I'm a huge X-Men fan but didn't read their titles again until New X-Men. And even then I didn't read consistently until around Second Coming. I know Chuck's run is universally hated by X-fans. I have a friend that's a long time reader/fan who loved Austen's run. This boggles my mind, because most die hards I know have the same level of anathema towards him that Spider-Man fans have for Joe Quesada. So to all of you who read it I ask, was it all that bad? Was it bad at all. was Chucky boy just misunderstood? 

i havent read it but it seems like people hate him more than joe q. idk why either haha but its pretty bad. im surprised your friend said he liked it, thats a first ive heard

" @zombietag:  The kicker is that he straight up and down hates Astonishing X-Men, even Whedon's acclaimed run.  "

" @JonesDeini said:

" @zombietag:  The kicker is that he straight up and down hates Astonishing X-Men, even Whedon's acclaimed run.  "

who? chuck dixon? thats pretty lame, but i have to say that creators opinions of books shouldnt affect whether or not you like their work. but i guess if you think they have bad judgement, it might be hard to read their stuff with an unbiased opinion "

" @zombietag said:

" @JonesDeini said:

" @zombietag:  The kicker is that he straight up and down hates Astonishing X-Men, even Whedon's acclaimed run.  "

who? chuck dixon? thats pretty lame, but i have to say that creators opinions of books shouldnt affect whether or not you like their work. but i guess if you think they have bad judgement, it might be hard to read their stuff with an unbiased opinion "

I think he meant his friend hates Astonishing. "

I liked it. BUT it was the first X-Men comics that I ever read, I wasn't that familiar with the characters or the continuity.

" @JonesDeini: I'm always just amazed how many people have not even read his x-men run but jump on the hate bandwagon because of "Juggy bangs she's hulk" or some other crap! He at least tried to do character work while Craption just collects mutants like a pokemaniac. I guess cameo queens beat characterization as far as the modern x-men reader is concerned. "

" Do you mean Chuck Austen? "

Chuck Dixon? X-Men? Uh what issues?

I like him more than Fraction, I like him about as much as I liked Brubaker's (maybe a bit less) run. He tried going for character strong stories, but his characterization was pretty weak, and he basically delved into tired overplayed tropes and he messed around with some fundamentals of characters. Why take a fairly original, and unique, albeit character like Juggernaut and turn him into a generic bad guy gone good, Colossus stand in? Juggs was one of Marvels best villains for a really good reason. Have him appeal to new fans who never appreciated the original character? Ugh, plus so many of his plots... he really didn't do his research. For many NC fans, it was a clever and poignant twist he was mistaken for a demon, because looks can be deceiving, thats what the creator of the character intended, but yeah... another writer decides if he looks like a demon? His father must look like a demon. I guess iceman's father is Sub Zero now too.  
 
So much more just... the Draco. Some of the Husk Angel stuff was okay, but you know, *that* scene, sorta sours peoples opinion on the whole thing. His Stacy X was patchy too. There have been much better X-Writers. I liked his War Machine and Avengers more. 

" @SC Fairly certain they're talking about Austen. "

" I like him more than Fraction, I like him about as much as I liked Brubaker's (maybe a bit less) run. He tried going for character strong stories, but his characterization was pretty weak, and he basically delved into tired overplayed tropes and he messed around with some fundamentals of characters. Why take a fairly original, and unique, albeit character like Juggernaut and turn him into a generic bad guy gone good, Colossus stand in? Juggs was one of Marvels best villains for a really good reason. Have him appeal to new fans who never appreciated the original character? Ugh, plus so many of his plots... he really didn't do his research. For many NC fans, it was a clever and poignant twist he was mistaken for a demon, because looks can be deceiving, thats what the creator of the character intended, but yeah... another writer decides if he looks like a demon? His father must look like a demon. I guess iceman's father is Sub Zero now too.   So much more just... the Draco. Some of the Husk Angel stuff was okay, but you know, *that* scene, sorta sours peoples opinion on the whole thing. His Stacy X was patchy too. There have been much better X-Writers. I liked his War Machine and Avengers more.  "

" @Ryonslaught said:

" @JonesDeini: I'm always just amazed how many people have not even read his x-men run but jump on the hate bandwagon because of "Juggy bangs she's hulk" or some other crap! He at least tried to do character work while Craption just collects mutants like a pokemaniac. I guess cameo queens beat characterization as far as the modern x-men reader is concerned. "

...you're awesome. And I'm so stealing "Craption" "

" @The Dark Huntress said:

" @Ryonslaught said:

" @JonesDeini: I'm always just amazed how many people have not even read his x-men run but jump on the hate bandwagon because of "Juggy bangs she's hulk" or some other crap! He at least tried to do character work while Craption just collects mutants like a pokemaniac. I guess cameo queens beat characterization as far as the modern x-men reader is concerned. "

...you're awesome. And I'm so stealing "Craption" "

Ditto, lady. Fraction has NO GRASP WHATSOEVER of the X-Men aside from Scott & Emma. I love the guy, really do. But he and Brubaker's X-Men stuff was definitely more down than up.  "

" @The Dark Huntress:  During 5 Lights (which I stopped after 3 issues) he TOTALLY butchered Emma. Overall I think he does a solid job with her, not great, but certainly not terrible. I think the way he handled her during Quarantine was good, though I honestly think Gillen had more to do with that than Fraction.  "

" @The Dark Huntress:  Did you read it as TPB, or ongoing? It reads way better as Trade. (Rise and Fall)    Anyway, back to Chuck, even though he has and was critical of fans, even he criticized himself about misploting and mischaracterizing characters. I mean, I admire him for that too lol, I wish cerian other writers would take his example and follow suit... (lol)  "

" @JonesDeini said:

" @The Dark Huntress:  During 5 Lights (which I stopped after 3 issues) he TOTALLY butchered Emma. Overall I think he does a solid job with her, not great, but certainly not terrible. I think the way he handled her during Quarantine was good, though I honestly think Gillen had more to do with that than Fraction.  "

I'm gonna disagree with you on that one. He's been writing her not as Cyclops's partner, but as his subordinate. As the over-emotional housewife who just sits there and takes orders. That's not Emma at all.  "

" @SC: TPB. I got it for like...18 dollars in brand new condition. ^_^ "

" Joe Quesada...Judd Winick...Grant Morrison... "

" @JonesDeini said:

" @The Dark Huntress:  During 5 Lights (which I stopped after 3 issues) he TOTALLY butchered Emma. Overall I think he does a solid job with her, not great, but certainly not terrible. I think the way he handled her during Quarantine was good, though I honestly think Gillen had more to do with that than Fraction.  "

I'm gonna disagree with you on that one. He's been writing her not as Cyclops's partner, but as his subordinate. As the over-emotional housewife who just sits there and takes orders. That's not Emma at all.  "

" @SC:  I want Havoc BACK FROM SPACE!!!   At the end of the day I think the big issue with Brubaker/Fraction's X-men is that they are fundamentally character and not team writers.  "

" @Ryonslaught:  True, I still enjoy them from time to time but fully recognize they're not nearly what they could be. And now that I've thought about it I must say that Emma's being Scott's do girl bothers me. Scott having 90% of the say doesn't work for me. They're dynamic worked best when their control was 50/50.  "

" @The Dark Huntress said:

" @JonesDeini said:

" @The Dark Huntress:  During 5 Lights (which I stopped after 3 issues) he TOTALLY butchered Emma. Overall I think he does a solid job with her, not great, but certainly not terrible. I think the way he handled her during Quarantine was good, though I honestly think Gillen had more to do with that than Fraction.  "

I'm gonna disagree with you on that one. He's been writing her not as Cyclops's partner, but as his subordinate. As the over-emotional housewife who just sits there and takes orders. That's not Emma at all.  "

Where have you been all my life? XD
 
@JonesDeini said:

" @SC:  I want Havoc BACK FROM SPACE!!!   At the end of the day I think the big issue with Brubaker/Fraction's X-men is that they are fundamentally character and not team writers.  "

Yup Craption def works better on a singular character....he is clueless about how to write a team book! Brubaker? I liked his short run....it moved the universe dynamic and brought Thunderbird into the mainstream x-men cast. I'm not holding my breath that after Craption leaves things will get much better though :(  Big shake ups need to take place! Not just "oh we follow wolvie" and "so and so follow scott" A writer needs to recognize that The X-men is NOT SCOTT AND WOLVERINE! Emma Frost and Storm have lead and are strong enough to lead the mutant nation! Storm needs to move away from being token black to the queen/goddess/alpha female she once was Emma needs characterization which harkens back to Grant and Whedon until then the x-books are going nowhere soon! "

The Draco is quite possibly the most horrible X-Men story I've ever read. Ever.

" The Draco is quite possibly the most horrible X-Men story I've ever read. Ever. "

" @Alternaut:  Wow...that's a bold claim lol "

" @Alternaut said:

" The Draco is quite possibly the most horrible X-Men story I've ever read. Ever. "

Reallyyyyyyyyyyyy? "

" @Alternaut: I've never read it. Explain to me what was so bad about it.  "

"  I'm a huge X-Men fan but didn't read their titles again until New X-Men. And even then I didn't read consistently until around Second Coming. I know Chuck's run is universally hated by X-fans. I have a friend that's a long time reader/fan who loved Austen's run. This boggles my mind, because most die hards I know have the same level of anathema towards him that Spider-Man fans have for Joe Quesada. So to all of you who read it I ask, was it all that bad? Was it bad at all. was Chucky boy just misunderstood?  "

 
I thought the entire point of Draco was that Azazel could only stay on Earth for brief periods and fathered all of his children to create a permanent gateway to Earth? 

"  I thought the entire point of Draco was that Azazel could only stay on Earth for brief periods and fathered all of his children to create a permanent gateway to Earth?  "

"@Jake Fury said:

"  I thought the entire point of Draco was that Azazel could only stay on Earth for brief periods and fathered all of his children to create a permanent gateway to Earth?  "

I'd have to re-read it, but I don't want to. Don't make me, please. ):  One thing that really pissed me off was Iceman's willingness to kill that one chick rather than reconstitute himself from something else. Like people's pee. That's one thing that irked me...it's one thing that seemingly stuck with Iceman's character after Austen's run, too. "

" @Alternaut:  @The Dark Huntress:   Two words... oh and when I mean two words, I mean two male organs of a particular type, and how Nightcrawler has two... well, "three tails" 0_o  (lol) Austen you crazy dreamer...  "