@gokuwarrior: Just Ignore the troll ok?My thread become DBZ/marvel vs DC thread

@powerwoman said:

Chill.

Actually this isn't true. The rating system gives a GENERAL idea of a characters strength level. It was never meant to be exact. That's why it stops at 100 although pretty much all class 100 characters can left well over 100 tons. I do think how ever the system does give some incite into how strong characters are because RARELY do characters exceed those limitations. I've read quite a bit of Ms.Marvel material, rarely is she shown lifting anything and when she does it's something that as you said even Spider-Man could lift. You said Ms.Marvel has lifted things beyond her supposed strength class which is 75 tons, what would those things be? Aside from the plane feat you spoke about? Also what is the context of the plane feat? What issue # does this happen in. Carol's strength has been shown to vary with absorption of energy sources, did that play a part?

@vance_astro: Sorry,but he was troll,he destroy my thread become DBZ/marvel vs DC,can you or someone just knock out him in my thread?thanks

@powerwoman said:

I can ask him to say on topic. If he doesn't then he will be asked to leave the thread.

the sad part is that he is arguing about the topic of this thread because dshipp17 thinks that superman and wonder woman power level is the same level that the thing and ms marvel.

@dshipp17: If you've actually been reading this thread, you'd see that Wonder Woman is easily a top tier powerhouse on a level with Superman, Martian Manhunter, Captain Marvel amongst other of DC's top powerhouses. Why you're continuing this ignorant case I have no idea.

I would say close to Superman, but just throwing it out there and it's kinda off-topic but Mera's said to be to be about as strong as Wonder Woman in the New 52 series during Throne of Atlantis...just saying. I mite be wrong. But again just throwing it out there. Mite not be strength wise, but as in power. Pretty much meaning, her hydrokinesis is as strong as Wonder Woman's strength. I'm pretty sure they were talking about strength level though.

@raw_material: Mera？Where said she was strong as wonder woman,scan?

@raw_material: In fact,if only check New 52 wonder woman herself comic book,she isnt stronger than spider man...though i dont know how powerful is DC GODS....New 52 wonder woman most powerful feats is from JL not herself comic book..

She has no need to carry trucks for to show strength, people uses to see her in that way. She could just be stronger as an average woman, and still being a superheroíne. She could starts using charm, feminine skills, even magic powers instead to grind villains by bare hands. Any of that options was in the poll, so i just picked normal strength with more skills.

@danieles: she has always had super powers,she will never be a peak human level character.

I any text, reference or historical accuracy says that greek's amazons has super human strength, actually , Achilles defeated the Amazon Queen so easily. Wonder woman's super strength its just a construct, a feminist one actually. Also , superpowers doesnt always means super strength, there is so many ways of superpowers. Actually , what im asking for its for feminine superpowers.

@danieles: Yeah,that was a good point,when superman billions and billions and billons time stronger than other hero, they are isnt need super-strength,right?

give them other power is judicious！

@danieles: wonder woman has always had super strength,super speed and super durability,thast will never change.

@gokuwarrior: Eh.....but if dc really belive superman is billions and billions time stronger than her,they are could be do this again,you know

@powerwoman: DC doesn't believe that he is billions of times more powerful than her,and that wouldn' matter anyway,characters like ms marvel are way,way weaker than thor,sentrey,gladiator,but you don't see marvel taking away her powers,taking away wonder woman's powers didn't work,DC won't make that mistake again.

as for now we need to display again the usual feats she used to do,strength feats above the 100 tons,great super speed feats,great combat speed feats and great durability,start to see her again doing her usual feats from before is the best way to start,that's all we need for now.

@gokuwarrior: For me...that's isnt enough....When Superman is not fanwanking the weight of the Earth for 5 days straight, then we can take a conversation about that far enough,but for now?

he made the entire Earth shake by punching H'el.he can as fast as light of speed(not sure how can be faster than light,bends time and space?eh...)lift earth five days.....

@powerwoman: i know but we should start somewhere,she is not doing the usual feats she used to,i want to see her doing them at least,it's a start.

@gokuwarrior: Yeah...hope so

@vance_astro: dshipp17 was talking about 90s rogue,he said that rogue with ms marverl powers lift a plane,but rogue with classic ms marvel powers was only a 50 toner so it must have been a very small plane.

just because you say so? I suggest ya to start to think by your own, to not follow thw dogma. P.S. In Dragon Ball, ChiChi was a strong woman, but she wasnt evn close to Goku, but she showed a great housewife skills.

@danieles: why do you bring db name here?,DC already tried to take away her powers and sales dropped because of that and they get accused of being sexist for taking away the powers of the most iconic and recognized female comic character in the whole world,they don't want to experience that again.

marston(wonder woman's creator)thought about her as a beautiful and smart woman with all the power of superman and a comppasionate and kind heart,his idea of amazons was that they could achieve great power because of the strength of the spirit and the mind,taking special training to reach higher and higher capabilities.

I bring DB here because you are the Goku Warrior LOL, but you serevs me as an example of the double standards that i were talking about, because if your role model are Goku, why i didnt hear you complaining about that Goku is a sexist character because he has a traditional family/life?; you said: "why do you bring db name here?,DC already tried to take away her powers and sales dropped because of that and they get accused of being sexist for taking away the powers of the most iconic and recognized female comic character in the whole world,they don't want to experience that again". That happened in 1968, in the beginning of the second wave of feminism, i thinks that we must get over it, because, we are not the same as before. What you're implying its that modern fans will rejects a different Wonder Woman, because in the 60's was rejected. We're not sure about that yet. "the most iconic and recognized female comic character", she may has a recognizable icon in the comic world, but she¡s not a female, she is just superman with breasts.

@danieles: goku is sexist because he has a traditional family life?,what the hell are you talking about?,that doesn't make sense,dbz is all about the figths,nobody cares about any other stuff in a shonen manga,it's all about the action and the messeage that with training and dedication you can keep getting better.

someone who doesn't know shit about the wonder woman character shouldn't complain,she is not superman with breasts,you are just the typical person who doesn't like powerful females,you want wonder woman to be an street level character,the fact you think she is a superman clone proves you know nothing about her,did you know that back in the day when superman and wonder woman appeared she was much more powerful than superman?,she was moving planets and stars while he was moving trucks and tanks,did you know that?,did you know that he is an alien from another planet and she is an amazom princess that the gods brought to life from a clay figure?;did you know that superman is the typical brawler while she is a trained fighter?,did you know that superman's powers get boost by the sun while her powers are divine?,did you know he throws random punches and she uses skills,tactics and weapons?,did you know that superman use to see only the good in the world but she is objective and sees both sides?,did you know all that?,of course not,because you have already stated that you never paid atention to her character before so what do you know about her character,her origins,her personality,what she stands for,you know nothing,so don't try to talk like if you have any idea of what she should be.

@gokuwarrior: Well said.

@lilben42: thank you.

@vance_astro: 90s Rogue lifted an airplane in X-Men TAS in Sanctuary:

http://marvel.com/videos/watch/917/x-men_1992_-_season_2_episode_22

Real talk, from your avatar and some of your comments about DBZ, I get the impression that you were once a fan but became disgruntled because important people associated with the DBZ franchised turned you down for a gig or something. You know facts about DBZ but continue to grossly understate their characters, but in a fashion of a disgruntled person; that's what you're coming across to me as. The Saiyans have feats very similar to the Kryptonians; that means that Normal Vegeta can do pretty much the same thing that Superman can do; but, once Vegeta becomes Super Saiyan, he might as well be Superman squared in terms of power level; therefore, there's no logical way Superman can be better than Super Vegeta because Normal Vegeta cannot be better than Super Vegeta or it makes no sense to go Super Saiyan mode; it was this form that was required for him to best Frieza (and actually, this is probably the DBZ Saga that people should see to understand how Saiyans are the equivalent of Kyptonians, rather than fast forwarding to the Cell Saga, which is where I start my discussion, but a serious DBZ following would know that; I believe you were a serious DBZ follower at one point but have since become disgruntled for some reason), but where he couldn't compete with Android 18; thus, there is no logical way for Superman and Wonder Woman to own Android 18, as they simple are not in her class; Android 18's power level is probably Superman cubed or by a power factor of 3. Basically, what you're doing is taking the Doomsday vs Superman fight out of context and saying that Spider-Man could own Superman because he was owned by Doomsday; Doomsday won and didn't have to lift a pyramid, because it's implied he could at least perform that feat in defeating Superman in a fight. You know I knew what you were doing but others might not have known. If Superman was struggling with that Daily Planet Globe in the matter he was, as depicted by the scans I presented, there's no logical way to believe that that planet moving panel could be in context with the rest or vast bulk of the other material presented, in relation to Superman, since the COIE event. However, it's this out context panel that reviewers mistakenly use about Superman in a theoretical Superman vs Goku fight, where Goku achieves his maximum of Super Saiyan 3 or 4, which should be Superman by a power factor of 5; makes no logical sense.

@dshipp17: look i'm tired of this,i'm a DBZ fan but i know the facts,i'm not going around doing unsubstantiated estimates about the level of strength of DBZ characters compared to superman and wonder woman when DBZ characters like 18 never lifted anything impressive in her whole career,DBZ characters are about energy power not physical power because their most powerful attacks are based on ki energy not raw strength,they are very strong yes but not superman or wonder woman strong(physically),strength wise superman and wonder woman have much better feats than 18(REGULARLY)and they have enough speed and durability to fight her,but i don't care about this because this is not about DBZ vs superman/wonder woman and i never talked about a fight between these characters,you were the one that started making comparisons that have nothing to do with this topic,so leave it right there for once and for all.

second,doesn't matter if superman and wonder woman are on par with super vegeta or not,superman and wonder woman are much stronger than ms marvel,i will tell you why again,but first,the scan from rogue is from an animated series,animated series aren't cannon,in the comics,90s rogue was only a 50 toner,you can find scans of her training with a weight machine that had a top weight of 50 tons and she says that after 15 minutes trainig with it she starts to feel tired,meaning that 50 tons is her max,she never lifted a plane in the comics.

current ms marvel is a 75 toner,guess what?,small plane ways about 0.75 tons,so it would take her all to lift the smallest plane,but superman and wonder woman are regularly lifting planes that weight 485 tons and above and they lift them with COMPLETE EASE,so ms marvel's strength is nowhere near their strength level;and as you can see here,everyone has said to you the same thing,so obiously you are the only one here that doesn't know the true power level of these characters if you think they are in the same league strength wise,you may think their levels are almost the same but they are not,and all the people here that know these characters have agreed with me,nobody has agreed with you all of them have told you that superman and wonder woman usual strength showings are way above ms marvel,even vence_astro has told you that ms marvel's strength is nowhere near superman and wonder woman level,and vence_astro is a huge ms marvel fan and so am i,but we are objective,so please get your facts right.

@dshipp17: Can you just shut up get out this thread?

Why, because what you say makes no sense to anyone except Gokuwarrior? What you say makes no sense; you can't get past a single panel. I can comment as much as I feel the need. If you don't like it debate your position with me or find a thread where most of the people are talking nonsense like you; I probably don't visit those type of threads.

The DBZ cartoons substantiates everything I say about DBZ; are you skidzo or something? The characters don't need to be lifting objects when everything else demonstrates that the Saiyans have Kryptonian level of powers and other characters like Frieza, Android 18, Perfect Cell, and Kid Buu were stronger by the next power factor. The idea of DBZ seems to be getting knocked down, getting better, than getting a victory after a defeat. There are many other ways to demonstrate that a character is powerful without showing them lifting things, especially if the next level is Supoerman squared; the only way to show their power after that is the characters matching their strength as compared to each other in slug fests. In the Frieza saga, we have Frieza forming a crater while bashing Goku into the ground; that's clearly intended to demonstrate incredible strength; Marvel does this often with Hulk; Hulk doesn't need to be lifting anything for the reader to get the the picture that the Hulk is a powerhouse. Thus, because the DBZ characters don't need to be lifting anything to show their power, it's unnecessary to conclude that Android 18 is much more powerful; and I think this is also where you're hung up on when it comes to comparing Ms. Marvel with Wonder Woman; it's unnecessary to see Ms. Marvel constantly lifting things to tell that she can perform some of the strength feats of Wonder Woman. No serious DBZ follower would take your information and believe that, because they're never lifting anything, they're feeble in strength compared to Superman and Wonder Woman, well, at least not Asian followers of DBZ; maybe some westerners might try to latch onto that concept. We can surmise Android 18's durability as something greater that Vegeta's, where Vegeta's durability would be equivalent to a Kryptonian's durability; we couldn't determine Android 18's durability simply because she was easily defeated by a character that should have defeated her.

@dshipp17: you better go by the manga and not the anime,and in both version,super saiyans and 18 don't have strength feats like superman and wonder woman,superman and wonder woman are stronger and with their speed and durability feats they can fight 18 without a doubt,but i don't care if you don't agree because this is not the topic to talk about this,you are ruining the topic that "powerwoman" made by talking about things that have nothing to do with the topic,nobody here was saying if superman and wonder woman are on par with android 18 or not,so doesn't matter what you and me think because this topic is not about that,so stop talking about DBZ in this topic.

the point you first made was that superman and wonder woman are on par with ms marvel strength wise and that they should stay at that level,we already told you and proved to you that superman and wonder woman are way stronger than ms marvel,and the only who doesn't make sense is you because you talk about things that have nothing to do with the topic and then you claim things that aren't true,everyone here has told you that you are wrong by claiming that ms marvel is on par with superman and diana,nobody agrees with you because here everyone knows these characters and their usual showings,so everyone is aware that ms marvel's strength is nowhere near the level of superman and wonder woman,so now this debate should be over.

@dshipp17: THIS THREAD ISNT DBZ vs DC,if you like it just creater YOURSELF thread,this thread is talking about wonder woman need how strong,NOT BATTLE THREAD

you dont listen,so,yeah,Please get out my thread

No one has proven that Wonder Woman is way stronger than Ms. Marvel; they just stated their speculations that Wonder Woman is stronger; additionally, you're comparing apples to oranges if you're saying that calling Ms. Marvel a 50 tonner demonstrates that she's weaker than Wonder Woman, where Marvel hasn't rated Wonder Woman's strength in the same matter they rated Ms. Marvel; Marvel hasn't rated Wonder Woman.

The manner in which I introduced the DBZ characters made it on topic because the question is how strong is post crisis Wonder Woman, stated more accurately and you can't really say unless you introduce a comparison so that people can begin to form an opinion by visual aide. I'll stick with the anime and tv show concerning Android 18, because it introduces a consistency; inconsistencies create unnecessary disruptions.

@powerwoman: the funny thing is that everyone here has disagreed with him claiming that ms marvel is on par with superman and wopnder woman and that they should stay at that level,everyone proved him wrong.

@gokuwarrior: He was troll,need delete his posts and ID in comicvine

@dshipp17: the question is not about post crisis wonder woman,it's about new 52 wonder woman.

m,arvel hasn't rated wonder woman's strength because she is not a marvel character duh,i said 90s rogue was a 50 toner based on the fact that she trained with a weight machine of 50 tons and she starts to get tited after lifting 50 tons for 15 minutes,if she was stronger than that she wouldn't get tired after such a short period of time.

current ms marvel is a 75 toner and everyone states that because she has never ever lifted anything above that and she can't fight heavy hitters,everytime that ms marvel fought a character class +100,she was dominated,examples:her fight with wonder man,he is well above the 100 tons and he punched her through new york city,she was completely overpowered by him,her fight with sentrey,another character way above the 100 tons,she had to boost her strength by absorbing a nuke to be able to punch him when he was in a very weakened state,her fight with grey hulk,a 70 toner character,she was able to overpower him because she is 5 tons stronger but when he became the green hulk,she couldn't do anything,conclusion,ms marvel is a 75 toner,her strength level is nowhere near the level of wonder woman,wonder woman has much better showings regularly,that is a fact.

Pay attention, since the change over to the New 52 was not COIE type event, Wonder Woman is still post crisis Wonder Woman; placing New 52 there makes no difference.

Of course Marvel can't rate Wonder Woman, so all the more reason to say that you're comparing apples to oranges by trying to say that Wonder Woman is way stronger than Ms. Marvel; also, as I already said, simply because Ms. Marvel has not been shown to lift things that Wonder Woman has lifted doesn't prove your point; it simply means that Marvel has not shown her lifting the things Wonder Woman lifted because of the different approaches to story telling involving the two characters. Lots of people can have that opinion and I can keep mine as long as the evidence I need doesn't exist and cannot be provided,

@dshipp17: false,marvel rated ms marvel's strength in the 75 tons and DC rates wonder woman way above the 100 tons and the proof that wonder woman is way stronger than ms marvel exists,when has ms marvel been able to stand her ground against a 100 toner?,never,she always gets owned,wonder woman fights and defeats people in that range and above all the time,when has ms marvel lifted more than 75 tons without absorbing energy?,never,wonder woman lifts trains above the 100 tons,planes of 500 tons with ease and asteroids bigger than a city with ease.

It's not false; just something that doesn't jive with your wishes. How can they, if DC has no rating system? You simply want it to be that way; Ms. Marvel being over powered by a 100 tonner, as defined by Marvel, says nothing about how she compares to Wonder Woman; Marvel would need to rate Wonder Woman anyway, not DC, to not be comparing apples to oranges.

@dshipp17: false,why does marvel need to rate wonder woman's strength to know how ms marvel compares to wonder woman?,that's like saying that we don't know if wonder woman is stronger than spider-man because marvel hasn't rated wonder woman's strength,why would they?,she is not one of their characters,and they don't need to come out and say yes wonder woman is way stronger than ms marvel,we know that by seeing how ms marvel does against people way stronger than her and the fact that she has no feats above the 75 tons,when a character is superior you see it in the fight and then you have an idea of the power level of the characters that are fighting,the fact that ms marvel is always overpowered by 100 tonners means that she is not in that strength class while wonder woman fights and defeats characters in that class all the time and has feats in that class constantly,so wonder woman is way stronger than ms marvel,how can't you understand that?.

@vance_astro: Please,check it

Again, Wonder Woman's power level is really too inconsistent as compared to other published media (e.g. Justice League unlimited). Well, who has officially said Wonder Woman is above the 100 ton mark? Might as well dismissed those examples like you dismissed the cartoons from the comics. Superman is supposed to be slightly stronger than Wonder Woman and he was straining to lift the daily planet globe. It makes a difference because Marvel would have to display Wonder Woman lifting a train over 100 tons; by the way, a train is going to be much lighter that 100 tons usually. 1 ton is equal to 2500 pounds.

@dshipp17: marvel won't display wonder woman doing anything because she is not their character and she doesn't need to be to prove she is way stronger than ms marvel,cartoons and movies aren't cannon.

wonder woman's power level is not inconsistent,she is consistently lifting and doing things way above the 100 tons,ms marvel has never done that.

Ok, so grasp the concept of comparing apples to oranges; and she would need to prove that she's way stronger to support such a claim. Ms. Marvel can probably lift the things that Wonder Woman has consistently lifted post crisis, where the key term is consistently, meaning excluding all of the inconsistencies and anomalies; again, Superman struggle with the Daily Planet Globe and he's supposed to be a little stronger than Wonder Woman; if the other things do not stick to that as precedent than an inconsistency is created; if something is way out of line with that example, than it's an anomaly.

@dshipp17: superman has consistently lifted things way above the daily planet globe,so it's not an anomaly,it's just that you want superman and wonder woman to be weaker than your fav.

@dshipp17: Superman and Wonder Woman helped pull THE ENTIRE PLANET !!!!! I know you're just trolling but please...do better than the Daily Planet Globe.....

@gokuwarrior: Like I said, why do you even bother with him?

@ancient_0f_days: he will say that moving planet is an anomaly,i just want to ask you a favor,could you post for him some scans from superman in the new 52 lifting things way above the 100 tons with ease?,and some for pre 52 wonder woman?,with that we will end this debate forever.

@gokuwarrior: I thought you guys already posted some things before I got in here? anyway. I got something just for him....

@dshipp17: You like talking bout the daily planet globe huh.....

how bout that!!! or some of this....