Gillen delivery in issue 6 like in the previous issues, in my personal opinion this Arc only be bellow the Gorr Arcs from Aaron's TGOT, and Angela is a fit in Asgard, and what a good fit judging by this Arc, when the book was getting incredible interesting will stop for the uninteresting Secret Wars, there we will have other version of Angela (witch hunter) apparently without our loved Asgardian elements, but the writers basically confirm That Angela the Asgardian will be back after Secret Wars and will interact with all her Asgardian family, i already love to discuss this book with @ms-lola: @antithetical:and @winter_kills: will join the discussion soon, you are another "Asgardian reader" that i would like to discuss Angela book events, because like i said before this book is really about GODS/ANGELS/DEMONS and their different "mythologies", and i totally agree with you Angela Odin's daughter really can changes all Asgard's royal family current dynamics and let's not forget her Balder and Thor's (half) baby sister, only after issue 6 we will know her future...
Why didn't they just make Angela (Aldrif) the new Goddess of Thunder for a while? Honestly, if a story arises post-Secret Wars about Angela joining the Asgardian pantheon I'm mildly interested in it. There can develop a whole new relationship with Thor and Loki can go back to being the manipulative SOB he should be.
They probably could have done this after the Tenth Realm mini and alienated fewer fans, given it the same hype and media push and probably seen sales just as good as the current replacement Thor has seen, but then that would have meant one less female-centered book on the stands and since Marvel has been all about grabbing as much of this demographic as they possibly can I guess the more the better in their eyes.
@asgaard: Agreed, as always. The House of Ideas isn't that anymore, they're just using PR-pandering, controversial gimmicks instead of telling awesome stories with great characters, & hiring writers that can see the potential in these characters instead of creating some hollow new analogue. Currently, Marvel is the House of PIS.
On another note, I really can't wait to catch up on Angela so I can discuss it with you & the other cool Thorriors here!
@asgaard: Yeah, I'm a big Valkyrie fan and have been since I was first introduced to her in the original Defenders series. I liked the idea of a strong, independent woman who was an undisputed warrior and could go toe to toe with the Hulk. I wasn't ao impressed with Sif at the time since even though it was always emphasized she was a warrior born she was always subservient to Thor, and her hooking up with BRB during Simonson's run rubbed me the wrong way. Thankfully she's been redeemed in JITM, but for me Val will always be my first Asgardians infatuation, lol! Angela definitely has a lot of potential and could certainly move up on my list in the future.
Man I loved the original Defenders, and have always loved Val because of it!! (Even loved the non-team when it was just her, Nighthawk, Hulk & Hellcat!) The only reason I read the New Defenders(the team with Angel, Iceman & Beast on it) was because of her!
And I think Ed Brubaker did a pretty good job showing how badass she was in his Secret Avengers run. (A team with Val, Steve, the Widow, Nova*Rich Rider* & Moon Knight- a dream team for me, too bad it didn't last.)
Glad to know another Val fan...esp. one that appreciated her from the Defenders era! We need to spread the Val love! (Or, as Hulk affectionately called her, "Sword-Girl"...)
I agree, I love Sif but didn't like the "subservient" way she had been portrayed in the past, & probably my one gripe with Simonson's run is her hook-up with BRB. But like you said, JiM showed her potential, if only they could have pushed that book more!!
(I'm actually hoping her appearances on Agents of SHIELD & her pretty cool portrayal by the sexy Jaimie Alexander give her a second chance in the comics.)
And Angela is showing a lot of potential....I need to catch up on the latest issues, but Gillen usually delivers, & if @asgaard says it's good, I know it is. Instead of pushing a female Thor analogue with no legacy of her own, who'll always be in the shadow of Thor, why doesn't Marvel push these already-established, fantastic, strong female characters like Val & Sif, who are connected to Thor & Asgard but have histories & legacies all their own, & Angela, who is showing great potential & also has the benefit of a great writer that has shown to respect pre-established continuity, but at the same time do something new & creative with it?
Because everyone knows when the real Thor reclaims Mjolnir, even if they give her another weapon a la Eric Masterson/Thunderstrike, she'll suffer the same problems as that character, even moreso- existing in Thor's shadow, no legacy of her own, considered nothing but the female analogue and fading into obscurity and/or being written out or killed off. (Also the fate of characters like USAgent & War Machine- though they're still around not used much, because people consider them "knock-offs" of the real deal, the same problem Thunderstrike suffered from until DeFalco & Frenz mercy-killed him.)
Basically, as I was telling @asgaard, the House of Ideas, IMO, has sadly become the House of PIS or the House of Gimmicks. It's easier for them to create an all-flash, no substance character than it is to tell awesome stories with interesting, pre-established characters with infinite potential.
Who are your 10 (number of realms) favorite Asgardians?
@asgaard: List
1 Thor, Sif
2 Odin, Loki
3 Balder, Angela, Amora
4 Valkyrie, Heimdall, Freyja
@antithetical: List
1 Thor, Valkyrie, Odin
2 Sif, Amora, Hela, Loki
3 Heimdall, Balder, Angela
@winter_kills: List
???
Who are your 10 (number of realms) favorite Asgardians?
@asgaard: List
1 Thor, Sif
2 Odin, Loki
3 Balder, Angela, Amora
4 Valkyrie, Heimdall, Freyja
@antithetical: List
1 Thor, Valkyrie, Odin
2 Sif, Amora, Hela, Loki
3 Heimdall, Balder, Angela
@winter_kills: List
???
Loki is not asgardian!!!! he is pure frost giant
Who are your 10 (number of realms) favorite Asgardians?
@asgaard: List
1 Thor, Sif
2 Odin, Loki
3 Balder, Angela, Amora
4 Valkyrie, Heimdall, Freyja
@antithetical: List
1 Thor, Valkyrie, Odin
2 Sif, Amora, Hela, Loki
3 Heimdall, Balder, Angela
@winter_kills: List
???
Loki is not asgardian!!!! he is pure frost giant
meh, adopted... close enough as far as I'm concerned. lol!
@killraven4334: Loki deserves the fit, Hela also isn't Asgardian, i could say Gods but whatever not important...
Who are your 10 (number of realms) favorite Asgardians?
@asgaard: List
1 Thor, Sif
2 Odin, Loki
3 Balder, Angela, Amora
4 Valkyrie, Heimdall, Freyja
@antithetical: List
1 Thor, Valkyrie, Odin
2 Sif, Amora, Hela, Loki
3 Heimdall, Balder, Angela
@winter_kills: List
???
Okay, here goes:
1 Thor, Loki, Sif
2 Odin, Valkyrie
3 Balder, Angela, Amora
4 Heimdall, Hela
Who are your 10 (number of realms) favorite Asgardians?
@asgaard: List
1 Thor, Sif
2 Odin, Loki
3 Balder, Angela, Amora
4 Valkyrie, Heimdall, Freyja
@antithetical: List
1 Thor, Valkyrie, Odin
2 Sif, Amora, Hela, Loki
3 Heimdall, Balder, Angela
@winter_kills: List
???
Loki is not asgardian!!!! he is pure frost giant
meh, adopted... close enough as far as I'm concerned. lol!
Agreed!
@asgaard: yes, actually I did think about Hela and Loki not being "Asgardian" in the purest sense of the term but I'm looking at it slightly more from the perspective of characters which play a major role in the affairs of Asgard.
@asgaard: yes, actually I did think about Hela and Loki not being "Asgardian" in the purest sense of the term but I'm looking at it slightly more from the perspective of characters which play a major role in the affairs of Asgard.
And that was the point of the ranking list... The idea was mine i make the rules. lol (not important Loki and Hela are perfect fits).
@antithetical: @winter_kills: I also like Valkyrie but perhaps she has to much of the typical female Warrior, sometimes i think she is written outside of the Asgardian warrior concept, Sif's Vanir blood makes her warrior concept more unique where character development fits better, and Angela is a totally new concept, i hope there is room to all shine in the future, but Angela as Asgardian will probably take away some spotlight from Valkyrie in the future, Sif and her indestructible connection to Thor put her in a more safe spot, Thor current writer seems to dislike both (Sif and Valkyrie) because he always ignore this characters.
@asgaard: Well that is a matter of opinion and as so often is the case it comes down to the writer and a lot of the time I feel Valkyrie is simply used as rhe sword wielding "warrior woman", especially since she's so often presented in a team setting and rarely gets the spotlight. That's why I love The Fearless arc from the Fear Itself event, as she doesn't feel as single note, one dimensional as she's usually portrayed.
As for Angela I do kind of agree that she could fill some roles Valkyrie would otherwise be used for, though I think with her connection with the GotG Angela will probably be in situations facing adversaries quite different than what Val normally sees. I know a complaint I've read is that lately Sif has been written a lot more like Valkyrie so that there's little difference between the two other than hair color. To an extent I agree though from everything I've read so far Val tends to be more introspective and part of the reason she seems disconnected from Asgard is because she is, since the Valkyrior were prohibited from their traditional role of choosing mortals slain in battle she gravitated towards seeking adventure on Midgard and has become one of its self-proclaimed defenders. In the comics she normally has closer ties to Earth than even Thor.
@asgaard: yes, actually I did think about Hela and Loki not being "Asgardian" in the purest sense of the term but I'm looking at it slightly more from the perspective of characters which play a major role in the affairs of Asgard.
And that was the point of the ranking list... The idea was mine i make the rules. lol (not important Loki and Hela are perfect fits).
@antithetical: @winter_kills: I also like Valkyrie but perhaps she has to much of the typical female Warrior, sometimes i think she is written outside of the Asgardian warrior concept, Sif's Vanir blood makes her warrior concept more unique where character development fits better, and Angela is a totally new concept, i hope there is room to all shine in the future, but Angela as Asgardian will probably take away some spotlight from Valkyrie in the future, Sif and her indestructible connection to Thor put her in a more safe spot, Thor current writer seems to dislike both (Sif and Valkyrie) because he always ignore this characters.
You know I loves me some Sif too, Viking Brother! But I can't help but love Val when she is used correctly, in the ways @antithetical mentions. She was used pretty well in Defenders in the past..classic Defenders, not Fearless Defenders- I definitely didn't like Val's portrayal there. There she was really written outside the concept of Asgardian warrior, & out of character, IMO. (The Fearless & Secret Avengers, at least Brubaker's run, were pretty good examples too.) I also love Angela, the new elements she brings to the table, being of Asgardian blood but having a totally different perspective an outside perspective being raised in Heven. I can't wait to see her story progress & be more of a part of the mythos & the entire MU. Sif had such great potential in JiM if they just let Immonen continue & give the book a push- she has that connection to Thor, but with Vanir blood you mentioned, as well as the Berzerker concept Immonen brought in, enough uniqueness to stand on her own. I think Val could have that same potential, if pushed correctly. Like you brother I would love for all three to be able to shine equally- three interesting characters that while connected to Asgard bring something uniquely their own to the table- but Aaron & Marvel editorial mainly ignores Sif & Val(along with many other awesome Aesir & Vanir) as you mentioned. If they put all the effort in to pushing these characters with unlimited, mostly untapped potential & Asgardian connections but with legacies all their own that they do in pushing a character that is a substitute for a title character, with no legacy beyond that iconic character's shadow, I know they'd be successful. Marvel's energies are focused in one area, on one character newly created, instead of these 3 great characters & others that could further add to the mythos & tell great stories.
@asgaard: Well that is a matter of opinion and as so often is the case it comes down to the writer and a lot of the time I feel Valkyrie is simply used as rhe sword wielding "warrior woman", especially since she's so often presented in a team setting and rarely gets the spotlight. That's why I love The Fearless arc from the Fear Itself event, as she doesn't feel as single note, one dimensional as she's usually portrayed.
As for Angela I do kind of agree that she could fill some roles Valkyrie would otherwise be used for, though I think with her connection with the GotG Angela will probably be in situations facing adversaries quite different than what Val normally sees. I know a complaint I've read is that lately Sif has been written a lot more like Valkyrie so that there's little difference between the two other than hair color. To an extent I agree though from everything I've read so far Val tends to be more introspective and part of the reason she seems disconnected from Asgard is because she is, since the Valkyrior were prohibited from their traditional role of choosing mortals slain in battle she gravitated towards seeking adventure on Midgard and has become one of its self-proclaimed defenders. In the comics she normally has closer ties to Earth than even Thor.
Man, you've got a great handle on Val! You described her perfectly, her role & motivations- you have a better understanding of her than most writers do. I love when she is portrayed more 3-dimensinal instead of stereotypical warrior-woman(the same goes for Sif), neither character should be interchangeable with the other. The Fearless arc was a pretty great showing for Val, a rare solo spotlight, I agree. I think it would be awesome if they explored the Valkyrior connections more, how through being a chooser of the slain for centuries she has developed a strong connection to the mortal world & a deeper understanding of mortality, giving her even more of a motivation to be a defender of the mortal world. Just the connections to the Valkyrior concept & seldom-explored Asgardian afterlife would make for great story-telling if done properly.
@winter_kills: Agree with you, what a surprise... and i really have to buy online and read Fear Itself the Fearless...
@antithetical: The Valkyrior is an excellent argument that i didn't acknowledged in my description, that concept definitely gives her some unique characteristics to her character, i also have to agree with you, that is a matter of opinion and as so often is the case it comes down to the writer, although in my personal opinion Sif's character in JIM had great depth in interactions with other characters like for ex. with her brother Heimdall, so for me the hair color only difference critics are unfair for Sif recent active portrayals...
Did you guys read Loki AA last issue?
@winter_kills: Agree with you, what a surprise... and i really have to buy online and read Fear Itself the Fearless...
@antithetical: The Valkyrior is an excellent argument that i didn't acknowledged in my description, that concept definitely gives her some unique characteristics to her character, i also have to agree with you, that is a matter of opinion and as so often is the case it comes down to the writer, although in my personal opinion Sif's character in JIM had great depth in interactions with other characters like for ex. with her brother Heimdall, so for me the hair color only difference critics are unfair for Sif recent active portrayals...
Did you guys read Loki AA last issue?
:) Yeah brother, you will love the Fearless, it's the best portrayal of Val in quite awhile. Haven't portrayed her well aas a stand-alone character since IMO.
I totally agree with you about Sif- Kathryn Immonen got the character, showed she was more than just Thor's love interest, showed her depth & legacy beyond that(the only thing that bothers me is the Sif/BRB relationship, I never saw them as having a relationship, but more of a warrior's bond, as Sif travelled with him on a quest to rediscover herself; I feel the romance has been inferred by writers & readers alike; but for some reason writers go with them being exes)...& I'm glad you mentioned her relationship with Heimdall, the fact that they are brother & sister is something that is largely ignored these days, except in JiM...I liked that connection, I remember Sif going to Heimdall for advice at his post at the Bifrost during Simonson's run- we don't get to see interactions like that anymore.
1) Thor and Sif are tied (haha, like you)
2) Loki, Freyja, Angela
3) Holstagg, Valkyrie, Leah (Hela, as is rumoured...)
4) Fandral and Hogun
Clearly I like a lot more, but these I would say are in my top ten as of right now.
Why didn't they just make Angela (Aldrif) the new Goddess of Thunder for a while? Honestly, if a story arises post-Secret Wars about Angela joining the Asgardian pantheon I'm mildly interested in it. There can develop a whole new relationship with Thor and Loki can go back to being the manipulative SOB he should be.
With how Angela's story is being played out, I wouldn't have wanted it to go that way. Like @asgaard mentioned, the Angela that's out there would have never taken on Thor's name, or his place. She's far too powerful and self aware to go that route, haha. Thank goodness.
You know I loves me some Sif too, Viking Brother! But I can't help but love Val when she is used correctly, in the ways @antithetical mentions. She was used pretty well in Defenders in the past..classic Defenders, not Fearless Defenders- I definitely didn't like Val's portrayal there. There she was really written outside the concept of Asgardian warrior, & out of character, IMO. (The Fearless & Secret Avengers, at least Brubaker's run, were pretty good examples too.) I also love Angela, the new elements she brings to the table, being of Asgardian blood but having a totally different perspective an outside perspective being raised in Heven. I can't wait to see her story progress & be more of a part of the mythos & the entire MU. Sif had such great potential in JiM if they just let Immonen continue & give the book a push- she has that connection to Thor, but with Vanir blood you mentioned, as well as the Berzerker concept Immonen brought in, enough uniqueness to stand on her own. I think Val could have that same potential, if pushed correctly. Like you brother I would love for all three to be able to shine equally- three interesting characters that while connected to Asgard bring something uniquely their own to the table- but Aaron & Marvel editorial mainly ignores Sif & Val(along with many other awesome Aesir & Vanir) as you mentioned. If they put all the effort in to pushing these characters with unlimited, mostly untapped potential & Asgardian connections but with legacies all their own that they do in pushing a character that is a substitute for a title character, with no legacy beyond that iconic character's shadow, I know they'd be successful. Marvel's energies are focused in one area, on one character newly created, instead of these 3 great characters & others that could further add to the mythos & tell great stories.
This made me tear up. Thank you. This is exactly how is should have played out. Why didn't Marvel push Sif the way they did this new Thor? Marketing could have done it, anything could have done it. Focusing on Sif in the MCU would have been an even better precursor to it. Ugh. You are ripping open some old wounds here.
@asgaard: Well that is a matter of opinion and as so often is the case it comes down to the writer and a lot of the time I feel Valkyrie is simply used as rhe sword wielding "warrior woman", especially since she's so often presented in a team setting and rarely gets the spotlight. That's why I love The Fearless arc from the Fear Itself event, as she doesn't feel as single note, one dimensional as she's usually portrayed.
As for Angela I do kind of agree that she could fill some roles Valkyrie would otherwise be used for, though I think with her connection with the GotG Angela will probably be in situations facing adversaries quite different than what Val normally sees. I know a complaint I've read is that lately Sif has been written a lot more like Valkyrie so that there's little difference between the two other than hair color. To an extent I agree though from everything I've read so far Val tends to be more introspective and part of the reason she seems disconnected from Asgard is because she is, since the Valkyrior were prohibited from their traditional role of choosing mortals slain in battle she gravitated towards seeking adventure on Midgard and has become one of its self-proclaimed defenders. In the comics she normally has closer ties to Earth than even Thor.
Brilliant break down of Valkyrie. I cannot tell you how disappointed I was with the most recent Fearless Defenders title. I'm still wondering if they intend to retcon her history going forward, or is this just how she's going to remain? I hope not. I really, really hope not.
Did you guys read Loki AA last issue?
I did and I got a little lost with all the whoisisn'tLoki, haha. I knew Verity would be a big part of things but considering how this issue ended by things going into the future by eight months (and the impending endoftheworld) I don't what's going on? Loki looked really, weird. right? I think I am missing something. There is still one more issue before the Secret Wars take over, so maybe it'll be clearer. What did you think?
@ms-lola: Nice list, Leah was an awesome character, i miss her... Odin? He is the core of the Aesir, we almost know that in every situation he first thinks in a reaction with strength, but that fits his role as King and All Father of Asgard, but his character was build with the premise of wisdom like we saw in Loki's book, Aaron's current take on this character doesn't respect his core elements, although i think since Fear Itself Freyja is more assertive than him...
I m lost as you are about Loki's last issue, seems that SW arrived to this book plot and that events are unknown for the Future Loki, that is strange, this could imply new time line for Asgard after SW, Verity was a good and predictable fit for the current plot, did present Loki "burn" to much and Reboot himself?
Valkyrie appeared in (Shield issue 1 December 31 2014) Link and she didn't have any signs of the annoying Annabelle Riggs...
@asgaard: Ah, thanks for the link. Plus, I talked about Odin in the Thor thread, haha. Sorry! I'm getting all confused.
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