@powerwoman: some people just can't get it.

I didn't say that the planes were anomalies, I specifically referenced the planet; by proxy, that would include the asteroids; I believe Ms. Marvel can lift planes too; it is very clearly implied that Ms. Marvel is far stronger than Spider-Man (e.g. most recently, see Ms. Marvel #1). I'm going to exclude the anomalies (and things that were retconned by the COIE event) and suggest that Wonder Woman will probably struggle to lift that 100000 ton object, also; again, you've not pointed to any examples where Ms. Marvel has failed to lift something that Wonder Woman could lift; however, even though there's a lack of evidence, I'll concede that Wonder Woman might be a little stronger than Ms. Marvel.

@dshipp17: lol,ms marvel has never ever lifted a plane,what makes you think she can?,WW lifts things above 100000 tons regularly,ms marvel?,without help she can't,she is a 75 toner and everyone knows that except the trolls that want to put her on a class she doesn't belong,i can't point ms marvel failing to lift things that WW was able to lift because ms marve has never ever lifted any of the things that WW has lifted.

Actually, Ms. Marvel has lifted a plane very easily before; it was in the form of 90s Rogue; Wonder Woman hasn't regularly lifted things at or above 100000 tons; that's merely your fantasy, where you can't separate your desire for what you want the character to do versus what she has done regularly. I disagree that simply because she hasn't been written that way so Ms. Marvel is unable to lift things that Wonder Woman has regularly lifted. By the way, above, I meant to reference Captain Marvel #1 instead of Ms. Marvel #1.

@dshipp17: lol,WW has lifted things way above 100 tons consistently,you are the only one who can't separete your desire for from reality,you want ms marvel to be on par with WW,she isn't,she hasn't the feats to prove it,sorry,i know it hurts you but that's the way it is.

THANK YOU USER "KNIGHTFALL25",did you hear him?,he also knows these characters and he knows ms marvel is nowhere near WW.

Dude Ms. Marvel isnt even close to WW. Wonder woman has the strength of the gods.

@knightfall225: thank you,let's see if he can see now that most people don't agree with him like he says.

@dshipp17: What are you debating?

@gokuwarrior: That plot is clearly not working out well these days. It's fatal.

We need a standardized way to approximate Superman's and Wonder Woman's power levels; writers should be held to established precedent about their power levels; anomalies should be recognized and excluded; Superman's and Wonder Woman's power levels are in the ballpark of The Thing's, Ms. Marvel, and 90s Rogue; Apocalypse is my favorite Marvel character; I like Galactus; DBZ likely has the strongest characters possibly across the board, but definitely compared to DC and Marvel; there's no good way to gauge the power levels of the DBZ characters, except to say that Saiyans are the equivalent of Krypronians; Android 18, Perfect Cell, and Kid Buu are the strongest DBZ characters and, by proxy, the strongest characters across the board.

@powerwoman: O.K. Those scans are from Golden age. Do you have the cover? She was release in 1941 right? Last time I check most comics were focused on the Nazis during that date. If memory serves me right it was only after SA that she apparently receive Godlike abilities.Well I could be wrong.

Anyways it's clearly of a different age now. Some or most readers might not take it to be that appealing anymore. That said she shouldn't be anywhere strong as SM. The WW in the solo issue's should be enough.

Well good day.

she shouldn't be as strong as superman?,then why she is always close to him?.

@dshipp17: superman and wonder woman are way more powerful than the thing and ms marvel and the writters have established that by putting superman and wonder woman usual feats way above the usual feats ftom the others.

DBZ characters aren't the most powerful characters on the board.

stop making stuff loebs and bryne fanboy,you had to be a fan of those mediocre writters.

It's the way DC has been writing her. I get the feeling every time I'm reading JL that they all wanted their characters to be like Superman. It's not working out well. If anything it would be rather easy for them to just tone her down to the current level of her solo issue's. That's just my opinion.

@the_titan_lord: But if superman billions and billions time stronger than her,why she still need super-strength power?she isnt need it

the writter of her current solo title gave her the ability to boost her power by taking off her bracelets and we dopn't know her limit on that mode,and the same writter said recently that superman is not stronger than her,so obiously he hasn't wriotten her full power yet.

@powerwoman: let's forget about planet feats for a while,what should always be respected is that she is a true powerhouse and she should keep having feats way above the level of characters like ms marvel like she always used to have,being way above the 100 tons limit, faster than half the speed of light and durable enough to take nukes and trade blows with bricks is the least she should always be,but never below that.

That's the problem. Their ideas well soon come in conflict. They'll change it on who's stronger. Eventually some will find both WW and SM written pretty stupid.

@the_titan_lord: If so,not only wonder woman need depowered,superman should be depowered too

@the_titan_lord: just because you say she shouldn't be written as being close to superman doesn't mean there is a problem,through the yearas she has consistently been written as being close to superman,why should it change?.

and another thing,one thing is that you don't want to see them moving planets,but other thing is that you think she should be a 25 toner and barely dodge arrows,that's not just toned her down a little,that's turing her into a street level chsracter,that's watering her down a lot.

What?

@powerwoman: Like I have said before. It's necessary that she be on that level to likable. DC shouldn't put too much concern on that matter they should keep her interesting not powerful. The solo issue's of her is more interesting than the JL issue's of her. She's not that overrated in the solo's. That's just my opinion.

@batman242: it's ridiculous right?,dshipp17 really thinks that the thing,90s rogue and ms marvel are on par with superman and wonder woman.

why do you think she is overrated?,just because she used to be very powerful able to fight powerhouses sher was overrated?,why shouldn't she be a powerhouse?.

in her current solo book she hasn't done anything that spider-man couldn't do yet and you should know she was never meant to be a spider-man level character,feats above the 100 tons,great speed feats and durbility feats aren't too much to ask and that's what most people expect from someone like wonder woman.

It should be change because it's not working out anymore for DC to keep writing them that way. These are new generations of readers. They don't buy to things like that anymore.

It's not about the strength level or the speed. It's about her being a badass. It's like for ex. Batman taking on SM or DS. The 25 tonner is just a suggestion cause I feel that writer might have a broader way of writing her stories like that.

@powerwoman: IMO they all need to simmer down.

@the_titan_lord: Ok...but DC just let superman lift earth five days this silly thing happen...

@the_titan_lord: lol are you kidding me,so wonder woman and superman should be around 25 tons and what about marvel bricks,hulk,thor,hercules,etc? .

don't be ridiculous,perez,ruka and simone wrotte her as a powerhouse too and her stories were interesting and she had very good sales,so power levels don't affect quality in the story if the writter is good,and no matter how much they could water her down,they will never writte her below the +100 ton class and hypersonic speed,they need at least one female brick with super speed and durability and wonder woman has always been the main one in DC.

Because I find on the JL to be too over powered.

It's a conflict DC has to resolve. Should she be written over the edge or just in the middle. They have to weigh if keeping her on SM's level is what the readers wants or what they need. Cause if they keep writing them that way they'll have a hard time making stories.

@powerwoman: They had have already made him a joke. WW shouldn't have the same faith. They really need to simmer down. Course that's just my thoughts.

@the_titan_lord: But the trouble was DC already LET superman REALLY did it,so,what's next?you cant pretend does not exist

@powerwoman: It depends entirely upon them. They can do that you know. If they choose to.

@dshipp17: stop posting scans that have nothing to do with the thread,everyone here already debunked your argument about ms marvel being on par with superman and wonder woman,lol,go and buy some loeb's work,the guy has had financial problems,nobody wants to read his stuff,you are among the 1% people that would consider his work on wonder woman something valid and with quality,99% of the people hate that shit,so bad written.

@gokuwarrior: I'm not suggesting that they make them all 25tonners. What I'm simply saying is just to simmer down.

it's not hard to writte a story with a powerhouse,if writting an story with a +100 toner,with super speed and durability was so hard,then why there are hundreds of characters with that power set?,thor,superman,silver surfer,gladiator,cap marvel,wonder woman,supergirl,powergirl,superboy,sentrey,manhunter,wonder man,captain atom,ETC,ETC,ETC?.

Oh, you haven't debunked anything despite multiple opportunities to do so; you only stated how you felt Wonder Woman was stronger than Ms. Marvel; like most of your stuff, that does not count. You haven't posted anything that Wonder Woman has lifted which Ms Marvel cannot lift, so you're only telling me how you feel about the subject; I'm happy to be able to know some aspects of your fascination with Wonder Woman and Superman; clearly, they are two of your favorite characters. Also, Messner-Loebs lasted on Wonder Woman for more than 3 years, longer (or has more published Wonder Woman issues) than just about any writer in the modern era, so his stuff cannot be considered junk; again, another opinion.

@dshipp17: lol ms marvel has never lifted anything like WW,massive plane with 30.000 pounds of water,asteroids,etc,etc,you posted ms marvel lifting a truck,lol,spiderman level feat.

you told me that most peope agree that ms marvel is on their level,well noone agrees,that's why i made a thread for you,here check it out.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/the-thing-ms-marvel-on-par-with-superman-and-wonde-1485037/

@dshipp17: SHUT THE HELL UP！！！！

F*ck you,get out my thread!!!!

O.K. lets differentiate them. Here's the huge difference Marvel does not make these guys too overrated on a daily basis. DC does it too often. Marvel powerhouses are not that hard to work with they don't usually have nano sec. reaction on a daily basis only to be hit by average guys. Sometimes you have these kind of thinking when your reading comics. If it's really not that hard to write. Why did DC abruptly have a sudden reboot? If you read both of them(DC and Marvel) you'll these kind of difference's.

@dshipp17Why in the world is this debate happening in the first place? There is no way Ms. Marvel is even close to Wonder Woman in strength, speed, or durability. I think anyone would agree with me. Ms. Marvel is a 50 tonner. The official Marvel ratings has her with a 5/7 strength rating. That is 25-75 tons. Never doubt Marvel's official ratings, they made the character.

Meanwhile, Wonder Woman is beyond 100 tons and is able to compete against Superman. She is literally as strong as the Earth. Stronger than Hercules. She is able to defeat Supergirl and Power Girl. She has been able to go toe to toe with Captain Marvel. She lifts in the megaton range and can pull 1/3 of the Earth

@the_titan_lord: please thor and many other bricks with super speed in marvel have super reaction speed and yet they get tagged by slowerr opponents sometimes,it's called bad writtin,you know that characters with super speed should never be hit by characters that are slolwer or don't even have super speed at all(unless they hold back or a good exoplanation that says the character was weakened),but sometimes it happens without good explanations or any explanation at all,and that's when a writter is lazy and put peole in different leagues to fight one another instead of making the characters fight people in their league,they need to water them down when they are doing a mismatch,to give the weak link a chance,it should never happen but when it happens,well there you see how some writters aren't profecionals,they should always remember the standards and power set,and know that speeder getting taged by slow people and super durable characters getting ko by street lever characters don't make sense at all,with a better brain they would have this in mind and don't do this kind of mistakes.

But that doesn't prove anything as I rebutted you earlier; simply because Ms. Marvel has never been shown lifting an airplane with water on board does not automatically equate to her being unable to perform the feat; it simply means that a writer has never considered depicting her as such, likely because of the tone of the story; now, if Marvel comes out and says that she cannot lift an airplane or a writer comes along and demonstrates that she cannot lift an airplane with water on board, than we have something there; asteroids are not worth a mention because it's an anomaly; that point is clearly invalid.

can you respond to the user dshiopp17 directly?,otherwise he won't believe us and will keep saying things that are wrong.

@dshipp17: ms marvel has never performed feats in WW's class because she can't,ms marvel has never and i mean never ever performed feats in the 100 ton range,let alone performing feats like WW,and if you talk about writters establishing the capabilities of a character,writters have written WW lifting buildings and asteroids,why we shouln't think she can when she has done it many times?,she has done it in multiple occasions.

and The official Marvel ratings has ms marvel with a 5/7 strength rating. That is 25-75 tons. Never doubt Marvel's official ratings, they made the character,an info from a good user of the site.

@gokuwarrior: They have. But how often do you see them do nano sec reaction on a scale of 1-10 and how often do DC show these things to theirs? The fact is Marvel writers don't do this to often the way DC does. It gives the readers a surprise when they do. They have a solid base to start. While their are some low showings in these characters(Marvel's) most of the time people don't seem to be bothered too much with it.

Go look at her respect thread. No way in hell is Danvers stronger. @dshipp17, you wanna look at this thread? http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/the-thing-ms-marvel-on-par-with-superman-and-wonde-1485037/ see how many disagree with you

Go ahead at look at their profiles here on comic vine. Ms. Marvel's not even as strong as The Thing. She was only class 100 as Binary. Wonder Woman was always 100+ class.

Those ratings are meaningless because they rarely mesh with the material in published history. Ms. Marvel has lifted or handled things well outside that range so the rating is bogus; it apparently was a rudimentary attempt by Marvel to give defined meaning to their character's power levels to make a point that some characters are stronger than others; DC has avoided doing such; thus, DC has taken advantage of undefined power levels to arbitrarily display power levels for their characters, as compared to Marvel's more consistent portrayal of power levels. Your suggestions about Wonder Woman does not mesh with the published history of Wonder Woman and Superman since the COIE event; I'd thought you'd come to your senses and decided to separate reality from your desired way seeing Wonder Woman depicted; many people disagree with your opinion that Wonder Woman has not performed impressive power feats in her New 52 solo book, so that should tell you something right there; again, I'm not debating you with the assumption that I agree with your impressions of the New 52 solo book, because I believe she's performed impressive feats; I'm debating the facts considering the vast bulk of published history; actually, I'll admit that I'm on those Superman panels that I presented, because Superman is a bit stronger (e.g. again, go back to the For the Man Who Has Everything JL episode); Wonder Woman's material is clearly very inconsistent in comparison to Superman's published material, so I cannot reliably cited back to it.

@dshipp17: since COIE,WW and superman have performed countless of feats way above ms marvel level,ms marvel has never done anything above the 75 ton range,and she doesn't even fight heavy hitters most of the time,so get your facts right.

and many people disagree with you saying that ms marvel is on par with WW,and WW isn't inconsistent,she is doing feats comparable to superman 75% of the time,pre 52 superman and WW usual showings put to shame everything that ms marvel has ever done and if you look at the fights between ms marvel and superman and ms marvel and WW here on the vine or any other forum on the internet,you'll see that 90% of the people agree that ms marvel is nowhere near WW and superman level.