I've read the first two trades of the New 52 Wonder Woman and was wondering why she is so compassionate given the environment she was raised on. The Olympian gods are more like their mythological selves than the nicer versions that showed up in past Wonder Woman titles save Ares. The Amazons came across to me more like the traditional man-hating warriors of Greek myth than the lovers of peace from past versions of the character as well. Why then did Wonder Woman turn out so compassionate? Did Hippolyta just raise her differently? I know certain unpleasant facts about the Amazons like what they did to males born to them were hidden from Diana.

@seekquaze: i know the amazon weren't to kindly to male in the past my assumption is yes Hippolyta just raise her differently especially since she knew her daughter was a demigod

She was teased as a child, the others called her "Clay". Perhaps it was beaten into her though verbal abuse and she would be more sensitive to other peoples emotions not wanting them to feel as she did being bullied. . . though Johns' interpretation feels nothing. Anyway, this is just speculation, there's nothing published that would give a definitive answer.

I think her and Superman are rubbing off on one another.

To be honest, I still don't see why people regard the Amazons as man-hating. If they launched campaigns and attacks against men simply to kill them, then I would agree with the notion. But what we have is that Amazons have deep issues of trust regarding men, and the raids they need conduct in order to preserve their nation and their way of life.

With that said, I think Diana (and other young Amazons) are taught to respect and feel with their sisters and comrades. As such, Diana is simply able to rise above old grudges of her people and include outsiders in what she considers her circle of comrades. And it probably helps that she's been exposed to Man's World a lot more than 99.9% of the other Amazons, so she isn't basing her views on outdated information.

Add to this, we have/had Exoristos from Demon Knights, and while she was very quite to boast her own and her sisters superiority over men, it wasn't like she went around and killed any man who looked at her the wrong way. Plus, she did bring Vandal Savage, one of the most repulsive males of the DCU, to Paradise Island and he left without loosing any of his limbs (though Hippolyta threatened him with that at his departure).

@outside_85: They are immortal it's stated in the comics.Also, Alexa doesn't see, respectful. Also, this is others written the amazons which I do accepted but they do show they are sexist towards men.

@sayaotonashi: Being sexist through ignorance isn't the same as hating. As for Aleka, as her name is; that's one person out of several hundred Amazons, which ofc is the same with Exoristos. Finally, the only Amazon we know for certain is immortal, or ageless rather, is Hippolyta.

@outside_85: excuse me but it does states by the priestess in the comic where strife causing trouble and them burying their dead.

@sayaotonashi: which is the sort of thing most religions try to sell to their believers; you are immortal beyond your flesh, you live forever, but on another world. Anyways you are correct, as I am forgetting that both Exoristos and Diana's girlfriend from SM/WW are older than they look, with Ex not aging a day over the course of 30 years.

@sayaotonashi: They die by the droves, just ask Cain.

@outside_85: NO they don't. Soule wrote this.

I'm not sure if I'll age, even though I am off the Island," said to Hessia who has aged, conclusion on Island the Amazon's don't age.

I don't see her as being that compassionate. She seems meaner than her pre 52 version to me

@sayaotonashi: I suggest you try and read post 9 again, closely.

The whole sex pirate thing doesn't make any sense They don't age they can die. I kinda of wonder why they do it so often 3x a century

@jayc1324: How is she meaner?

@outside_85: Didn't she kill the god of war.

@jayc1324: Either she did it or the First Born would have. Like she did with Max Lords, she did what she had to do to prevent greater evil.

I don't know about her being meaner, but there are few examples of compassionate acts outside of her regard for Zola.

There have been many instances where she's compassionate to people besides Zola. We've seen her be that way with Hera, Hermes, the minotaur, Siracca, and Orion.

@sayaotonashi: they don't age but they can die, that's what I thought

@divingfalcon713: you're right.

This kinda comes from trying to incorporate the Justice League Wonder Woman as the same character but it kinda seems like she didn't develop a lot of her virtuous characteristics till she joined the Justice League. Although her zero issue kinda contradicted that.

And I haven't seen that much compassion in her 52 solo comic. There have been a few random acts but they always seemed so out of character to the way she's being written though most of the book.

haha thats a load she's nothing more than a war mongering, bloodthirsty and dependent on of Superman female Kratos. The new52 version is a joke and shallow representative of Wonder Woman. I look forward to when this version dies maybe than a better version will rise.

You've been trying to push that "the Amazons aren't really manhaters" bs from the beginning but still nobody is buying it.

That's one of the failures of Azz's run, he's yet to reconcile the major plot hole of the origin of Diana's love and compassion effectively. It clearly didn't come from Hippolyta nor the Amazons.

That's what's so infuriating, all it would take is a few throwaway lines from Azz to make the story more satisfying, yet he refuses to do it.

I havent seen you post anything that proves the Amazons hate men. So why dont you pack your own bs together and find us some?

And I look forward to seeing your views being discarded as the abject, embittered and stuck in the mud minority when the majority of people value this Wonder Woman run as one of the best the character has ever had. Maybe that'll stick in your mind in your rejection of one of the best versions of Wonder Woman and her world to date.

@scorpio_cassadine said:

@outside_85 said:

@scorpio_cassadine said:

You've been trying to push that "the Amazons aren't really manhaters" bs from the beginning but still nobody is buying it.

That's one of the failures of Azz's run, he's yet to reconcile the major plot hole of the origin of Diana's love and compassion effectively. It clearly didn't come from Hippolyta nor the Amazons.

That's what's so infuriating, all it would take is a few throwaway lines from Azz to make the story more satisfying, yet he refuses to do it.

I havent seen you post anything that proves the Amazons hate men. So why dont you pack your own bs together and find us some?

Really? Thats your proof? Either you are easily offended, actually buy into the Amazons puffing their chests or you really have nothing.

Well Azz run might have it's moment but it's not selling well at all . In fact Dc has been losing money since the start of the reboot. Wonder Woman Azz is right back in sales and also it's an opinion because I can tell u that there always different views and this is one of them. Dc is losing money on New 52. All there this doesn't mean anything I just feel the all thing went wrong with them trying to put all the Superhero quickly . Batman went through 5 robins.

Honestly, bitter old Wonder Woman fans are worse than Storm fans these days.

Dunno about that. Storm fans are no where to be seen and then all of a sudden 10 of them will pop up in a battle thread and starting talking shit lol.

@scorpio_cassadine said:

As I said earlier, the raids were to ensure their own survival, it's not motivated by hatred of men. You have any more you want to try?

You can say whatever, that doesn't make it true.

If the Amazons didn't have a hatred of men, why did they threaten to cut off Hermes' nuts because they smelled like "putrid musk"? And if they didn't hate men, why was his smell so "offensive"?

Why did Hermes specifically tell Zola not to mention her love of men while she was on the island? It's because he knew that if it were broadcast, that fact would upset the local population.

If the Amazons didn't hate men, why kill the sailors? There had to be another way to procreate and keep the island a secret, was it just for $#*ts and giggles?

And if they didn't hate men, why were the male babies considered "failures"? Why were they left for dead or sold to Hephaestus?

And while I'm asking questions, why is it so important to you that the Amazons aren't seen as misanthropes, despite all evidence to the contrary? What's in it for you?

And thats coming from you? Have you tried reading these books without the preset notions of wanting to hate them before you touched the cover?

As I said, they are puffing their chests, in hopes perhaps he will go away. Besides it's not clear if it's Hermes they smell or Zola being pregnant with a god.

Because the Amazons are still a traumatized people, to them loving a man is now impossible, they've had to reduce men to a resource they only need to get into contact with every 33 years.

I am still waiting for someone to come up with an intelligent alternative to killing the sailors, and I've been 'waiting' for quite a few months now.

Because they were useless to Amazon society, an unnecessary additional mouth to feed, nothing more.

Because I hate coming here seeing people scream and shout because they don't or won't understand the mechanics behind the choices of the characters on the page.

The Amazons of the New 52 cannot be man-haters, not matter how much you like to think they are, because, so far, none of the things they've done have been motivated by a hatred of men.

Well if the guys had been willing they could have just let them go.

Yes, yes I have. I was willing to give Azzarello a chance, even after he arbitrarily changed Diana's origin and told us he "fixed" it. It wasn't until the infamous issue seven, where he kicked Wonder Woman fans in the teeth when we were down, that I stopped giving him the benefit of a doubt. That was when I knew he was the consummate Azzhole and had no love for us, nor Wonder Woman's mythos. I still continued buying the book out of completest tendencies, until I couldn't put up with the puns, plot holes and dues ex machina appearing out of the clear blue sky, any longer.

As for his Amazons, if they were merely issuing empty threats, why did they murder so many of their sisters in the confusion of the second issue? If they were merely "puffing out their chests" why were they still surrounding Diana, Zola and Hermes until Hippolyta showed up and stopped them?

And it's very clear these murderous Amazons were talking about Hermes' testicles because they undoubtedly said, "leave them to shrink and whither in the sand". A fetus isn't plural.

I agree and I've made this point that Wonder Woman needs to be properly developed from someone from Paradise Island to the person she is now; there's no way that Wonder Woman had this completely separate prospective from the rest of the Amazons; the feelings surely entered into her by osmosis; this is why I think Frank Miller produced the Wonder Woman closest to who she should be, until the first moments of her leaving Paradise Island to the character she's normally displayed is thoroughly hashed out. Again, not to keep sounding like a puppy dog broken record, but this is where Dr. Psycho comes in and could develop the dynamics between he and Wonder Woman, while developing them both as characters at the same time, and developing a specific and proper flavor of Wonder Woman; of course, her interaction with the members of the Justice League would further refine her character, except I don't want DC to exclude Dr. Psycho, or characters like him, from this development of Wonder Woman, mostly so that whether the issue of her perception of being compassionate can be properly observed without assumptions that she's really compassionate; from all of her post crisis interactions with Dr. Psycho, I cannot characterize her as compassionate; I'm unaware of any New 52 interactions with Dr. Psycho; her interaction with Hades was a good start for this exam, but Hades is too far on the other extreme of the spectrum, having no possibility of redemption; however, Dr. Psycho and similar characters, with his specific hangups with his appearance is what Wonder Woman needs to develop her personality; well, Orion was a good start, but their interaction was too brief, but Orion cannot be the only one; however, Dr. Psycho could be an only one, as Orion lacks some of Dr. Psycho's genuine hangups. I view Wonder Woman, after being thoroughly developed at this moment should resemble something of a Red Sonja like personality who's always checking herself, but often slipping back into her Amazon personality. Pre-crisis Wonder Woman does get my definition of meeting the compassionate label, after her interaction with Dr. Psycho in issue 160; however, their dynamics were not thoroughly developed, as a percentage of Wonder Woman's pre-crisis publication issues (e.g. Dr. Psycho needed at least 85% coverage, but got less than 5% coverage).

However, I reviewed back to Marston's first issues and realized that I did error in my perception of the Wonder Woman Amazons; I think my perception started to be created by the Perez origins, after having forgotten things about Marston's Amazons; I believe his origin story and my than lack of detailed knowledge of the Amazons is what gave me an uninformed perception of how the Wonder Woman character should have been, which allowed me to accept how her personality is usually displayed, until I came to the Perez origin story.

The callous killing of sailors and of the male infants shows a clear disregard for the lives of males if nothing else. Wonder Woman has shown a compassionate nature toward everyone from an early age despite Ares himself trying to train her. The thought of having to kill an infant horrified her even though she thought it might be necessary. The Amazons though showed a clear disgust for men with their willingness to kill them so needlessly.

If they Amazons wanted to have children, but not let the fathers know it would only have been slightly more complicated for them to go out into the world, seduce men with one-nights stands and leave. They then could put any male children up for adoption. Instead, they took the easiest path and killed everyone. Such disregard for life borders on if not outright hatred. So yes, they do come across a man-haters and for whatever reason Hippolyta deliberately hid this aspect of their society from Diana.

So you've spent 21 months of you life whining and moaning the book is going somewhere you don't want it to go? Well that's your own fault. And really, I can understand why Azzarello (or any writer for that matter) wont have any love or care for puritans, because they are impossible to please.

Read the second issue a little more closely and you will know why the Amazons started killing each other, it's not difficult. And yeah, why would the Amazons be cautious of one of their own Gods?

Mother and child fit under the definition of 'them'.

A) The sailors needed to die in order to preserve the secrecy of the Amazons existence.

B) The Amazons never showed joy when they killed. The mother of a boy child was even shown as being devastated when it was taken from her.

C) Mmm, yes, seduce and leave. Sure, no one will notice that dozens of superhuman women show up around the coastal cities of the Mediterranean every 30 years or so for a bit of snu-snu before vanishing in row boats.

D) You seems to confuse hatred for what the Amazons consider a necessary action.

So can I ask you something; is Ra's al-Ghul a combined man and woman hater because he's killed hundreds of thousands of each? Is Vandal Savage? Brainiac? Is the US a Japan hater because it felt it needed to wipe out two cities along with thousands of civilians rather than target the armed forces only?

A. A clear disregard for their lives and like I stated there were alternate ways around it.

B. Most mothers have an emotional connection to any children born of them. It still doesn't change that Amazon society as a whole considered males worthless and unworthy of life.

C. A way easily around that is instead of procreating every 30 years or so space it out more so a few women every year or so go out and maybe go further inland. It would take a bit more effort, but is doable.

D. It is not necessary the way they do it. It is the easiest way with again a clear disregard for male life that easily comes across as hatred.

As for the others you mention, different cultural backgrounds so trying to equate them is most likely a mistake. But, from what I know Ra's Al-Ghul thinks little of humans in general and thinks women are inferior. Vandal Savage thinks only of himself. Brainiac I doubt hates people because that puts too much emotion into it. All of them think they are superior so other beings are not worth hating because they are so far beneath them. They are like ants. And may easily be what the Amazons as well. If so, frankly in their case I do not know which is worse.

Also, going back to the original post it raises the question of why Wonder Woman has concern for the lives of others including men when by all accounts the culture she was raised in at best (or worse) has no regard for the lives of men and engage in a practice that was considered barbaric centuries ago or based on comments they made as well hate men in general.

A) Not very good ones.

B) If they considered them unworthy of life, they wouldn't have let Hephaestus have them even if he was paying 3 times the price.

C) The Amazons have been doing this for so long that's it's long since become a tradition, it's also the safest way for them to do it. The last thing they want is someone like Cain having another go at them.

D) But it isn't, the Amazons do what they do out of need and practicality, it's not civilized or normal by our modern standards, but the Amazons aren't us.

Not at all, Al Ghul is an Arab, born in the time where the Muslim world was near the peak of human civilization, which is where the Amazons once were as well. In regards to his views on women... I don't think so, he may not feel overly threatened by her, but he knows more than any how formidable Talia is and that it's his doing that she is that. As for the rest; feeling superior to others is something other than hating them. Take Quentin Quire for instance, he definitely feels superior to everyone else (and probably is), but he doesn't hate people, even if they put him in school. Same with Spock, feels superior to everyone, but doesn't hate them.

Because Diana was raised to one day, if needed be, to rule the Amazons as a queen. Hippolyta obviously doesn't want Diana to end up being like Hera, so she had her become one of the Sisterhood so she can empathize with the troubles of her sisters. Diana has just applied that same ability to her ventures into Man's World, because it tells her how she can help.

A. And infanticide is better?

B. Hephaestus is the blacksmith of the gods and makes the finest weapons known to the Amazons. So yes even if the Amazons considered them unworthy of life they would still trade them to him since the Amazons consider themselves warriors and would want the best weapons.

C. It is not necessarily the safest way. And a lot of things were once "tradition" that were abandoned centuries ago.

D. It wouldn't be civilized by the standards of most cultures since ancient times so that is not an excuse. And that practicality show a clear disregard for the lives of males compared to female when with a little effort they could find another way.

For the rest, again it was not only that but their willingness to threaten Hermes, one of their gods of all beings that shows they demonstrates hated. If the Greek myths are even halfway true in the New 52 Wonder Woman Hermes is one of the most likeable, least jerkish gods.

And what does Hera have to do with this? And it still does not explain that if she was raised alongside her fellow Amazons who show such disregard if not hatred for men why she is so compassionate to men.

Because it's an inherent part of who she is. And in that lies some of the brilliance of Azzarello's run.

@outside_85: The Amazons are a misandrist society in the current run undeniably and that sits right with me because why not. The Amazons referred to the male genitalia as an offense and to men as offenders, Hermes told Zola to avoid mentioning she likes men in Paradise Island and that Diana is the perfect amazon because she was presumably conceived without a man's seed. Those references don't leave a lot of room for speculation. The Amazonian society itself is built upon the premise that men are unworthy of living amongst women so they cast them away. They don't weed out the boys and keep the girls just because, they see men as a pestilence.

@archizoom: It only clear if you say distrust and dislike equate to hatred.

@super-wonder:

Agree. But he/she was probably talking about on Trinity War, were she talks to Superman about he keep his enemies alive unlike her and that why she doesnt have enemies (that and her enemies either target other people or show in other titles) and she was chocking people like douchebags like Constatine. But other than that. She seems caring for other people like she became protective of others teammates when she learn that Batman had plans (mainly their weakness) to take down JL. Even thought that she has relationship with Superman, she still cares about Steve Trevor like asking if he ok or help anyone that needs help.