I mean clearly we have issues (the CompleX, chronic writer dissatisfaction, Avengers beef, the CompleX...)...but how do you personally feel about the X-Men fandom as a whole?

What do you like about us?

What do you think is our biggest problem?

Where do you think the best part of the fandom can be found?

I'm honestly curious because people seem to have soured on X-Fans in the last couple of years..

I dislike all fans since they are prone to nerd rage. Like tmnt 2 (90s) they won't listen to reason

I use to be an X-Fan until I felt they ruined the universe.

I don't like many of the vocal X-Fans I've come across. Too much kool-aid.

@dernman: lol I think i know what you mean....but just to be sure, describe kool-aid.

@koays: The X-kool-aid comes in many flavors not just one so you're probably right.

No. I hate them all

Seriously though, I feel like people are fans of the idea of the X-Men rather than actually fans of the franchise....if that makes sense..

You mean like how in a "What's your favorite thing about the X-Men?" thread...you get a lot more of "friendship, diversity, fights against discrimination, and most importantly friendship" instead of "I loved the way _____ storyline really showed the _____ team of X-men uniting against ____ enemy" or "I like ______ character, because ___ and _____ really signify a good dynamic and make eachother interesting in ways other series don't have"

I didn't know the X-men Fanbase as a WHOLE were that much disliked.

Lol well, Storm fans have been known to get it the worst, with Cyclops fans a growing distant second as AvX becomes a more distant memory...but in general i've seen X-Fan's be told off for complaining about how the series has changed, for mentioning anything about the Complex, for liking the movies, and for saying what they think makes the series good.


And it's not like these were "Our fandom vs another fandom" moments....people just seem to be growing (or just voicing more often) impatient with the X-Men fans.

@heroup2112:

@koays: It's rarely stopped me from winning before. Though losing every once in awhile keeps ya honest ;)

Storm fans always get it the worse that hate her for the wrong reasons. As for Cyclops it's the same thing. I don't understand that so what your saying WE X-men fans can not voice our opinions??? OR Every time our presence is known where just disliked for being a fan???

You know CV is pretty childish

Really if we're talking about outside of CV it's alot worse...though dedicated Storm hate is really only present in sites with Battle threads and CBR (because CBR is the route of all evil). But what I'm really talking about is expressing ourselves and our opinions.

My experience with X-Men fans has predominantly been on this forum, and it has been really positive. Everyone seems to be willing to listen to and even try to understand different views which is great. One of the key themes of the X-Men is tolerance and it seems to be reflected in the fans.

I think just like any other fans of any other thing there are some that are reasonable and others that are not. I really hate the blanket statement or thought that a certain group of fans is bad because they criticize certain things. I dont know when everyone in the world got so damn sensitive but criticism can make you better. I agree with the thought that many are in love with the idea of the xmen and what it could be however considering the potential vs the execution, I can understand the the sentiment of many fans, in that the company has really dropped the ball. What I dont like about some fans though is the thought that every particular race, creed, orientation or whatever has to be represented or else no one can relate.

Overall i love this forum though because some otherws are really ridiculous. This forum seem to have people more willing to discuss things and the fans are more knowledgeable. Theres nothing like trying to talk or reason with stupid people. cough cough.. c..cough...b...cough...r....

Basically, yeah. Also, people often have a vision of the X-Men that is just related to what they were in the early 90s, with Cyclops and Jean, Wolverine, Gambit chasing Rogue, and Professor X being the mentor of the group and all of them living at the school, mostly because that is how they are are always represented in movies, cartoons and video games....despite the fact that in the comics the team was actually always in flux. They started out as a z list group of teenage heroes, then in the 70s they became more like adventurers similar to the Fantastic Four, then into the 80s they became more like anti-heroes, then in the late 80s they were like a global Avenger type team that operated out of Australia and so forth and the characters on the team usually had reason to be on the team or leave the team. The book always changes and always has changed. I notice a lot of fans just like the status quo they were presented with when they started reading the X-men, despite the fact that the X-Men has never really had a status quo.

i think those are just the fans that respond to the threads. most x fans don't think that the world is out to get them.

@hawk2916: I like that I'm not the only one who breaks out into coughing fits when CBR is brought up....it truly is a sickening place.

But yea, for me i've always understood that there's going to be criticism of any work and people that disagree with the critique...but the problem thats growing is that people don't even wanna hear the critque anymore. You ever heard the phrase "complaining about shows you don't watch"? Well it's like people are doing the opposite now.."Supporting books they don't have to sit through". Like how many times have people who have never read an X-Men title or are only reading one book come along and said- "I don't understand why people don't like _____" It doesn't matter if it's Bendis, the O5, Inhumans, Fanto(die)mex....people that ask the questions represent a large body who i've repeatedly seen tell X-Fans "Stop complaining you've got like 7 books out" when all of them are 5/10 at best.

@cattlebattle- This is very true. I like it all. Some people don't. Some people prefer X-Men one way, other prefer them another. And usually it's only people who've been through 3 or 4 shifts that can come to except that "Rogue isn't a flying brick with lipstick and southern class".

Honestly I think the best way to test this the idea of "X-Men flying around in a heli-carrier like base". If you think it's an idea you could live with then your fine...but if it requires them to be fighting a particular enemy or a particular story element to be good...then you probably are holding on to a story arc you read a while back.

Which is fine on most days....but for any older fan who realizes that someone who jumped on in the last 3 years or so and becomes a fan is going to show up in a fan group one day and claim that Wolverine and Cyclops should fight 10 year old genius' running a group primarily associated with a S&M club again...this can be a continuing problem with no end in sight.

Well with that I'm on referencing the easily notable things. But there is a wide and diverse number of things within the fandom that people take issue with. I mean the positive fanboys get it as much as the conspiracy theorist and negative nancies. And none of that has anything to do with the group of us that have been attacked for the X-Men not being mixed up with the rest of Marvel or for being too mixed up. I mean I get that everything has a counter opinion...but still

The issue is more that the comics started to reflect the fan base more and more. Some people grew tired of the "dream". They saw mutants as superior and empathize with magneto. These people also didn't necessarily grow up thinking of the x men as a civil rights metaphor. After genosha, then the destruction of the school, the attacks on utopia. It was time for war and x fans wanted a leader who saw the world the way it was. Cyclops came out of his shell and became the leader we needed.

This divided fans. As those who saw the x men as a metaphor believed cyclops was betraying their cause and becoming like the people they were trying to change.

Others felt that it sent the wrong message in general. That secession was wrong and they shouldnt use force to try to change the system. The world already hated and feared us, now we are giving them actual reason to be afraid?

Then of course you have the genuine mutant supremacists who believe humans are standing in the way of Darwin.

And last the avengers fans who got so tired of the 90s x dominance that they just looked for excuses to take the x men down a few pegs.

All in all, divisive stories will divide fans, depending where you fell on the spectrum would likely dictate your tolerance levels for those who fell elsewhere.

So am I tired of X fans? No I'm tired of those who call the realist who believes in the survival of his specifies being labeled a villian. And how stupid his younger self is. "Wahhhh, I don't get why I grew up to be such a badass!I wanted to be a pussy forever wahhhhhhh" direct quote BTW.

Oh and for real

CYCLOPS WAS RIGHT

@killraven4334: This is why I love the X-Fans.

I died right around the "direct quote" from Tyke and was ressurected by the "Cyclops was right"

WOW. You hit the nail on the head.

As with any fandom they have their good and bad. So it depends for me. I know plenty of people dissatisfied with the current Xmen but that's from people like Bendis

Some of them.

With each X-Fan that ******* about the Inhumans I get more and more annoyed by them.

Other than that I don't like or hate them anymore than I like or hate any other extreme fans of something.

@koays: not sure if good or bad lol

I constantly deal with Batman Fanboys.
After that any fandom seens civilized and rational.

A strange thing that happen is that it's very rare that fans adhere to the newer stuff...probably with good reason. Lots of newer readers go back and fall in love with the Claremont stuff, probably because had a whole variety of characters, villains, supporting characters, ideas and plot lines...Although, I pretty much only communicate with other X-Men fans through this site, so, I couldn't tell you what the general consensus is. People on this site aren't that bad to be honest....I tend to agree with a lot of the overall complaints people have.

Yes, I like them. I still tend to have at least one X-book on my pull list so I consider myself a fan.

I think Claremont approached it in a very novelistic, respectful manner that made the characters appear like individuals with maturity, moral reasoning, and personalities to balance their powers. Many of the newer books tends to focus on snark, big reveals or having shocking moments just to have splash pages, and other stunts that only work in the short-term. Also, there were far fewer special events. Claremont's style is actually VERY similar to the type of manga that would appear in a tankoubon, such a DBZ - not really a self-contained graphic novel (Moore and Whedon favor that style), but more of a long-running, extended series of simmering plotlines that often paid off years later.

Yep. Thats a great way to put it. If you read his run on X-Men combined with his run on New Mutants and the mini series and appearances X-Men have in other comics that he wrote the whole thing reads like a long novel series....like "A Song of Ice and Fire" for lack of a better example. Take someone like Donald Pierce for example, he originally debuts as a henchman in the Inner Circle and then, gradually appearing here and there, grows into the X-Men's primary threat as the leader of the Reavers by the end of the 1980s. Lots of other characters grow throughout that decade and have lots of different appearances that develop their character. It's probably may favorite thing about his run.

Yes. I like the X-Men and their fans. I get irritated by them some times but then again I get irritates by all fan bases every now and then.

I think most of us are just old and jaded. I remember the thread I made asking how long you've been reading X-Men comics and most people replied with 10 years plus, with over a quarter of the responses saying over 20 years.

@phoenixofthetides: @cattlebattle: But tell me this...do you guys feel that a modern writer could emulate this style of long over arcing plotlines that expand the mythos and create layered events without losing the fans, their own story focus? I mean god forgive me for this but.....BENDIS was getting ridiculed for his Uncanny run being slow and uneventful before issue 15, when he was still setting up a lot of plots like Mystique, Dazzler, Shield,Magik, and what would turn out to be Dark Beasts sentinels. I mean is there anyway that style of mature long term plotting can work nowadays in the climate of "12 issues a volume then a relaunch"?

And more important, would it just be better if the main X-Men book, like an Uncanny was just canceled and became a quarterly 60pg book with year long plotlines?

@koays: I think you still can have long overarching plotlines as long as new writers are willing to use plot threads set up by other writers.

I like the idea of a quarterly TPB but Marvel would want their regular cashflow.

@koays: I think a modern writer doesn't need to emulate that style - a lot of writers actually have this ability. The problem is that writers for an established franchise like X-Men don't have the type of creative control the creator of "Invincible" or other indies have - they are constrained by exactly what you pointed to...the "12 issues a volume then relaunch" concept really puts them in a straight jacket. Claremont was fortunate in that he was able to do whatever he wanted for years so he could afford to take the long view. I don't want to disparage Bendis, but I simply think he doesn't work that well with team books.

I actually think Marvel should start experimenting with formats like you suggested. A quarterly has more time to get the right artist and creator combo while having more at stake - I think Whedon's run could have worked very well in that format. The X-Men concept gets kind of diffused and mundane when they're just another superhero team with jets, armories, and HQs. I kind of like the idea of individual groups of X-Men splintering off while every once in a while they come together like bees to a hive to handle big threats. We already approach the books that way - you read X-Men to keep track of the main team, but X-Factor, X-Force, and etc. are somewhat considered secondary with their own things going on. The problem is somewhat obvious to a business person - the monthly approach generates buzz for movies, other products, and the eventual graphic novel while the sales could pay for itself...there really isn't any reason for a comic publisher to NOT publish titles monthly (unless they care about overall quality but I think Marvel takes the $$$ point of view).

Also, I have a sneaking suspicion that some writers simply don't like certain characters and/or have favorites.

@killraven4334: lol good

@Feartheliving: But. . . .**** the Inhumans. . .

Case and point.

Meh. Tough to call really. The industry is so different now and people, well, some people, just have shorter attention spans. I mean, look at all the people on forums that criticize Claremonts run for being "too wordy". God forbid you might have to read, right?

I think they should just reduce the amount of books. 4 is pushing it. 2 or 3 with annuals and some mini series here and there would be ideal for one writer.

Lol well classic Claremont IS tediously descriptive....but thats a stylistic choice that he refined as his run increased.

I mean, 2 or 3 written by the same writer...sure. One vision, one creator and 3 books to put them out and explore the different sides an aspects of the plotlines of the concept could work. And maybe one other book as alternative for the fans who don't want that book. Like Bendis' Uncanny and All New with XX-Men as the alternative.

My only thing with that would be that if you get a writer like Lemire, who isn't completely trash...but doesn't seem capable of covering that much material even when given a rich premise, plot, and line up. Then you could have a "blah" list of titles like Extraordinary and like the Big Two X-Books from the mid 90's period tended to be when they had dull creative teams.