Is it just me or does anyone else agree that Superman seems to be the underdog in his Forthcoming clash with Batman in Dawn of Justice. Sure he's obviously more powerful in just about every way...but common... I mean its safe to say that a majority expect Batman to win.

Because bats is the underdog.

No, the plot is.

Bat's is the kid from Cobra Kai. He has like none of the personality traits one would associate with the underdog. Sure he's weaker, but he's starting a fight with a guy who is misunderstood and trying to help people. Does that sound like an underdog to you?

@saintwildcard: Yeah I was just talking in terms of their abilities which is how the general audience outside of comic book readers see it.

But there is also the very loud minority of poser bandwagoners so you can never really tell.

SMH So misguided. Everyone knows Johnny was the real hero and Daniel was the villain. Don't believe me? Google it.

I dont know. To me the trailers seem to be painting Superman as the villain and Batman more as the underdog.

Superman pimped slapped the batmobile like it was nothing. I'm pretty sure Batman is the underdog here.

From what I've gathered from the trailers, it looks like Batman is the underdog in the fight.

How is the underdog the person picking the fight, making threats about making people bleed, when the other person barely knows who is threatening him, the underdog? That sounds more like a bully.

Batman is the one who has a problem with Superman. The world is split, but a lot of people have a problem with Superman.

The story of BvS is partially Superman vs. The World. Lex, Bruce, and the Government want him taken down. That's how the trailers make it look like.

Likewise, if you're a comic fan, Superman is the underdog based on popularity. Because writers have been telling us for years that (and this actually holds water,) Superman beating Batman is boring because it's a super strong alien vs. a human. So they make use of shenanigans to give Batman a W more often than you'd think.

The casual movie audience probably sees Batman as the underdog, but they're not of the initiated. And even logical thinking says Batman is the underdog. But Comics don't often follow logic, now do they? Why would a movie then?

I don't really see either being a real "underdog" then. Batman is too popular to ever be the underdog against another hero, and Superman outclasses Batman in every category except cunning and ruthlessness.

And at worst, Bruce is chased by Gotham PD. The world at large probably doesn't even know he exists, but they all know Superman does. Lex is a mutual enemy, but I'd say that Bruce is more willing to work with Lex at the start of this than he is Superman.

In terms of experience, Superman is definitely the underdog. He has only been at what he does (officially) for 18 months while Batman has been at it for at least 20 years. Batman has fought and defeated superhumans (hence Suicide Squad) and even though Superman if FAR superior to any of them, Batman is still capable of coming up with a way to stand against him. Also, Superman is just a misunderstood guardian angel while the other guy is a brutal vigilante.

"Stay down, if I wanted it, you'd be dead already." underdogs usually don't say that.

Exactly.

@kenshima15:

Actually I don't expect Batman to win anything, but some sense.

It's quite clear that if they don't want people throwing punches at each other in the movie theaters, Bats and Supes fight is gonna end in a draw.

Bruce might get his conveniently created piece of kryptonite, but it doesn't seem that that alone will guarantee him a win.

He'll catch Superman off-guard, that's for sure. But if Superman was able to survive being right inside the beam that was kryptoforming the Earth, it would be incredibly stupid to make kryptonite be as deadly in the movie has it is in the comics.

Also, something tells me that the majority of the kryptonite will be used on Zod to turn him into Doomsday.

@scouterv: you're right..in all the trailers it shows batman talking trash to superman..calling him a son of a bitch and everything..he does seem like a bully that gona get his butt wipped..than he's gonna respect him..it's gonna take a butt beating for him to shut his mouth..

@transformaa:

The problem being.

If Superman defeats Batman even with him using kryptonite, Batman fans are gonna go balistic and call it BS.

If Batman defeats Superman, then Supes fans are gonna go balistic and say that the mere existence of kryptonite is in itself a major plot hole and as such, it's all BS.

The better way to deal with it, will be to end things in a draw. Where neither Superman nor Batman can really take each other out. Supes because he will not want to, and Batman because even with his conveniently created kryptonite will not be able to beat Superman.

And then of course we have Doomsday. That will ultimately unite those two.

That's the problem with trailers. They ruin much of the fun even before we see the movies.

People expect Batman to win, because Batman is the master of pulling game-winning tricks out of his rear. However the setup is very much that Batman is the rogue underdog going up against a god-like being.

But neither of them are going to win, Batman is going to throw away a few million dollars worth of ammunition and tricks, Superman gets to soak it all up and not fall over, both end up looking decent. And then the two have to work together because a huge kryptonian zombie decided to be part of the fun.

Superman sure sounds like the Underdog. The only thing that I found lacking in this clip is Superman saying something like: "Kneel Before the Super God"

He comes to Batman's territory, threatens him and tells him to stop doing what he does best.

Supes be vicious

@black_arrow: That clip made me weak at the knees. Supes not agreeing with Bats's methods is a staple theme in every one of their 'first' meet ups and their conflict as a whole.

This is going to be the longest two and a half months of my life!

I've seen people on other sites saying Superman would not say that and I think that's bull. Supes always gets serious when it comes to protecting people.

I understand Superman telling Batman to stop, It has happened before, but Superman would never said it in the way He said it here. Superman would never say "Consider It mercy", It sounds as If he is going to kill him if he sees him again. It doesn't make Superman look good and It doesn't make him look like the Underdog. Besides who is he to talk about morality, He has proven that he is willing to do whatever is necessary to protect the Planet, Batman is just doing the same but with Gotham, this turns Superman into a hypocrite. In the comics this is justified because Superman has clear lines that he would never cross and Batman's methods are sometimes too extreme for his morality.

Incompetent story-telling already, lol. Goyer and Snyder are pathetic.

I don't believe Goyer is involved. And I believe by no mercy, he means he's gonna hand Batman over to the authorities, not snap his neck.

And yeah Supes doesn't mind issuing warnings or threats to those who deserve it.

Hasn't superman been doing threat since Golden age?

Lmao

This. Couldn't be more obvious. At least this version of supes gave bats a warning. I remember Byrne's superman was gonna take him to the cops straight away, Batman threatened blowing up somebody with a bomb if superman laid a hand on him. Just gonna mention that later on in the issue we find out bats hid the bomb on his person so the person he'd be blowing up would be himself, makes no difference though.

Goyer is involved. Why these idiots chose Goyer for Superman of all things, with his track record of writing mostly violent and grim horror themed superheroes is beyond me. It's sad that both the Superman comics and films have incompetent idiots in charge.

They actually trying to make Bats the underdog and Superman the overpowered villain. The normal human vs the god who has everything at this finger tips. Brain vs the dumb brick. It's pretty standard way DC and WB ( since in animation) has created the BM v SM dynamic which is very unfair. Superman is not a jerk but God forbid we get a more equal dynamic in terms of minds. Snyder and Goyer too imo crafted a poorly developed Superman. His mind, motivation and compassion etc were never explored. You need to have audiences care for your character, walk a bit in his shoes, care for what his pov his...did Clark even have any? And I am not one of those people who disliked the Zod killing. MOS was Clark being told what to do. Bruce...well the world knows how and why about him and they care.

Possibly not. Though this is coming from someone who is always wary of having Batman mixed with his Superman. I don't read his books for a reason.

I really hope not. I mean yeah, everyone in the world doesn't usually see this side of Superman, but my Gods am I tired of evil Supermen. And you can already guess who will miraculously outlive everyone else and save the world.

Well, Superman was positioned as the antagonist. But most Superman fans don't really recognize that version of Superman. Especially considering that technically Superman was doing good. HE Was just handicapped.

A fair point. However, I think that's the point of the story. Both sides are equally valid, I suppose. It's like asking do you like coffee or Tea.

Normal human? Batman is far from normal by any stretch. That type of obsessive behavior, that rage, and of course the wealth and privileged that no normal person could hope to come close to obtaining...that's not normal. While I agree, I feel that's what they tend to go for, it's not all that difficult to realize what Superman himself brings to the table without being told. You do it here, even.

With that said, Superman has had only one movie to develop and we have no idea how smart Bruce is in this incarnation anyway. If audiences don't care about Superman, they really won't about Batman.

But I actually disagree with you there. I thought, while the pacing was off, we've been given a good bit of time to learn about Clark through the flashbacks and even his actions in Man of Steel. He's not a god and he's not a dumb brick. Man of Steel and the BvS trailers don't really give that vibe (the god thing is more people's perception.)

"Do you bleed? You will."

Because clearly Bruce's back is against the wall, right?

Bruce is the one picking a fight with someone. He sounds like a bully.

Pretty sure the viewer is the underdog of DoJ.

@scouterv: Riiiight. If you want to use quotes for your argument I'll just reuse mine.

"Stay down, if I wanted it, you'd be dead already."

And I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding here but does an underdog need to have his back against the wall to be called an underdog?

Everyone expects batman to lose, the only reason why they want to see the fight is for entertainment....the guy is going against someone who would crush him with his pinky (hyperbole).

Now when based on popularity, or what superman is going through in the movie I see where you are coming from but I was taking it in a more literal sense, Batman v Superman. Not Superman vs the world. An underdog going against a god-like being. That's is what I meant by batman being the underdog and that is exactly what my quote showed.

@comicace3: Kind of helps to be backed into a corner if you want to be the underdog.

An underdog doesn't go around picking fights. An underdog doesn't make threats. Underdogs don't talk trash. Batman is clearly confident in what he's doing and Supes would ignore him otherwise.

If we were the observer, which we clearly are, we see a person who is fighting someone out of his league; the threats and picking fights is negligible when this person is going against someone who is nigh-invincible to him.

I could threaten and pick fights with a gang but I would still clearly be the underdog due to the disadvantages I'd have to face.

@comicace3: No. I see someone writing checks with their mouth, their butt can't cash.

You know what you're doing when you pick that fight with that Gang. You're not the underdog. You're just...none to bright in that scenario.

I'm sorry?

Ok so I see that you are very adamant in your opinion, as am I, so this might be going no where. I still believe Bruce here is the underdog in the fight and you believe it is the opposite.

a person, team, etc., that is expected to lose a contest or battle

: a less powerful person or thing that struggles against a more powerful person or thing

Well here is the definition of underdog. We do expect Batman to win but I think that's more in keeping with the fact audiences expect underdogs to win. And superman is clearly more powerful so by the definition above Batman is the underdog. And I don't know who said batman is talking trash to superman who would otherwise leave him alone but the trailers make it clear both of them want this fight.