@theTimeStreamer:What do you mean the first time it connected to Hope? She rejected it before it could fully merge with her. As for why the P5 didn't restore the mutant race, my guess is only Hope w/PF could have done that. At least that's how I understood it.

AvX ended?

@Gambit1024:Yep. Consequences is next.

@JoseDRiveraTCR7: because the pf didnt come to earth to restore the mutant race it came to do what it did along the way to earth. burn everything.

@Gambit1024: yep. the douche is getting life and magneto for some reason unknown is wanted.

@JoseDRiveraTCR7: @theTimeStreamer:

Life? Damn.

How did it end, exactly? Jean came back? Hope died? What?

i cant believe people are actually getting mad about this. its freaking AVX...........

@Gambit1024: hope and scarlet witch beats cyke's ass, hope took the pf fixed the planet so it doesnt go boom, scarlet witch and hope joint effort NO MORE PHOENIX FORCE and as the PF disappears mutants begin to pop up on cerebra. scott gets imprisoned hank hates his guts. only small showing of jean when cyke is about to lose the PF but no time travel young jean BS.

I just want to confirm this:

All of you are saying that it's ok to kill innocent civilians to turn other innocent civilians into mutants.

You're also saying that Cyclops was right to do this.

I assume all of you also have no problem with Ozymandias in Watchmen.

@JoseDRiveraTCR7: What a hero!

Remind me again how many people he killed to do the right thing.

Wasn't it amazing when he murdered his mentor?

Gosh it was worth it.

@theTimeStreamer: Ah. Sounds.... anti-climactic. I mean if it took Hope and Scarlet Witch to fix everything, why didn't they just do it to begin with?

@Gambit1024: the douche thought he can do it alone. he couldnt.

@theTimeStreamer: Eh. Dude's got a big ego. Same thing could be said about Captain America thinking he can straight up take Hope away from Utopia.

But honestly, it's something I'd rather not over-think.

@theTimeStreamer:Yes, it did. It was said multiple times It stated such when it took over the P5 and it wasn't a lie seeing as it accomplished such with Hope when she finally merged with it at the end of AvX.

@Crash_Recovery: I've already said before that Scott and the P5 performed many terrible actions. However, Scott was right about the Phoenix coming down to save the mutant race and he accomplished what he has set out to do since HoM. IMO, if the Avengers didn't continuously poke him with a stick and stopped him, there most likely wouldn't have been any bloodshed.

And yes, Ozymandias was right.The will of the many outweigh the will of a few, and because of this is was able to end the Cold War. Of course, seeing as you as Rorschach fan, who himself viewed the world in a black and white mentality (because he was an idiot), you probably will disagree with this.

Dose this mean hope,s time in the X men books is done she did her F ing job now she can move the hell along?

What about the PF giving free energy to the World, ending hunger and the threat of war, how many people did that save. BUT NO, we got to keep F'ING with the fire people until they go crazy lol.

@AgeofHurricane said:

But seriously, Wanda Maximoff murdered 4-5 honorary Avengers, decimated an entire species due to 'daddy issues' but somehow managed to not find herself in jail. Cyclops on the other hand, does, because Tony Stark and his fellow Avengers are incapable of calculating 1 + 1 ? Right.

DADDY ISSUES!!!!! LMAO.

Totally agree with you on this one. Cyclops for the WIN!

cyke is the man

@AgeofHurricane said:

They were right...but the whole thing was garbage, like, everything, starting with Wanda and Hope's "no more Phoenix" tribunal.

Goodness me.

Oh, and, could some tell my why Magneto's apparently "WANTED" ? What, was it because of his participation in X-Men Legacy #274 ? LOL.

Because Cap said so.

In the end, almost everyone was right and wrong:

Cyclops was right that this coming of the Phoenix and Hope would lead to the rebirth of mutants. He was wrong that it posed little/no threat to the Earth.

Capt. America was right that the Phoenix's return might endanger the Earth.

Everyone who said so was right when they said the Phoenix couldn't be controlled. If it wasn't for the Scarlet Witch suggesting Hope should give it up, Hope would have gone from White Phoenix to Dark Phoenix like Cyke did.

The real heroes of this story? Spiderman and Iron Man. Spiderman for the "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility" which makes him the only Marvel hero still worth beans. Iron Man for splitting up the Phoenix Force. Hope wasn't ready, and she would have gone Dark Phoenix quickly.

The mutants have been repowered?... finally! It took literally six years to do this but it could have been stretched a bit farther! But now Moonstar, Prodigy, Blob, Callisto, Marrow, Thornn, Slipstream, Angel Salvadore, Beak... and a few others I'm probably forgetting, will finally get to be re-explored... if Marvel decides to go the route!

This should be interesting for Jubilee. And Wind Dancer can now return!!

@papad1992: Isn't Beak dead?

im not sure what all was said past the first page but i got one thing i would like to add

@theTimeStreamer said:

@AgeofHurricane: no cyke was not right. he thinks he is but he is so far up his own ass its pathetic. hope couldnt do it. not with the 'training' the x-men gave her. only through iron fist's training, the knowledge of kun lun and the help of scarlet witch did she succeed. if only some idiot hadnt refused the help of the avengers in the beginning. the planet wouldve been destroyed if cyke had had it his way. there is no doubt of that.

Or if only some so-called scientist hadn't blasted the Phoenix Force causing it to scatter about in the first place.

Let us all meditate on the fact that two mutants "wished away" the PHOENIX FORCE.......just...5 minutes, minimum....

@TheCrowbar said:

@papad1992: Isn't Beak dead?

Nope... not that I recall!

@papad1992: I checked, he "retired" with Angel to raise the kids. I would NOT want to get my powers back if I was beak.

@White Mage: i wonder why they didn't wish the world back in order and all the dead people back to life while they were at it?

@White Mage said:

Let us all meditate on the fact that two mutants "wished away" the PHOENIX FORCE.......just...5 minutes, minimum....

oh dont get me started on that so all of a sudden this first timer with the phoenix just controls it in a second then fixes the entire earth then some how just wishes it away? and also um y did JEAN the only person to actually become one with the phoenix force have such a little role isnt she suppose to be coming back any way and also um i know the shiar has been through some stuff but um where were they at*i dont remember anything about them doing anything did they*

@MagnificentStorm: Jean isn't really coming back, well i mean she is. The original 5 X men are coming from the 60's or when ever they were suppose to be and time traveling to the present so it's Jean before she died hell before she ever knew what the phoenix was. The Shi'ar was involved in the Wolverine & The X men tie in's, Gladiator came and got his arse kicked by the Phoenix 5 and then ran back home with his son and his tail tucked between his legs, also i don't think it was just the gaining control of the Phoenix but the ability to use The Witches powers that allowed her to dismiss the phoenix (still utterly lame) Also i do believe Rachel Grey was one with the phoenix for a bit, and controlled it just fine without any phoenix related deaths, a small fact that the avengers liked to not mention when they talked about the history of the phoenix

@papad1992: I checked, he "retired" with Angel to raise the kids. I would NOT want to get my powers back if I was beak.

@McKlayn said:

@MagnificentStorm: Jean isn't really coming back, well i mean she is. The original 5 X men are coming from the 60's or when ever they were suppose to be and time traveling to the present so it's Jean before she died hell before she ever knew what the phoenix was. The Shi'ar was involved in the Wolverine & The X men tie in's, Gladiator came and got his arse kicked by the Phoenix 5 and then ran back home with his son and his tail tucked between his legs, also i don't think it was just the gaining control of the Phoenix but the ability to use The Witches powers that allowed her to dismiss the phoenix (still utterly lame) Also i do believe Rachel Grey was one with the phoenix for a bit, and controlled it just fine without any phoenix related deaths, a small fact that the avengers liked to not mention when they talked about the history of the phoenix

Oh i thought she was coming back back i really didnt read up on it so thanks. Also i know the gladiator thing but i meant involved involved involved like they have always been where the ship with there big death ray i mean something. usually there the first people on the job. Still doesnt matter this is the phoenix force power incarnate and not just that i mean not even jean became one with the phoenix in 2 seconds but this person that has never had it at all just masters it in 2 seconds come on really just no. Also no one has been one one with the phoenix like she was and still is it was just horrible either way.

@MagnificentStorm: i agree the problem is they made this into an Avengers and X men story when the Phoenix has always been an X men story, to top it all of the X men have always been the heroes and they twisted to TRY to make them bad, so the story itself has no real rhyme or reason with the rest of history. Thus things like Jean and Rachel's connection to the Phoenix and The Shi'ar being so involved got pissed on so they could make the Avengers look awesome and exploit the movie that was just released.

@McKlayn said:

@MagnificentStorm: i agree the problem is they made this into an Avengers and X men story when the Phoenix has always been an X men story, to top it all of the X men have always been the heroes and they twisted to TRY to make them bad, so the story itself has no real rhyme or reason with the rest of history. Thus things like Jean and Rachel's connection to the Phoenix and The Shi'ar being so involved got pissed on so they could make the Avengers look awesome and exploit the movie that was just released.

really stupid really i mean ugh the people that should have been involved weren't and then people that really have nothing to do with it get involved i dont know i was just the worst ending ever to me.

@Dernman said:

@TheCrowbar said:

@papad1992: I checked, he "retired" with Angel to raise the kids. I would NOT want to get my powers back if I was beak.

After Beak left the X-Men he joined the New Warriors then left and joined the Teen Brigade. He is still a member of Teen Brigade with Angel Salvadore.

Took the words right out of my mouth Dernman.

@Lvenger: That isn't what happened at all. Utopia is its own nation. Captain America brought an army of Avengers to Utopia and basically DEMANDED he give Hope to him.

Regardless, the Phoenix does not, and has NEVER, worked like this. Why would Cyclops give Hope to Captain America anyway? Capt, along with the rest of the Avengers literally know NOTHING about how the Phoenix works. This entire event was abysmal.

@AgeofHurricane said:

But seriously, Wanda Maximoff murdered 4-5 honorary Avengers, decimated an entire species due to 'daddy issues' but somehow managed to not find herself in jail. Cyclops on the other hand, does, because Tony Stark and his fellow Avengers are incapable of calculating 1 + 1 ? Right.

I don't know how to agree with you more, but I'm going to spend the rest of my night finding a way to.

Cyclops was right!

This event was just an excuse to watch Avengers punch X-Men and vice versa. Hopefully the titles that are coming in the wake of it will actually be worthwhile. This series made the Avengers look like morons and Cyclops was right the whole time. I really hope the writers won't keep Cyclops locked up for long. His response to Beast at the end of Uncanny X-Men #19 after he found out new mutants had appeared was great though, "I'd do it all again."

I'm not saying the Avengers didn't do anything wrong but ultimately this is all on the X-Men, particularly Cyclops. I detest his character even more now.

It didn't happen. It didn't happen. It didn't happen.

Mutants just suddenly started popping up again in the Marvel Universe. No reason why. No explanation. No event.

NONE OF IT HAPPENED.

@JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:

And yes, Ozymandias was right.The will of the many outweigh the will of a few, and because of this is was able to end the Cold War. Of course, seeing as you as Rorschach fan, who himself viewed the world in a black and white mentality (because he was an idiot), you probably will disagree with this.

I'm actually not a Rorschach fan, nor am I an Ozymandias fan.

Your condescension speaks volumes about your maturity.

I can't imagine anyone being supportive of the course of action that Cyclops took (and I'm saying this as a long-time Cyclops fan) during AVX, unless they were slavishly dedicated to the idea of that character always being right.

Throughout this whole ordeal, none of the Marvel U characters have been written particularly well. The whole situation was engineered to be a fight from the start, and Cyclops has been looking for a war since the founding of Utopia. Look to Axel Alonso's comments about the Post-Xavier era of the X-Men. The X-Men are no longer a school or a family, they're an army.

The attitude that mass killing of civilians is justifiable in any situation is disturbing. If what Scarlet Witch did to jump start this whole Era of Marvel continuity with "No More Mutants" was bad, what Cyclops did to bring about new mutants was heinous and despicable.

I can't imagine anyone being supportive of the course of action that Cyclops took (and I'm saying this as a long-time Cyclops fan) during AVX, unless they were slavishly dedicated to the idea of that character always being right.

I don't support a lot of the actions Scott took. I've already said this. When I say Cyclops was right I mean when it comes to the intentions of the Phoenix and him achieving his goal of the past five years. Yes, he did a lot of terrible things like imprison some of the Avengers in hell, kill Prof X, destroyed some cities, but if the Avengers had not continuously attacked him a lot of his reprehensible actions probably wouldn't have occurred. The Avengers are the cause to the effect. That's the whole point to 'Cyclops was right'.

Throughout this whole ordeal, none of the Marvel U characters have been written particularly well. The whole situation was engineered to be a fight from the start, and Cyclops has been looking for a war since the founding of Utopia. Look to Axel Alonso's comments about the Post-Xavier era of the X-Men. The X-Men are no longer a school or a family, they're an army.

I don't see how this proves Scott was looking to go to war. Simple preparations of a possible future event doesn't mean he wanted that event to occur. If someone prepares for a natural disaster, does that mean they want the natural disaster to happen?

The attitude that mass killing of civilians is justifiable in any situation is disturbing. If what Scarlet Witch did to jump start this whole Era of Marvel continuity with "No More Mutants" was bad, what Cyclops did to bring about new mutants was heinous and despicable.

WW2? If we hadn't dropped the two atomic bombs on Japan then it's was very likely that more lives would be lost through an invasion.

@Lvenger: I love your response, thank you.

Many of the responses to Cyclops being "right" here seem to feel that the only people in the world are the Avengers and the X-Men. No one knew what the Phoenix would do, and, in fact, it destroyed a populated planet on its way to earth. Is that a harbinger of peace and renewal?

Regardless of the "mutant renewal" (aka, unsuspecting normal humans being forcibly mutated), the actions of Cyclops resulted in the deaths of countless innocent civilians. Saying what he did was right because of the end result is silly. That's like saying the Punisher would be right to destroy a whole building and everyone in it as long as the Kingpin and Bullseye were inside.

@Crash_Recovery said:

@Lvenger: I love your response, thank you.

Many of the responses to Cyclops being "right" here seem to feel that the only people in the world are the Avengers and the X-Men. No one knew what the Phoenix would do, and, in fact, it destroyed a populated planet on its way to earth. Is that a harbinger of peace and renewal?

Regardless of the "mutant renewal" (aka, unsuspecting normal humans being forcibly mutated), the actions of Cyclops resulted in the deaths of countless innocent civilians. Saying what he did was right because of the end result is silly. That's like saying the Punisher would be right to destroy a whole building and everyone in it as long as the Kingpin and Bullseye were inside.

Exactly. 7 billion lives were at stake. The sovereignty of Utopia isn't as important as letting the Phoenix possibly destroy the world which it has a track record of doing. And Cyclops response "I'd do it all again" sickened me. He'd wage war against his fellow heroes, make grievous errors whilst leader of the X-Men and with the Phoenix Force is just an absurd position to hold. Now I made an educated guess that what happened in AvX12 would be the end result but no one in the story knew that for sure. And so for all their mistakes, the Avengers acted more rationally than the X-Men well Cyclops.

I love your response too. And for that you get a follow! :)

Ok, let's take your argument. First, the result of WW2 without use of the atomic bomb is unknowable. Just like Cyclops couldn't know what the Phoenix would do when it reached earth, we can't accurately tell how WW2 would have swung if Fat Man and Little Boy hadn't been used.

Additionally, if you want to argue that death of civilians is acceptable for the greater good, let's examine that.

In WW2 it's arguable that millions of additional lives would have been lost of the atomic bomb hadn't been used.

Loss: Two cities bombed

Gain: Millions of lives spared.

In AVX, had Cyclops making unilateral decisions for the 7 billion other humans on earth resulted in the following:

Loss: Countless civilians dead. Wakanda, NYC, other cities devastated. Cyclops murders his mentor.

Gain: Innocent civilians forcibly mutated. Mutants more feared than any point in previous history.

I can see that you're going to insist that the moves that Cyclops made are right no matter what, and that's your right to do. What I'm saying (and I've been a Cyclops fan at many times in the past) is that he was written to be a villain in this story and whatever sour victory he can claim in the end still pales in comparison to what had to be done to achieve it.

@JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:

WW2? If we hadn't dropped the two atomic bombs on Japan then it's was very likely that more lives would be lost through an invasion.

*chuckles*

What's funny is that Cyclops did not start this war, nor was he looking for one. Not that i'm a fan of the character but, oddly enough, AvX, for the mess that it was, had me gain some--actually--a lot--of respect for the character. All he ever wanted to do was protect and restore his kind. Bring them back from the depths of extinction--by all means possible because being nice and friendly had gotten him nowhere in the past. Considering the fact that Scott was the face of--and was leading the whole of what was left of Mutantkind, you'd think a few of his actions (of which the most drastic were caused when Tony Stark got involved, along with his Avengers) would be condonable when you have selfish "superheroes" like the Avengers prodding and poking at every turn and never helping when needed, but no. For an extremely long time after the Scarlet Witch--a member of the same Avengers--decimated MK, murdered millions in the process (please note: even though this has been stated before, i'll still say it again. Wanda Maximoff did not pay for any of her crimes against humanity, instead, she got a vacation to Latveria and an engagement with Von Doom, and the Avengers overlooked everything.), their numbers were falling one by one, until Hope came, a mutant, which then triggered 7 other mutants to pop up all over the world. Now, put yourself in Scott's position: when it's made quite clear to you that there is no saving grace for you and your kind, that you are on your own and it's only a matter of years before you arrive at the proverbial end, living everyday with one eye open...how would you feel ? How would you feel if Hope, literally as well as metaphorically came out of nowhere ? Considering all the struggles that Scott went through since M-Day, and the burdens he alone had been required to shoulder, how would you really feel ? I'll leave that question open to the evidently unhinged many who still believe in their heart of hearts that Scott was wrong. The "i'd do it all again" comment was the best part of Uncanny's most recent issue, the Avengers brought this war on themselves, trying to foolishly handle something they'd no experience of meddling with, let's not forget the occurrences of X-Sanction now, even if the architects of AvX did. Him being the villain of AvX is not the point, that was, sadly, made clear from day one.

But in the end, no matter how butt-hurt some of you are, Cyclops was right.

@theTimeStreamer: Well you must know very little of the history of war, 80% of all wars started by one nation moving there army into another country. World war one was started by a gunshot.

A declaration of war is a formal act by which one nation goes to war against another. The declaration is a per formative speech act (or the signing of a document) by an authorized party of a national government in order to create a state of war between two or more states.

The legality of who is competent to declare war varies between nations and forms of government. In many nations, power is given to the head of state or sovereign; in other cases, something short of a full declaration of war, such as a letter of marque or a covert operation, may authorize war-like acts by privateers or mercenaries. The official international protocol for declaring war was defined in the Hague Convention of 1907 on the Opening of Hostilities.

Since 1945, developments in international law such as the United Nations Charter, which prohibits both the threat and use of force in international conflicts, have made declarations of war largely obsolete in international relations. In addition to this, non-state or terrorist organisations may claim to or be described as "declaring war" when engaging in violent acts. These declarations may have no legal standing in themselves, but may still act as a call to arms for supporters of these organisations.

Utopia being a sovereign nation, had a form of war declared on them.

@Crash_Recovery: cykes actions were wrong, the phoenix returning mutants, is what he was right about