I would like to say the compete absence of Steve Trevor, but we weren't so lucky

Sorry, absolutely nothing in your list. I would have liked him to keep some of the horror vibe to her storytelling, with different takes on Greek monsters and demons, but that's about it. Everything else is lame. Well actually maybe Zola. She could be a cool extra girlfriend to WW. That's it. God mode, bracelets housing swords, the god awful version of the greek pantheon (no pun intended), raping amazons, God of war, god mode, all that stuff sucked and was like the story or powers of another hero, not wonder woman. I do fear Rucka reaction to all this by going so far in the other side is a bit slow paced at the moment. I'd like more action and more edge in his story like when he wrote WW before , while still staying true to her story.

Zeus as Diana father was the best take of the run and it should stay as such, for her to be more legit with all her powers and this give her more value

Nothing. Everything in that list ranges from meh/unnecessary to stupid/awful. Azzarello needs to go, beginning with the idiotic Zeus origin.

Not Wonder Woman.

You all know nobody hates that run like I did, but I still think much could be done with the weird gods. The best should stay...Strife, Hades, Apollo, Artemis, Milan, Lennox, Sirracca, Hera and Hephaestus. The worst should go...Azz Ares, Peach Tree Demeter, Big Bird Athena, Chicken Foot Hermes and Mutant Swamp Frog Poseidon. The ones that stay shouldn't appear for at least 20 issues as a palette cleanser, they can't be Wonder Woman's siblings and they can't be the main dish like they were before, but only a rarely used seasoning, like saffron.

We've been down this road umpteen times, the new writer wipes out everything the old writer did and we go back to square one. That's not how you do world building. Sure there are other forgotten characters I'd like to see more. Chiron, Ferdinand, Devastation, Alkyone, Rebecca, Nubia, Hessia, Veronica Cale, Queen Clea, etc. but you have to start somewhere and what's most recent is the best remembered and most impactful.

But under no circumstances should Zola or her damn baby ever appear in a Wonder Woman comic again. That goes for First Born and Lying Blonde Hippolyta too.

I did really like how Azzarello introduced Zeus being Wonder Woman's father, WW #3 where that backstory came up sold me on Azzarello's WW run. However, with the direction Rucka appears to be going, I won't strongly oppose it being retconned back to the clay origin since that is a good origin too. I would like the First Born to come back, he was a formidable Doomsday style villain for Wonder Woman, London being Wonder Woman's home city was also a breath of fresh air as it put a major DC hero in a non-fiction city outside of the US. WW being the God of War could have been handled potentially well instead of being drastically altered to Diana suddenly not being the God of War. And God Mode was cool.

I like the idea of Zeus as her father and think the gods should play a prominent role in her stories / background. The amazons originate from Ancient Greece and it's not like ancient gods from mythology is anything unusual. I don't particularly like her as the God of War though. I think it makes what she accomplishes more special if she is not. I also like the idea of living in London. She can hang out with Constantine at the local pub on her day off :)

I liked that run.azz's run only(35 issues) not the follow up run,that was shitty. I still don't want to see zola ,baby zues or that dude with the flies.

Strife, Cassandra and the First Born; Chiang's designs - Zeus, Hera, Apollo, Artemis, Ares and Hermes (Athena, Hades and Poseidon were done by Tony Akins); the Less-Than-A-Man as the head chef in Olympus a.k.a Ferdinand - no private chef for Wonder Woman; Zola reimagined as one of the Holiday Girls whom Diana encouraged to go to college; and God-Mode before she harnessed it, beyond the point of no-return she can't revert to normal and goes irretrievably berserk hence she doesn't use it very often.

I think Cassandra has a lot of potential as a character. Also thought giving the Bracelets an interesting alternative function or two was cool, holding her power in check and housing weapons was a thoughtful addition IMO but by no means a critical piece of the story. I liked god-mode in concept, but wish it had been used more effectively. As it is Soule did more with it and IMO failed to make it interesting. I'd like to see Rucka explore what Azzarello first showed us with it which was how hard it was for her to control the power and that there were negative consequences to using it and that more power wasn't always the solution to the problem. I think Soule got wrapped up in making her stronger and sort of ignored the rest.

Everything minus Cassandra the Mad and Zola, and I'm good.

Because flight, super strength, and enhanced speed/reflexes are completely unique to Wonder Woman?

Just curious why you don't like the idea of the First Born?

I liked how he kept evolving, but otherwise he wasn't compelling. He was just a big brutish bad guy like Genocide or Doomsday. I need more depth and less tricks like the cannibalism and what not. That hasn't been scary since Hannibal Lechter.

London

God Mode

Orion

First Born

God Mode

Bracelet housing weapons

The gods

If you can't tell I'm a fan of the New 52 run.

Absolutely nothing. They should retroactively make his run some alternate universe one shot that they release in an omnibus and after that never touch it again.

Zeus as Diana's father

If a god was her father it shouldn't have been Zeus. That's just a personal preference.

The gods (all or nothing - Strife, Hera, Apollo, Ares, Hades, Hephaetus, etc.)

I regret my vote. I chose keep but come to think of it I would not keep it in the way Azz did them. I'm not talking about looks. I'm talking about them not really coming off as gods.

Cassandra the Mad

meh

The sailor killing, baby trading Amazons

no comment

Orion

No

Zola

No

London as Wonder Woman's home city

no She's suppose to be the ambassador for the Amazons. She should be close to the UN.

WW as God of War

Hell no. Should never have happened.

The bracelets housing her weapons

maybe

God Mode

No. Keep the DBZ with DBZ

God Mode because it looked really spectacular

I didn't realize so many people disliked Azzarellos take on WW. I disagreed with many elements but dam.

Actually many people liked Azz's run. Sure it had problems but it's mostly certain vocal groups that hate it. Making it seem more than it is.

Not that I blame them. Whether or not you agree that changes were bad, good it's has differences enough that some can look at it and say that's not WW's universe.

@dernman: I mean I can understand and people have opinions. Whether a vocal minority or not its good to have some insight.

There's only one group that hates it, they're called Wonder Woman fans. For every new reader Azz brought to the title, he drove a long term reader away. We were vocal in our dislike of the run, but weren't the minority. That's why we got Rucka on Rebirth. After years of Dan Didio trying to monkey with Wonder Woman in his misguided attempt to fix her, he finally gave up and rehired Rucka.

That's not true in any true sense. There are many Wonder Woman fans that liked the run. Nor is there any logical bases to saying for any one he brought in he drove away. You're basing both those things on your own nonobjective emotional and personal feelings about WW. I can understand you not liking it but you don't have to go there. Weren't the minority? How so? What are you basing that on? Sales don't reflect that. Non politically driven critics generally didn't reflect that. Heck the majority of people I've seen talk about it were mostly positive. The detractors were fewer just louder. You got Rucka because not only was DC overhauling most everything for Rebirth but because Rucka wanted the job. Despite what you're trying to imply it was never about any perceived problem with Wonder Woman because DC was in favor of Wonder Woman until Azzarello left and it was taken over by the Finches.

Trying to "improve" or "update" Wonder Woman isn't misguided. Like every character there are things that it can be done. Hell just ask Batman when he went through his period years ago. The problem was in some of the choices they made and how far they went. Some changes worked out and many didn't. They could have made different ones or changed how far they went and things could have been different.

No, I'm basing my statement on the sales numbers that remained the same though he supposedly brought in so many new readers. At the start of the New 52 Azz sold well, by halfway through the numbers had settled back to their regular levels after the departure of long term readers. Azzarello swapped one group of fans for another. Now that Rucka is back as well as those long term readers and new fans the book is selling twice as much. #Facts

As for Rucka wanting the job, that's just not true. DC went to him and after apologies and assurances, gave him the authority to remake Wonder Woman however he saw fit. Dan Didio knew he was wrong for firing Rucka in the first place, while in the middle of a story and his numbers were climbing, then stealing his Amazons Attack idea and having it re-written with disastrous results. Didio knew this because ultimately none of his ideas worked, not Amazons Attack, not the Odyssey and not Azzarello.

That's just reasoning with lots of assumptions. We don't know how many actual new readers came. For all we know that's just PR talk and the readership didn't actually change.. Not to mention many of them could have been returning readers. More assumptions. You don't know who left for all we know it could have been these so called new readers who left. Besides it's not like most every comic book number ones start out with high numbers and go down to a more average set. No different than any other times. We don't know anything about swapping about either writers. #learn what a fact actually is

You fail you're own argument and actually support mine. You implied that they changed Wonder Woman because there was a problem when in fact it was because Rucka wanted to make the changes. Which is what my point was. Did you see what you said there in you next sentence? You said could. Could is not IS which isn't a fact.. You undermine your own argument yet again. Another thing. DC fires and rehires people all the time. Rehiring a writer on something like a comic where the writers always change frequently to change direction and back again doesn't mean it's them admitting it was a mistake to fire them in the first place in any sense. That's just another assumption on your part basses on your feels because it makes you feel better about your rhetoric that you've built up. RIght because AZZ didn't work despite only his haters saying so and everyone else saying something else.

For frack sake my first post admitted I can understand why people are upset with AZZ but still you find some way to get triggered anyway.

Do you actually have an argument, point that isn't based off of non objective emotion or you just going to keep doubling down? I wouldn't be losing interest in reading what you say or continuing.

Your interest level should interest me why? I couldn't care less. You're misinterpreting my response. Whether that's on purpose, or because of your inability to grasp it, I don't know, the reason why is irrelevant.

The facts are the sales numbers, you can't argue with them.

Also there's a Rucka interview on the forum I posted that you really should take a listen to before attempting to couch my assertions as assumptions. He lays out the circumstances of his return quite clearly. If you actually did some research instead of jumping to conclusions you'd realize just how wrong you are.

@scorpio_cassadine: If you're going to reply to someone at least tag them. It could give someone a cowardly impression of you. Not that I'm accusing you. It could be a mistake.

Your interest level should interest me why? I couldn't care less.

Sure you don't. I mean why would you start a conversation with me unless you didn't care about what I say.

You're misinterpreting my response. Whether that's on purpose, or because of your inability to grasp it, I don't know, the reason why is irrelevant.

Please tell me what I misinterpreted because from what I'm seeing is you made a bunch of bull comments, tried to pass them off as "facts" and got called off on it. I'm psative any other objective person would be seeing that also.

The facts are the sales numbers, you can't argue with them.

No but you can argue the reason for the sales numbers. Like a company wide reinterest in DC because of Rebirth from people who left DC over the 52 as a whole. Just one alternative reason off the top of my head. THis points to another assumption you made. I wont fault you for this one because many fans think they know what goes on behind the scenes when they really don't. Unless you're in the business you really are ignorant of many things and can only assume. THat's not bad unless you refuse to acknowledge it and keep insisting you know the facts. Truth be told there are even some in the business that don't know what they're talking about because they don't consider or have all the angles.

Also there's a Rucka interview on the forum I posted that you really should take a listen to before attempting to couch my assertions as assumptions.

He lays out the circumstances of his return quite clearly.

As I pointed out my point still stands unless you missed the point I was making. Which is that it changed because of Rucka's wants and not because of some problem with Azzerello's WW.

If you actually did some research instead of jumping to conclusions you'd realize just how wrong you are.

Right the person who's done nothing but make assumptions and jump to conclusions is going to try and flip it to save face. Do you really expect anyone to buy that?

Also do you really want to trust Rucka's word as fact on anything considering his practices in the past and his reputation? The man might write some ok stories but the man is twisted in the head concerning many issues. You have to take everything he says with a grain of salt.

What about his practices and reputation? I've heard nothing but good things about the guy. He's no Frank Miller.

1. She had other powers in Perez and skills and they were cool. Animal Empathy, Wisdom, the way she was a great diplomat and warrior strategist. She was bad ass and it was kind of unique the whole combination.

2. Because First Born sucked. The name sucked, the story sucked, his character sucked. He was a dumb character.

That's Bernman's problem with Rucka, he's no Frank Miller.

@agent41 said:

@scorpio_cassadine: @dernman: @agent_z: New 52 in general divided fans. Azz WW just happened to be one of the most talked about cases. The run is over now, New 52 is stepping aside and Rebirth is taking its place. The debate about who is a real fan or who isn't is just silly. Some old fans liked it and some didn't. It's time we all let go all the negativity.

Thank you!! Finally some sense up in here.

@agent41: Some times that happens to some people. THere is a thread in the Bug Forum. Post there saying you're having that problem.

@jphulk26: Most modern adaptions place her as being a great strategist, leader, and diplomat to the world. However, these are also not unique to Wonder Woman, as Aquaman has many of the same skills.

There was even a member of Aquamans' team, The Others, who had a telepathic link with animals much like Aquaman does with sea creatures.

The bracelets housing weapons. And God Mode. I would find it cool if maybe they could get rid of the Gauntlets of Atlas and just do that.

xoxo, -Saint Sophie

@dernman: Cowardly impression? Who would be scared of you? Not in person, not on the internet and not in your wildest fantasy would I ever be afraid of you. I was Uptown all night on some real ish protesting, staring down hundreds of cops in riot gear. You're nothing to me.

What should Diana keep from Azzarello's run? Nothing. Absolutely nothing...

Well this thread turned into a sour sh*tstorm.

The two things I wouldn't keep:

• Raiding Amazons, as much as I understand and have defended Azzarello for going down that path... I'd rather they come up with some other way the Amazons keep their numbers up.
• Diana as GoW, I'd rather have Ares be that guy, especially since no one appears to be able to do anything with Diana being GoW than occasionally turn her into a raging simpleton.

• Couldn't they keep it but just say it was a different group of Amazons? IIRC both in mythology and comic where Hippolyta had a sister who was an Amazonian leader? It would be great if they used that as the hard line extremist version that most people see Amazons in the myths. They could be great antagonists for the Wonder Woman's Amazons.
• Diana should never have been god of war. I'm against her character being a god at all but it there was one god she shouldn't be it would be Ares. It's against her character. I realize there is a connection between the Amazons and Ares in myth but it's still unWonder Woman.

@dernman: @scorpio_cassadine: Hello.

First, I had to delete a lot of both your guys posts. You should both know that the site language rules, and how that includes quoting words that aren't allowed either. I mean some of the Navy Seals Marine meme quote had certain words censored, but there were also a lot that weren't. Hence needs to be filtered even more and or not quoted.

Next, I don't understand how you guys ended up squabbling. If you can't interact with each other with some small measure of patience and goodwill, its probably better to not get entangled. I really hope I wouldn't have to explain how one can come off as antagonistic to another or how even if someone seems antagonistic, its also okay to still extend good will to them and resolve an issue before it begins, but if either of you have questions or worries we can talk about them, that or anything else in PM. Just send one to me. Otherwise try not to derail this thread further please.

Thank you and take care.

@sc: My bad. I looked at it really quickly and censored the f words found. I should have examined it closer to see if there were things I missed.

• They could yes, and Azzarello didn't actually invent DC Amazons doing this... they were just the Bana-Mighdall when Perez created the idea.
• I think it could have worked tbh, but it would require DC's writers and editors seeing the 'God of War' mantle as being more complex than simply the patron deity of fighting and soldiers... but then again, any of that would perhaps need DC to realize the complexity of the Olympian gods.