oh, I dunno. I guess it just doesn't strike me as being that weird or out there for an X-men comic.

I only started paying attention to what other fans liked or didn't around Regenesis, so I don't have a lot to draw from, but there's always going to be some people that don't like it. When I started reading in '92, a little after Claremont left (is that old-school?), but while his stories were still in monthly reprints, a lot of people seemed to think it was the worst time for X-men. And reading his early 80's stuff alongside the contemporary early 90's stuff, I felt this was probably the case.

In retrospect though, I still think the early 90's stuff after him was better than a lot of what he did in the late 80's, so now I appreciate where the book(s) went. Having read almost all of the main X-men books ever printed, I would definitely not consider right now one of the worst periods. Not even close. I actually think things have gotten better.

For starters, we have a lot more choice with what styles of X-men we read. Aaron's going for a more comic-booky late 70's/early 80's style, Wood's doing a mid 80's/early 90's character drama thing, Uncanny X-Men is doing a re-imagining of the premise like Morrison did, but with it's own distinct vision, All-new' is the far-out future adventures of the 60's team, the new X-force looks like edgy-90's greatest hits, and so forth. So we kind of have the option to choose between the styles of different eras, like X-fans have never had before. For what each book is, even if some may be better than others, there's still way more X-men comics I enjoy coming out now than ever before.

Personally, I've had my fill of All-new'. But I do really like Uncanny X-Men, I think it may be one of the best X-men series in years, and Bendis is writing that. Aaron I'm way more hot and cold on, but I do like some of it. And even if I didn't, I don't think it would be fair to say that this era is worse because of them. Wood's writing Storm's team in X-men, and that's sort of my frame of reference for the team, so I think of that book as being just as central as what Bendis is doing in Uncanny', and more central than anything Aaron's doing. And I like that book

For me, it had nothing to do with how weird it was that she survived this crazy experience and went back to her normal life (of other weird problems), like I say, that kind of weird isn't weird for the X-men. It was more how they tried to get two birds stoned at once; that her return was as much a story about Magneto trying to redeem himself as it was about her being back. You're probably right that Kitty should have had more to do with the story if they were going to bring her back, but the way they did it still could have worked; I mean, Kitty and Magneto used to be friends, she's indirectly responsible for him turning away from villainy in the first place, and they don't even talk about it after. nothing, not even a thank you or anything.

now that Bendis has them sort of on the same team again, he has the opportunity to do something with that; either through a flashback to Utopia or some explanatory exchange between them. Maybe it's not worth trying to fix, but I think I'd appreciate the acknowledgement behind it. It would certainly be an appropriate starting point for developing their relationship at least.

I don't disagree that there might be a better story to tell to bring him back, or a better way to tell this one.

But I can't appreciate something for what it is by judging it based on what it's not.

Knowing Bendis if Kitty and Magneto was to have conversation acknowledging the past, they might end up sleeping together and becoming a couple. He seems to like pissing the serious fans off sometimes

sometimes ?

@avenger85: all right all right. Im pissed all the time with him. But I thought it was only me.lol

All New X-Men is going nowhere fast but Uncanny is great.

Me too lol.

I think you actually nailed down the main point of where are the present books right now and why me, and the way I've seen, many other fans feel "cheated", the books are pretty much repeating themselves (from different points of time, using comics terminology). The only progress I've seen is Cyclops' Revolution supporters, humans that actually go out of doors to support a controversial team, and I really like it. Anything else, not really, oh maybe Legacy but I yet have to read it. A new direction could be a little dangerous, but the world belong to those who dare :)

I am with you on that, I think they should have given her more time to express her feeling and to fit in (morally), to make it feel more natural, but Fraction was mostly a shallow writer, one of the reasons he wasn't good.

Hopefully, you're right, this interaction suggests itself for a good couple of years.

Depends on what you're looking for.

See, so from the perspective that Bendis is actually going in a new direction in Uncanny', he's probably the least guilty of repeating old stories. But that hasn't stopped fans from hating what he's doing.

People want something new, but they won't give his new characters/direction a chance because they aren't the characters/direction they want to see. But he also gives people what they say they want by bringing back old characters like Jean Grey and Angel, and it's still not good enough, still somehow not "the real Jean". And in the case of both books, he gets flack for not using the New X-Men instead, as if that has anything at all to do with the stories he is telling.

This is sort of my point about not appreciating something for what it's not. If you're looking for a book to be a specific thing, as in a thing that appeals to your own ideas about what should be central to the stories, it's easy to criticize any book for not meeting your expectations. But how can it? and why should it? Genuine criticism should be based on what something is, not what it's not.

I think Fraction had some cool ideas for stories, but yeah, overall his era is one of my least favorite. While I do think he's a decent writer, I think he made the mistake of trying to appeal to too many people's desire to see their favorite characters be X-men, ultimately disappointing almost everyone because it meant that not only was there not enough development/reason behind most of these characters, but the team became so big that most of them became background characters if they were even around at all. Magneto and Kitty were both classic X-men, so of course they had to come back, but the reason to bring them back was largely wasted in that context.

The decision to make Cyclops and Emma the center of this huge team was organic enough, in that, after Morrison, Whedon, and even New X-men, and with Wolverine being shared with the Avengers, they really had become the most central characters. But because the team tried to appeal to every fan (of every era), it ultimately had no defining character of it's own other than that it was their (Cyclops and Emma's) team.

Of course, after all that, it made sense to separate Cyclops' Utopian inner circle from the rest of the X-men, so that both he and the rest of the X-men could do their own thing, his inner circle forced in a new direction, while the other X-men try to get back to what they were trying to do as X-men in the first place. From the perspective of the overall story, it has worked out pretty organically.

Just because Bendis is trying to do something "new" in creating characters, doesn't mean he's actually doing a good job in the creation. Of course that is only my opinion and while Im not seeking to anger anyone who's in love with his characters but I think he's done a lousy job.

I guess I happen to be in the minority when I mention that I dislike Goldballs ( I mean what is that?) and that Deeds comes off as a low budget wannabe Mystique. Almost as if someone decided that Mystique should have always been a member of the Xmen and so in order to get that we get Deeds. Triage is a also a bad rip-off imo. I know Angel had healing powers and someone could argue that Elixir is a repeat of that. But Angel was primarily known for flight and his wings. Also Elixir's backstory starting out against mutants and that constant feeling of him not fitting anywhere was good writing imo. Plus I would Elixir's potential is far more interesting. I mean this guy could possibly restore or give powers to people or even take them away. Also he was created years after Angel. Its just hard to accept that Elixir is just off in la-la land somewhere and now we got another healer in his place. That just seems arbitrary and unnecessary. Honestly instead of creating these new mutants after AVX, I find that I would have preferred that mutants remain endangered and allow the Generation Hope stuff to continue and be fleshed out, incorporating the New Xmen into those stories.

In addition to thinking about Bendis' so-called new direction. The revolutionary team, which is taking a long time to actually get to a revolution, is not a terrible idea. It's just the execution that warrants at least some criticism. In fact I've always felt that Gillen's idea of the Extinction team was one of the most groundbreaking and fresh ideas in a long time. I wish we had a continuation of that team, even if we got replacements for the originals. Then we could have a separate revolutionary team/book working almost directly in harmony with that Extinction team.

Its just hard to get behind the constant introduction of new characters while others are being pushed into limbo, only to realize that in a few years the same current new characters will get the same treatment and be pushed into limbo as well for a whole new batch. Though one may quote that as the history of the xmen franchise, that doesn't make it any less.. for lack of a better word.. bad. that kind of stuff needs to change, there are just too many X-characters floating around out there, ones that were introduced with interesting powers/potential, even some with incomplete backstories and stories left unfinished, to be pushing them off into limbo, for new characters that seem poorly thought-out and poorly written. As much as some people didn't like it, Avengers Arena had somewhat of the right idea seemingly trying to clean up the marvel universe by disposing of the excess. Hate to say it that way but really should we care about the new additions to the already seemingly thousands of Xmen say for instance that we currently have.

I would totes be behind Cyclops' revolution idea if Gillen was the one to headline it. As boring as i thought his actual run was on Uncanny, Consequences was quite enjoyable and he laid some enticing seeds towards the end. Why they had to go and get Bendis to headline it...i will never truly understand.

No kitty and magneto conversations becuase they dont want chemistry between them, lol. Like be the new Magneto and Rogue.

Again, the idea of liking new characters is becoming dangerous because traditionally, you know they will be thrown into limbo, so why bother? I wasn't an ANXM supporter since the beginning so not guilty, the whole concept is about beating the dead horse, and as I always repeat myself - not in my case as well. With the Uncanny, the only complain would be the slow rhythm of the actual direction, which after 16 issues we still cannot really say what it is! Don't say it is biased, because I just gave the main and actual "why" it isn't.

As the result, it was executed quite well, of course besides the Wolverine's side, although I don't want another of this debate, I'll say I can actually understand why it was Wolverine who "invented" the side of opposition. Anyways some Fraction's ideas were good, but the way he wrote characters unnatural and they were more of shells than actual persons, which I hated plus that art by Dodson and Land, it was the formula of failure in the end lol.

@hawk2916:

Man I don't know what you're talking about, Goldballs is a badass. I see in him something symbolical to all this period of character creation lol

I do agree about Elixir, he could be much more than he showed us. I also had this thought of him being able to be that man that can revive the X-gene, but it's too late to be exploited... or not, since the depowered ones won't be repowered by natural process.

I agree in general btw.

Well everyone has their bias, and if you aren't digging the book then you aren't digging the book. Though I'm personally loving the direction of Uncanny', pacing, tone, and all, I do get that not everything's for everyone.

You bring up a point that I've seen others bring up lately, though, that I would like to address, which is this idea that if you don't think characters will last beyond a certain point, why bother enjoying them?

To this I would say why bother enjoying anything? Just because something may or may not be relevant ten years from now doesn't make it any more or less enjoyable right now. I really enjoyed Generation X when I was fourteen, but given that half of the original New Mutants were dead or in limbo by then, I certainly had no illusions about Gen'X still being a thing by the time I was 24. They were the new students of my generation, that's all.

Now it seems like those characters are coming back, like many of the New Mutants did ten years ago, and that is really cool; but half of why it's cool is that I didn't know if any of them would ever be back.

@adamtrmm: I really dont get the fascination with Goldballs. I guess it really is just me. Coincidentally I think Im might be the only one that is not a fan of Chris Bachalo's art. Guess Im weird that way, but I tend to like a more serious tone in my comics with the occasional joke or quip. I mean I do like Iceman. Goldballs for me just represents that silly tone that I hate as if someone is trying to make a mockery of my favorite franchise.

And that's exactly the circle I'd like to be stopped from spinning around, why is this trend of unforgotten "forgettable" characters is so wrong. At least I'd like to see an in-continuity explanation for the disappearance, though I don't think I wouldn't be angered by Academy X Arena lol

QFT

@hopesummersforthefuture: yh, that's what I meant -_-

you know who's both kind of forgettable and kind of great? Rictor. I never really thought much of him until he was on X-Factor, I have no idea what he was doing between X-force and X-factor, and I actually don't care if I ever know, y'know?

That's my problem with starting to read X-Factor, the lineup consists mostly of characters I don't really get or interested. Guess we aren't thinking about the same are we?

People actually expect Bendis to write good stories? That's a laugh. He's a hack who only knows how to write one kind of character and his plots have been contrived and nonsensical since Disassembled. Ultimate Spider Man is the only good thing he's ever written

Thats a shame but then again Marvel Loves Bendis. Cant wait till he goes away.

@hopesummersforthefuture: 100% agree with this. That day cant come soon enough for me. He can take Aaron with him too

Maybe I'm weird but this is the most fun I've had reading an x-men story in years! Is it a masterpiece? No, far from it. For me the x-men's last great story arc ended after Here Comes Tomorrow.

The weird thing for me is that I almost never like Bendis stories!

I didn't like how they handled Kitty's return either. I would have thought that she would have developed some kind of fear of being in space or she would had tried to deal with being alive again. That's why I loved the way that Joss Whedon handled Colossus' feelings about coming back from the dead because we actually get to see Colossus trying to get used to being alive and how he was pondering about what his purpose in life was (or something to that degree). I actually wished the X-Men stories after Kitty Pryde was released from the bullet actually showed a bit of Kitty's insecurities about being brought back to Earth.

Fraction sucked in personalities and details, and that's exactly the combination of two lol

Awesome thread timing, but everything was said and done already.

I was like bruh, how as dis necroed ?

But yeah, he has NOT delivered on what he promised.

@adamtrmm said:

@avenger85 said:

I was like bruh, how as dis necroed ?

But yeah, he has NOT delivered on what he promised.

That is the current state of the X-Franchise.

@avenger85 said:

@adamtrmm said:

@avenger85 said:

I was like bruh, how as dis necroed ?

But yeah, he has NOT delivered on what he promised.

That is the current state of the X-Franchise.

I wonder who's to blame...

/thread

@adamtrmm: Not Bendis. But Disney & Marvel. I've stopped buying X-books and any other Marvel related products for awhile now.

@avenger85:

Honestly, I can't believe that Bendis was ever c*ckblocked by powers that be during his run, it's nothing but his creative impotence to blame. He clearly didn't have much plans beyond "look I can make some convoluted time travel shenanigans, of course create a POV time-manipulator Mary Ben.. I mean Sue (that will get the main push) cause I'm Bendis and that's what I do! But I can also show them all how progressive I am and make all tumblr pseudo-social warriors support me with outing some character I write. Why? Because they send me some out of context scans and I'll make the ultimate pandering fan service right here, because in fact I have nothing truly worthy to say instead".

MF had an officially dying Marvel Universe as hi play-yard and look what we got. Disney has nothing to do with sh!tty writing.

This run wasn't for me

@adamtrmm: The whole pandering to SJWs & hyper-PCness campaign thing has been going on with Marvel and DC for quite sometime now. Disney is notorious for this. Marvel's been doing it hardcore since they got acquired by Disney.

Bendis isn't the only one. Although they might not have ordered him to make those exact decisions, he being PC as he is, the higher ups must have just supported him & patted him on the back for these decisions ( specially Iceman's as it's gone completely against his established canon over decades ). They had the power and authority to not let him go ahead with the Iceman thing. Instead they encourage that crap.

I blame Marvel & Disney for taking NO action to stop these stupid decisions from Bendis, not the other way round.

Disney is right up there with EA these days.

i think it was the first time before phoenix saga we can watch jean shine so it was very nice to watch her, so i think it was amazing

I didn't read much of his run, so I voted Forever Evil... I really liked that story... lotta fun... villains just takin ova... just not givin a cluck... just good evil times of evilness...

...What were we talking about? kinda got off track

@avenger85:

No denial in that Disney\Marvel is pushing diversity for the sake of it in an absolutely tasteless way (American/Western PC way), and I agree that it is more than obvious that Iceman's swap has become possible most likely due to this pandering policy, BUT, I'm also 100% sure no one really pushed Bendis to make that move, so you can't really blame editorial for accepting main writer's ideas, especially the ones that fit their current mandates. You can blame BOTH, but Bendis is the cause, not the other way around.

In defense of Bendis.... A lot of His strong points early on are clearly still his strong points, the only thing is now people can no longer (or would rather not) defend his stronger points due to the rushed ending of his run.

For all the complaining, debating and nitpicking about his story choices everything in Uncanny is still considerably good until you reach the last issue of the Will and Testament.

Now does it take the fault away from him, because he was forced to wrap up early? No, his pacing and failure to meet deadlines is his own fault and only compounds issues with characterization he faced.

But it should be noted that when we speak about the run that, Bendis clearly had more he wanted to do and that we may never see some of these elements explored doesn't take away from the loads of potential that they had should he have completed it.

Oh of course. no one pushed Bendis to make that change. That was his own idea. Had it been the old Marvel days before the whole SJW horseshit started happening, the editorial would have stopped him cold lol.

Yeah I loved that event too. The option is there in the poll cuz I made the poll right when Forever Evil began.

I felt everything seemed off and almost pointless when the O5 joined team Cyclops....

Also he didn't develop half of his cast. Aside from Eva-- most of his new mutants were very redundant... And I wanted more from Emma. There were many moments where it felt like the plot wasn't going anywhere or the characters seemed voiced horribly off.
I liked his vision of Cyclops, Magik, Iceman and Dazzler. And Snatching Kitty from XX-men was a bad move.
I NEED him to also have Rachel be a bigger role in this. Too much Grey and Summers drama and Rachel like 'whatever'...

But after AvX ended that was his chance to blow the doors off X-men and create something never done before-- This ended up being a big let down. :(

Again, in his defense....their could've been(and arguably was considering the O5 needed to hear Cyclops' side of things) a good reason from a long term planning point, to add the 05 to the mix since they shared a setting but didn't really have more then one short arc where they interacted.

Pretty much agree with everything else though.

In our defense, of course a Storm fangirl didn't like the O5 leaving Storm's fail school. At least they got to do SOMETHING when they joined Cyclops, instead of remaining worthless like the the JGS staff & students.