@sc: i think you are a wise person, but you are making a bag judgement about me, in other words you are saying that i m just one more hater that can't wait until everything is explained, part of discussion fun is to exchange ideas without know some of the facts, i can't prove you better but you judgement is a little unfair because in my topics and posts i try to have justifications for my opinions, and circumstantial prove sometimes is valid, there is this word "reputation" that allows you to construct what most likely happened without being there, if sometimes that is valid by the law, why my assumptions have no credibility?

I see that you give Aaron a lot of credibility, but you are also making the assumption that this change is temporary, and if isn't? But even if it's temporary you could acknowledge that this change will hurt Odinson core essential elements in the future, because now every time that some one is worthy of Mjolnir we will think will he/she become Thor? And in the past you never saw any worthy character that wasn't Asgardian have Asgardian speech when worthy of Mjolnir, even if you disagree that Thor is not a mantle, Mjolnir shouldn't make become Thor the Asgardian God of Thunder, because that hurts the Odinson identity and personality, female Thor is human but her speech and expressions are Asgardian, that writing is only for the sales and butches Thor and Mjolnir core essential elements that define both, other writers bring all the time new characters to the spotlight without deconstruct everything that is establish.

Yup in God is Dead Zeus Kill Odin, but they all eventually were resurrected, and i think at some point Odin also kill Zeus, until Hickman left the book, it was just a example of a possible story line that fits Thor, i saw some topics were Thor fans were very happy with Hickman's writing in Avengers when he gave him the unworthy Mjolnir from Thorr, i personally didn't like it, if the objective is to show what can he do without the hammer, there wasn't a need for that, but i really like Infinity a lot, and in God is Dead i like some of his writing in the different Gods, but in Marvel universe that story line had to centered in Asgard, but i really like when Gods fight, and to show you that i don't hate everything that is new, or don't think that writers shouldn't be creative, i think Angela has a huge potential as Angel and Odin's daughter, her stories could be merged with Surtur, Hela and Mephisto.

I also fail to post in 3 topics, and i thought, you keep saying Aaron this Aaron that, and SC (moderator) makes you write the posts over and over, now i do copy before post the reply, just messing with you :) must be some kind of temporary problem. Yes we disagree but i appreciate some of your thoughts and writing.

No-Jason Aaron has proven himself to be Unworthy of writing the adventures of Thor Odinson (Marvel's true Thor). The female impostor will never be respected or fully accepted as Thor by true long time Marvel fans.

@asgaard: Oh, I am sorry, I am not judging you, nor do I think that you are a hater. If you think that I apologize, that is note what I think at all. It is really as simple as not agreeing that this is a PR stunt. I think it could just be that lots of people in general, have expectations, and when those expectations aren't met they can react negatively, often disproportionately relative to their expectations. However its only when their expectations aren't met in a certain way. Like how many people expected JMS to put Midgard in the middle of America? As an idea I do not like that too much, since I think Thor stories are already too America-centric but I really liked the execution. Either way is it a PR stunt? Or is that just the story that JMS wanted to tell? Well we even know that JMS story was also influenced by JMS friend Gaiman who had a similar idea they once spoke about. Ditto Aaron, he has talked about how he has wanted to do this story before, a story similar to Simonson's Beta Ray Bill story, and we can argue about whether its good or not, but PR stunt?

You give great justifications for your opinions, I am not saying otherwise, I am saying I think its unfair to think that we all believe that, and chances are a lot of Thor posters do agree with you, but not all of us do. To put it another way imagine if someone made a thread "Factually speaking Aaron's Thor run is the greatest and if you disagree you are just a blind hater, but when he leaves which writer should replace him?" well whether its the greatest Thor run would be heavily disputed and someone shouldn't take for granted that others feel differently.

I am making the assumption this is temporary, a lot of my assumptions tend to turn out accurate, but when I am wrong I am okay with admitting it. Do I think that it will hurt Thor Odinson's essential elements? I do not really view it as a yes or no question, I think stagnant writing hurts Thor most, like Fraction's Tanarus arc, but its more complicated than that too. So far I have found Aaron's Nine Realms arc the weakest so far, however a lot of that was set up for Malekith, so later story arcs can capitalize on that, ditto those different realm allies Thor made, if later on they can be made deeper and more interesting, then the Malekith arc would at least be good build up. Those things affect whether a story hurts or harms. If someone was worthy they would always become Thor, that hasn't changed, its not because this new female Thor can, now everyone can, its still an extremely exclusive club, we just do not know the circumstances of why and how she is worthy even if that.

Marvel's Thor is a fictional character, owned by Marvel. Next week they could change all their characters names to Jane Marvel. They also have all sorts of fictional elements and components that only exist as ideas in real life. Saying that a fictional characters name, or anything is or isn't something is going to be problematic when attempting to establish fact. Again Thor is thousands of years old, his name has great honor and power, if I went outside and saw a magic hammer that made me fly, have super strength, and look like Thor I would probably call myself Thor. Lets say this is Roz, maybe she refers to herself as Thor out of honor. There are so many different ways to address the idea that "Thor is not a mantle" - ultimately it doesn't matter because if Marvel wants to think it is, they can. Thor also wasn't blonde, yet? So again, individuals personal expectations don't dictate what happens. Personal expectations however have total freedom to like, dislike, reject, so on as natural. If I was personally critical of the way the Thor name was being used, I would voice my criticism by saying "I think that its silly that Marvel treats the name Thor like a mantle", rather than try to reject or deny what actually happens. When Marvel Thor was made blonde, not many people cared, no internet, was just a comic mainly for children, people got use to it. Yet I could still go around saying Thor is not a blonde.

Oh nice - I need to catch up on that book. My favorite Hickman writing was in Secret Warriors, SHIELD and Fantastic Four. At least with one thing we know he would write a very epic Thor story. Oh and yes I remember to copy and save my posts now too heh heh, sorry you lost some posts too. Thank you, I appreciate and enjoy your posts as well.

@asgaard: I thought in loki agent of asgard they had a hidden agenda with future loki or whatever. Haven't read the title, just from what I saw in scans. Even still without them, it still seems obvious there is more going on than thor simply being unworthy.

@sc:

Series writer Jason Aaron emphasizes, “This is not She-Thor. This is not Lady Thor. This is not Thorita. This is THOR.This is the THOR of the Marvel Universe. But it’s unlike any Thor we’ve ever seen before.

if Jason Aaron made this changes only for the story he didn't need this speech, and the View stuff, but like you said at least that was my interpretation, comics are merged with pr stunts, and that doesn't mean that will hurt the story and the characters, and i hope you are right.

I don't make distinction between a comics pr stunt or other product pr stunt, and i my opinion you make that distinction, but i agree that, Thor stories are already too America-centric, this is very true, Thor and Asgard stories should be written in a non US perceptive, Aaron was able to contradict this statement and delivery it in some TGOT arcs, but he fail with the whisper, doesn't fit the way how Asgardians behave and see life, honor is the word, if the writing was consistent, after knowing of Thor behavior, Odin immediately would expel him from Asgard.

Even if we could forget all the other worthy characters from the past, even recently Loki, Aaron failed in the 3 first issues to make her other character with her own personality wielding Molnir, she is only the female version of Thor, there was nothing that the classic Thor Odinson would do different from what she did since she is worthy, if she behaves like she is the female version of the original Thor, what is the point of her story, (sales) what can she offer to Asgard that the original Thor couldn't!?

Go back to read God is Dead is lost time, after Hickman left the book the writing is very bad, even if i support freedom of speech and creativity, they put there characters that don't fit the original mythological War plot of Hickman, at least in my opinion.

If we are talking of the same agenda with future Loki, that was to know the future of Asgard.

We can go around and around but if you know and read Thor you know that the whisper, doesn't fit the way how Asgardians behave and see life, if the writing was consistent, after knowing Thor's behavior, Odin immediately would expel him from Asgard, but he also was unworthy of Mjolnir and that also was P.I.S. because he can't be the All father of Asgard and continue to define who is worthy to go to the Valhalla when he is unworthy.

You can't forget who Thor is, in Axis Thor without mjolnir made a lot of damage, even if he was shocked after hearing Fury's whisper he couldn't stop that fight, you and other Thor fans know that Honor is what defines him, and that was very bad writing for the noble warrior that he always was.

@asgaard: That quote is to emphasis the equality of the situation. I love She Hulk, and She Ra, and Thor Girl, as well as all the Girl and Boy DC Legion characters, but its a bit of a faux pas now. Aaron just doesn't want people to assume that he is creating a girly version, that Thor transcends gender. Thor is bigger than gender, bigger than mortal ideas about gender assignment. You can say he is failing at achieving that, I would say that he is failing to get that message across to a lot of diehard Thor fans, but I think for a lot of other fans, they get it.

The View stuff, Aaron will trust Marvel for that because Marvel is trying to raise the profile of the book so people will buy it. They succeeded with that, even though comics is in a bad period, Aaron's Thor number 1 still sold more than JMS Thor number 1, which was a relaunch after a period of absence. I personally prefer JMS run, but I can't fault Marvel for wanting to make money and for us Thor fans when Thor does make money, its good, it shows Marvel that he should be invested in, that he can carry events, that Thor is valuable as a brand. Thor's series is currently outselling big names like Superman and Hulk. The reason why is because of getting announced on the View and subsequent entertainment shows/websites.

I think that was Aaron's point with the first three issues, you view that as a negative? The way I look at it is more from a creative standpoint. I thought first three issues were average, but I think Aaron is trying to keep an elements of mystery, and so new female Thor needs to be almost a bit bland, in action, the interest is more about her own reaction to the situation and others reaction to her, which is why we have so much emphasis on her thought bubbles, Malekith/Frost Giants reactions, all that. I do not think this is a story about what she can offer Asgard, and if she did have more to offer people would get upset, rather she is making us ask questions about what makes Thor Thor, what makes a person Thor, what happens when you take away a defining aspect of Thor and give it to someone else, plus a story about a person (Roz for example) self discovery and what it means to be her. End of the overall story will have Thor stronger than ever, and whoever new Thor is, probably in a good place too. Again, I could be wrong, will have to wait and see.

Oh thats too bad to hear God is Dead loss on quality after Hickman left. I will catch up on it eventually.

I hope that Thor is not actually unworthy and that he can't lift mjolnir because of some ultra powerful magic. That doesn't make sense either but its is better than him becoming unworthy from a whisper and Odin becoming unworthy and losing control of Mjolnir because of plot.

@asgaard: I'm not saying the whisper wasn't bad writing, all I'm saying is that I think Odin not being able to pick up the hammer was supposed to be a wtf moment and part of the mystery and story. Why wouldn't Odin be able to pick up mjolnir? Well it's a mystery comic right now so it will probably be revealed in time.

@sc: TGOT already was outselling the Hulk book, you will see that after the the revelation of her identity the sales will drop to TGOT numbers.

After this change announcement, I think Aaron failed to connect with old time Thor fans, when i read his interviews on this subject he annoys me more and more, with the Other Guy and the previous version of Thor expressions, six moths ago he was writing Thor God of Thunder, and the unworthy young Thor was Thor not just Odinson, he can do better than that.

You have great points that Aaron himself couldn't make, but if he and marvel weren't so focused on the sales, we the "haters" could see this change in a different perceptive, like you were able to demonstrate, but i still have many reservations about his writing after the whisper, and how him and marvel are dealing with this change, it's possible that in the future i look back and think how wrong i was, but it's also possible that i was right and Aaron ruined what was very god (TGOT), just for the sales.

We will have to wait and see. :)

@asgaard:

That depends on when the revelation occurs, and which TGOT numbers, its initial sales or its later lower sales, all books generally decline, so if its next week, then no, but if its a few months from now, then that would be likely. How many books do you read and track sales wise?

I think its just some old time Thor fans, I am an old time Thor fan who has all the main Thor issues, and has read most of his non Thor series appearances, and I know others like me that are content, just again, most people do not come on to forums when they are content or happy.

"Haters" always exist, again, whatever your favorite Thor stories are, some people will hate them, and can criticize and hating/criticism isn't a bad thing, I was critical of Fraction's Thor series, and I can explain why, pointing at his strengths and weaknesses as a writer, talking about my own expectations, why his style is bad as far as delivering to my expectations. I don't just dislike Fraction because he didn't write way I personally wanted. Marvel is always, always about the sales. Marvel's Thor exists because of sales. Its not an insult, or bad thing. Fans usually just role that line out when they are unhappy with a direction, but it applies for creative decisions they like as well. Thats okay vote with your wallet. Do you have a job? Are you willing to stop get money and instead do it for free? Marvel is a business, every single one of your favorite Thor stories, the focus was on making money first.

Also sales means more readers, no matter how much you dislike the title, somewhere out there, people are enjoying it. Except people usually prefer being negative and critical towards a big company like Marvel and a writer they don't know than there fellow fans and readers of Thor, makes being so negative easier. Its a similar thing though, lots of people enjoy the book and buy the book. When I was critical of Fraction's Thor, I never had to justify my criticism by accusing Marvel/Fraction of being greedy.

1. Odin not lifting Mjolnir, and freyja not wanting to give up the throne.

2. Thor becoming unworthy because of a whisper. Thor's life force is bonded to Mjolnir. They should be closer than ever, it is almost like a part of him. Yet he still can be made unworthy by a whisper, even though Mjolnir is magical and should already know whatever the whisper was.

3. What was the whisper?

4. Thor got his arm chopped off by Malekith, and Thor seems to have a faltering warrior spirit like Asgardians should have.

Four things Aaron needs to fix or explain by the time female Thor is done.

Aaron is great for odin sake, even now with the crap name changing thing the story of Thor is pretty good, if he return to his work like he did in GOT he MUST keep the work

my avatar tells my opinion

@sc: I read all the Asgard stuff from marvel, (Loki AA, Angela AA, Female Thor), plus Avengers and new Avengers i only check the sales of the Asgard books, i was very disappointed with Angela sales, I don't know if it's a good idea to have 2 Asgard books with female lead, female Thor is getting all the attention, and her story could be useless, and Angela doesn't go anywhere.

Yes everything is business, and I get your perspective, but Aaron in issue 1 answer to a letter from a very disappointed fan, but we wasn't able to captivate all the fan base, he had the opportunity to be consensual between the fans, I know that you already said multiple times that no one is, there always will be haters, but he could be out there with Simonson, speaking of Simonson. I m also reading "Ragnarok", that is great but not awesome.

I need answers from the new book and if i didn't like them, i will not spend more money in something that i don't like, i think you like Aaron a lot, but you are also influenced by the negativity from some fans, in my opinion as Thor fan you also have your doubts about the whisper and Odin unworthy, but there is enough people "hating".

Issue 4 is out today!

@asgaard: Angela unfortunately wouldn't have sold that well anyway, fans don't really go for female lead books no matter how good they are, even characters like Elektra, She Hulk, with critically acclaimed and fan favored praise had its numbers drop far too fast and get to low. Exceptions like the new Ms Marvel, go against the trend, but she had a big buzz around her as well comparable to the hype around Thor. That could be said to be a PR stunt as well, yet its given that book more issues, something that can't be said about Elektra or She Hulk.

I like Aaron, but I like Fraction as well. I'l also extremely good at criticizing and critiquing comic books, I also know a bit about creative writing, and Marvel as a business. I don't really form thoughts or opinions based on fan reaction negative or positive, I prefer looking at things objectively. Oh I have doubts about everything, its skepticism, but thats the thing, things don't fall into two groups, positive or negative, their are reasonable ways to be critical, and unreasonable ways to be critical, reasonable ways to be praiseful and unreasonable ways. I am curious as to many things about the Thor title, but I don't have too many expectations from the book, if I don't like it I stop buying it.

Indeed, I probably can't read it until the weekend, hopefully it has some answers for you. ^_^.

@micah: And if you think that I'll do the same with Aaron's poser, then I've got only one thing to say to that: BULLSH!T. I never cared for Superior Spider-Ock and I was happy to see that clusterf**k of a story run its course. If people want to get duped into reading Aaron's abomination of a Thor comic, then fine. That's their choice. But as for me, I will neverpay homage to his counterfeit goddess.

And that's your opinion and you are perfectly entitled to it. But what I said is all true, I can't even begin to describe how many hypocrites hated Spider-Ock then praised it once they gave it a shot and saw what the end game was. I'll say one thing however, people like what they like. You can call the new Thor comic an abomination all you want but don't expect your word to be LAW.

Also I do think you'll do the same. I've seen so many do the exact same thing.

@micah: What is your opinion in how she is called Thor writing?

I was expecting more from Aaron, nothing epic because it's hard to make Thor a mantle, bu something more elaborated.

-I m not hating anything just exchanging opinions...

@asgaard said:

@micah: What is your opinion in how she is called Thor writing?

I was expecting more from Aaron, nothing epic because it's hard to make Thor a mantle, bu something more elaborated.

-I m not hating anything just exchanging opinions...

I think that scene does more justice for Male Thor than it does Female Thor. It is symbolic in which it is a passing of the torch moment IMO. I think Aaron did a great job showing us a short yet sweet moment that sums up how much Male Thor has grown as a character and how much Female Thor has to learn if she one day wants to be as great as him.

@sc: not going to spoil anything, we already knew why she was called Thor from Loki 10, Aaron use almost the same sentences, thought Aaron would do something more elaborated, but my expectations were very low, so doesn't change anything. Waiting for next issue! I saw Angela preview from next week and i liked a lot are you reading Angela? I would like that Kieron GiIllen and Marguerite Bennett could change some aspects of her mercenary behavior in the next issue.

@micah: Ok thanks for your opinion, respect your perceptive he already said something very close in Loki 10.

Not me. I thought the whole thing could have been done better and in what felt like to me a less trollish way. Both in story and out.

@asgaard: No problem.

Cheers :)

@micah: Get ready to eat your words.

this arc is so boring

Please no more. I did not like how he wrote the Hulk as well . Please bring back Thor to himself. I do not mind his hammer being self aware..not a new concept but somebody else

Going by his birth name is a horrible idea and insulting to readers.

OK it is official. I don't want Aaron anymore after he puts Thor back to normal. He is making Thor and Odin look really bad. I know he's gonna keep writing Thor for a long time and maybe when he's done with female Thor and gets Esad Ribic back, Thor will be good again. What he's doing now though is silly. He better make Thor getting his hammer back the greatest feeling moment ever. And he needs to keep including Thor's supporting cast in his stories. That was my main complaint with how he was writing thor before.

I've made my opinions well known about this entire concept, so instead of hurting anyone's feelings I'll just give some advice to fellow fans of Thor. STOP READING THE BOOK IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT. The most vociferous protest you can make instead of whining about it on a message board is to not buy it. You avoid so much stress, it's quite gratifying. I at least give Marvel credit for announcing the (so-called ¨planned¨) changes before the relaunch, because when I read the interviews by Alonso and Aaron and how they swore they were planning this from the start and how Aaron was ¨building up to this change¨ I knew that, conceptually, they would write themselves into a corner.

Aaron pretty much put the entire sexist whole of comic book culture in it's place.

Bravo, good sir, bravo!

I hope to see a day when the majority of the comics on shelves feature female protagonists.

I kept a open mind, but Thor handing over his birth name and Aaron insulting the fanbase ruined Female Thor for me. It was a nice idea seeing Mjonlir with a women and Thor with a metal arm and axe though, too bad Aaron couldn't deliver without being a douchey progressive (which is in the progressive nature)

The problem is that TGOT was phenomenal, and this new book has so many flaws, because Thor is the birth name of the character, and at least Aaron could make it more believable but he wasn't able to do that. I assume by your words that the plot doesn't matter in any case, but it's the most important part of any comic book.

More than ever i would like to see the current writer of Thor leave, and see Jonathan Hickman write Thor, besides Infinity and Time Runs Out, he also wrote the beginning of God is Dead...

yes

He's a great writer, but right now he's butchering Thor.

No he didn't, the vast majority of people denouncing new Thor are not complaining because she is a female, they are complaining because she is not Thor Odinson.

Lame, good sir, lame!

Ahh, spoken like a true feminist. When the word equality actually means to have a majority of female protagonists, also the word female is offensive http://www.buzzfeed.com/tracyclayton/stop-calling-women-females#.xkxQzE3WZ check your privilege you white male cis scum.

Hilarious that Aaron was in denial when this new creative decisions were announced, and we weren't allowed to say anything negative about the new female Thor (now Thordis), you had to like the change, or were labeled a sexist, but the new creative decisions execution was terrible and the majority of the original Thor fans never support Aaron current writing, and the mentioned writer went as far as insult the original Thor fans in issue #5 hiding again his parody writing (Titania/A Man) with the misogynist argument. But the mystery of the new run was incredible weak, Thordis motivations and existence never make any sense, and Aaron wasn't able to build anything consistent/coherent and with purpose in the new book plots, he just prove that original Thor fans were right all this time, when we call this creative decisions a PR stunt that didn't justify the end of the much superior TGOT, and finally yesterday Aaron admitted the mentioned Pr stunt in the New York Times interview... Link

“Most of the new readers seem to be women and young girls, which is great,” Mr. Aaron said. “You’re seeing more and more comics that appeal to that audience.” The popularity of the new Thor has also increased his recognition with non-comics fans. “Usually when I say I write comics for a living, I kind of get blank stares,” Mr. Aaron said. “Now, when I say I write Thor, they say, ‘You’re the lady Thor guy?’ Yup. That’s me.”

Obviously that he shouldn't write Thor anymore and i will not read SW Thors or anything that he can write in the future...

@asgaard:

No, Aaron should never have been writing Thor or any other super hero comic, his style isn't suited for super hero comics hes way to dark and depressing.

I quit reading the new Thor's soon after Aarron started writing, I went to ebay and bought over 300 back issues of Thor comics I now have a complete run of Thor comics starting with issue 130 to read. I'm very content to ignore Marvel comics completely , the only new comics I look at are inde's and DC , I'm done with Marvel/Disney B.S. they ruined Marvel comics turning it into a worthless merchandising and marketing rag maker.

Everyone at the comic shop says the stories are like watching a train wreck happen , watching to see how bad its going to get. Even with the reboot Marvel/Disney comics will still sux all they care about is marketing and merchandising. Comic book characters stories are now dictated by marketing and accounting at Disney.

Aaron's obsessed with turning the Thor mythos into some cosmic murder/mystery intrigue. "Cosmic god cops." I know 16 year-old stoners with better ideas.

Quick, someone get them jobs writing for Marvel. :P