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    Wonder Woman

    Character » Wonder Woman appears in 8719 issues.

    The Amazon princess, blessed with god-like super abilities, Wonder Woman is one of Earth's most powerful defenders of peace, justice, and equality and a member of the Justice League. She is considered an archetype for many heroines outside of comic book. Her initial origin depicted her as a clay baby brought to life by patron goddess Aphrodite, but in recent years she has been depicted as the daughter of Zeus and Amazon queen Hippolyta.

    Why is New 52 Wonder Woman compassionate?

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    jphulk26

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    What a bunch of excuse makers. Admit it´s a damn plot hole and perhaps the story has got slightly better since the atrocious origin changed, that is actually what needs fixing in this story. Azzerrelo could have practically told the same story without his big ideas on how to "improve" wonder woman that don´t make any sense and leave more questions than they do answers and don´t make her any more relatable or unrelatable than pre-New 52 Diana who was a miles better character than Johns or Azz are writing. Pre-New 52 WW suffered from bad writing in general, it was not an inherent flaw in the character as Marston, Perrez, Simone, Rucka and now Azzerrelo have shown. In fact all the most appealing aspects of Azz´s run are where his WW, is more like the old one. All the stupid crap is from the changes.

    1. Amazons are immortal, so don´t need to have murder children or men to survive in Azz´s run.

    In fact logically speaking they should not have children if they are immortal as surely that would mean the Island would become vastly overpopulated.

    2. His Hercules origin has to be the most uninspired origin of any DC character including Plastic Man.

    3. Clearly compassion is bred by parental figures. If your whole society is backwards and semi-fascist then the children will surely show sign of that. Just like kids under Nazi Germany were so indoctrinated that they would even spy and tell on their own parents if they thought they were traitors to the Volk. There is one: absolutely no sensible reason given for Amazons hiding their fascist convictions from Diana and Two: No reason that growing up in a Fascist society that she would not absorb those values. And the Amazon society depicted in The New 52 is Fascist. Just like Hitler saw jews as subhuman waste, or, slave labor, so do the Amazons see men.

    4. Just like that stupid film Man Of Steel butchered and raped superman by turning Pa Kent into a senseless suicidal psychopath, with no regard for human life, even his own, and Clark Kent being brought up bullied and victimized by everyone he knows, yet somehow he just magically becomes this heroic figure, so to does this run, fall into the same trap. Granted this run is not as bad as The Man Of Steel by a mile and has some intelligent elements and characterizations and defo has some aspects that need to be kept in future ww runs, the pathetic origin, is one of the things that should be immediately discarded. Its stupid, bad storytelling, full of plot holes and quite frankly disrespectful to the character and her fans intelligence. I can see why some like all this dark, twisted, nonsense. I like dark and gritty as well, but when it´s done thoughtfully like Fight Club, American Psycho, Watchmen, etc. That is dark and gritty but makes sense. Not just dark and gritty because thats in amongst a bunch of teenagers who have grown up in an unfortunately dark period of history (post 9´11, Iraq War, Recession, lower incomes, untrustworthy Governments etc) that has made the perpetually cynical about everything.

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    Outside_85

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    A. And infanticide is better?

    B. Hephaestus is the blacksmith of the gods and makes the finest weapons known to the Amazons. So yes even if the Amazons considered them unworthy of life they would still trade them to him since the Amazons consider themselves warriors and would want the best weapons.

    C. It is not necessarily the safest way. And a lot of things were once "tradition" that were abandoned centuries ago.

    D. It wouldn't be civilized by the standards of most cultures since ancient times so that is not an excuse. And that practicality show a clear disregard for the lives of males compared to female when with a little effort they could find another way.

    For the rest, again it was not only that but their willingness to threaten Hermes, one of their gods of all beings that shows they demonstrates hated. If the Greek myths are even halfway true in the New 52 Wonder Woman Hermes is one of the most likeable, least jerkish gods.

    And what does Hera have to do with this? And it still does not explain that if she was raised alongside her fellow Amazons who show such disregard if not hatred for men why she is so compassionate to men.

    A) I never said that. What I said was that your suggestions weren't very good, certainly not a realistic option the secretive Amazons would take.

    B) No they wouldn't. Because a person considered unworthy of life are the sort you send to the electric chair.

    C) You are talking about a people who have stuck to the spear, sword and bow as their primary armament for 3000 years regardless if the writer was called Perez, Marston, Rucka or Azzarello, that alone should tell you how unchanging the Amazons are. And the raids at sea is the safest way for the Amazons to do what they need to do, they dont risk discovery, their targets are going to be unarmed and everyone gets to go home unless the sea claims them.

    D) You aren't thinking it through when you say it's easy to adopt kids away to a better life, it's a modern perception thats how it goes. For the greatest part of those 3000 years, those kids would end up in poverty and slavery, plus you have the risk that comes with these kids are likely as superhuman as their mothers.

    When are you going to understand that hatred is a very specific thing and that the Amazons have yet to display it?

    Specifically in this case it would be that the Amazons would all be of the opinion that all men need to have harm befall them or die.

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    r2datu

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    I guess this just ties back into the whole Nature vs Nurture debate. Marston Era Wonder Woman seemed fairly decent even though the Amazons were also pretty bat shit crazy back then (they had annual man-hunting sessions).

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    seekquaze

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    @archizoom: It only clear if you say distrust and dislike equate to hatred.

    Distrust is wondering why a man has come to your island and keeping a safe distance until you discover his intentions. Hatred is regarding his mere presence as a crime that requires you to castrate him. The Amazons fall into the latter.

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    SayaOtonashi

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    Actually Marston's Amazons did have children in an Newspapers comics shows amazons also did clay bodies that's how Mala was born. In terms of the Island being over populated he knows. Unless the Island is magic and as unlimated space for Aphrodite did say they will never be hungry and no disease

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    seekquaze

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    #56  Edited By seekquaze

    @outside_85 said:

    A) I never said that. What I said was that your suggestions weren't very good, certainly not a realistic option the secretive Amazons would take.

    B) No they wouldn't. Because a person considered unworthy of life are the sort you send to the electric chair.

    C) You are talking about a people who have stuck to the spear, sword and bow as their primary armament for 3000 years regardless if the writer was called Perez, Marston, Rucka or Azzarello, that alone should tell you how unchanging the Amazons are. And the raids at sea is the safest way for the Amazons to do what they need to do, they dont risk discovery, their targets are going to be unarmed and everyone gets to go home unless the sea claims them.

    D) You aren't thinking it through when you say it's easy to adopt kids away to a better life, it's a modern perception thats how it goes. For the greatest part of those 3000 years, those kids would end up in poverty and slavery, plus you have the risk that comes with these kids are likely as superhuman as their mothers.

    When are you going to understand that hatred is a very specific thing and that the Amazons have yet to display it?

    Specifically in this case it would be that the Amazons would all be of the opinion that all men need to have harm befall them or die.

    A. Yes, they were a more realistic option that would only have taken a bit more effort. The Amazon took the easy route.

    B. Wonder Woman thought the men were enslaved to Hephaestus. Considering she was an Amazon and the general Olympian disregard for mortals it does not take too much to think the rest of the Amazons thought they were selling the men into slavery as well. So yes that is a fate you would give someone you despise in exchange for the best weapons known to gods or mortals.

    C. Spear, sword or bow have been the primary armament for 3000 years. That does not mean much. And for centuries ships have travelled armed due to being either Navel vessels or fear of pirates. So not everyone gets to go home. And as far as writers go I am talking about the New 52 Amazons who are different from previous versions.

    D. It has been customary to leave children on the steps of churches for centuries. That would have been a plausible and secretive method. And since were Amazons born superhuman? I had always heard that it was their training. Denied the training they are regular humans.

    And given the reception Hermes received it follows they despise men. They placed so little value on their male children they willingly sold them into what sounds like as a lifetime of slavery in exchange for weapons.

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    Outside_85

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    Distrust is wondering why a man has come to your island and keeping a safe distance until you discover his intentions. Hatred is regarding his mere presence as a crime that requires you to castrate him. The Amazons fall into the latter.

    Yet none of the Amazons made a move to do so, leaving the threat as little more than hot air.

    .

    A. Yes, they were a more realistic option that would only have taken a bit more effort. The Amazon took the easy route.

    B. Wonder Woman thought the men were enslaved to Hephaestus. Considering she was an Amazon and the general Olympian disregard for mortals it does not take too much to think the rest of the Amazons thought they were selling the men into slavery as well. So yes that is a fate you would give someone you despise in exchange for the best weapons known to gods or mortals.

    C. Spear, sword or bow have been the primary armament for 3000 years. That does not mean much. And for centuries ships have travelled armed due to being either Navel vessels or fear of pirates. So not everyone gets to go home. And as far as writers go I am talking about the New 52 Amazons who are different from previous versions.

    D. It has been customary to leave children on the steps of churches for centuries. That would have been a plausible and secretive method. And since were Amazons born superhuman? I had always heard that it was their training. Denied the training they are regular humans.

    And given the reception Hermes received it follows they despise men. They placed so little value on their male children they willingly sold them into what sounds like as a lifetime of slavery in exchange for weapons.

    A) They were unrealistic for a people that had decided to remain secret.

    B) We have no idea what was and wasn't said by Hippolyta and Hephaestus when they decided to trade boys for arms, because it's not been detailed. As likely as it would be that the Amazons didn't care what he did, it's equally possible they were happy to know the kids would have a life. What Diana initially saw as slavery was only what she thought it was based on Hephs sketchy tale of how he acquired the boys.

    C) Except the majority of ships that were trade vessels, who's combat abilities were severely inadequate for anything other than scaring potential threats away.As for the weapons, it does tell you a lot about the Amazons mindset that they favor outdated arms and tactics even if they easily could have Heph apply them with better.

    D) Except you had to get to the church and risk getting seen and brave the ocean to get there, you'd have to be careful about picking the church too often, you couldn't dump all the kids at the same church. Just getting the kids in the first place is likely considered a great risk in itself as it is, tripling that threat isn't a viable option. Also the boys may/may not be as ageless as Hippolyta, which will raise questions.

    And as Diana found out, it wasn't. And in Hermes' case; noone made a move against him, even when Diana was too far away to be of any help. What the Amazons were doing in the scene was very similar to what the Ewok did when it encountered Leia, growling and pointing it's spear at her because it's unsure what she is going to do. In the Amazons case, the spear is just verbal and none of the Amazons were actually armed when they emerged from the bushes.

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    seekquaze

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    @seekquaze said:

    Distrust is wondering why a man has come to your island and keeping a safe distance until you discover his intentions. Hatred is regarding his mere presence as a crime that requires you to castrate him. The Amazons fall into the latter.

    Yet none of the Amazons made a move to do so, leaving the threat as little more than hot air.


    Because Wonder Woman stopped them. She made it clear she would fight them and they respect her since she is the princess.


    A) They were unrealistic for a people that had decided to remain secret.

    B) We have no idea what was and wasn't said by Hippolyta and Hephaestus when they decided to trade boys for arms, because it's not been detailed. As likely as it would be that the Amazons didn't care what he did, it's equally possible they were happy to know the kids would have a life. What Diana initially saw as slavery was only what she thought it was based on Hephs sketchy tale of how he acquired the boys.

    C) Except the majority of ships that were trade vessels, who's combat abilities were severely inadequate for anything other than scaring potential threats away.As for the weapons, it does tell you a lot about the Amazons mindset that they favor outdated arms and tactics even if they easily could have Heph apply them with better.

    D) Except you had to get to the church and risk getting seen and brave the ocean to get there, you'd have to be careful about picking the church too often, you couldn't dump all the kids at the same church. Just getting the kids in the first place is likely considered a great risk in itself as it is, tripling that threat isn't a viable option. Also the boys may/may not be as ageless as Hippolyta, which will raise questions.

    And as Diana found out, it wasn't. And in Hermes' case; noone made a move against him, even when Diana was too far away to be of any help. What the Amazons were doing in the scene was very similar to what the Ewok did when it encountered Leia, growling and pointing it's spear at her because it's unsure what she is going to do. In the Amazons case, the spear is just verbal and none of the Amazons were actually armed when they emerged from the bushes.

    A. No, they were not. Small groups of women going to different cities every few years and sleeping with sailors in one-night stand would not be noticeable. Numerous unnamed and untracked people migrate to cities all the time.

    B. And again given how the Amazons were originally willing to murder the infants you have zero evidence to indicate the Amazons wanted the males to have a happy life. You are grasping at straws.

    C. Yet were often armed none the less. And if Hephaestus is supplying the weapons it stands to reason the metallurgy is far superior to anything mortals make. Sort of like the Asgardians using swords in the Thor films.

    D. The Amazons were already braving the ocean in the first place. And again, send the Amazons to different cities a few at a time and have them leave the child at dawn, midnight, etc. And if the boys are not ageless it is not an issue. They age normally. So again you have no point.

    And again, when they first arrived on the island Diana made it clear Hermes and Zola were under her protection. That is reason enough for Diana to leave them alone.

    Further conversation on this topic is pointless. You obviously are not going to change your mind. Virtually everyone else that has posted on this topic feels differently. Therefore I don't see what more we have to discuss.

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    Outside_85

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    Because Wonder Woman stopped them. She made it clear she would fight them and they respect her since she is the princess.

    A. No, they were not. Small groups of women going to different cities every few years and sleeping with sailors in one-night stand would not be noticeable. Numerous unnamed and untracked people migrate to cities all the time.

    B. And again given how the Amazons were originally willing to murder the infants you have zero evidence to indicate the Amazons wanted the males to have a happy life. You are grasping at straws.

    C. Yet were often armed none the less. And if Hephaestus is supplying the weapons it stands to reason the metallurgy is far superior to anything mortals make. Sort of like the Asgardians using swords in the Thor films.

    D. The Amazons were already braving the ocean in the first place. And again, send the Amazons to different cities a few at a time and have them leave the child at dawn, midnight, etc. And if the boys are not ageless it is not an issue. They age normally. So again you have no point.

    E. And again, when they first arrived on the island Diana made it clear Hermes and Zola were under her protection. That is reason enough for Diana to leave them alone.

    F. Further conversation on this topic is pointless. You obviously are not going to change your mind. Virtually everyone else that has posted on this topic feels differently. Therefore I don't see what more we have to discuss.

    Yet she had to speak her name for them to realize she was with the group. And still, both Zola and Hermes were isolated in a room while a huge crowd watched Diana fight Aleka, if anyone really wanted to bust Hermes' nuts they could have easily done it there.

    A) Except by the only people the Amazons truly need to fear: the number of immortals that live in DC that would want them or their land; people like Vandal Savage, Mordru, Cain and Ra's Al Ghul. And sure, no one will be suspicious a bunch of strange women appearing one night for a bit of booty before vanishing, except perhaps various guards at the harbor, city gates, streets. Not to mention, women generally didn't travel in single sex groups unless they were carrying something infectious.

    Returning to the mainland carries the risk of one or more of the Amazons getting captured by who known what and through her Paradise Island could be uncovered and invaded, which has already happened.

    B) I am the one grasping at straws? While you have yet to provide a single shred of evidence to support your own opinion other than guessing at the Amazons mindset?

    C) Yeah, with knives, clubs and the occasional sword. Merchant vessels are called as such because they aren't suited for combat and the people on board aren't trained professionals. And it's still like this today unless you happen to be on a ship that's passing by Solmalia.

    D) Which back then was akin to walking through a minefield, it's bad enough they have to risk it once, they are not going to do so again. It's a question of practicality vs. modern morality, the Amazons are just being practical.

    E) Which would mean nothing if the Amazons hate men as much as you wanted them to.

    F) Yes, you agree with 3 people that everyone else here knows for their blind and ill-informed hatred of the current run, if you want to throw your lot in with them, go ahead.

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    tigerkaya

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    @jphulk26 said:

    What a bunch of excuse makers. Admit it´s a damn plot hole and perhaps the story has got slightly better since the atrocious origin changed, that is actually what needs fixing in this story. Azzerrelo could have practically told the same story without his big ideas on how to "improve" wonder woman that don´t make any sense and leave more questions than they do answers and don´t make her any more relatable or unrelatable than pre-New 52 Diana who was a miles better character than Johns or Azz are writing. Pre-New 52 WW suffered from bad writing in general, it was not an inherent flaw in the character as Marston, Perrez, Simone, Rucka and now Azzerrelo have shown. In fact all the most appealing aspects of Azz´s run are where his WW, is more like the old one. All the stupid crap is from the changes.

    1. Amazons are immortal, so don´t need to have murder children or men to survive in Azz´s run.

    In fact logically speaking they should not have children if they are immortal as surely that would mean the Island would become vastly overpopulated.

    2. His Hercules origin has to be the most uninspired origin of any DC character including Plastic Man.

    3. Clearly compassion is bred by parental figures. If your whole society is backwards and semi-fascist then the children will surely show sign of that. Just like kids under Nazi Germany were so indoctrinated that they would even spy and tell on their own parents if they thought they were traitors to the Volk. There is one: absolutely no sensible reason given for Amazons hiding their fascist convictions from Diana and Two: No reason that growing up in a Fascist society that she would not absorb those values. And the Amazon society depicted in The New 52 is Fascist. Just like Hitler saw jews as subhuman waste, or, slave labor, so do the Amazons see men.

    4. Just like that stupid film Man Of Steel butchered and raped superman by turning Pa Kent into a senseless suicidal psychopath, with no regard for human life, even his own, and Clark Kent being brought up bullied and victimized by everyone he knows, yet somehow he just magically becomes this heroic figure, so to does this run, fall into the same trap. Granted this run is not as bad as The Man Of Steel by a mile and has some intelligent elements and characterizations and defo has some aspects that need to be kept in future ww runs, the pathetic origin, is one of the things that should be immediately discarded. Its stupid, bad storytelling, full of plot holes and quite frankly disrespectful to the character and her fans intelligence. I can see why some like all this dark, twisted, nonsense. I like dark and gritty as well, but when it´s done thoughtfully like Fight Club, American Psycho, Watchmen, etc. That is dark and gritty but makes sense. Not just dark and gritty because thats in amongst a bunch of teenagers who have grown up in an unfortunately dark period of history (post 9´11, Iraq War, Recession, lower incomes, untrustworthy Governments etc) that has made the perpetually cynical about everything.

    DAMN RIGHT!! I say lets OMD her Nu52 story and origin.

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    deactivated-5a77aa5e0a324

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    Probably because of her upbringing and experiences being teased as a child. Despite the more militant stance the Amazons have on men, I feel like Hippolyta still would've raised Diana to be a good person.

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