Bleeding Cool

God dammit.

@zarius: I am trying to understand this. Couldn't they at least give them some interesting time back in the old universe, that would be interesting, but I have a hard time seeing how with fewer issues they could meaningfully do that. DC has a problem with getting good characters and stories out across the board right now, and I really don't like it.

@zarius: damn. I thought it was at least 12. It better be selling well.

Well, there are eight on schedule. There might still be 12.

i am enjoying lois and clark a lot more than i do new Superman stories.

Rumor is they are going to start renumbering some of their comics around issue 52 which would coincide with number 8 in this series. Also in superman 50 pre and post flashpoint are going to meet up.

I don't understand the love this book is getting. It's been kinda boring IMO.

It's possible that this is being shortened up because they need the character(s) for something else. For example, as another poster mentioned, we know he's going to appear in an issue or more of the mainline Superman book, and it could be that he dies there, gets merged with the new-52 Superman somehow, or whatever.

The other thing is, if they are really talking about restarting the numbering *again* as is rumored above, and on multiple books, then the timeline/nature of the universe may be getting changed or reset again ala Flashpoint, Crisis on Infinite Earths, Infinite Crisis, etc.. Maybe we'll get a Clark/Superman as the only Superman who is neither of the existing characters.

Of course, the new numbering could just be a gimmick. I'm of the school that restarting the numbering is an annoying gimmick if it's not suddenly a new comic. It made sense for new52 because we'd never seen this timeline's Superman before, so it was his debut, and the same goes for most of the comics that restarted and their heroes and villains. If it's just because they want to sell more books, it unnecessarily confuses people's collections and where each time period is set. In a sense, unless they feel they need another complete reboot, renumbering is the worst thing they could possibly do.

But at this point, a complete reboot might not be a horrible idea. Maybe some big disaster hits and the earth is decimated or something, and our heroes are at a loss, some are dead, the end of neigh, etc.. And old-Superman turns to existing Superman and imparts some of his old universe knowledge to reset the timeline and says something like "I can't guarantee what the future will be, but at least there will be a future again.... Maybe it'll even be better than this one was.", trademark Superman wink to the 'camera' and reset. Maybe the reset requires both Supermen to sacrifice their lives- something they can only do together- or new52 Superman sucker punches the old one and says "Sorry, my friend, this is something I have to do myself". When the change is made, there's a flash of light and a haze, a blurring together of colors and scenes from several timelines (Probably primarily new52 with some of the previous timeline to that, and a few Golden or Silver Age things) and few mildly spoilery glimpses of the future one.

The haze clears and then- in the newly created mainstream timeline, zoom in on Metropolis, we see the Daily Planet, we zoom to the street, one man points to the sky says "It's a bird!", a woman looking up and shading her eyes says "It's a plane!", a child says, in awe, "It's Superman!". END.

Issue one is a cover of Superman in the hypothetical new continuity in full flight, with a costume that is not quite either of the previous versions.

Just a thought.

so? It dropping in sales so it getting axe

I'm honestly surprised this was an ongoing. The premise always seemed temporary.

I feel this has something to do with Dc reaching issues 52 and DcY being a failure.

Shame. Its been the best post flashpoint Superman book for me so far. =/

This sucks. I really liked this book and thought it had potential to be an incredible series.

It's nothing special in it's concept and has been done before and why some people call Superman a boring bare bones square.

@jimishim12: How has it been done before? The one example similar to this one to a HIGHLY LIMITED EXTENT was the Justice Society run where Earth-22 Superman came to the Pre-Flashpoint Universe back around 2007-2009, IIRC. That Justice Society run dragged on for a while though.

Its not done in any similar way, even that run you mentioned didn't feature Superman in a family dynamic which is the focus here. That particular user just has a irrational hatred for anything Pre-52 for some reason. Just look at his comments.

This forum has a particular division between New 52 and Pre 52 fans.

@squalleon: I just figured it was new in most aspects. I wonder why they can't just find some continuity to get finished with (I do not care for Injustice) and replace it with some stories about returning to pre-flashpoint (New Earth). That would be amazing. Although I could be wrong and there is a liking for some other series. I mean they put effort into Earth One, and I don't believe the old pre flashpoint universe is truly gone. They could write that universe back if they wanted to. Make Lois super with mad science so that they are he Super Trio or something.

Well... at least this kinda cuts down on the time till it's released in Trade. I hope.

@soldierofel said:

Well... at least this kinda cuts down on the time till it's released in Trade. I hope.

I hope they go the Unchained route and release it simitatiously with the last issue. Especially if they are planning to bring him into the mainstream titles after Lois and Clark, a series that ends when the mainstream titles reach issue 52....

DC can't have two universes at the same time running. One will have to take back seat. Marvel's Ultimate Universe became quite a throw away universe after the first three or four years and it ended with a whimper. So I don't think DC can't have two universes running because of not being able to handle two continuities and of course because the point of comics right now is accessibility, DC wouldn't want to confuse new readers.

@diehard200904: They announced that it is officially just 8.

Jurgens himself said there would only be 8 issues in response to a fan's question about the series length, a decrease from the original 12 issues Jurgens claimed Lois and Clark would run for.

Can't say I'm surprised DC are dropping Lois and Clark sooner than it was meant to run for, whether it was the sales or intended focus back on New 52 Superman following the disastrous Truth crossover, it looks like I'll be back to going without a Superman title on my pull list. I bought it in the hopes that I would be reading a familiar Superman with a better disposition than New 52 Superman and the series exceeded my expectations in that regard. There was still potential in telling not just Superman's story but Lois' continued secret writer moonlighting and Jon finding out and reacting to his parents' secrets. Cramming all the plot lines and character beats into the 8th issue could have an adverse effect on Jurgens' otherwise solid pacing. I just hope I get the money's worth in the end.

it doesn't mean that lois and clark can't be on another book or have this book renamed and new issue 1. you people should wait and judge afterwards.

@lvenger: Jon not Chris.

@kiba: Edited in, I still have a soft spot for Chris from Johns and Busiek's use of him in their Superman comics. That was a good way of progressing the Superman comics onto the next step with Superman as an actual father figure.

Damn.

I am really enjoy enjoying this. I hated New 52 superman. Finally felt like reading my favorite character again for the first time in years. I didn't really expect it to get a ongoing though, but I did hope.

@lvenger: I absolutely agree. I loved Christopher Reeve and seeing them honor him was great and the story was very well done and sad at the end. I wish he'd have stayed with them as a child.

@kiba: It was a great way to honour the most famous depiction of Superman and add on to the Superman line in the One Year Later status quo. Chris was definitely the best of Superman's children and him being an adopted Kryptonian gets around the biology incompatibility issue.

DC is a mess in how it is handling just about everything, there's no denying that. Their own screwing up is spilling over too, and I am guessing this is taking a hit.

@arkhamace: On second thought, they might just take a "break", but the characters still exist, then they get another miniseries down the road, maybe more.

the fans have a right to know what happened to the old clark and lois. only because of the fans they supported superman.

@diehard200904: Indeed, the mess ups and mistakes of DCYou in particular have been painfully obvious this year for certain. Superman hasn't had a stable status quo in 2-3 years and that is not a way to build up readership on Superman or to tell new stories with the character under forced events all the time. Hopefully April's solicitations will show a return back to individual storytelling in Superman's comics.

Hopefully it sets up Henshaw in his fully glory,that Zor-El rubbish needs to die.

@arkhamace: I would rather he either retires from being Superman than dies, Dan Didio had a thing against married superheroes, maybe that's changed since it's been two years since then, but it has me worried. I liked the Disney film The Incredibles, to give you an idea of where I am coming from.

@entropy_aegis: Zor-El always made more sense as The Eradicator than as a replacement for Hank Hemshaw. If I ever wrote my own version of the new Doomsday reboot, I would have had Zor-El play the role of the New Eradicator and have Brainiac invade Earth with his bots. Superman would be sick, coughing, puking from Doomsday poisoning rather than become some Hulk ripoff, and Zor-El would go out to try and revive comatose nephew with a form of Bizarro Kryptonite on a Bizarro world with Kara, then they would return during the heat of Brainiac's army invading Earth. Zor-El would then infuse Superman with the Bizarro Kryptonite,he doesn't wake up but Brainiac's army are outside, so he and Kara head out there to battle, and then, well, it turns out the other JL arrived to battle the invaders near where Supes is being held. Kara gets shot once with a weapon containing both red Sun and Kryptonite radiation, and as the villain prepares to fire again, Zor-El tackles the officer and trashes him a bit. In the struggle, Zor-El gets blown apart and dies later, leaving him sacrificing himself to protect the heritage of Krypton.

Superman wakes up and the League combines to take the final battle to the mothership.

Let's just say that's a better Zor-El, and a better skeleton of a plot than what we got with Doomed.

me too. i don't know whats so bad about a man or woman having a relationship, its like a team up book or crossover. haven't watched but it should be good i heard. all the disneys are great.

About Dan Didio's statement, he was against rebooted characters being married off shortly after the reboot happened with the New 52. I agree with him for the specific character in question at the time, as well as for the rebooted version of Superman, who was not married at the start of his story, and usually it took years into continuity to have a marriage happen, unless it's an imaginary tale or Elseworlds story, where it happens sooner. I don't believe this statement by Didio from 2013 will spell the death of the pre-flashpoint Superman, because he is not a "rebooted" character. Make any sense?

@diehard200904: Is that why Batwoman's engagement and marriage to Maggie Sawyer was snipped in the bud? Didio's statement from a few years back does say that “Heroes shouldn’t have happy personal lives. They are committed to being that person and committed to defending others at the sacrifice of their own personal interests." Which earned Didio a massive amount of ire for cutting out a personal and relatable side to comic books.

What part? I just don't see why superheroes should get married off so soon in their story, generally speaking, with a few exceptions. But my thinking is that editorial doesn't apply to the Lois & Clark miniseries because this isn't the rebooted Superman. I really don't think, like @suemorphplus209 mentioned, that this old rediculous statement applies or will result in the Post-Crisis Superman being killed off.

The quote I was thinking about was actually this one,

"These are about superhero comics...I don’t want to read a book about a marriage. This is personal, but what I want to read a book about is how they are balancing all elements in their lives...It doesn’t mean DC won’t have married characters, that's ridiculous...We’re two years into the new continuity, why rush things? It’s not set in stone...we want to develop relationships before we start marrying people...there have to be sacrifices when you become a hero… So it has to come from the personal life… That doesn’t mean DC won’t have married characters, but why do you want to rush to the end?"

@diehard200904: You may be optimistic, but I am still worried that DC isn't friendly to married superheroes. They might very well be nasty to Lois & Clark just for the sake of it not making them enough money. They might also give some BS ending just because editorial doesn't seem to like married superheroes, but they seem fine with some of them hooking up and shacking up. He may not be just another superhero in this continuity, but he's still a superhero that I can see them putting their hands on just to make their own biased points about.

Well, what's a little optimism sometimes? DC is not going to just kill off their old iconic couple for not having the best of sales. I think some kind of "ending" killing off alternate universe Supermen is a little redundant at this point (Look at notorious past "crisis" Crossovers, such as where Kal-L died) So I hope DC doesn't have that plan, and I don't think that they do. Sometimes you just have to accept that you don't know what is going to happen. To each their own, but sometimes a plot twist that isn't predictable for me is okay. I don't believe any of that old anti-superhero marriage stuff applies specifically to the Pre-Flashpoint Lois and Clark at all. I hold my head up in optimism that whatever happens, they aren't going to kill off the old Superman and/or Lois Lane, anyone else is welcome to do the same if they wish.

Yes.

And there was outrage, people called DC bigots because they thought it was because they were gay. They didn't know DC had a "no married super-heroes" policy :P The creators had to come out to explain it, although they share some of the fault because they led people to believe that.

It was hilarious.

The part about DC executives like Dan Didio being against marriage or long term personal relationships of their characters in their comics. I'd say you're right about the no marriage policy not applying to the Post Crisis Superman but at this point in the DC reboot, it would't surprise me if he went the way of the Pre Crisis Earth 2 Superman by the end of Lois and Clark. DC have made many a silly faux pas in their decision making process throughout the reboot.

I remember seeing your quote somewhere, the one I was referring to was something Didio said at the Baltimore Comic Con a few years back. That's where he made the remark about DC superheroes' personal lives.

Haha yes your recollection of that controversy is coming back to me now. DC were getting called bigots and homophobes to a degree so they had to clarify themselves as actually perpetuating the lesser evil of ensuring no married superheroes. That was quite the humourous instance of a corner DC backed into as a result of a few wrong words and expressions.

@lvenger: I sure hope that they don't kill off Post-Crisis Superman like they did Earth-2 Kal-L in that Infinite Crisis, it would be redundant. However, Infinite Crisis did happen 20 years into Post-Crisis Continuity, right now we are nowhere near that far in terms of the DCYou continuity, people remember him, a lot of people do not hate him. Even plenty of people I know who like the DCYou Superman would rather see him return to the Pre-Flashpoint universe than get killed off. In fact, I would also think that Kal-L dying didn't serve much of a point that would be memorable, except maybe for those on Prime Earth being shocked at Earth-22 Superman, since he looked a whole lot like Kal-L but actually wasn't. But given how the reboot hasn't been that long ago, people are more familiar with Post-Crisis Superman and I don't think even those who want a different Superman would want to see him die. I sure don't, and I confess I like some aspects of both, although part of it maybe just having interest in Golden Age Superman, and seeing some of that carried over.

Media also promotes pre-flashpoint Superman. In fact, we still also have film adaptations of Pre-Flashpoint Superman going on in live action film, and Superman: Unbound was also based on that, so people are still familiar with that version of Superman. Maybe he will die, but he's still being adapted and promoted into the DCEU, and with media presentation, I doubt many will want to see him die. Too much like Infinite Crisis is still too much like Infinite Crisis.

Sorry for those reading it but it was sales. Stop blaming DC when DC gave you a book. Very poor numbers for what some claimed was the most anticipated book that all wanted. Clearly not. DC gave the fans what they wanted and again they or they that try to speak for others... sales not reflected. If this book did really well, no way it would have been prematurely cut. I personally did not like they shoe horned this character into the new 52 overnight and they had them suddenly 10 years on the new 52 verse...it was trying as if to undercut the new 52 Superman by cheating imo.

They should have had their own earth to be their own heroes. Not piggy back off the main earth. Not try to claim he is the better Superman when all he did was essentially hide while letting a young Superman struggle and the world suffer. All this fighting injustice while hiding to me is excuses DC trying to throw things at the wall and see what sticks.Convergence was such a poor event and yet DC actually wanted to pull that into the new 52 when they should have just said bye bye to these heroes and send them off into the multiverse. They can be used if and when they want but leave the new 52 on its own. This Superman had his time when he was rebooted back in the 80ties. DC need to man up on their new verse and give the new 52 one his time. That is just how it should be.

I agree it was sales,and demand is never as high as it seems online.

But,

If DC gave fans the characters the actual way,and how we actually like them,maybe these books would do atleast a lil better.

We asked for wally,but not this wally.

We asked for new pre Flashpoint superman stories,just not here,and not this way.

Kon and bart,changed more than they should have been,they lost the lil touches that make a character the same character you love and want to continue to love.

@stephens2177: Yeah, I am okay with the book overall, but kind of disappointed that it seems to all be in the post-flashpoint universe. I don't care how much people say that pre-flashpoint universe is gone, writers can say otherwise. I am worried about old Superman being killed off, but I am well, partway done and I will keep on giving the series a shot to the end and see what happens.

I understand DC thinks changing things,or making them somehow fresh and new is a good thing,but time after time sales and Internet complaints prove this isn't the way to go.fans who love characters love them the way they are right then in that moment,so when you tweak the character the fans will be ticked that it wasnt the way we left them.

Wally went from a full grown man with a wife and kids to a very young angry kid,superman was not about hiding in the shadows,letting others do what he knew he should do,and dressing totally the opposite from what we remember him from.not to mention nown he has to share the world with another superman,one that gets dibs.superboy went from a human clone with just TTK,to a hybrid with emerging kryptonian powers,to a lab rat clone with no likable personality and to Marvel TK like powers.

@stephens2177: That's where DC just needs to take a leap of faith sometimes, if all you do is go along with complaints, which run in a long spectrum from people who are very traditional to those who want change, you ultimately end up going nowhere. You have to pick a direction and take it, it's just an inconvenient fact that you aren't going to please or impress everyone and there will almost inevitably be some complaints. DC seems to let themselves get pushed around a lot, which is not a good thing.

About how Superman from the old universe has changed, well similar things happen when Superman has a child or children in Elseworlds stories. The epilogue to JSA - Thy Kingdom Come suggests that the Elseworlds Superman there, being a husband and a father, pretty much had a lot of his life occupied with his job and well, I don't care how super his wife was, she would want him there to watch the children sometimes and give her some free time sometimes, much less have some personal time, date nights, etc. That explains why Old Clark would be in relative obscurity for a good chunk of time while little Jonathan was growing up, it would be rediculous to the relationship. Even in The Incredibles, a superhero movie I really love, they put down a 15 year time gap, to not worry about all the kids, marriage busniness, etc, involving Helen and Bob. Now that Jonathan well, is older, it's different.