Watchmen
Team » Watchmen appears in 44 issues.
Watchmen is a twelve-issue comic book limited series created by writer Alan Moore, artist Dave Gibbons, and colorist John Higgins. The grouping of heroes and villains contained in the work are not, in fact, named "The Watchmen", though they were at one point referred to as "Crimebusters". Rorschach, Nite Owl and Dr. Manhattan were the team's primary heroes.
Brutally Honest: Why A Watchmen Spin-Off Doesn't Matter
I hate the idea of DC selling the Watchmen out. That title was more than a comic series to me, it was a pretty deep commentary on how things would be if perhaps heroes were real, and how said heroes would impact life. It touched on some key issues, such as sexuality, American government, the rights of the American people, the Vietnam war. It was a serious work of art, and to watch DC make a mockery of it would just send them down another notch on my belt.
To be honest, the only character who could be great is Rorschach (making cameos as the deranged conspirator, or have his own monthly after making a mini-series to test the waters), and he is a clone of The Question who is also one of my fav characters. It COULD work.
Nothing will take away from the brilliance of the original story? Isn't that what people said about the star wars prequel trilogy before it was release? Now look at the original trilogy...
Later stories can indeed infect and damage prior masterpieces. George Lucas showed us that...and it spoke volumes with the SW community. More like created a giant divider between fans and a near riot. It's naive and selfish to think exploiting the Watchmen title can't significantly wound the original book, if you ask me. Just because you want to see more from these characters doesn't mean it's a good idea.
Watchmen was supposed to be something more. It was supposed to be above commercialism and shameless marketing. It was supposed to be about character, ethics, philosophy, and defining intellectual themes. When Moore refers to rape, running the brand through the corporate capitalism market machine again and again and again is indeed raping everything it originally stood for. Take the high ground and keep it classy. Leave Watchmen and it's caricatures be. Or is there no art that won't eventually be abused to make nothing more than the almighty dollar anymore?
In my humble opinion, I believe that it would be a horrible idea if they made "Watchmen 2". Frankly, I doubt that Watchmen 2 could live up to the original. A TV show could work if it were to just expand some parts of the book that didn't get much time/no time in the movie (i.e. "Under The Hood" which I thought was poorly done in the special features of the Watchmen DVD).
I especially don't want them in mainstream comics because that would just be a bad idea. Having Rorschach travel to another Earth just wouldn't fit with the Watchmen canon.
The main reason though is because Moore doesn't want it. If the creator doesn't want it, then it shouldn't be done.
"To be honest, no matter what DC does with the secondary Watchmen properties, no matter how many spin-offs, video games, cartoons they make using The Watchmen characters; nothing will take away from the brilliance of the original story."
And a beautiful woman is still beautiful after she's been raped. Doesn't make the rape itself OK.
"The art is pretty good in that. Watchmen should be re-written with the same story and all the same lines, but with updated artwork.
"
I really love how ridiculous all this "high horse" garbage is. If not mindlessly accepting whatever junk the mainstream comic industry throws at you like some shallow fanboy counts as being on a "high horse" then I'm going to go ahead and say I'll be riding into the sunset of my life on it. Don't get me wrong, I've obviously loved DC and Marvel all my life but I'm not a child and I know they do a lot of cheap tricks and superficial plots just to make a profit like any corporation. I also know they don't always treat their creators (you know, the guys who have the actual talent and ideas) very well just like many other companies mistreat or undervalue their own employees. Knowing all this does not make me feel better than anyone so much as it depresses me about the state of the world at large. If guys like me can't express how much that sucks every now and then we probably would go really insane. If you need to call us pretentious, hippie jerks in the face of that just to make yourself feel better about not being part of the club then that's just sad...
i think it was messed up for DC to make the film without Moore's go ahead. But now that the cats out, it doesnt really matter what happens, and i dont get why he's sooooo pissed and unruly. Bottom line is he knew the risks way back when he first gave Watchmen to DC. Once you sign the concept and characters over to the company, your signing away your right to be a little B!TC# about the things they do that you dont like. If he had invested the time and money into making and keeping it creator owned, than that would have nipped this all before it started. But this all started as Something for DC to use, originally with DC's obtained characters. So why the hell is he throwing a 20 year long fit about something that never belonged to him?
A part of me is with Alan but the comic fan in me wants to see more Rorschach. He would be bigger then Wolverine if done right.
" "To be honest, no matter what DC does with the secondary Watchmen properties, no matter how many spin-offs, video games, cartoons they make using The Watchmen characters; nothing will take away from the brilliance of the original story." And a beautiful woman is still beautiful after she's been raped. Doesn't make the rape itself OK. "Well said!
As much as I would love to see some back-story comics for the characters, or what not, I would be so afraid of what would be done with it. Who's hand's it would be put in to, and just how far it would be taken.
Though it's true that nothing they make now can diminish how good the original is, it can still turn people off of going back and reading the original if it's done badly. Just like I know some people who will have nothing at all to do with the series after they saw the movie. It doesn't matter how much you beg, or plead, or try to assure them that the book is nothing at all like the movie. They won't touch it out of pure fear and/or disgust.
Does it take away from the original story?
Of course!!!, just see what happened to the other heroes like Spider-man, rarely it takes the concept of responsibility, the never-ending-comics at the end became garbage, I don't want that to happen to Watchmen, or any other comic. Maybe the original story was awesome but at the end it would be forgotten.
I think it's best to leave it. DC should not do anything to the original Watchmen. You already got the whole story in 12 issues which is enough. You don't need sequels, spin-offs or prequels to continue the Watchmen franchise. DC, please don't exploit Watchmen. You already ruined Wonder Woman with her new costume and including two Batmen. Seriously, don't.
" "To be honest, no matter what DC does with the secondary Watchmen properties, no matter how many spin-offs, video games, cartoons they make using The Watchmen characters; nothing will take away from the brilliance of the original story." And a beautiful woman is still beautiful after she's been raped. Doesn't make the rape itself OK. "
Dude, that is some very wise stuff. Very brobdingnagian in its intelligence value.
But lilliputian in its persuasiveness, apparently. Guess we can't have it all." @mebaz said:
" "To be honest, no matter what DC does with the secondary Watchmen properties, no matter how many spin-offs, video games, cartoons they make using The Watchmen characters; nothing will take away from the brilliance of the original story." And a beautiful woman is still beautiful after she's been raped. Doesn't make the rape itself OK. "Dude, that is some very wise stuff. Very brobdingnagian in its intelligence value. "
Watchmen is already THE greatest comic book that has ever been written. Fifty years from now writers are still going to read it in order to learn how to make comic books. The reason that the story has so much emotional depth is because it actually has an ENDING. Spider-Man is going to swing around New York forever and whine about stuff. Superman is going to fly around and save kittens from trees forever. But Rorschach is dead. Doctor Manhattan left Earth to go be God. Ozymandias effectively turned Earth into a Utopia. Everything that happened in Watchmen actually mattered. It can't get retconned, it can't be re-interpreted. It's done.
We need to leave works of art like Watchmen alone. Treat other comic books like the Archie's Digest garbage they are. Don't mess with Watchmen.
I hate to be this guy...But there is already a Watchmen video game out titled "Watchmen: The End Is Nigh". It features Night Owl and Rorschach. I own this game for the 360. It is not a very good game. And if more video games featuring the The Watchmen characters and are similar to The End is Nigh, I have no desire to purchase these. (Oh yeah, keep it untouchable...Watchmen is in my opinion, the greatest piece of fiction ever)
All you against new WATCHMEN material.
1 thing to say read the BOYS and imaging a new WATCHMEN story penned by GARTH ENNIS.
That would blow away ALAN MOORE'S classic.
With what he did with PUNISHER hell A ROARSCH book done by ENNIS would be awesome.
I have really liked MOORE since the 70's his old 2000ad days. But I have come to realize that ALAN MOORE is pretty much CARTMAN from SOUTHPARK these days. having tantrums saying " screw you guys I'm going home"
You know what? If DC ever makes more publishing material with Watchmen? Who are we kidding? Supposing the creative team is good we would all be on the stores buying it, every single one of us don't lie.
Oh and to think that no one but Moore could keep the standard just isn't realistic.
Whether another writer could "keep the standard" is actually a loaded question posed by this article. Of course the original piece isn't tainted by derivative works. But I don't think that's Moore's point. He's not rejecting the Watchmen rights because DC has somehow ruined the work. He's rejecting it because there's no way he can do anything artistic with it now. It's been commercialized, and it can only ever exist in that vacuum. Anything he could ever do with Watchmen would have to exist beside the movies, action figures, coffee mugs, key chains, mouse pads, Happy Meal toys, etc. Just imagine what that must feel like for a creator who didn't write Watchmen (at least not primarily) because "hey man, Rorschach is friggin' bitchin', dude!" He wrote it from his heart and entrusted it to DC because they promised they understood the difference between Watchmen and most of their other publications. Now, 20+ years later, with new people at the helm, they obviously give a flying f--- about that promise. Instead, they continue to approach him with "deals" meant solely to fill their coffers. They don't give a sh-- about him. Why should he about their plans?" Oh and to think that no one but Moore could keep the standard just isn't realistic. "
" A part of me is with Alan but the comic fan in me wants to see more Rorschach. He would be bigger then Wolverine if done right. "Exactly.
While I'd like to see more of Watchmen, having it spread out to pollute other comics, such as mentioned Batman, would be bad. Watchmen exist in a world where no other DC comic character belongs.
Continuing the story would also make it weird. It's a product of the 80s. The idea was that some events happened prior to the 80s diverging the 'real' world from the world of The Watchmen just enough to mirror the real 80s. Moving that world 30 years forward to 2010 would either require a rewrite of the history of The Watchmen or make it diverge so much from the real world that it would be unrecognizable from our world.
Letting the story continue in the worlds of the 80s wouldn't fit either. Watchmen had such an impact just because it was mirroring that era so well.
Im all for leaving the Watchmen be...and i really respect the themes and issues raised in the graphic novel...BUT i hope i'm not alone when i say that i wouldnt mind seeing the characters doing their thing in the prime of their careers.
There could be some interesting espionage/politicical intrigue stories with THE COMEDIAN or some gritty murder mystery tales from Watchmen City with RORSCHACH. Maybe even some intergalactic fun with DR MANHATTAN.
I think Moore should chill out...all i ever hear from him is derogatory bile. Why is he so angry that he's inspired people to make use of characters which he killed off etc? If i was him i'd be honoured. Not sure about a second movie though...but one-shots for each character could be cool...especially with all the artistic talent about these days.
Something I don't understand, and maybe Babs can clarify for me, Is Alan Moore against video games or something. If somebody wanted to make a video game of something I made I would take that as a form of flattery. What GOOD reason could there be to want nothing to do with a video game? Especially if your not paying for its creation...
~Jynx
first off let me say i read watchmen long before the movie and enjoyed its awesomeness. and ill even say this: im not really an alan moore fan. HOLY COW START THE STONING!
really though, yeah i dont really like alan moore that much, but watchmen is stinkin' amazing. dont care what anyone says.
and lets be honest, maybe it would take away from the story, maybe it wouldnt. but even if alan more is a little conservative with all this stuff, i dont want him seeing his story get "raped" anymore, even if hes the only one who thinks so. if the guy feels like his storys been abused and he doesnt want to see it abused anymore, then let me have his way. he is the writer.
Agreed. i would say leave it alone unless you have an awesome idea. But really, even watchmen wasn't his alone, he wanted to use older characters that DC bought like Blue Beetle and Captain Atom, and in my opinion I love them in DC continuity and he would have ruined them. So they let him use characters that were parallels to their newly acquired cast, but separate. If he didn;t like that they owned tha charcaters why did he sign up for it in the first palce? He was paid to do it, luckily it turned out well. And DC has barely touched it in 20 years, one movie and one game thats it. So he has to get off his high horse." Alan Moore is so full of it. He created the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen out of other peoples ideas, but God forbid someone do the same with his creation. Granted if DC had the ability to make a Watchmen 2 they would and it most likely would not be as good as the original, but that doesn't mean it would be bad. What if someone took NiteOwl and made something great with it? Moore did wonderful things for comics twenty years ago. He helped to redefine it into an accepted art, but he needs to get over himself. Here's something to ponder, what if someone did write Watchmen 2 and it WAS better than the original? "
I love the smug quote up there:
"....really wanted to pursue some of DC’s key properties, by which I assume she probably meant WATCHMEN."; yeah properties plural you jerk! In his head: "Alan Moore, the man who single handedly made DC comics!..." why then hasn't he had bigger hits if he is suck a genius? League of Gentleman vol 1 was good, but even 2 and 3 of that were sub par... And the Watchmen movie (loved it by the way) was better than the League movie. Swamp thing is his other claim to fame right? C'mon...
I think this suggestion is wildly inappropriate and disrespectful to Mr. Moore. Watchmen functioning as a single unit and story was partially what helped amplify its greatness. The story, the moral, and the characters are all complete in one sealed package. If we start making spin-offs, it will distract from the purity of the original. Additionally, I think Sara and a lot of you are openly admitting that anything following the original would be sub-par in quality. Sara seems to think that won't affect the original, but regardless of its effects, if the quality of the following art will likely be bad, why even make it?
You say Rorschach and Batman team up? Are you kidding? Think for a second why that doesn't even mildly make sense. Sure they both wear masks, they both use grapple guns, and they're both generally scary as shit, but they work on completely different philosophies, they are completely different people, and they would not (even a little bit) get a long. Think what would happen when Rorschach starts breaking a bad guy's fingers or actually kills one of his adversaries. Batman would attack him and throw him in jail. They have antithetic ideas of justice which would cause the two to clash. Also, Rorschach dies pretty horribly at the end of the novel and the rest of his life is fairly well accounted for in the story. A little vacation to Gotham would just feel silly and weird (as would sending Batman into Rorschach's world).
Lastly, the impulse is avaricious and immature. The fact that this fantastic story leaves us wanting more is symbolic to its artistic greatness, not an excuse to make a bunch of sloppy follow ups and side-stories. We simply have to grow up and understand it's over. Bringing back characters or giving them second, third, or fourth chances on something as absurd as life itself is an annoyance for which the comic industry is yet to find an appropriate remedy. They couldn't keep Superman dead, they couldn't keep Batman dead, they couldn't even keep the X-men dead; Alan Moore, however, had no problem putting a comedian and a couple of others permanently to rest.
Perhaps we can all do the same with this debate and agree not to pervert a story that means to so much to so many readers and writers alike.
Well they already made a video-game, Watchmen the End is Nigh
I however hate the entire context of this "buy back your own creations and we wont screw up your artistic vision... as bad."
Quite frankly I never knew what the watchmen was, I've never read the original comic, I saw the movie tons of blue cock. Corny songs and love making sequences, other than that. I thought it was pretty epic, the girlfriend thought it was pretty epic.
Can I sit down and watch the watchmen again like I am amazed at what I am seeing? No it's boring after the 2nd time. The comic book is older than dirt, and just like that other artist the other day who ranted and raved about DC adhering to the perverted minds of 30-40 year olds instead of making comics for kids like they originally used to for role model purposes.
They will just exploit and rape out the characters to get more sales on books that probably need them. Great for the creative teams, but shitty for the original intellectual properties.
Mona Lisa was painted by one guy, we don't need another one. Lets just appreciate the original for what it was.
Now, I really dig the idea of any spinoff from Watchmen..but I would rather have it written by Alan Moore (or even just Dave Gibbons) than someone else!
the guy still got it!
Any fan of ABC comics here?
I'm a big fan of Tomorrow Stories, Tom Strong, Top 10, Promethea and all the other characters of the line~
As the creator, Moore's opinions should be respected. However, comic books ( and graphic novels) are a dying species of entertainment that can really use, in my opinion, all the cash they can squeeze out of lug heads who would rather play a game or watch a show than read the art. Exploit the dumbasses. Bleed em' dry. That's what I'd say. And I think Rorschach would say the same.
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