Lets not sugar coat it, we were all pissed after AvX. The Avengers were pit against the X-Men to capitalize off of their recent mainstream interest, in a storyline that shouldn't have involved them and seemed forced at every corner ESPECIALLY in regards to characterization. And after the event, every X-book changed (except Astonishing maybe) and the Avengers went about their business like nothing happened.

BUT NOW IT'S OVER.

But there still seems to be some tension between X-Fans and anything Avenger related.

So two Questions
1- How did you feel about the Avengers before/after AvX? (As relates to the X-Men)

2-How do you think the Avengers current status quo, both in universe and out, effects the X-Men?

(Remember Avengers World shows the Avengers leading their teams on a bright new future of cooperation with SHEILD....right after the last X-Men event shows them being attacked by SHEILD sanctioned Sentinels )

@koays:

All I know is AvX happened because it was Marvel's way of trying to boost sales for The Avengers Comics.

@hopesummersforthefuture: so true!

Captain America used to be one of my favorite Marvel characters before AvX, probably top 5. AvX changed that pretty quickly.

I don't know where to start. I could write a novel about this topic. I've hated the Avengers since House of M. For the past 7 or 8 years after, the X-Men have been knocking it out of the park. The X-Men were a delicious cake, then the Avengers came and shit on that cake and had the nerve to call it frosting. AvX is possibly the lowest thing I have ever seen in Marvel history. I know it was written by a bunch of people but it stinks like Bendis. That hack needs to be fired. The only way I can put up with AvX is to pretend it isn't canon and make up my own storyline.

What's their to figure out X-fans hate Avengers and Avengers fans don't give a shit about X-men, simple as that. Now as to SHIELD no surprise there they have always been backstabbing every time. I hope this answered your questions. Now can we all get united in canceling Uncanny Avengers, you X-Fans hate I hate let's get this piece crap title canceled so we can get back to mutant problems an X-men problem and everything else an Avengers problem.

Nice to see more people hating Bendis work, but after AvsX And having to put up with the X-men throwing the Avengers under a bus about mutant this and mutant that I think lumping Bendis with X-men is the perfect revenge so enjoy having pages with entirely with dialogue and everyone repeating the same word over and over. For you will all go mad with every page he writes. Oh and have fun with X-23 making out with young Scott. In other words enjoy hell.

does there? you seem to be overlooking that someone can be both an Avengers fan and an X-men fan. I've been a fan of the Avengers for almost 20 years and an X-men fan for more than 20 years, and I still read good comics about both of them every month.

I wasn't a big fan of AvsX, but that had more to do with it having so many tie-ins to other books i had been enjoying prior to it's start, more than the actual 12 issue series itself. I didn't think it was all that great, but it didn't ruin my appreciation of any of the characters in it or other stories they were in because of that.

Just before AvsX I had only started reading comics again (around Regenesis), so I was still trying to decide which X-men comics I was interested in and wasn't paying a lot of attention to the Avengers books.

Since AvsX, all of the Avengers books started over and that made it a lot easier to decide which ones I wanted to check out. Though I've lost all interest in Hickman's "World" team, New Avengers, Mighty Avengers, and Uncanny Avengers have all been great. Though, like I say, I don't think that has a lot to do with AvsX one way or the other, other than that it gave a place to start and restart so many books.

To me, the Avengers status quo need not effect the X-men at all. At least not outside of the individual stories. That SHIELD represents a threat to the protagonists of Uncanny X-Men and Wolverine & the X-Men doesn't have to be incongruous with their association with Cap' and Iron Man's efforts to rally the world's superheroes to a common goal because they're different stories, and SHIELD has always been as shady as it has been altruistic. If SHIELD sends members of the Secret Avengers to arrest Cyclops outlaw X-men, that still makes sense from the perspectives of all of those characters.

Does the Cap' in Uncanny Avengers know that SHIELD has Sentinels? So far that hasn't been part of the story, so so far it hasn't mattered. I'd like to think that Cap' is clever enough to know that he'll never really know everything that SHIELD or the X-men are up to, but that hasn't stopped him from being an ally to both. He's fought against both and he's trusted both, so he really could go either way; and if he could, any of the Avengers could.

None of which is a major concern to me, because when I'm reading one story, that's the story I'm reading and the other stories don't matter.

It's like if I watched an episode of the Wolverine and the X-men cartoon and then watched an episode of the X-men: Evolution cartoon; in a lot of ways, the two stories will be incongruous, but that doesn't mean that I can't enjoy both equally. They're just two different stories.

i have no real issue with the avengers, well atleast ididnt. the last few years saw the x-men & mutants in general be placed on the back burner after years of keeping marvel afloat, growing up i heard of the avengers but they were never as big an impact in the marvel U as the x-men or spiderman. but nowadays the avengers are everywhere & it seems that in the process of building the avengers up everyone who isnt avenger affiliated is being down played with the exception of GoG & the Inhumans which i find utterly pointless. i mean come on the inhumans???? they control the kree now & the shi'ar why do they need to be creating more inhumans on earth, they have whole damn galaxies they can go populate. i still feel that there is no way the avengers should have been basiclly deemed the victors of avx the character concepts dont fit, if anyone should have been up in arms againsts the x-men it should have been ironman & not captain america but alot of it was plotted to pit cyclops & capt. against each other to kinda determine who the better leader is & i still feel cyclops is a better leader. wolverine was completely unredeemed in avx & noone has really addressed it nor has he himself addressed it except for with whats going on in UA where his past with x-force has come up. his x-force persona & avengers persona conflict alot, despite his feelings towards scott after schism i felt wolverine should have stood by the x-men especially after Messiah complex- second coming, i mean why go through all of that to try & save the mutant messiah & the mutant race only to kill her because of the phoenix when u know she has a higher purpose, its like when the event happened everything that kinda lead up to it was tossed out the window, same as with BoTA. the phoenix shouldnt have been involved because bendis perverted the concept & history of the phoenix to fit into this story, but i cant blame him alone because the whole mystique of the phoenix was trashed between endsong, warsong, emma having the phoenix, to Quentin having the phoenix, the cuckoos, it was too much and the laws of what we have been following for years as far as phoenix criteria have changed & for what?? Hope..... her character & purpose was destroyed in avx because her character wasnt well written, her time to build up to becoming phoenix was so forced & out of place that has currently left her a borderline limbo character save for X-force. hope should never have been her own character she should have emained what she was meant to be... jean grey's reincarnation. i still cant wrap my head around her use of the ironfist powers because she can/ is only supposed to be able to mimic mutant powers yet she mimicked both ironfist & the dragon's power without being taught the ways of the ironfist which again was another fatal blow to the character concept behind her. marvel has shown in the comics as of late that a comic's or characters history & storyline leading up to the current doesnt matter anymore for it can be changed, corrupted, manipulated & mutilated at the writer's digression simply because that writer is charged with a set title or characters & is given full freedom to write what he/she pleases without regard to the loyal fans who have stuck by for years, reading, buying & commenting on their favorite comics. me personally im all for a revamp, i feel its time & i feel that the x-men should regain the credit they deserve but i dont feel bendis should have headed this up because he is leaving too many loose ends & corrupting the story too much to try to make his point..... FAIL

@oldnightcrawler:

This wasn't a "your with us and against them" thing if that's how you took it(despite the title). But there's been more then a few post in the last week or so that inspired the questions. I'm just curious as to whether the bitterness or lack of interest toward the Avengers was linked to a specific event or if everyone had their own reasons.

The point you make about one story's status quo not effecting the others bothers me just because it gives to much leeway to the writers in terms of deciding how much the shared Universe really is shared. Sure every book has it's own perspective and one book shouldn't be a slave to a obscure event in another, nor should every writer be forced to reference things going on in another title when they aren't conducive to the plot there trying to get across. But when the Avengers launch a book teaming up with Shield while the X-Men are beginning a new plot in which Shield is building Sentinels it has ramifications that should be felt because their using the same characters/organization. I'm not saying that UA should stop it's current angle to do a PSA on Shield Sentinels but when Captain America's position is very much relevant to current events then I don't think it's fair for them to decide that this week every book is it's own island.

@xspectre28: Your comment on Wolverine's characterization is dead on. After Kurt died in 2nd Coming, Wolverine told Hope that she had better be worth it. Then he acts as if he had know idea this chick was connected to the Phoenix Force and decides she needs to be taken out. It's moments like this that hurt characters who are used across multiple tittles because characterization and continuity are key within a shared comic book universe.

1- How did you feel about the Avengers before/after AvX? (As relates to the X-Men)

I'm a fan of both the Avengers and the Xmen. AVX could have been a great story however, in my opinion it fell short. When it was all about Hope and the Phoenix, I think that hurt the story for me. Just for arguments sake though I happened to be one of those who took the Xmen side of things in the story. The idea of Uncanny Avengers is a little hard to accept since I generally prefer to keep the Xmen and Avengers separate. Ironically Uncanny Avengers is the best book Marvel puts out at the moment in my opinion. The only place I want the Avengers and Xmen mixing is in New Avengers as members of the Illuminati.

I've never really had a problem with the shared universe, so its not like I automatically felt the Avengers had no jurisdiction when it came to mutants. I also never liked the idea that the Avengers didnt help with M-day, though to be fair I was disappointed with the Xmen's role in Civil War. Civil War could have been a much bigger story if developed using everyone. In all honesty, lately everything just seems crowded to me, which may actually be a point against having a shared universe. I find more and more that I lean toward the Xmen existing in their own little universe and not with the Avengers and Fantastic Four and everyone together. I mean when do we determine that a mutant that is threatening the world is an Xmen problem or an Avengers problem. It kind of feels and sounds like the alphabet soup we have in our government, with the CIA blaming the DIA, and the FBI blaming the DHS for all dropping the ball and waiting on the other.

Someone mentioned earlier the characterization of Wolverine and I think that was spot on. This is one of the big problems I have with the books lately, the characters are all off, feels like Im in the twilight zone or something.

2-How do you think the Avengers current status quo, both in universe and out, effects the X-Men?

I dont know that anything really has changed. in the MU. I guess in terms of what we see, it feels like the XMen are getting shafted. I feel like the Avengers are being promoted hard and the Xmen are treated like the black sheep and given inferior writers and all. Of course that's just my opinion. To me the Avengers books are lot less convoluted and each seems to have its own niche and direction, whereas the Xmen books seem rather directionless with only one right now having a stated purpose and even that's hard to distinguish.

Im not a conspiracy guy but I dont like whats happening to the Xmen. Especially considering how the XMen have made the money and kept Marvel afloat through the years. I dont recall the Avengers ever being as popular as they are right now. This speaks to what some others have mentioned about how the most powerful mutants/xmen where left sidelined in AVX, when they could have wiped the Avengers out easily.

I really, really hate how the Avengers or really the writers keep taking from the Xmen and moving some of the characters over to the Avengers when I dont see the reverse. I really think they should stay seperate

@hawk2916: Glad to hear, it would benefit both sides really. Those who like the X-men in the Marvel U., you need to keep your mouths shut and wake up and realize what good does having them be in a shared universe when the majority of stories they crossover in are either hero vs hero events. Uncanny Avengers is a joke of a title if anything it only proves once again how X-men are better off in their little own universe and should stay there dealing with only mutant related problems. Those that don't agree, well I feel sorry for your state of mind. The less crossovers the X-men have with other teams and heroes the better.

@oldnightcrawler: If only more X-Fans were like you, rather than bitch about who's not helping who they should focus on their own story and stop acting like a bunch of ignorant, accusing X-fans that don't seem to understand the difference between self contained story and staying in ones corner. What happen in Avengers stays in our universe while whatever happens in an X-men comics stats in there's the more people accept this, the better off most fanbase's are.

So? they were still selling better than X-men comics and weren't straight off a relaunch

@tigerkaya: Curious, (putting aside the merits of the X-Men in another Universe debate for now) what do you think is the bare minimum that events in one franchise should effect another within a shared Universe?

It could be argued that since '06 there's been more focus then ever before on bringing the X-Men closer into the fold then ever before. And if you look at why, it's probably because the X-books had been dealing with world changing events (destruction of genosha, magneto attacks New York, M-Day) that didn't have much impact on the Avengers and other titles because they were in the middle of something else self-contained. That creates a sort of gap where some fans will ask "Where was ______ on M-Day/Genosha?" when they all team up to fight Skrulls or Norman Osborn which isn't half as important as something going on during one title.

But the fact is they do share a world though, which is why I have a problem with their being an Avengers team for every color of the rainbow because of what it means for the rest of the Marvel U. It's like the old joke "Why is every Marvel superhero based in New York?" except on a world scale.

@koays: Well considering X-writers are the ones who chose to isolate the X-men from the marvel U. They know if they actually had other heroes speak for mutant equality they would lose their precious mutant hated and feared theme they love parading on a daily basis. And guys like me who can step out of the crack of the X-men mytho's and appreciate and be a fan of much of the Marvel U. Get sick and tired of the X-men going on their tirade of "Why weren't you their for us!" And the X-fans being such blind loyalist never questioning the writers until now always buy into the X-men solitude blight. So my general response "Shut up, enjoy you'r X-men in isolation and stop demanding every hero get into the X-men's mess before we get BS like AvsX, if you can't accept that post a petition to have the X-writers stop having the X-men appear in other Marvel comics and vice versa and focus only on the mutant theme of predjudice."

@tigerkaya: I can kind of see a bit of where your coming from. The X-Men have existed off to the left of the rest of the Marvel U, and to great effect. I wouldn't be as much a X fan as I am if there wasn't such a long period of the X-Men on their own without crossing over with the other Marvel books as often because I didn't care about the others for the most part.

At the same time, that's not the case anymore, and the initial post mentions Shield and Avengers World because AvX had no reason/need at all for a crossover and we got one. So now that there's an actual conflict of interest in the books who knows what could happen....nothing?...more mischaracterization?....AvX 2?

When we came off of AvX the Marvel Universe was more unified then ever in terms of direction, so why would the writers back track?
I only ask because I don't think they would spend as much time trying to integrate the X-Men just to have events in them not effect a major event in the other Marvel books.

@koays: I gave you the idea here's your chance to run with it, instead your merely want answer to something you should have already know. X-writers like to be in their own little world much like Marvel U. Writers like to be in their own world. As to SHIELD big deal, they are always back stabbing everyone. As I said before if don't like the direction complain to the X-writers there your problem because like it or not Hickman doesn't care what happens in an X-title.

@tigerkaya: I don't think the writers are nearly as disorganized as you put it.

But oh well I'm "running" off to write my 3 page petition for continuity and/or consistency within the universe. If anyone needs me i'll be outside the Marvel offices with a sign that says "Hickman doesn't care about X-People".

@koays: There go, follow your sarcastic advice I'm sure X-fans will flock to your petition. Meanwhile I'm going to celebrate knowing one day Uncanny Avengers will be canceled.

i also feel the avengers came better overall because over the last few years avengers have been dtealing from x-men, mainly their up & coming leaders or even just ppl that can make power moves. even thou storm's@ membership was only temporary or if she is still a member is up in the air, as for wolverine, beast, cannonball, sunspot, rogue, havok, & prodigy, sunfire!!! i mean come on all have been a leader type role or are have some means to be able two. cannonball is a second generation seasoned leader & soldier & cannonball service with him forever, they have good team dynamic already. prodigy has tge knowledge of ever leader, scientist, teacher, etc that he has came into contact with while he had his power. rogue is a powerhouse as far as she can be as powerf as her teammates & her enemy if the opportunity is given plus lead a team. beastis an original x-man, a high level scientist, has hella connections. wolverine is self explanitory. sunfire is a powerhouse & a wild card, he never really lined up with the x-men but agreed to join UA in his memory.... maybe the x-me. but not UA. and with wolverine & beast also posing as avengers, all x-related teams associated with jgshl is basuclly co-ave.gers cause if wolverine calls tgey will come or provide intel. scott's x-men & x-force are basiclly the only ones not aligned wolverine. havent read ANXF yet so i dont know where their true affiliations are. magneto is doing his own thing but its yet to be seen if he really is pro avengers. dazzler is a current SHIELD member & the last time i saw skids she was a SHIELD member too. it should be a fair trade if the can takx-men tgen it should go both ways. i think it would be good for non, mutant heroes to become x-men & i mean on scotts side. i enjoyed cloak, dagger & namor as x-men well namor is a mutant & C&D are mutates but still. namor is off with NA wut if he convinced black panther to leave avengers & join or it can be because of storm & their daughter. thor's commitment to mutants now but i know ut wouldnt be him. but spiderman or even wiccan & speed. it could happen. but yea im tired of avengers stealing & pushing x-men aside.. damn u writers lol

@xspectre28: I'm sick and tired of having X-men members in Avengers and I wish we didn't have them. Sunspot and Cannonball should stay in limbo until a New Mutant title is relaunched, while all the X-members on Uncanny Avengers should either join X-Force or X-Factor where they belong.

I don't disagree with that point. Maybe it's that I don't give a toss about what happens in Hickman's Avengers, or maybe it's that the Avengers have almost always been in bed with SHIELD in some capacity -and SHIELD has always been shady- but really, it just doesn't bother me one way or the other.

Would I like to see Cap' and the Uncanny Avengers go all hell-to-leather on SHIELD over the Sentinel thing? sure I would, but if that doesn't happen, it'll be because something else is, and I'll be reading that. It's not like Cap's just going to find out about SHIELD Sentinels and not do something about it. He probably just doesn't know.

I guess you could blame any number of writers for that, but, like I say, it doesn't really matter to me. Any writer you could blame is just trying to write their own story (which is what any of us would do), and all of the X-men and Avengers comics I'm reading are having good stories despite not telling that one. That's all I want, good stories. As for the writers themselves, they don't owe me anything.

I agree with your first point here, I just think it applies to all stories. Avengers and Avengers fans are no better than X-men and X-men fans. It's just some superhero comics for crying out loud.

@tigerkaya: dont put them in limbo, i feel cannonball should have remained loyal to scott. cannonball has great leader & solder qualities & would do good on scotts team or on xforce. sunspot is his wingman, hands down.

I have no issues with the Avengers or their fans. I think, though x-books probably still sell better over all, that the Avengers have definitely taken the spotlight off of the X-Men. I do want that to change :-). But other than that every dog deserves it's day in the sun.

@xspectre28: Okay than put them on X-Force so I won't have to see them in Avengers again. The less X-men the better.

@tigerkaya: lol

@xspectre28: Agreed, less X-men the better.