So something I've been thinking about for a while is in regards to the Phoenix. I know most if not all of us are sick and tired of the Phoenix stories and would be happy if we never saw them again. But the Dark Phoenix Saga was arguably one of the major stories that propelled the X-men to iconic status back in the day. We all know inevitably there will be another movie and storyline involving it. But would it be beneficial to have a different or more in depth explanation of the Phoenix?

For instance which do you prefer.... The Phoenix just being some impersonal force of life and death as written in the comics or do you prefer the movie version with it being a manifestation of Jeans power unleashed?

This was the subject of a discussion recently at the local comic book shop and some people had some really cool answers about what they thought would at least make the Phoenix a little better and more understandable.

One of my favorites was that the Phoenix should be the culmination of all the psychic power of telekinesis and telepathy user from the astral plane. Meaning that when Jean was dying originally in saving her friends she somehow called out and absorbed the astral plane and all the psi-power there which manifested as the Phoenix. I thought this was pretty neat in that for a moment Jean would have been the only TK/TP on the planet and it would have rendered others powerless for a short time. I thought this would have made the story even richer if that's even possible.

The next idea was one I sort of played off of with my own but basically the Phoenix is simply an ancient goddess in the Marvel Universe. And this goddess every so often returns to earth and selects an avatar, normally a TK /TP in a similar way to Cyttorrak. This goddess selected Jean as her avatar. If I'm not mistaken that's not so different from the Ultimate version which I thought had some clean storytelling elements to it.

OK my little contribution was somewhat similar but it was more or less the Phoenix being a disembodied Celestial or Celestial energy. Anyway we know little about the Celestial so this was like a pantheon type story in which a certain Celestial angered her elders or leaders and was stripped of her armor and cast out. The Celestial being disembodied is forces to roam the universe in energy form and at times consumes planets or stars to satiate it's Hunger. When Jean was dying and using all of her ability to rescue her friends her mind called out and this disembodied Celestial in energy form heard her and merged with her giving her cosmic level power that was extremely difficult if not impossible to contain.

Like I said it was just for fun but basically a few people are into to trying to rewrite the X-men universe and update the stories so that they glow some better. I guess this is useful especially when you get to the 90's stuff where everything was Terminator, Time-Travel, Shoulder pads, and Clones. It's a fun exercise. But anyway do you think the Phoenix Force needs a better explanation or even an update from being just a force? Do you like the movie version (not the execution but the explanation of what the Phoenix was) or the comic version better? Or do you have some other explanation or version that you think might be kind of cool?

Any thoughts?

Well I like the phoenix as a cosmic force because Jean and Rachel get to be on teams without being these God-tier story breakers. And the pure potential of having a cosmic god assimilate you and either drive you mad with power or set you on a mission is great. To say nothing of the mystique of the Grey Family/Phoenix connection. Its great and we don't have to even talk potential stories because a lot has been explored already.

That said I think the "Extension of Jean awesome power" is a great explanation for the movies and other continuities because it makes Jean and her power a timebomb without having to make up and construct a version of the Phoenix for your world. That said, the downside is still the fact that if you say World Eating Dark Phoenix is Jeans power, then after you do that its kind of hard to move to.the next storyline where Giant robots are a threat...so you have to write Jean out almost completely. Which as a fan, isn't cool since you want more of your favorites not a big send off and then gone forever.

So Yea...I like what we have , because part of what makes the phoenix cool is that we know so little about it, that flying through space and accidentally running into makes as much sense as it bursting through Jean or Hopes souls and the fact that its unpredictable makes it work.

I liked it as a extension of Jean's powers, like it was originally before being retconned into a cosmic entity. I also like it as the cosmic force, because it is hard to picture the X-Men as they are today without it being such. I just think it told a better story when it was a extension of Jean's powers.

Let someone else have the Phoenix lol

I'm fine with Phoenix being a cosmic force, it should just be used better instead of "Here's the Phoenix to solve/start all our problems!"

@kgb725: your wish has been granted it looks like Thanos wants to be the new Dark Phoenix in his new ongoing series.

just bring original jean back already i have been waiting forever and now teen jean is getting lame and starting to be a background character.....where she can have more potential

That's what I was thinking.

:c I prefer it as jeans power... but on the level of thor, nate grey, hyperion. they don't have to make it overpowered.

I like xorn jean level of power and once in awhile she could tap into the phoenix power without being a host.

The only thing i like about jean merging with the phoenix force is, it makes the x-men more powerful than the avengers

Phoenix force sends out fragments of its body. Fragments needs hosts.fragments decides how much power it will lend a host. Usually the power is dependent on the force of will and imagination of a host.

A fragment can give the host. Full power of the pf. Sometimes the fragment/phoenix force acts on its on volition.

Example, when rachel thought that her battle with necrom would lead to destruction of earth, suddlenly a wormhole/stargate opened up and rachel drove necrom to the gateway, it brought them to a dead galaxy

my headcanon from endsong and prevretcon Phoenix is that jean is a fragment or piece of the Phoenix that was somehow born as a human, it got triggered when annie died, awaking jeans powers and after the shuttle crash she became green Phoenix manifesting her full power. do ehen she dies she joins the rest of the force

Aside from other Jean related characters....that has never worked out well. It makes it less special and more likely to be overused.

I just want a story where the Phoenix force doesn't have heroes fight each other

Okay. Happy now?)

There is nothing wrong with having a phoenix avatar on a team. Rachel was able to control it for years, with the help of her team mates though.

The problem is the host should know how to control the power or energy it releases. Power corrupts.

I think it takes much effort to control the power released than to release great amount of power. Making the phoenix avatar seem like an ordinary omega level in the battle field.

Let jean be the goddess that she is and let rachel be the phoenix avatar.

I would like to see teen jean develope her powers to xorn levels.

I wanna see new feats

Healing through tk

Inter-dimension tp calls

Inter-galaxy tp calls

Costume change through tk

Micro blackhole

Energy manipulation

Matter manipulation

@rubear: Actually.....I am.

The Phoenix sure is being less choosy lately. First it was just Greys. Then any telepath. Then any mutant. Now it's alien death gods. Well I guess it's better insurance.

meh, maybe thanks and white Phoenix jean are going to be an item

Thanos is involved with the Phoenix

X....dear God add the Phoenix Force to the list of Marvel's X-character hostages.

@koays: They can have that one, though. At least for the next twenty years or so.

Thanos is a mutant.

Remember when we saw Jean slowly die when speaking to Phoenix? Those were happier times.

The movie version with it being a manifestation of Jeans power unleashed - i.e. the version of the Phoenix as it was originally conceived.