Chi is an extremely broad concept. It depends on what sort of chi we're discussing. There are many fictions that make a distinction between chi/ki/chakra/life energy and magic, but just as many who use those concepts as stand ins for magic.

I've always considered chi a natural/spiritual energy; it's not necessarily magical because all life has it. I wouldn't say its a weakness but it really depends on the wielder and what kind of chi

What is this comic ?

Just going to repost what I said in a New 52 Superman vs Toriko thread so I'm not repeating myself from memory:

For anyone who believes this nonsense, allow me to debunk it right now. Maybe it should go in a DBZ thread, maybe it belongs in the Discuss and Debunk thread, but I'm getting tired of this absurd and incorrect evidence used in the Superman vs Goku debate. Superman is NOT vulnerable to Ki attacks based on these singular and inconsistent scans for these reasons;

1. For all the times this supposed Ki tower got hyped up in this Question comics (that'll come up later btw) they were only ever statements. There was never any proof to these unsubstantiated claims about the spiritual tower. Thus, to quote the late and great Christopher Hitchens, "what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." Without any showings to prove Superman would be affected by such an unknown form of energy, you'd think this would have happened before. But of course to anyone who had read some Superman comics, chi wielders haven't harmed Superman like magic users do.
2. Secondly, DBZ evidently paints a different picture between Ki and magic. Even Death Battle's flawed research figured that much out. When Babidi used his powers to mind control Vegeta, utters the incantation "Papparapah" to teleport or creates a barrier, that's clearly using a different form of energy than Ki, vis a vis magic. Just because Ki is spiritual doesn't automatically make it capable of harming Superman.
3. If chi/ki really was able to harm Superman, why haven't writers used it more often in comics? They're always using Kryptonite, magic, red sun radiation and telepathy whenever they can't think of a way to write a good Superman story without weakening him. If Lex was the one who built/funded this tower as what happens in this story, why didn't he do it again? Or could it be that Lex values the empirical and scientific proof of Kryptonite and Red Solar radiation as proven to be capable of harming Superman, when this spiritual tower did not.
4. Lastly, the scans are not from any of Superman's comic book series at the time (which numbered at 4 during this period), they're from a Question mini series written by Rick Veitch in 2005. No Pre Flashpoint Superman comic or writer has ever acknowledged that Superman has a weakness to spirtual energies to my knowledge. And since this wasn't strictly a Superman centric comic (Superman only guest starred in this mini-series) that makes the inclusion of a new weakness in a non Superman comic very dubious in my opinion. Plus, Rick Veitch was the guy who wrote Superman: At Earth's End so I think that makes it clear he knows and understands jack **** about Superman.

That should cover why Superman is clearly not vulnerable to Ki attacks like he is with magic. To believe in such a bogus opinion is to ignore a wider context, to believe in assertions without verifiable proof and to forgo logical induction for speculative and fanciful deductive reasoning in order to fit how some people spread false truths and interpretations of certain characters. Stick with the usual reasons if you want to argue Goku can defeat Superman because this is evidently not a good argument to use if you think about it for just a second.

Tfw DBZ gets brought up

Idk would be a awesome explaination why karate kid is able to take on kryptonian level people

As someone who's done research into chi vs magic, the two are not that different, they are all part of something called an esoteric spectrum, chi is like a cousin to magic, not as versatile, but easier to harness, and it should in fact hurt Superman the same way magic does, but Superman fanboys will argue "But it's not magic" So what? If I was writing it, I'd say Chi is part of the same spectrum of things.

@precrisisbardock: Because this argument pretty much only exists for the purposes of Goku vs. Superman

I mean, I don't think he's weak towards it, just something that he can get hit and harmed by, like Dr. Light's light in battle, or countless other things.

His durability comes from a form of chi, so if you hit a iron sword against a iron shield what happens?

@conner_wolf: And as someone who's researched Superman for a while, there's never been any proof that chi can harm Superman in the same way magic does. Even if your assumption about chi was correct, Dragon Ball depicts chi/ki as a physical force dependent on the user's physical and mental abilities. It's not magic which can bypass Superman's durability as he has no specific defenses against it. Superman has also resisted magical attacks on several occasions so chi/ki isn't going to do much better.

@lvenger: Let me ask you something, Aleve vs Tylenol, two different medicines, both do the same. That's how I see the Chi vs Magic thing, both are esoteric and in all honesty, while there's no proof for it, I believe it's a reasonable theory. As opposed to what you said before, this theory does have evidence, it's just a theory, it can't be proven or disproven.

And in my opinion Superman tanking magical attacks is pretty PIS unless they're really weak.

@conner_wolf: Again your point doesn't have ground to stand an as chi and magic don't even always do the same thing in fictional mediums like manga. Chi tends to focus on the manipulation of the physical world whereas magic involves manipulating anything physical, spiritual, mental or insert other force of the universe.

Your next point doesn't even make sense, it's not evidence if your theory can't be disproven as false, that just means you can't prove it to be true or factually accepted. You have to test something and find support for what you proposition if you want your theory to become fact. What you're claiming isn't close to an empirical and verifiable connection between theory and fact, it's just you dodging gaping flaws by hiding behind ambiguity. Which isn't very credible in the slightest.

Superman has consistently withstood a range of magical attacks and it's not as if he does so all the time, he can still be taken out by magic. The urban myth you're buying into is that Superman is weak to magic when he just has no defense against it like he does against normal physical attacks like a nuke or a superhuman punch.

@lvenger: I didn't mean it as in they do the same thing naturally, I meant it as in, they're both esoteric forces, they should both hurt him since Chi is very close to what magic is.

I didn't say it was fact, but you said there's no evidence at all and it was simply incorrect, I'm saying there is logic and reason to point to it, in fact people have pointed out Karate Kid could hurt Kryptonians because he uses Chi. That's unproven, but still adds to the theory.

Consistency=/=reasonable.

Stop with the "He's not really weak to magic" crap, he's weak to magic, no he doesn't just fall out of the sky if hit by it, but tanking say, a city-busting level magic attack, is PIS.

Of course he's not, that dumb theory (no disrespect to you op, I just really hate it when certain dbz fans claims this without much evidence).

@conner_wolf: I totally agree with your claims, but him tanking those attacks is consistent so the OPness is alive and well in Superman.

@josteinfleurme65: The thing is, some Superman-level characters have tanked as many abstract-level attacks as Superman has magic attacks, so I don't particularly trust it.

@conner_wolf: I understand, to each his own I guess.

I know what this is about lol

I personally don't think Chi is effective against Superman because I see it as life energy. Also chi isn't magic nor kryptinite so I don't see how it can harm him.

IF this is about DBZ characters VS Superman again I don't think Chi isn't going to work. The second Death Battle with Goku vs Superman when Superman walked through Goku's kameha wave to me THAT'S believable because a kameha wave is what a concentrated Ki attack of course it's not going to hurt him. ANYWAY that's me.

Yes its listed as one of his weaknesses, even says it in dc wiki written by dc comic fans

Weaknesses

• Vulnerability to Chi: Lex Luthor and Question argued that, because of Superman's solar based powers, planetary based esoteric and vital forces could have an opposite effect on him. Luthor posited that concentrated doses of such energies could severely cripple Superman and become fatal, and he attempted to exploit this weakness with the Science Spire, which tapped into the energies

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Superman_(Clark_Kent)

@houseshm: but what is the comic?

However ki is something spiritual metaphysics, it is not an energy physics

I said yes because chi is magic

Chi is not the magic, it is the basis of it.

@mazeraiii:

Good point

Even supes has chi

I know where this is going...

Well, the writer himself said so.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=4894

The city of Metropolis holds a very special position within the DC Universe. For starters, it's the home to their greatest hero, Superman. It's known as "The City of Tomorrow" and was rebuilt by Luthor and his company a number of years back using alien technology, making it a city truly on the cutting edge. Veitch introduced an added characteristic for the city, the idea that Metropolis is part of a Chi network, a very strong and powerful network of energy with Metropolis at the center of it all. Veitch noted that Metropolis definitely has many reasons for being special and that he and Edwards simply tried to offer one more reason that no one's thought of before. "With issue #5 we reveal that all the other cities in the DCU are on the Chi network, too, so there's a lot that can be done with it,"said Veitch. "If someone really wanted to follow through they could make a case that the Chi is the basis for all earth magic in the DCU which might be fun. Superman's a solar battery, so the earth/sun conflict would explain his vulnerability to magic."

The real question is: does it make a good story idea?

I think it does, in this case. It would be interesting to read a story where Superman fights a mystical martial artist whose control over chi poses a challenge for Superman to overcome.

So, yes.

ki is japanese name for chi

Ki (気; pronounced "Kee"), also known as chi, Yōki (妖気)^[1] or simply energy (エネルギー, enerugī), is the life force energy used by Dragon Ballcharacters. This energy also bears some realistic tendencies being that it is "used" in the real life martial arts, such as Kung Fu and Tai Chi.

Thread subtext too strong.

It is still really funny that people get for-real mad at Goku fighting Superman on this forum.

@saffronfighter: Your logic is faulty considering 'as vulnerable as anyone else' just means as vulnerable as you or me, meaning that one hit from something like say, Mjolnir should crush him. But just touching Mjolnir wouldn't KO him.

Karate Kid for example isn't harmed by his own Ki, neither is Iron Fist, but they can direct it to harm others.

Everyone is weak against Chi

I'd say it's the same as magic, he's not "weak" to it, but he is vulnerable to it

@saffronfighter: I didn't mean they're the same thing, just that they have the same kind of effect on Superman

@mrnoital: So in other words... he's weak to magic. Relabeling weak to vulnerable is just that, relabeling. You're trying to push away the term weakness because you don't like it, there is nothing to say there is any difference between vulnerable and weak.

@saffronfighter:I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm saying you're talking about apples and oranges here, your points have no place in this conversation. You didn't need to explain it to me. I know exactly how magic works, although Superman surviving a hit from Mjolnir... that depends how seriously Thor is treating the fight. A no-holds-barred hit from Mjolnir would outright kill Superman.

But there's some issues in what you're saying, Superman is still durable when magic interferes, yes-he still has his physical durability to take the magical attacks-but you're trying to put a deviation between magical and physical damage in a weapon. In something like Mjolnir that is simply magical metal, there is no difference between the magical damage it's dealing, and the physical damage, it is one and the same, just like say, Wonder Woman's sword. There is no deviation between the two. And magic can have a physical force behind it, does all the time.

When you start talking about will and magic in DBZ I have no idea what you're talking about, but all I hear is that DBZ characters are weak to transmutation magic.

And I don't see how any of those has to do with Superman being weak to chi.

@conner_wolf: saying he's weak to magic suggests that it effects him more than it would other people, so no, it's not the same thing, seeing as how even without him being invulnerable to it, he's still usually more durable than most

@mrnoital: Except you're pulling a definition from nowhere, that's not what weak means, and yes, it does effect him more than it would other people in his same class of power. If Superman and Wonder Woman are hit by the same magic blast, it'll hurt Superman to a large degree more, ergo, weak to magic.

Weak and vulnerable are interchangeable, any arguments over calling him vulnerable, not weak, is piddle-shit.

@conner_wolf: right

he's so weak against it, his blood can crack a magical sword

and the only people that might get less damaged by magic, have powers based on magic, but when Diana and Clark get hit by magic electricity, it sure seems to effect them the same

you got any proof of your claims?

@mrnoital: Your first scan is inconsequential. Magic just hurts him more, it doesn't weaken his physical form. You are trying to draw a connection between magic and Kryptonite, and on top of it trying to say Superman isn't weak to magic because his blood can break it... that makes no sense because that's not how he's weak to magic.

Your statement sounds like you're trying to say Superman can tank magic the same as any other attack. Martian Manhunter doesn't get damaged by magic attacks as easily as Superman. No magic for him, yet he's got as good a resistance to it as well, anyone else in his tier of durability.

I'm assuming you're trying to say that was a magical attack, I'm gonna say if it was hurting Superman the same as the rest of the JL, that's just PIS because it's ignoring his weakness to magic altogether.

are you ever going to provide proof for this or any of your claims, cause if you won't then there's no point talking to me

and no, it's not pis, it's acknowledging that he's vulnerable to it, like everyone else

@mrnoital: Dude.... your logic is such a twist-around to try and make the wording fit into your perception of the invincible Superman. Oh yeah, let me just find every scan of Martian Manhunter being hurt by magic ever to prove he's not weak to it... why don't you find a scan of Spider-Man getting hit by giant dildos to prove he's not weak to that?

No... not like everyone else, Superman is weak to magic, if someone hurls out a bolt of magic, the damage it does to Superman will be greater than everyone around him. Your logic is faulty and incredibly irrational.

@conner_wolf: so you make the claim that Martian Manhunter is more resistant to magic than Superman, but have absolutely no proof of that whatsoever?

you keep making claims with no proof to back your shit up, stop talking out your ass and show me a single instance of superman being effected by magic any more that the people near him

and no Superman isn't invincible, but you act like he's a pokemon, and any magic attack does x2 damage, which is not the case

it would be like this, a regular bullet doesn't effect Superman or Wonder Woman, a magic bullet would go through them, but you act like the magic bullet would go through Wonder Woman and blow Superman up

once again, Superman is not effected by Magic any more than anyone else, and if you want to argue against that, you're gonna need proof

if you can't do that, then we're done here