In the last few years people have been suggesting that Magneto be given a new origin sense the events of the holocaust were so long ago. Now I don't agree with this, but let's say you were put in charge of creating his new origin. What would it be?

Keep it basically the same but link it to a fictional event.

No.

Why not?? There is nothing really indelible about the Holocaust other than Magneto and his family being persecuted and killed for who they are, the same kind of thing that happens all over the world at any time including right now. The important thing was Magneto became fascistic like the people he suffered at the hands at. You guys just likely grew up in the west where you browbeaten since you were 12 years old with how evil the Nazis were and Jewish persecution during that time because you read comics and watched movies primarily created by Jewish people. There has been other events where more people have died for being different from those who hold political power, Holodomor comes to mind. I am not trying to downplay any event, but I am saying, the Holocaust isn't unique.

I never understand why Magneto is held as such a sacred cow anyways. His character constantly flip flops and every writer that takes him on basically reboots him in essence as different people have a different vision on the characters ideology. He is easily one of the most inconsistent character in comics.

They took away his kids, his powers, and now they want his goddam origin??? They might as well kill him off if this continues.

People take concepts to literal.

I don't care anymore.

I think linking Magneto to the Holocaust is a unique feature of his origin that shouldn't be ignored or downplayed. While other atrocities in human history were just as bad even worse in some cases, I think the Holocaust is more well known. I never understand all the changing of characters origins anyway. If people are not familiar with it then that's their problem. Go watch a documentary or read about it. Funny how people think changing a characters origin is somehow progression. I get the angst when it comes to this stuff hell we already have to deal with so much change just for the hell of it and to fill some sort of quota. Why can't we just leave this one alone? Marvel made the decision a long time ago to link some things to real life events and situations and so now just live with it. It would have probably been better if they chose to be strictly metaphorical or fictional with everything and have things happen in universe that are similar or mirror real life wars, situations, events, etc. But they didn't which is an issue somewhat. If they ever do a real reboot maybe that's something they should consider

this or just make his body younger, maybe some sort of fountain of youth or something if people are inclined to this. but yeah things around him keep aging but he doesn't.

Maybe his mutation just keeps him fit.

Doesn't he have a young clone out there? put his brain in that body or something. whatever

hes till alive cause he lives in a world of super science and magic

i thought he meant because he would be like 85 years old and still fighting like a young man... in that sense of "it was so long ago" not because people aren't familiar with the holocaust. I think however they did make his body younger by some means since he was pushing 90

They first made him younger back in the 80's. I don't think he has ever been presented as someone over 50.

but they keep making the world around him age. It's just one of those things you aren't supposed to question

The Holocaust killed more people than Holomodor (7,5 million vs 11million)

also ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_human_experimentation

Aren't you the person who insists that some characters backgrounds are "too wacky" and the X-Men belong in their own universe, thus changing their origins??

Thank you Historical Hank. I was mainly referring to Jews, as they were largely the victims of persecution and their number is infamously "6 million".

Also....

Experimentation on prisoners of war, or just prisoners in general, is hardly a thing that is specific to the Nazis.

I find it interesting that nearly every character in the X-Mens history, including the original X-Men, whose mutations were heavily hinted at being tied to the dawn of the "Atomic Era" which was in the 50's, are all ok to update in some way or change but not Magneto....because Nazis!!! I don't even support changing his origin, mainly because him being de aged is the explanation of why he looks to be in his prime....which I am kind of shocked that nobody seems to know that. I am just curious as to why people always have strong feelings about him and him alone when it comes to his origin and the events tied to it.

@cattlebattle: lol when you bow out of a debate because you still haven't finished fighting Cattlebattle in 2 other threads and need to get around to eating before 12 am

@cattlebattle: I have said that the Xmen might do well in their own universe basically because of how they are treated now in the Marvel world. And I've also said that some characters backgrounds are convoluted and wacky. I'm well aware of that but I also just stated my opinions but not necessarily calling for a change. I've stated what I would do with them in a different universe. Yet since you want to delve into the history of my opinions you will no doubt note that I've been against the changes done to Bobby, Thor and others in the Marvel U which I've felt was going against their origins. For the record I wouldn't change a lot of peoples stuff when it comes to the motivations behind the characters. What I've been against is the change to fit some new pc fanboys that just started reading yesterday but want things catered to them. I think its highly disrespectful to the brand and product.

But really if you are against the change then what the hell are you trying to argue about. Just disagreeing for the hell of it just to be disagreeable is a waste.

No.

There was simply no Holodomor in sense you mean it. There was famine caused by natural reasons, namely by bad harvest after long drought. It was not limited by territory of Ukraine and unlike terrible famine in Benhalia during World War II caused by english administration was not artificial at all. Perhaps some actions taken by government were too extreme, but they were taken by ukrainian own branch of communistic party. On the other hand, perhaps, this mesures such as forced redistibution of food saved more lives then ended, much more. Think about. During famine there was little food. Peasants had their own gardens and farmland. Citizens had no such source of food. And many peasants refused to share food, many of them dug-in it and many of them later died because of poisoning by this bad food and such not nice things at it as spur, sporinya, Claviceps Purpurea. People who shared food voluntary were allowed to keep much of it. This was not what you think it is.
But what we can all see now is that this natural disaster, this tragedy became weaponised by Ukraine and western mass media for hatemongering against russians. Ukrainian neonazi blame russians for this disaster and solely russians. First they blame another nation for everything and then they start burning people "for being different from them", like in Odessa. Or Buhenvald. Or Volhunia. Do you want to be part of this hatemongering?

Ok. I get ya.

I am just curious as to why Magnetos origin is such a big deal. Characters like Forge, Iron Man, the Punisher and Karma are all tied to Vietnam, nobody ever brings up their age or cares when they change or update their origin. Professor X was even in the Korean War, not that he was intrinsically tied to it, but still. Whether you're for it or against it...it's just always weird to me that people are bothered by people being for or against changing the origin.

Sure, why not.

It's recognized as a genocide and was man made. Why are you a revisionist??

You're revisionist here, not me, revisionist and rewriter of history. Recognition? Recognition of just ~14-19 states of 197 or even 270 if you count unrecognised or dependent ones? Lol. This states who "recognised it" would recoginse accusation that Jesus Christ was killed by commies. Just because they're also red. It was not genocide and was not man made. It was natural disaster.
If you want to see man made genocide, then look on what english soldiers did in Bengal in 1943. Millions died, man. Millions died because english soldiers decided to use scorched land tactic against japanees soldiers who never came to Bengal.
If you'd continue this hatemongering, then blood of all victims of Neonazi will be on your hands too.

@cattlebattle: See I feel like those characters should be explored even more so I wouldn't want them changed.

As far as the age thing... I don't know know man its comics. While I'm cool with the universe expanding and even SOMETIMES introducing new characters. I don't want to pick up Avengers now and see a bunch of kids and other characters dressed up and playing the originals. Steve Rogers is Captain America, Banner is Hulk,and Thor is a man. I wouldn't care if they never really aged but if they do then make it uniform. The rule should apply to everyone not just one or two or a few here and there. There's an explanation about Magnetos age which like you mentioned is never talked about. Also to just add to the hated and feared especially considering today's environment and going back to the search for the fountain of youth discovery days all the way back to slavery in biblical times, one group has always been jealous and sought to dominatedominate, control or subject another group who are different or who possess qualities, attributes, or abilities different or even better defined than their own. If a feature or side effect of having the x-gene or being a mutant meant retarded aging or somehow that every mutant would age slower than baseline humans...that could be the explanation for the age stuff and further push the hated aspect of the xmen. I guess. I just think that even if you did away with all the old villains and created new ones then you'd still have complaints from the old fans vs new fans similar to discussions about sports. Let every older guy tell it the basketball football and boxers of the 60's and 70's would have dominated everything because they were the best ever. We'd be seeing how some new Mutant XYZ destroyed the whole Marvel U and the old heads would be saying he still ain't as bad as Thanos was or you think he can alter reality you should have seen Scarlet Witch or Legion. Lol

wouldn't it be funny if marvel suddenly decided that he wasn't a mutant?

I don't think they need to change it, but if they had to I would say this.

But the holocaust was far more than a "jewish genocide",jews were only half of the victims,it was a genocide against all minorities(lgbt,disabilities,all races) and the nazis wanted one race to oficially rule the rest,all because they were "perfect" and "superior".

This is why the Nazism and Holocaust are so important to Magneto and the Xmen story,their story is about dealing with differences and that no one is superior to anyone.

And the scientific tests were normal in war prisioners and criminals but not against innocent civilian children of their own country to create completely absurd and useless things like "artificial siamese twins".

Does anybody else remember X-Men Evolution?

They had an episode which perfectly addressed the problem, by just having Magneto (in one of his more sciencey moods) just build himself a rejuvenation tank using things available to him (including things from Captain America's origin). I figure that's the best way t justify him being, (and remaining) in his prime as far as powers and physicals go. As well as some of his more insane moments.

I don't know. It is somthing that will probably be done eventually.

@koays: that actually didn't make any sense considering we were lead to believe him and Xavier were the same age as in most versions.

In what media is Xavier's age ever specified? Or is it ever implied that they are the same age? Aside from the comics flash back to their first meeting (which is on a floating timeline due to Xavier's war service along with everything about them being moved around) it's never said that the two of them are the same age.

And aside from that Xavier in Evolution doesn't even seem much over mid 40s...which considering the show takes place in the 04 would mean he was born in the 50s at the earliest.

Something like this. Magneto was great long before they brought in the Nazi thing. It's really not needed.

@koays: We had comics showing him being around 10-12 during the 1940s which would line up with how old Magneto was during the holocaust. Also there being a big age difference between the two would make them having a brotherly relationship harder to believe.

How about make him a Weapon X victim? Have him be one of there first victims, with there agents killing his family and then experimented on him, you could even tie him in with the creation of adamantium this way, maybe Magneto rampaging and escaping also freed the brainwashed Logan.

My memory can be wrong, but Magneto has always been an Holocaust survivor. I know it for sure for the late 70s. For the first age of the x-men (with the original 5), I'm thousand of kms away from my old comics so I can't check, but I would have bet that it was already the case too.

In my mind, the doubt was about him being persecuted as a Zigan/Gypsie or as a Jew.

IIRC him being a jew is a retcon. His thing before that was a Gypsie.

Unless he was a jew, then a Zigan then back to be jew again.

But it doesn't change that in any case he was always an Holocaust survivor, " never again" was always his driver to protect the mutants against the human oppression. So I disagree with you when you write that he was "great long before they bring the Nazi thing".

So to answer to the OP, no, don't change his origin.

@bullpr: I don't know if you can consider it a retcon, but it wasn't mentioned until Uncanny X-Men #150.

They can easily replace it with something fictional especially in a comic universe where other organizations directly born from them exist. Just ask Cap America. Most people don't even known or have know that about Magneto to get him. It certainly wasn't what people focused on. It would be even better and make more sense if the new origin was mutant related indecent to drive him. Maybe tie it to Genoshia and which lends to why it's so important that they claim it for themselves..

It will also solve the age thing without relying on the dumb de-aged thing.

@immolation: ok. Thanks. I will check later the details of this issue to see if it reminds me something.

But there's been a age difference between the two since Xavier's military service was changed from the Korean war to Vietnam to something that appeared to be the Gulf War the last time they revisited his 616 origin.

It doesn't change the facts of their relationship, because whats important is how they interacted in their first meeting. Not their age.

@koays:

The more you fiddle with Magneto's age, the more you change the dynamic of things like Magneto and Xavier. Right now Magneto supposedly has about 10 years on Charles, but there first meeting was as equals. The more you fiddle with it the less it becomes a meeting of two friends who disagreed and instead it starts to seem like the jaded elder mutant Magneto vs the brash young student Xavier.

@william300: Read any of the retellings of them revealing their powers for the first time. That conversation, those words, that friendship...even Magneto looking at Xavier as someone who just doesn't understand how the world works....nothing changes even with a 30 year age gap because when they met each other their powers and world views made them equals, and the first equals that either if them had ever had.

Again, this is basically what happens whenever some group commits genocide in some form or another, The majority rules over the minority. Though the number of casualties may be higher, it isn't anymore unique than any other incident.

@koays: Sorry but it does. 30 years is a huge gap, 10 years you might be able to get away with, but not anything over. Someone that much older would be part of a different generation, and hence be quite diffetent, Xavier and Magneto's relationship is a brother like one, such a relationship is very unlikely to form if one man is old enough to be the others father. A mentor/student relationship maybe, but not a brotherly one. People with that big of a age gap wouldn't have that much in common, as they would have grown up in very different period, Magneto would have grown up during the Holocaust, while Charles would have grown up in the post WW2 world. A brotherly relationship would be unlikely. That said, a version where Xavier started out as Magneto's student would be interesting.

@william300: But this is what I'm saying to you: They are already from different worlds.

Firstly because by the time Xavier and Magneto meet, Mags has already lived through the holocaust, seen his parent murdered, fled to safety with and married Magda, watched his daughter die and Magda run away from him at the sight of his emerging powers. He's already been through far more then Xavier and has been aged greatly by it because he's firmly inbedded in his world view. He's an older and more experienced soul then Xavier who's life up till their first meeting has done little to shake his resolve or change his beliefs.

And secondly because as it stands right now in canon Xavier ALREADY grew up in post WWII America. His age and the war he fought in has already been retconned. And therefore the change has been made to their ages without changing their dynamic at all.

Really the idea that 2 people of different ages can't meet each other as equals is socially and philosophically wrong. And given that by the time they meet both of these men have fought and killed for their own survival and have each believed themselves to be far more powerful then any mere human and that they were each the only one of their kind.... There's nothing to suggest that these two grown men couldn't stand next to each other as "complete" people through their experiences, powers and philosophy form a brotherly bond in the actions they take together.

Really consider this, if Xavier cannot be swayed influenced or shaped by Magneto's feelings or experiences; Simply because he's already firmly evolved and ingrained himself in his own outlook. And Magneto can't be swayed by Xavier because his own experiences and outlook have long since shaped him....and they meet, debate, and respect each others power and intelligence....why can't they leave that meeting with a friendship that feels like brothers? Because age does not a brother make...

@koays: I never said a older and younger man can't develop a brotherly relationship, I just said it's less likely than if they were the same age. And it is, Magneto being a lot older would make it much more likely for their relaionship to be mentor/student instead of brotherly. And I don't see the reason to have a large age gap anyways, most heroes don't age so I say keep with the idea that there the same age. Have Xavier grow up at the same time as Magneto. We already have characters who aren't the same age.

@william300: The thing is that you keep saying that its more likely that they would develop a mentor student relationship. But the change has already been applied and that's not what happened. Its not like the next issue of Uncanny drops and says that Xavier was in his 40s and all of a sudden every interaction between them changes to a mentor/student one.

The issue is that tying Xavier to Magneto in age makes it.so that he is now a part of the problem since he will now be directly tied in with the WW2 time period that Mags is tied into, and things like their first meeting and meetings of other mutants like Storm are pulled into question as well.