I've always thought that Nightcrawler and Beast should be good friends. They are both playful characters that are experts in acrobatics, have a strong sense of morality (or at least they used to), and they both have to deal with looking like a furry blue monster. Then I saw this in Amazing X-Men #4:

Because of the similarities between the two characters, they very rarely get to be on the same team together because one of them would seemingly be redundant. I feel like there is so much that could be explored with the two characters. They have very different worldviews which could be discussed, and they could pull off some amazing team up acrobatic feats.

I know that X-Fans hate Beast right now, but would you like to see more of the friendship between Nightcrawler and Beast explored in the comics?

It certainly would be welcome.

Now that I think about it their lack of "on screen" friendship seems bizarre. You would think these two would get along famously.

You would figure they would enjoy petting one another.....

Get this Pro Furry Nonsense off my forum

I love the outfits. Particularly, Storm's and Jean's <3

@koays: I was thinking of a purely platonic relationship where they hang out, drink scotch and solve the world's problems, and maybe occasionally go on a man date to the ballet. @cattlebattle is the one who made it weird.

@tristanheron: There is nothing wrong with two grown furry men petting each other.

@cattlebattle: Yeah okay, I'm a bit old-fashioned. But then so is Beast. Oh my stars and garters.

@tristanheron: shockingly this isnt the first time Cattlebattle has promoted Furry love on this board....but your still at fault for intiating this episode.

@koays: is shipping Iceman and OML considered furry shipping cause i was all about that when Extraordinary came out

@mcklayn: Shipping any form of Logan is garbage shipping...since hes a terrible person and deserves to die alone......sorry dont know where that came from

Obviously it is because you're obsessed with the Jean/Scott relationship. I mean, I've heard you imply a few times that you would like to see Logan be celibate, saying that he's "been with too many women." However, Logan was one of the big four superheroes along with Superman, Spider-Man, and Batman, and both Spider-Man and Batman have both been with more women than Wolverine. Obviously you hold another kind of resentment towards Wolverine's sex life... Maybe because he was shoved inbetween your favorite relationship?

There is more evidence to this as well. You also seem to hold some resentment towards the X-Men's greatest writer, Chris Claremont. Not only do you refuse to amit that he was the X-Men's greatest writer, you also always seem to take every obertunity to knock him down a peg. You even once referred to him as "the most overrated X-Men writer." Where is the real source of the Claremont resentment coming from, Koays? Is it because Claremont intended to break up your favorite couple and put Jean with Logan?

It's all starting to add up...

Koays BTFO'd.

@invain: Lol well first...I ship Batman with Catwoman or no one. And Spiderman with Mary Jane....though i acknowledge that he at least could have pro longed love interest in Blackcat, Gwen Stacy or even Silk at this point.

2nd my problem with Logan and his relationships is that he tends to use them as his motivator in the most cliche action hero sense. I dont have a problem if you invent a girl to be with him and be his love interest. But to say Jean, Psylocke or Storm should be in a relationship with him is to say that they should play second fiddle in a relationship to our "totally badass, angst filled, forever tormented hero" despite the power that they each represent.

3rd Yea...I do have a beef with Claremont. He ships Rachel and Nightcrawler, writes Storm as a Mary Sue, and gets away with writing alot of weird ass/flat out bad crap that no one talks about. So while i do consider him to be the best writer, with the best run on X-Men...i choose to express my critique of his writing by not saying that he is unless flatout asked, and by pointing out things I dont like when i think it damaged the writing.

4th Lets be real. Jean as a character gains nothing from being paired with Wolverine. Wolverine has half a dozen love interest more relevant to him then Jean. And Claremonts writing rarely does any favors for her or Scott.... So the only thing that should be adding up is that theres something that works in X-Men (Scott, Jean and Logans dynamic) that adding MORE Claremont to doesnt help.

5th. HE SHIPS MY BELOVED RACHEL WITH THE BLUE FURRED SON OF A DIME STORE DEVIL IMPERSONATOR!!! I SHOULDNT HAVE TO EXPLAIN WHY I HATE FURRIES OR BEEF WITH CLAREMONT!!!

True, but that doesn't change the fact that Batman may be the biggest pimp daddy in comics.

And Spiderman with Mary Jane....though i acknowledge that he at least could have pro longed love interest in Blackcat, Gwen Stacy or even Silk at this point.

I liked Spider-Man with Black Cat. I remember reading some Spider-Man comics from the 2000s and not liking him being with Mary Jane. They didn't seem like a real relationship, they were more like a idealized fantasy.

I don't even read Spider-Man, I just remember clicking on a thread about all the women that he has bedded and was legitimately surprised that he had been with so many. I expected a small number since he was married for so long.

my problem with Logan and his relationships is that he tends to use them as his motivator in the most cliche action hero sense. I dont have a problem if you invent a girl to be with him and be his love interest. But to say Jean, Psylocke or Storm should be in a relationship with him is to say that they should play second fiddle in a relationship to our "totally badass, angst filled, forever tormented hero" despite the power that they each represent.

It don't have to be like that. The thing with Wolverine is that he doest have relationships, he has friends with benefits. I doubt that anyone that wants to see Logan and Storm together wants to see them written like you're describing. I myself used to want to see a Logan/Psylocke relationship. Tho the obertunity has already been long missed by this point, I thought in the early 90s they could of complemented each other well if written together.

Yea...I do have a beef with Claremont. He ships Rachel and Nightcrawler, writes Storm as a Mary Sue

I didn't see that. Storm did seem like his second favorite character, but she didn't seem like a Mary Sue.

and gets away with writing alot of weird ass/flat out bad crap that no one talks about

A lot of it was a product of the time period. The 70s and 80s had a lot of weird shit, it was not just Claremont. Ever read 80s Superman? There is a lot of shit in there that will top anything that Claremont did when it comes to weirdness. Simonson also had a lot of weird stuff in X-Factor. Claremont's runs from the 2000s didn't have no where near as much weird stuff.

Lets be real. Jean as a character gains nothing from being paired with Wolverine. Wolverine has half a dozen love interest more relevant to him then Jean. And Claremonts writing rarely does any favors for her or Scott.... So the only thing that should be adding up is that theres something that works in X-Men (Scott, Jean and Logans dynamic) that adding MORE Claremont to doesnt help.

Claremont never intended to keep Logan with Jean, he intended to use Logan to break up Scott and Jean. Fans might not like it, but Scott and Jean breaking up does open a world of possibilities and story options.

HE SHIPS MY BELOVED RACHEL WITH THE BLUE FURRED SON OF A DIME STORE DEVIL IMPERSONATOR!!! I SHOULDNT HAVE TO EXPLAIN WHY I HATE FURRIES OR BEEF WITH CLAREMONT!!!

Nightcrawler is a saint. He should be able to pipe down any whore that he wants.

Eh, I think a Mary Sue described a writer quasi inserting themselves into a story somehow through a character, although, the definition of that term seems to have changed over time.

Soon .....soon.

@cattlebattle: Well i guess a female Gary Stu would be more accurate...but the point stands.

And the world needs someone to stand up and save us from the depravity that is Claremont's acid trips. We need a hero....

@invain: Nah i feel like the nature of Spideynand MaryJane is that they are eachothers "otp". So while he or she might have chemistry with Blackcat and others...at the end of the day we know that the happy ending for Spiderman books is Pete and MJ.

As for Wolverine...its just the nature of his character. Like you can look at Psylocke or Storm or Jean and see someone who would be more then his equal physically and mentally. But Wolverine is so complete as a character that they cant really add to or effect him in a unique way. Which is really disappointing considering how big these characters and personalities are. I mean in a way Gambit is similar to Wolverine but his flaws are so inherent to his character that he could be paired with Storm and those flaws would have interesting effects in how they both are effected by their relationship that would be different from how Rogue and Gambit would.

I dont think Storm's early Claremont roles is bad. About halfway through the Outback period it starts to get noticeable when he turns focus to her but it isnt till X-treme that starts getting development that just reinforces things we already knew about her and she stands out as being over written.

Idk i feel like Jean and Scott seperating because of death or distance is more appealing to their dynamic then someone coming between them that they "like" more. I mean Maddie and Emma both were great because of the power of a Jean and Scott split up. But alot of that comes from the potential that if Jean came back theyd have to put what they have up against what Scott and Jean had. Where as if Jean or Scott was flat out dropped for someone else or simply grew apart then it would end that tension quickly and establish that the new relationship is stronger then the old one and their was nothing special about it. And thats what Claremont seemed to be aiming for.

Nightcrawler is a fuzzy that even Mystique wanted nothing to do with.

Classic Wolverine had a lot of flaws that could of been added to. You're talking about shitty, inconsistent, 2000s Wolverine. As a Wolverine fan, I like to pretend that he doesn't exist. Like I said, the obertunity for a Wolverine/Psylocke relationship has long since past.

Wolverine - 1974-2004 R.I.P

I dont think Storm's early Claremont roles is bad. About halfway through the Outback period it starts to get noticeable when he turns focus to her but it isnt till X-treme that starts getting development that just reinforces things we already knew about her and she stands out as being over written.

In the outback era? Examples? Wolverine and Rogue were the stars of the book during that time. Look at the main story arcs. Broodfall, Genosha, the return of Nimrod. They all focused on Rogue, Wolverine, or both.

Storm didn't do much. She went through a big journey that started in the early 80s. Her journey of becoming a great leader. When she returned to the X-Men with her powers at the start of the outback era, she essentially became Cyclops. She was competent, firm, and in charge. She was kind of boring during this time, but like I said: like Cyclops. I can't think of any Storm issues from the beginning of the outback era to Inferno. There was maybe one after Inferno. Storm was killed(later revealed to of been inverted to a child by some shitty X-Factor villian) only a few issues after Inferno though.

I don't know about X-Treme X-Men either. I remember the story where Storm was going to marry some alien during the invasion story and thinking it was weird af, but Storm didn't seem to get any more panel time than other characters. The whole premise of X-Treme X-Men just seemed boring to me. It didn't become interesting until after that plot was over, slightly before God Loves, Man Kills II. Bishop and Sage seemed to get more issues devoted to them than Storm.

Idk i feel like Jean and Scott seperating because of death or distance is more appealing to their dynamic then someone coming between them that they "like" more. I mean Maddie and Emma both were great because of the power of a Jean and Scott split up. But alot of that comes from the potential that if Jean came back theyd have to put what they have up against what Scott and Jean had.

If they did split we could actually see Jean be with someone besides Cyclops. In main continuity, she has only been with Cyke. She has been with Logan in a couple alternate Universes stories, but they never even work out in a alternate universe and she usually ends up with Cyclops. We've seen Cyclops with Lee Forester, Colleen Wing, Madelyne Pryor, and Emma Frost, but Jean has only been with Cyke. Because of the way the did break up, with Jean dying, it closed off a world of stories that we could of seen.

Where as if Jean or Scott was flat out dropped for someone else or simply grew apart then it would end that tension quickly and establish that the new relationship is stronger then the old one and their was nothing special about it. And thats what Claremont seemed to be aiming for.

There is nothing special about most early relationships in real life. It was also Lobdell who really established them as a otp. Claremont was going to break them up before Lobdell.

Nightcrawler is a fuzzy that even Mystique wanted nothing to do with.

But Rachel did...

@invain: @koays:

"but Rachel did..."

rekt

@invain: Nah. Like i said Logan is a very complete character by design. He relies heavily on that stability in his interaction with other characters. Yes its blown up to being everything to everybody in the 2000s but its based heavily in his early interactions and development on the team. The problem has always been there.

My point was that its noticeable not that she gets a particular story arc. Just that when the narrative takes time to focus on Storm its you notice that its going back to her when ever we get a "Storm takes charge moment". Storm tangents during the Outback Era grate my senses more then a issue about how shes a Draculas perfect bride or an arc where shes a child or learns to be independent. Its that kid in class who spent the whole day yesterday talking nonstop and the next day raises their hand again. Even if its just to go to the bathroom ut tiring.

Xtreme was by far worse. Aside from the constant "Am i doing the right thing?/Your Storn of course your right!" I think by the second to last arc she was having field trips away from the cast only to have toncome back and save them since their helpless without her. Its just exhausting.

I honestly think Jeans a character that can grow from a period of being on her own outside of a relationship, more then by just pairing her with someone else. Cyke is in a similar boat...with the slight difference being Emma Frost effect on him could still be further explored before doing it.

The thing is i dont think characters primarily defined by their relationships can gain much from moving to another relationship. Like Rogue going from Ganbit to a full relationship with Magneto didnt do much for her....especially in comparison to her period of being alone.

The thing is that no one wants to read about a relationship that isnt special. Something has to make it seem important. For Scott and Jean its that "we are iconic, strong and destined" feeling. Lobdell (who once again seems to have dodged my ish list) did good better then Claremont in realizing that. But thats anothet problem with Claremont. Hes an agent of change....which is great and something we may need right now....but it means he could write the most iconic story or characters ever and treat it and then like its just another day at the office. The same things that draw you towards and provide the pillars of the franchise, he just sees as more toys to play with. Its not wrong just not always wanted.

#$@% Nightcrawler and anyone who supports him.

@sprior93: Go back to your rock Sprior

@koays: come with me

@sprior93: Ok i will!

Not really. You're saying that Wolverine being in a relationship with a established female character would essentially ruin her. To that I say; what about Yukio? Wolverine's relationship with her is what made her. It may of been short lived, but it was done pretty good up until the betrayal at the end. It's still possible for Wolverine to have a equal relationship with a established character, tho I don't know if it will ever happen.

My point was that its noticeable not that she gets a particular story arc. Just that when the narrative takes time to focus on Storm its you notice that its going back to her when ever we get a "Storm takes charge moment". Storm tangents during the Outback Era grate my senses more then a issue about how shes a Draculas perfect bride or an arc where shes a child or learns to be independent. Its that kid in class who spent the whole day yesterday talking nonstop and the next day raises their hand again. Even if its just to go to the bathroom ut tiring.

I don't get what you're saying here. Storm was barely used during the Australian outback. The stars were Rogue and Wolverine and even Longshot and Dazzler would get more character development than Storm. Storm along with Wolverine were treated as the veterans that kept the team together. Storm's take charge moments didn't seem any different than Cyclops'.

Xtreme was by far worse. Aside from the constant "Am i doing the right thing?/Your Storn of course your right!" I think by the second to last arc she was having field trips away from the cast only to have toncome back and save them since their helpless without her. Its just exhausting.

They had a lot of "are we doing the right thing" moments in X-Treme, it wasn't just Storm. The only person to reply with somthing along the lines of "of course you are because you're Storm" was Beast, and it is in character for him to hype people up like that. He does it for everybody.

I honestly think Jeans a character that can grow from a period of being on her own outside of a relationship, more then by just pairing her with someone else. Cyke is in a similar boat...with the slight difference being Emma Frost effect on him could still be further explored before doing it.

Everyone is capable of growing from being on their own, but everyone is also capable of growing from being in a relationship.

The thing is i dont think characters primarily defined by their relationships can gain much from moving to another relationship. Like Rogue going from Ganbit to a full relationship with Magneto didnt do much for her....especially in comparison to her period of being alone.

I don't know what you're getting at here. It's like you're using that one bad example to imply that second relationships are not as good as the first, or being alone after the first. If that is what you're getting at, it is a flawed argument. You yourself said that Catwoman was your otp for Batman, and that was what, his tenth relationship? Mary Jane was at least Spider-Man's fifth. And I'm sure that people are capable of seeing somthing special in some of the relationships that came before and after those.

But thats anothet problem with Claremont. Hes an agent of change....which is great and something we may need right now....but it means he could write the most iconic story or characters ever and treat it and then like its just another day at the office. The same things that draw you towards and provide the pillars of the franchise, he just sees as more toys to play with. Its not wrong just not always wanted.

Change is always good. If you take away all change, then you're left with Jason Aaron's X-Men.

The only reason that Jean and Cyclops was iconic is because Claremont made them so. Who's to say that he couldn't of done the same thing with a different relationship?

This thread is just weird.

@revan2424: That's how we like it 'round here.