@wdw: That it,if wonder woman can toe with toe fight superman i dont know why superman far stronger than her

@powerwoman:

we'll have to wait and see.

LOL!

I am so behind...

So -- the reason why Batman doesn't want Superman and Wonder Woman to date is because should Wonder Woman ever need to be put down (so-to-speak), Superman is the only being who might be able to? I know I must be missing something -- dating is a problem because why? Superman might break her heart or make her angry that she snaps? Is this what Batman is saying? To me, revealing to Superman that he would be the only chance against a gone rogue Wonder Woman would make no difference whether he was romantically involved with Wonder Woman or not -- do they not already care for each other as friends?

I really hope I am wrong.

Perhaps the Bat is afraid that they might be compromised at the same time if they are always together? I dunno, just a thought.

I think Tower of Babel (JLA) would disagree. Sure, it's not UNIQUE to her (it could be done to others), but not every hero's weakness is like kryptonite, where it only affects them (/their species).

@theovoxo: Where's that 3rd scan from? (with the floating teeth)

@lightsout: That's from the first issue of Justice League Dark.

@press_oblivion: Ah, thankya kindly.

wonder woman should be like her

I honestly believe that Wonder Woman would probably beat Superman in a fight, but not kill him, due to the simple fact Superman would always hold back considering what they have/had together. Superman most of the time puts his morals, and his heart, before anything else, I don't think he'd have the will to take down someone who he once loved (or still loves, who knows..). In an All-Out, Bloodlust, Sun-Dipped, God-Mode fight, I think Superman would win but only just, I can't say it wouldn't be an incredibly hard-fought fight but I still think Superman always has the will and power to reach the level of power and skills he needs to defeat his opponent (most of the time)...unless your Darkseid. Plus, Wonder Woman is only an Amazonian and a Demi-God, you can't really put her on the same power level as other Gods, unless I've been misinformed at which I will be happy for someone to correct me.

Good luck getting Kal to fit in that box, Bruce.

@press_oblivion: Until she has done it or something comparable, then no, she cannot. Otherwise you're just speculating like rabid DBZ fanpeople

Why does superman look different in JL21 than he did in Jl1,2, 3, etc..? besides the obvious "different artist" answer is theres really a reason why he looks different? Unless they have kept the same artists.

WW weakness is: Love for a men. And using her own lasso to tie her up! Easy for batman to know

@gwhh: I like this point

I have been thinking about this recently & I have to say Wonder Woman's Kryptonite is Dan Didio, Jeff Johns, Brian Azzarello & Jim Lee.

WW is not more powerful than SM. Read WW league of one. WW takes out the JLA members one by one, but has to "talk" superman out of stopping her going on her mission, after softening him up with a few blows whilst he is distracted, because she knows he is the one JLA member she couldn't stop in a straight fight. To me that sums it up. WW is not as powerful as SM

this is from the New 52?

What would the weaknesses be for the rest of the Justice League? Kryptonite wouldn't actually stop a rouge Superman because he'd probably be aware that it was going to be used against him. Would Batman slow down Flash's molecules? Would he somehow remove Green Lantern's ring? What does Batman constitute as rouge?

@bezza: No offense.but you says wonder woman not as powerful as superman isnt right,at least in the pre-52 wonder woman is superman power level,though sometime wonder woman looks like very bad,i'm agree,even in the comic book,a super-strength woman is very hard to can match a super-strength man,even supergirl most powerful version，Silver age supergirl,she only has few years is real equal in superman strength,but in the 1968's.dc make supergirl weaker than superman just like man stronger than woman,i'm hate it,The people at DC comics have teased readers with the question of "who is more super?" for a long time. They realize the inherent contradictions of the basic super hero concept from a scientific perspective. So the power balance between Superman and Supergirl or Wonder Woman, for that matter, is kept deliberately ambiguous because the writers know that a lot of us find it exciting to imagine that the superhero strength balance might actually be in favor of the female due to some natural female capacity for greater super powers, even in a world where the "normal" human strength balance averages the other way.

I don't think they will ever fully resolve this in the pages of DC comics. But that said, there has been a real shift toward true equality between the male and female characters on average in terms of strength. While the males remain generally bigger and more muscular, female super heroes and villains are not assumed to be stronger because they're male and vice versa.

The laws of physics do not apply in comic books. No matter how anyone attempts to explain the super powers of characters like Superman or Supergirl scientifically, they are all impossible. Therefore, anyone can decide what level of power any character is capable of to suit their whims.

The only reason Superman is expected to be stronger than Supergirl is because "normal" men are expected to be stronger than "normal" women. But if these "super" beings are able to defy the laws of physics by flying through space, travel through time, move planets, carry ships through the air, use their "super" breath in outer space to destroy a solar system ... et-cetera ... then why should the "normal" male-female strength ratio have any meaning?

I prefer Supergirl/wonder woman being stronger or at least equal in superman, because in this imaginary "super" universe where anything is possible, why can't females be superior?

I also can not understand,why in the 1968's DC change supergirl and superman,why supergirl is weaker than superman like our?man stronger than woman?This is gender discrimination?same time dc also change wonder woman,in the 1968's(oh hell,1968,again)

http://www.comicvine.com/wonder-woman-178-wonder-womans-rival/4000-109230/

look this,i dont know what happened in the 1968's,but why supergirl is weaker?why wonder woman no super-power?Machismo in its heyday?Chauvinism?i dont know,but i'm just know,Since 1968, any superpower women, there is no real sense of equality to match Superman

Never,untill new 52,Superman or other Male hero（like shazam) is superior supergirl or any female super heroes

why?just because man stronger than woman is real?come on!!!this is comic book!!!

Everything seems to depend on circumstance.

Superman seems to be the most powerful superhero, otherwise Batman wouldn't have suggested the he was "Wonder Woman's kryptonite." On the flip side, Wonder Woman is the single best fighter in the DC universe. I don't see why everyone has to make a distinction on who'd win in a WW vs. SM fight. The concept itself is so wishy-washy. We'd have to as these questions: Where are they fighting? WHY are they fighting? What is the setting? Who has the higher desire to win? What is each heroes' state of mind? What kind of equipment do they have?

Seems like a moot point to argue who'd win, because it's so situational. Both are extremely powerful in their own right.

One of the many reasons Wonder Woman is a character that seriously needs revising. Just boringly invincible.

There isn't a rock that makes her crap her pants when its near her, that does not mean a way cannot be found to beat her.

"Because Wonder Woman doesn't have a Kryptonite, Clark!". Best quote ever. New 52 just keeps getting more exciting.

Agreed, Batman should have had a better reason to deal with WW.

@whinehaus: The people think superman is far stronger than wonder woman so he can wins

This is perhaps is true, at least in the silver age is true,but since post-crisis,wonder woman has power upgrade to superman levels,Although PG or SG is stronger than her,But the gap between them is not very great

superman raw strength:10

powergirl:9 or 9.5

supergirl:8.5 or 9

wonder woman,:8 or 8.5,sometime is 9

Superman can absolutely take out Wonder Woman if she went rouge.

Guys...seriously...this again?

What's it gonna take to finally put this tired old debate to rest? I swear if they released a comic where Superman ripped out Wonder Woman's lungs and marched up and down Metropolis playing them like an accordion, this debate would still be going on.

Hypothetical situation, if Superman and Wonder Woman, both with clear heads ever fought one on one, no writer would ever have the balls to have Wonder Woman flat out beat Superman. Even if a writer did, DC wouldn't allow it. Don't even bring up Sacrifice, Superman thought he was fighting Doomsday, an opponent with an entirely different fighting style than Diana's. It's like Triple H and Bruce Lee.

Just give it a rest already. Superman is the guardian of Earth for a reason.

Also I find it funny that Batman says Superman is the only one that can stop a rogue Wonder Woman, when Martian Manhunter and The Flash are both very capable of doing the same thing. In fact I would argue that due to Clark and Diana's relationship, MM should be the go to guy to stop her.

@press_oblivion: batman didn't include the emotional spectrum into that equation which made it faulty.

@mpfly88: Wonder woman,has a long time ago people think she is weak,even when wonder woman help superman moving the earth

That clear, since after the pre-crisis, the writer has been trying to strengthen the power of wonder woman, making her matching Superman,so,why not only superman can stop him?superman press the earth five days,MM didnt

@powerwoman:

MM doesn't need his strength to beat WW. His intangibility is the dealbreaker here. Hell due to his phasing abilities, if he wanted to he could just reach inside her and do all kinds of nasty things to her insides. This is why Superman once said of all the beings on Earth he'd be afraid to fight, Martian Manhunter is at the top of the list.

BTW I don't think Wonder Woman is weak. If anything she's kinda OP these days. It's like the writers don' t know how to make Wonder Woman more popular than she is, so they just keep pulling things out their *** to make her more powerful.

MMH is not part of the JL. Batman wouldn't make a plan such as this with variables he felt were too unpredictable. I'm sure he wishes he didn't have to rely on Superman to take out himself or WW.

@drgnx: Up

You dont think wonder woman is weak,but has a lot of people think wonder woman is weak(More like deliberate targeting all of Female Heroes，Especially is strength of female heroes,they are think man always stronger than woman,even in the comic book)

Another fact is,wonder woman isnt has enough respect feats，I totally understand why people think she is weak,that why i'm hope DC writers give her some awesome feats,new 52 wonder woman no any Impressive feats

I don't think Wonder Woman is weak at all.

So basically you are saying that Superman can beat Wonder Woman because of the politics of DC comics and it's writers?

Prior to visiting this thread, I didn't know about Wondy's new "god mode". It reminds me of Goku taking off his weighted bracers, shirt and boots to fight seriously. I have no idea how powerful Wondy is supposed to be in that state though. Until such a time when those questions are answered then I'd have to give Supes the edge on any fight he had against Wondy, clear head, blood lusted or not, because the fact is that Superman has shown on panel that he can exceed a hundred times the speed of light and lift the weight of the Earth almost effortlessly. Feats are feats. Wondy DOES have an edge against Supes, but it includes what would basically be "prep time". Diana has access to magical weaponry. Even in pre-Flashpoint her dagger could easily cut Superman in "For the Tomorrrow" because it was magic. Using magical weaponry could give Wondy a 50/50 chance, but in all other scenarios I'd give it to Supes at least 8 out of 10 times.

@lion_heart22: DC isnt give wonder woman good strength feats in the New 52...

In fact, this is not a fair fight

No i'm saying Superman can beat Wonder Woman because he has the ability to do so, AND because of the politics of DC comics and it's writers.

Politics aside, yes indeed Superman has the ability to beat Wonder Woman But Wonder Woman also has the ability to beat Superman. That is the point of the debate and why it will continue and continue. It’s not a winnable debate but people will continue to debate it anyway.

You are also forgetting to mention that DC comics will NEVER allow Superman to Defeat Wonder Woman in a fair fight.

Over the last 70 years Wonder Woman and Superman have only REALLY fought as their lives depended on it 2 times. Both times Superman was brainwashed into fighting Wonder Woman and both times Wonder Woman was able to “STOP” the rampaging superman.

I am not trying to argue who would win. I am just trying to point out that the continued debate is not an open and shut case and anyone who thinks it is does not fully understand the characters involved.

@powerwoman: @lion_heart22:

I have always been curious why people put so much emphasis on Superman ability to lift weight and his travel speed when determining his fighting ability rather than actual fighting skill.

In the real world as long as two opponents are able to inflict damage on the other, the amount of of continuous weight they can lift is irrelevant and fighting skill become the central factor in determining the outcome

In many fighting sports they have a weight class not a strength class because a large difference in weight can give one opponent a serious advantage however a difference in strength is of no concern as long as the weight is close

In the case of Superman and Wonder Woman their weight difference is negligible and Wonder Woman is clearly able to injure Superman, survive his hardest punches, evade his quickest attacks, block his heat vision at will and escape his cold breath

So when people say something like superman can toss a planet or bench press a neutron star I have a hard time wondering how that helps him against other opponents who are capable of injuring him and withstanding his most powerful attacks.

Superman is stronger than wonder woman for sure,but isnt much,wonder woman has better fights,that can help her to beat superman or at least stop him

if superman strength level is 10,wonder woman is 8 or 8.5,or even 9

Its funny how Wonder woman seems to have gotten stronger over the years. In the TV series, the best she could do was hold up one end of a truck. Superman in the 70s was doing way more than this! I think Superman is supposed to be physically the strongest DC character there is (out of the main ones), perhaps Shazam excepting and WW is a little lower but makes up for it with superior fighting skills. In the human world, the strongest men are stronger than the strongest women, so I don't see it unreasonable for Superman to be number one, but there's no reason why a skilful woman fighter cannot beat a strong man.

@bezza: Comic book isnt our world,they are not true,so a strongest woman can stronger than a strongest man

but,yes,superman stronger than wonder woman,but not too much,wonder woman has better fight that can help her beat superman

Plot convenience. Every time there's a brainwashed Superman somebody has to stop him and break the curse. I also think a lot of people took that Sacrifice fight at face value. See I don't like it when people argue that a bloodlusted Superman is more dangerous. Depending on who he's fighting, I disagree with that. Against a brawler like Doomsday or Darkseid for example, a bloodlusted Superman would be a threat to them. But against a highly trained combatant like Wonder Woman, Superman would fair a lot better clear headed.

During that fight with Diana, Superman thought he was fighting Doomsday, who's fighting skills are polar opposite from Diana's. It's like Triple H and Bruce Lee. That's why he was caught off guard so many times. Since when has Doomsday been known to throw a tiara? I think the problem with that fight was that it was too subtle towards that fact, and that's why so many people started think "OH! Wonder Woman flat out beat Superman! She's more powerful than him!"

The fact is Superman doesn't get many opportunities to display his cunning, intelligence, and fighting skills. Because most of the time his strength and powers are enough to take down his opponent. But he knows Wonder Woman, and he knows exactly what she's capable of. If he went into that fight, knowing he was fighting Diana, it would've played out differently. He wouldn't have been caught off guard so many times.

I've always been of the mind that Diana is capable of taking down Superman. But if these two fought, with no odd circumstances attached, just them both clear headed and not holding back, Superman would win the majority of the fights. There's no doubt in my mind about that.

I am guessing Batman is saying that to deceive Superman for tricking Wonder Woman in order for the real plan to work. Batman would pull that

What we know of Wonder Woman that isn't lazy writing? Is there an expert here because I am not sure? I am guessing she is hardheaded an over confident and with her now being a Greek demigod that is very likely.

@mpfly88: Because superman though Diana was doomsday he did not hold back, he unleashed his full strength and rage. Diana said that she was holding back but barely in that fight. It is true that the fight might go differently he had he been in his right mind,but we did learn from that fight that she can handle his full strength

The main reason Superman is stronger is his true level of power has always been an unknown, even when he cuts loose.

I prefer Supergirl/wonder woman being stronger or at least equal in superman, because in this imaginary "super" universe where anything is possible, why can't females be superior?

Why should they be? There's no written rule that says "Men have to be stronger" or vise versa. Wonder Woman, Power Girl and Supergirl are stronger than 99% of the males in the DC Universe. Maybe not exactly 99%, but you get my point.

I agree with what @theovoxo said. It's a fight that would last a lifetime, or until someone calls it a day. :D