Has Bendis delivered on what he promised ?

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Posted by Eeshaan1685 (3517 posts) 2 years, 10 months ago

Poll: Has Bendis delivered on what he promised ? (60 votes)

Yes, he gave us exactly what he promised and met or surpassed the Hype 20%
Nope. I'm disappointed. 53%
Forever Evil 27%

So lets see, disastrous consequences to the timestream for bringing the O5 ? Nope. Does Beast get at least SOME sort of punishment for pulling off that stunt, from Cyclops or anyone else ? Nope. Do we get a good amount of interaction between Rachel, Cable and young Cyke/Jean ? Nope, just a panel or two in one issue and a few spoken sentences in another.

Did anything major come out of the hype for one of the O5 leaving for Cyclops team ? Absolutely not. The O5 are back together as if nothing happened. Was BOTA the awesome event that radically changes everything like Bendis said it would ? In my opinon, far from it. Did Kitty Pryde's move to Cyclops' team make any sense whatsoever ? Not to me. And what about the X-Men from the future ? What happened to them ? Nothing.

Honestly I think Bendis' stories are decent. They're entertaining, but the whole hype of the O5 coming to the future is dead. They just don't meet the hype that the solicitations create. I think Bendis should just send the O5 back to their own time ASAP, give them a mindwipe and be done with Time-Travel stories for good.

My 2 cents.

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#1 Posted by kidchipotle (15478 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Bendis is really good writer, I love most of his work that I've read, but I do admit his run on X-Men has been lackluster. I'm hoping post-BoTA will bring good stories and such now that they're officially sanctioned in the MU.

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#2 Posted by Eeshaan1685 (3517 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Bendis is really good writer, I love most of his work that I've read, but I do admit his run on X-Men has been lackluster. I'm hoping post-BoTA will bring good stories and such now that they're officially sanctioned in the MU.

Officially sanctioned ? You mean the O5 will not be going back to their time anytime soon ? Where did you read that lol.

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#3 Posted by kidchipotle (15478 posts) - - Show Bio

@arturocalakayvee said:

I think Bendis is really good writer, I love most of his work that I've read, but I do admit his run on X-Men has been lackluster. I'm hoping post-BoTA will bring good stories and such now that they're officially sanctioned in the MU.

Officially sanctioned ? You mean the O5 will not be going back to their time anytime soon ? Where did you read that lol.

The O5 are staying in the MU permanently. It's been confirmed all over.

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#4 Edited by Eeshaan1685 (3517 posts) - - Show Bio

@arturocalakayvee said:

@avenger85 said:

@arturocalakayvee said:

I think Bendis is really good writer, I love most of his work that I've read, but I do admit his run on X-Men has been lackluster. I'm hoping post-BoTA will bring good stories and such now that they're officially sanctioned in the MU.

Officially sanctioned ? You mean the O5 will not be going back to their time anytime soon ? Where did you read that lol.

The O5 are staying in the MU permanently. It's been confirmed all over.

lol nope. Bendis has not stated that they will be staying in the current 616 continuity forever. They HAVE to go back at some point. Would appreciate it if you could provide a source to a statement ( twitter etc.) from Bendis where he explicitly states that the O5 are here to stay for good.

If they do stay, then that is absolutely ridiculous. Makes no sense whatsoever, but that's Marvel for you lol.

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#5 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (5839 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenger85:

They only made Kitty(weak excuse in BotA) join Cyclops team to move the O5 there so there would be alot of DRAMA with teen jean/emma, Teen cyke/cyclops. Teen jean/Cyclops, Magneto/ teen beast, Teen jean/Phoebe cuckoo, etc.

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#6 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (5839 posts) - - Show Bio

@arturocalakayvee said:

@avenger85 said:

@arturocalakayvee said:

I think Bendis is really good writer, I love most of his work that I've read, but I do admit his run on X-Men has been lackluster. I'm hoping post-BoTA will bring good stories and such now that they're officially sanctioned in the MU.

Officially sanctioned ? You mean the O5 will not be going back to their time anytime soon ? Where did you read that lol.

The O5 are staying in the MU permanently. It's been confirmed all over.

lol nope. Bendis has not stated that they will be staying in the current 616 continuity forever. They HAVE to go back at some point. Would appreciate it if you could provide a source to a statement ( twitter etc.) from Bendis where he explicitly states that the O5 are here to stay for good.

If they do stay, then that is absolutely ridiculous. Makes no sense whatsoever, but that's Marvel for you lol.

Yeah agreed they have to go back to there own time once beast solves it. Also when there are no more stories for the o5 then they will go back but i think the all-new x-men book is just too popular now. My theory of BotA was if all-new x-men had low sales they would have gone back to there time but since there popular they get to stay.

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#7 Posted by oldnightcrawler (5695 posts) - - Show Bio

To be fair, just about every book marvel puts out would have to be a seminal masterpiece to live up to the way that they hype any of them.

I agree that All-New X-Men really lost me with BotA. I didn't and don't have a problem with bringing the "O5" to the present if it's to make fun stories, and I did enjoy the first 15 issues or so, but I haven't really been interested in the direction of the book since. I think the premise of them staying around could be cool, but personally, I'd rather they let Mike Costa write the book. He did a great "O5" story in The Arms of The Octopus crossover that actually made me glad that they would be staying around, whereas Bendis' direction for the book is becoming less interesting to me all the time.

No Caption Provided

That said, and with the exception of BotA, his run on Uncanny X-Men has more than surpassed my expectations, and is actually becoming one of my favorite X-men books in years. Other than the BotA issues, I've thoroughly enjoyed every issue of this series.

Anyway, that's why I didn't vote. I agree with your main point about All-new X-men, that's why I stopped reading it. But he's also writing one of the best X-men books in years with Uncanny, which, to my mind, has lived up to the hype and more than makes up for a book that I don't even read anymore.

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#8 Posted by kidchipotle (15478 posts) - - Show Bio

@arturocalakayvee said:

@avenger85 said:

@arturocalakayvee said:

I think Bendis is really good writer, I love most of his work that I've read, but I do admit his run on X-Men has been lackluster. I'm hoping post-BoTA will bring good stories and such now that they're officially sanctioned in the MU.

Officially sanctioned ? You mean the O5 will not be going back to their time anytime soon ? Where did you read that lol.

The O5 are staying in the MU permanently. It's been confirmed all over.

lol nope. Bendis has not stated that they will be staying in the current 616 continuity forever. They HAVE to go back at some point. Would appreciate it if you could provide a source to a statement ( twitter etc.) from Bendis where he explicitly states that the O5 are here to stay for good.

If they do stay, then that is absolutely ridiculous. Makes no sense whatsoever, but that's Marvel for you lol.

Apologies. While typing to you I was getting ready to go out so I was short handed and quick but now it's nearly a blizzard outside so I'm staying in. I'm nearly positive it was confirmed by Bendis on his tumblr that the O5 are sticking around. They're making Marvel tons of money currently with ANXM so I can't imagine Marvel not milking it for what it's worth. Also, them staying definitely does seem plausible, at least to me, due to Marvel seems to like to have tons of alternate characters roam the 616U.

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#9 Edited by Eeshaan1685 (3517 posts) - - Show Bio

@hopesummersforthefuture: Yes. And the reason for sending her was terrible and just came out of nowhere. Not impressed with Bendis' writing anymore. DC's Forever Evil event is far better than all events that Bendis has written till now, COMBINED. At least there they actually make massive universe-changing decisions.

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#10 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (5839 posts) - - Show Bio

BotA was alot of hot-air. I had high hopes for it but it stinked. Although it would have been better if that xorn/jean was the real jean and not teen jean grown-up. Dammit marvel did it again, another tease.

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#11 Edited by Eeshaan1685 (3517 posts) - - Show Bio

To be fair, just about every book marvel puts out would have to be a seminal masterpiece to live up to the way that they hype any of them.

I agree that All-New X-Men really lost me with BotA. I didn't and don't have a problem with bringing the "O5" to the present if it's to make fun stories, and I did enjoy the first 15 issues or so, but I haven't really been interested in the direction of the book since. I think the premise of them staying around could be cool, but personally, I'd rather they let Mike Costa write the book. He did a great "O5" story in The Arms of The Octopus crossover that actually made me glad that they would be staying around, whereas Bendis' direction for the book is becoming less interesting to me all the time.

No Caption Provided

That said, and with the exception of BotA, his run on Uncanny X-Men has more than surpassed my expectations, and is actually becoming one of my favorite X-men books in years. Other than the BotA issues, I've thoroughly enjoyed every issue of this series.

Anyway, that's why I didn't vote. I agree with your main point about All-new X-men, that's why I stopped reading it. But he's also writing one of the best X-men books in years with Uncanny, which, to my mind, has lived up to the hype and more than makes up for a book that I don't even read anymore.

Oh damn, if I could edit the first post and poll, I would be a little more specific. Yes I am enjoying Uncanny too. it is decent and better than ANXM, and didn't have the massive amount of hype that ANXM did.

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#12 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (5839 posts) - - Show Bio

To be fair, just about every book marvel puts out would have to be a seminal masterpiece to live up to the way that they hype any of them.

I agree that All-New X-Men really lost me with BotA. I didn't and don't have a problem with bringing the "O5" to the present if it's to make fun stories, and I did enjoy the first 15 issues or so, but I haven't really been interested in the direction of the book since. I think the premise of them staying around could be cool, but personally, I'd rather they let Mike Costa write the book. He did a great "O5" story in The Arms of The Octopus crossover that actually made me glad that they would be staying around, whereas Bendis' direction for the book is becoming less interesting to me all the time.

No Caption Provided

That said, and with the exception of BotA, his run on Uncanny X-Men has more than surpassed my expectations, and is actually becoming one of my favorite X-men books in years. Other than the BotA issues, I've thoroughly enjoyed every issue of this series.

Anyway, that's why I didn't vote. I agree with your main point about All-new X-men, that's why I stopped reading it. But he's also writing one of the best X-men books in years with Uncanny, which, to my mind, has lived up to the hype and more than makes up for a book that I don't even read anymore.

Plus Bendis writing is slow-paced which i hate. Both all-new x-men and uncanny x-men are slow-paced. When Bendis was writing the Avengers was it slow paced? Anyone know? Also Bendis AvX was slow paced it didnt have to be 12 issues long, plus marvel said it would be out every two weeks then they made it out every 3 or 4 weeks. Uncanny is a new direction, alittle dark but good. I only picked up the good uncanny books like emma teaching deeds how to use his power. I also got the girls night out one but it was a tie-in with inhumanity which was not as good as i thought. Bendis keeps mentioning a good issue for uxm18 on tumblr which i follow alot. Cant wait to get it. :)

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#13 Posted by oldnightcrawler (5695 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh damn, if I could edit the first post and poll, I would be a little more specific. Yes I am enjoying Uncanny too. it is decent and better than ANXM, and didn't have the massive amount of hype that ANXM did.

It was the real challenge, too, since so many people seemed to be against Cyclops' side, and he was introducing a whole cast of new characters with limited star-power. But for me it's made good on him being a head X-men writer; I couldn't give a toss about All-new' one way or the other, but his Uncanny' is both distinct and solid.

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#14 Posted by RaggedScarecrow (1142 posts) - - Show Bio

Here's what really bothers me about All New X-Men: they haven't done anything. In the first 15 issues all they did was wander around the JGS aimlessly and stop Mystique from buying Madripoor (which she did later anyway). Thankfully there relocation to the NXS seems to have remedied this slightly but it's still too little too late. Plus, the completely arbitrary excuse for the O5 not being able to go back makes no sense. They physically have to go back in time, otherwise they completely obliterate the modern X-Men landscape. As a maxi series or a story arc, the concept works, but as an ongoing it makes little sense. I'm probably going to drop the title following the crossover with the Guardians and the only reason I'm sticking around that long is because Bendis nabbed X-23 from Hopeless (and honestly, I'd rather Hopeless write her because at least she sounds like Laura and not some angsty preteen girl).

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#15 Posted by XsPectre28 (760 posts) - - Show Bio

the concept of the story to bring to O5 to the present was good but the story that onfolded around it was poorly written as have alot of X-stories of late

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#16 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (5839 posts) - - Show Bio

Here's what really bothers me about All New X-Men: they haven't done anything. In the first 15 issues all they did was wander around the JGS aimlessly and stop Mystique from buying Madripoor (which she did later anyway). Thankfully there relocation to the NXS seems to have remedied this slightly but it's still too little too late. Plus, the completely arbitrary excuse for the O5 not being able to go back makes no sense. They physically have to go back in time, otherwise they completely obliterate the modern X-Men landscape. As a maxi series or a story arc, the concept works, but as an ongoing it makes little sense. I'm probably going to drop the title following the crossover with the Guardians and the only reason I'm sticking around that long is because Bendis nabbed X-23 from Hopeless (and honestly, I'd rather Hopeless write her because at least she sounds like Laura and not some angsty preteen girl).

I'm still waiting for the teenjean/everyone else drama. Is Emma going to teach jean how to control her power like she helped Rachel??? Yes bendis is making laura into a angsty preteen which i hate and didnt emma always hate x-23? x-23 and the o5 just seems so wrong isnt there enough drama already. No bendis has to try to make teen cyclops and x-23 an item just to trool fans and marvel approves??? Who is in charge of marvel and what is he drinking??? Or maybe blame disney. Teen jean and adult cyclops Ultimate Goodbye(so sad and weird) unless adult jean grey comes back but probably not.

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#17 Posted by Eeshaan1685 (3517 posts) - - Show Bio

@hopesummersforthefuture: Or this could just be a way to usher in an adult Cyclops-Wolverine romance LOL.

But yeah. I've given up all hope in Marvel in general. DC is really stepping up their game and their stories and artwork is far better than anything that Marvel has to offer.

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#18 Posted by AweSam (7527 posts) - - Show Bio

@arturocalakayvee said:

I think Bendis is really good writer, I love most of his work that I've read, but I do admit his run on X-Men has been lackluster. I'm hoping post-BoTA will bring good stories and such now that they're officially sanctioned in the MU.

Officially sanctioned ? You mean the O5 will not be going back to their time anytime soon ? Where did you read that lol.

Look at the All New X-men sales and find out for yourself.

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#19 Posted by RaggedScarecrow (1142 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm still waiting for the teenjean/everyone else drama. Is Emma going to teach jean how to control her power like she helped Rachel??? Yes bendis is making laura into a angsty preteen which i hate and didnt emma always hate x-23? x-23 and the o5 just seems so wrong isnt there enough drama already. No bendis has to try to make teen cyclops and x-23 an item just to trool fans and marvel approves??? Who is in charge of marvel and what is he drinking??? Or maybe blame disney. Teen jean and adult cyclops Ultimate Goodbye(so sad and weird) unless adult jean grey comes back but probably not.

I'd say Jeen causes more than enough drama. Remember when Teen!Angel left the O5? As for Emma helping her, I can't imagine that she will, but it's still possible. I don't think Emma hated Laura, it was more that she was concerned that the Facility would target the school in order to get her back and this would endanger Emma's students.

What really bothers me about the romance between young Scott and X-23 is that we're mostly being told that one party likes the other, rather than seeing the relationship being built organically. Jeen's telepathy is being used as a shortcut to, mostly, skip over the initial awkward "Does she/he like me back?" phase and take the reader to the will they/won't they date dilemma. But I freely admit that I'm biased when it comes to Laura because I loved the budding romance between her and Hellion back in Yost's superb New X-Men (Academy X) run. What Liu did to them was a travesty.

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#20 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (5839 posts) - - Show Bio

@hopesummersforthefuture said:

I'm still waiting for the teenjean/everyone else drama. Is Emma going to teach jean how to control her power like she helped Rachel??? Yes bendis is making laura into a angsty preteen which i hate and didnt emma always hate x-23? x-23 and the o5 just seems so wrong isnt there enough drama already. No bendis has to try to make teen cyclops and x-23 an item just to trool fans and marvel approves??? Who is in charge of marvel and what is he drinking??? Or maybe blame disney. Teen jean and adult cyclops Ultimate Goodbye(so sad and weird) unless adult jean grey comes back but probably not.

I'd say Jeen causes more than enough drama. Remember when Teen!Angel left the O5? As for Emma helping her, I can't imagine that she will, but it's still possible. I don't think Emma hated Laura, it was more that she was concerned that the Facility would target the school in order to get her back and this would endanger Emma's students.

What really bothers me about the romance between young Scott and X-23 is that we're mostly being told that one party likes the other, rather than seeing the relationship being built organically. Jeen's telepathy is being used as a shortcut to, mostly, skip over the initial awkward "Does she/he like me back?" phase and take the reader to the will they/won't they date dilemma. But I freely admit that I'm biased when it comes to Laura because I loved the budding romance between her and Hellion back in Yost's superb New X-Men (Academy X) run. What Liu did to them was a travesty.

Plus its weird because hasnt x-23 been a teen for to long. I always thought she was like 30 in a teen's body like how wolverine looks 40 but hes like 130? Or does it not apply to laura, maybe she really is a teen?

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#21 Posted by RaggedScarecrow (1142 posts) - - Show Bio

@raggedscarecrow said:

What really bothers me about the romance between young Scott and X-23 is that we're mostly being told that one party likes the other, rather than seeing the relationship being built organically. Jeen's telepathy is being used as a shortcut to, mostly, skip over the initial awkward "Does she/he like me back?" phase and take the reader to the will they/won't they date dilemma. But I freely admit that I'm biased when it comes to Laura because I loved the budding romance between her and Hellion back in Yost's superb New X-Men (Academy X) run. What Liu did to them was a travesty.

Plus its weird because hasnt x-23 been a teen for to long. I always thought she was like 30 in a teen's body like how wolverine looks 40 but hes like 130? Or does it not apply to laura, maybe she really is a teen?

To my knowledge, Laura actually as old as she looks. If I had to guess, I peg her at 18. And yeah, Wolverine is crazy old.

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#22 Edited by Eeshaan1685 (3517 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly I didn't want Laura to join the team. If she did, then it should be to replace any one member of it. Should have kept the O5 at FIVE. Or just kill Beast and replace him with her.

Even better, there are tons of young mutants not being used right now. Make a team out of them and put her in it with Hellion. Instead we get Amazing X-Men, ANOTHER book with Wolverine in it lol.

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#23 Posted by oldnightcrawler (5695 posts) - - Show Bio

..Even better, there are tons of young mutants not being used right now. Make a team out of them and put her in it with Hellion. Instead we get Amazing X-Men, ANOTHER book with Wolverine in it lol.

Amazing X-Men is great!

We all have favorite characters we'd love to see more of, but there's no sense blaming the books that are around for what they're not.

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#24 Edited by tigerkaya (1425 posts) - - Show Bio

He's terrible on teams in general he should go back to writing street level heroes or indie titles like Powers.

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#25 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (5839 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenger85 said:

..Even better, there are tons of young mutants not being used right now. Make a team out of them and put her in it with Hellion. Instead we get Amazing X-Men, ANOTHER book with Wolverine in it lol.

Amazing X-Men is great!

We all have favorite characters we'd love to see more of, but there's no sense blaming the books that are around for what they're not.

Yes Amazing X-men is great but do we really need Wolverine in another book since hes like in 20 already

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#26 Edited by x_29 (2375 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler said:

@avenger85 said:

..Even better, there are tons of young mutants not being used right now. Make a team out of them and put her in it with Hellion. Instead we get Amazing X-Men, ANOTHER book with Wolverine in it lol.

Amazing X-Men is great!

We all have favorite characters we'd love to see more of, but there's no sense blaming the books that are around for what they're not.

Yes Amazing X-men is great but do we really need Wolverine in another book since hes like in 20 already

Yes we do. I wanna see Wolverine fight demonic pirates

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#27 Edited by HAWK2916 (3532 posts) - - Show Bio

Bendis has not delivered imo. He has some decent ideas but the execution is slow and off. The whole premise of the O5 is ridiculous. Cant believe Marvel okayed it. At best its a story arc....meh....it really should not have happened. Also, I really dont get all the hype for Amazing Xmen. People calling it great...really? Why?

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#28 Posted by oldnightcrawler (5695 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes Amazing X-men is great but do we really need Wolverine in another book since hes like in 20 already

I don't disagree, but if there's only one book with Wolverine, it should be the book that has Nightcrawler in it.

if there's two, I guess one where he interacts with newer characters is a good role for him. Beyond one or two books, I don't care what else he's in. It seems like those two roles could be married in one book, so maybe one of them is redundant, but they both interest me, so..

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#29 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (5839 posts) - - Show Bio

@hawk2916 said:

Bendis has not delivered imo. He has some decent ideas but the execution is slow and off. The whole premise of the O5 is ridiculous. Cant believe Marvel okayed it. At best its a story arc....meh....it really should not have happened. Also, I really dont get all the hype for Amazing Xmen. People calling it great...really? Why?

(about amazing x-men)The art is Awesome and its hopefully the return of Nightcrawler

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#30 Posted by HAWK2916 (3532 posts) - - Show Bio

@hopesummersforthefuture: Ok but isnt Nightcrawler getting his own series written by Claremont? Thats a far superior writer than Aaron. And to my knowledge Wolverine will be in that one too. I havent read but one issue of Amazing and thats while I was in the store because spending money on Aarons writing is just asinine in my case. The art was top notch bit does art in and of itself make a great book?

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#31 Posted by Eeshaan1685 (3517 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenger85 said:

..Even better, there are tons of young mutants not being used right now. Make a team out of them and put her in it with Hellion. Instead we get Amazing X-Men, ANOTHER book with Wolverine in it lol.

Amazing X-Men is great!

We all have favorite characters we'd love to see more of, but there's no sense blaming the books that are around for what they're not.

Well what I meant to say is that Amazing might be good, but they should have used the book for the rest of the X-students who cannot get enough face-time in WATXM. Nightcrawler can be there, but the other A-listers like Wolverine, Storm etc. already got appearances in other books.

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#32 Posted by CheeseSticks (2867 posts) - - Show Bio

If he could stop from writing in the slowest pacing ever, maybe i would have vote yes. But he's like on what? 16 issue on Uncanny? He could have done it in 8 issue.

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#33 Edited by adamTRMM (4876 posts) - - Show Bio

@hawk2916 said:

Also, I really dont get all the hype for Amazing Xmen. People calling it great...really? Why?

Neither do I. The first issue made me feel like "Wow, maybe Aaron learned from his mistakes and he is about to get better?" Then, I've seen how concepts of Heaven and Hell get ridiculed, and the only feeling I have after reading is how cheap the concept of death has become in Marvel. Don't want to spoil that moment for Kurt's fans, but that's how it looks like by now.

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#34 Posted by PapiNacho (3396 posts) - - Show Bio

Well I personally prefer Amazing over All-New, because the characters feel like they are doing something. I don't really see what Jean has to learn, since apparently even inexperienced she is far stronger than Emma. ? :( Angel just seems to roll over and accept anything, staying with the team he joined for a specific purpose when they completely turn their back on him.Jean is playing around with Cyclops and Beast ( and Angel , she took over your mid dude!!?) and then gets mad when Cyclops likes X-23. Kitty Pride got upset with Wolvie and his team for no reason even thought they where doing the right thing, and instead of even just quitting she decides to join up with a terrorist.

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#35 Posted by HumanRocket (11210 posts) - - Show Bio

All New X Men started out great seeing the 05 X men seeing the future and what happened to themelves in the future. But once BOTA came around and not post BOTA i don't see what the point is for keeping them here.

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#36 Posted by oldnightcrawler (5695 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler said:

Amazing X-Men is great!

We all have favorite characters we'd love to see more of, but there's no sense blaming the books that are around for what they're not.

Well what I meant to say is that Amazing might be good, but they should have used the book for the rest of the X-students who cannot get enough face-time in WATXM. Nightcrawler can be there, but the other A-listers like Wolverine, Storm etc. already got appearances in other books.

I'm not saying I wouldn't like that too, I'm just saying that's still judging the book for what it's not rather than what it is.

Storm's in a few books now, sure, but she has a more central role now that she's Headmaster of the school. A year ago, lots of fans were saying that it was time she finally ran the X-men again; now she is, and people think she's overexposed already. I agree that she's probably in more books than she needs to be, but other than Wood's book about her team, this is the only other book that's using her for more than window dressing.

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#37 Edited by oldnightcrawler (5695 posts) - - Show Bio

@adamtrmm said:

Neither do I. The first issue made me feel like "Wow, maybe Aaron learned from his mistakes and he is about to get better?" Then, I've seen how concepts of Heaven and Hell get ridiculed, and the only feeling I have after reading is how cheap the concept of death have become in Marvel. Don't want to spoil that moment for Kurt's fans, but that's how it looks like by now.

well, to be fair, the concepts of Heaven and Hell are ridiculous.

at least in a superhero comic they don't seem any more so than anything else.

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#38 Edited by adamTRMM (4876 posts) - - Show Bio
@oldnightcrawler said:

well, to be fair, the concepts of Heaven and Hell are ridiculous.

at least in a superhero comic they don't seem any more so than anything else.

Yes they are, but at least there was an allusion of order, like Hell dimension being split between the most powerful demons/death gods. But now, we have Azazel attack Heaven as... ruler of hell? Since when he is a near skyfather-powerful? Since when he can even pretend to be a ruler of hell by being a so "threatening" Captain Pirate? Where are the real hell-lords (we're not mentioning Guido cause I don't believe this concept will be taken for serious by other writers)? Why the hell is Xavier in heaven?! Where are the Archangels which are actually Aaron's characters (and the whole different Heaven) when he was writing Ghost Rider? I know, much is yet to be relieved but reading his Thor, which is very decent, made me wonder - why is he making his X-men a joke? He thinks that they were "too dark with that bloody Summers" and he is our ultimate Smile-bringer Messiah? I don't get it, really.

Again, I tried to not get in details because I'm pretty sure this a very happy moment for NC's fans, which you are obviously, as well :) But then, can we really close our eyes on every silly detail revolves around this book? It's like many JG fans want her back no matter how it will look like for her being in other, more important plane of existence already, but most of them just don't care, mostly because of "My precious" phenomenon.

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#39 Posted by HAWK2916 (3532 posts) - - Show Bio

@adamtrmm: Exactly. Aaron has made a joke of the Xmen. The question about the Hell-lords in one that is relevant in this instant but of course it will be ignored. Death in comics has really become something silly.

And if the concepts of Heaven and Hell are ridiculous to begin with, and they are in the sense that people use them, then basing a book on those same stupid concepts is also stupid.

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#40 Posted by Eeshaan1685 (3517 posts) - - Show Bio

@adamtrmm said:
@oldnightcrawler said:

well, to be fair, the concepts of Heaven and Hell are ridiculous.

at least in a superhero comic they don't seem any more so than anything else.

Yes they are, but at least there was an allusion of order, like Hell dimension being split between the most powerful demons/death gods. But now, we have Azazel attack Heaven as... ruler of hell? Since when he is a near skyfather-powerfull? Since when he can even pretend to be a ruler of hell by being a so "threatening" Captain Pirate? Where are the real hell-lords (we're not mentioning Guido cause I don't believe this concept will be taken for serious by other writers)? Why the hell is Xavier in heaven?! Where are the Archangels which are actually Aaron's characters (and the whole different Heaven) when he was writing Ghost Rider? I know, much is yet to be relieved but reading his Thor, which is very decent, made me wonder - why is he making his X-men a joke? He thinks that they were "too dark with that bloody Summers" and he is our ultimate Smile-bringer Messiah? I don't get it, really.

Again, I tried to not get in details because I'm pretty sure this a very happy moment for NC's fans, which you are obviously as well :) But then, can we really close our eyes on every silly detail revolves around this book? It's like many JG fans want her back no matter how it will look like for her being in other, more important plane of existence already, but most of them just don't care, mostly because of "My precious" phenomenon.

For what he has done, Professor X sure as hell does NOT belong in heaven. WTF lol

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#41 Edited by oldnightcrawler (5695 posts) - - Show Bio

@adamtrmm said:

Yes they are, but at least there was an allusion of order, like Hell dimension being split between the most powerful demons/death gods. But now, we have Azazel attack Heaven as... ruler of hell? Since when he is a near skyfather-powerfull? Since when he can even pretend to be a ruler of hell by being a so "threatening" Captain Pirate? Where are the real hell-lords (we're not mentioning Guido cause I don't believe this concept will be taken for serious by other writers)?

Like you say, in the MU all mythologies are real, and that means that there's as many versions of Heaven or Hell as there are stories about them. This is one of the reasons I don't care much about continuity between different stories, because it's really only relevant if it's relevant to the story, and not all stories need to fit within a cohesive framework to be good and/or fun stories.

There's also the explanation that since Nightcrawler was in Heaven when the story started, assuming that his version of that realm grants it's inhabitants their every desire, he could have subconsciously allowed Azazel entrance by either wishing for answers about his mysterious past or by simply wishing for a swashbuckling adventure. However it was that Azazel made his way in though, once he was there, couldn't he wish himself the ruler of his own private hell? I'm just free-ballin' here, but my point is, the premise of the story is already so fantastic, and sets it in realms where the rules of the real world (even by MU standards) don't apply anyway, that one can sort of explain it however suits their fancy. The main thing is, is it a fun story because of it? So far, I think it is.

Why the hell is Xavier in heaven?!

Again, depending on how this version of Heaven works, there could be any number of reasons.

why is he making his X-men a joke? He thinks that they were "too dark with that bloody Summers" and he is our ultimate Smile-bringer Messiah? I don't get it, really.

I don't know that he's trying to make it a joke, I think he's just trying to write a certain style of X-men comic that, presumably, he himself would enjoy. His X-men are pretty wacky by contemporary tastes, sure; but they wouldn't seem out of place at all for someone who grew up reading the X-men in the 70's or even early 80's. I feel like this is actually what he's been swinging for with Wolverine & the X-Men, even if that series was all over the place, that the X-men can also be silly and fun. A lot of that is bound to be too silly for some people, but I'm sure that for many others it's refreshing. I'm certainly enjoying the approach in Amazing' anyway.

Again, I tried to not get in details because I'm pretty sure this a very happy moment for NC's fans, which you are obviously as well :) But then, can we really close our eyes on every silly detail revolves around this book? It's like many JG fans want her back no matter how it will look like for her being in other, more important plane of existence already, but most of them just don't care, mostly because of "My precious" phenomenon.

I see your point, I guess. Personally, even though Nightcrawler is my favorite character, I was okay with him being dead. He died a hero, and that was better than contriving some story to bring him back just to hang around in the background; I felt the same with Kitty when I thought she was dead, at least her last chapters were good ones. But I'd be lying if I said I wasn't interested in reading more stories with Nightcrawler, and so far I'm enjoying this one.

And yeah, even before he died it had just been so long since he'd been a really central character, so seeing him again in a leading role has been pretty great, but I can totally see how he might not always be around or be a main character all the time. I wouldn't be heartbroken if he never came back, but if he is, I enjoy it.

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#42 Edited by oldnightcrawler (5695 posts) - - Show Bio

For what he has done, Professor X sure as hell does NOT belong in heaven. WTF lol

well, if you think that's the case, consider that this is Nightcrawler's Heaven, so of course he'd want his dead friends there with him.

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#43 Edited by Eeshaan1685 (3517 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenger85 said:

For what he has done, Professor X sure as hell does NOT belong in heaven. WTF lol

well, if you think that's the case, consider that this is Nightcrawler's Heaven, so of course he'd want his dead friends there with him.

Ah yeah you got a point there.

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#44 Posted by Imagine_Man15 (1809 posts) - - Show Bio

Bendis is incredibly hit or miss. When he's on the mark, he's phenomenal (Daredevil, Ultimate Spider-Man) but when he misses the mark, he isn't even close. His X-Men work is definitely a missed mark IMO.

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#45 Edited by HAWK2916 (3532 posts) - - Show Bio
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#46 Posted by oldnightcrawler (5695 posts) - - Show Bio
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#47 Edited by HAWK2916 (3532 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler: yea. A guy that has no business writing xmen. Agree to disagree though. Its all good.lol

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#48 Edited by thatguyyouknow (45 posts) - - Show Bio

I havent read much x men so what horrible things has professor x done?

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#49 Posted by adamTRMM (4876 posts) - - Show Bio

Like you say, in the MU all mythologies are real, and that means that there's as many versions of Heaven or Hell as there are stories about them. This is one of the reasons I don't care much about continuity between different stories, because it's really only relevant if it's relevant to the story, and not all stories need to fit within a cohesive framework to be good and/or fun stories.

There's also the explanation that since Nightcrawler was in Heaven when the story started, assuming that his version of that realm grants it's inhabitants their every desire, he could have subconsciously allowed Azazel entrance by either wishing for answers about his mysterious past or by simply wishing for a swashbuckling adventure. However it was that Azazel made his way in though, once he was there, couldn't he wish himself the ruler of his own private hell? I'm just free-ballin' here, but my point is, the premise of the story is already so fantastic, and sets it in realms where the rules of the real world (even by MU standards) don't apply anyway, that one can sort of explain it however suits their fancy. The main thing is, is it a fun story because of it? So far, I think it is.

I don't know, you are trying to rationalize way too abstract writing. So if everything is so non-simply simplified let's just create the device that will teleport several X-powerhouses to every personal heaven/hell and liberate all the dead X-men out of there, why not? At least to get there, was THAT simple, it even would be amoral for them not to try lol. Rules of real world, where flesh and blood can be ripped apart, yet we see pretty much looking the same "demons/ghosts" and every one can physically interact is too odd to begin with. Of course this concept always existed, who says it was ever good?

If you're enjoying Kurt's way back to the X-books, then I'm glad for you. I'd like a more complicated way of treating concepts of death and resurrection, but I won't tell you "hey man you shouldn't enjoy this sh*t cause you shouldn't", for me it could be much better IMO

I don't know that he's trying to make it a joke, I think he's just trying to write a certain style of X-men comic that, presumably, he himself would enjoy. His X-men are pretty wacky by contemporary tastes, sure; but they wouldn't seem out of place at all for someone who grew up reading the X-men in the 70's or even early 80's. I feel like this is actually what he's been swinging for with Wolverine & the X-Men, even if that series was all over the place, that the X-men can also be silly and fun. A lot of that is bound to be too silly for some people, but I'm sure that for many others it's refreshing. I'm certainly enjoying the approach in Amazing' anyway.

There's a reason for this times of him and Bendis as main X-writers being called "the worst times to be an X-fan" lol You're an old-school fan, when was the last time you've heard this (before M-day)? :)

I see your point, I guess. Personally, even though Nightcrawler is my favorite character, I was okay with him being dead. He died a hero, and that was better than contriving some story to bring him back just to hang around in the background; I felt the same with Kitty when I thought she was dead, at least her last chapters were good ones. But I'd be lying if I said I wasn't interested in reading more stories with Nightcrawler, and so far I'm enjoying this one.

And yeah, even before he died it had just been so long since he'd been a really central character, so seeing him again in a leading role has been pretty great, but I can totally see how he might not always be around or be a main character all the time. I wouldn't be heartbroken if he never came back, but if he is, I enjoy it.

Yep, I disliked Kitty's return was played out awfully, she was phased alone in this bullet with only thoughts of death and eternal loneliness for like a year or two (?), yet she's back like nothing happened and she's pretty sane and no one even remembers she was "absent" and many other odd sh*t was handled so poorly around her "back from the dead". So you do get my point, at least, on this occasion :)

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#50 Posted by Experio (18215 posts) - - Show Bio

Nop.

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