@lvenger: Hey sorry, you asked me for my opinions and why I disagreed with you on points. Here's a post I have from a while back in Tony's article which essentially mirrors your own complaints. Sorry, it's a little long :P

I feel like I've already said my piece a few times throughout different threads prior to this but I'll do so again. First and foremost, thank you for the article Tony and while I don't agree with your opinion, I still respect it completely. After all, it is your own opinion! :)

So, in a sense, I do agree with you in regards of this not being a Superman film in its entirety. Why? Because for the better part of the film or for almost the entirety of it, Clark isn't Superman yet. This is the point of the film, it's a starting point, an origin story. It's unfortunate because people seem to neglect that fact. This takes place before Clark becomes the Superman the world comes to know, that all the comic book readers and die-hard Superman fans (such as myself) have come to idolize and adore.

Which brings me to the next point. Clark is severely inexperienced with his powers, that much is clear throughout almost the entire film. He doesn't even learn how to begin to control his powers or utilize them properly until he meets Jor-El. I think it's unfair to compare this film's version of Clark to the Donner films and especially comics, the best example constantly being reused is "What's so Funny about Truth, Justice and the American Way?". As I stated earlier, this Clark doesn't have the benefit of having years of experience under his belt, he hasn't tested his limits, grown with his capabilities and been able to learn he who or what he wants to be. I mean, once he gets the suit and begins to learn the extents of his powers, he's thrusted into an alien invasion with time to breath.

As for the destruction caused and especially the controversial Zod death scene, I will have to admit here that my first viewing of the film was severely ill-received due to the latter development. I, like many people especially Tony and Mark Waid, were irked by the fact that Clark killed Zod. Although, the more I thought about it, the more I understood it and why that scene was so brilliantly written and how I applaud the writers greatly. In the comics, Superman always has some ridiculous plot device that aids him in stopping his enemies, especially those as powerful as he is. He's in a world full of spectacular people such as himself who can aid him, who have the benefit of advanced technology to imprison such beings.

With Man of Steel, none of that is the case. The last of the Phantom Drives were used up or destroyed when Faora and the other Kryptonians were sent back into the Phantom Zone. Some may argue that there possibly may have been the Phantom Drive left on Clark's "Fortess of Solitude", but that's not the case. Even if it was still operational, how would Clark be able to get Zod back across the city and have the time to utilize it? Zod was clearly showing that he was just as powerful, if not more so than Clark was with the addition of his warrior nature edging out the favour. That's why it worked here. Clark didn't have any other option of stopping Zod.

I told myself in my first viewing, "Why didn't he fly up through the ceiling, why didn't he knock his head down, why didn't he cover his eyes with his hand?" How would that aid him? Clark would potentially lose his upper hand with the choke hold and even if he did knock him out? Then what? There is not a single thing on the planet that could hold Zod or Superman. He would just get back up and start causing even more unwarranted destruction. Clark's decision to kill Zod was the only way of stopping him and protecting the billions of people on Earth from potential annihilation as it was clear that Superman was beginning to lose that fight. There is no comic book plot device that could save Clark in this situation and we see a character, one of the most iconic in the world, put into a situation with no other choice.

Which leads me to my final point that connects with all the others. Clark is not Superman yet and definitely not the one we know. I believe that decision he made is what causes him to create that unbreakable moral compass, that one moment that reminds him what he should strive to avoid at all costs in the future. To me, it feels like a behind the scenes look at what helped build Superman into the person we know and who comes to inspire humanity to be greater than itself and it's something I am sure the sequel has plenty of room to cover.

So to close things off, is Man of Steel a perfect film in my opinion? No, not even close. But it greatly succeeds in what it set out to do and I applaud the crew for not taking the liberties with the character and trying something unique and different.

Rant over :)

I had a few problems with this movie. I had been waiting for man of steel for about two years as I'm sure the rest of you were, so maybe my expectations slanted my opinion a bit. However to be fair I was also expecting disaster, which I wouldnt paint this movie as either. That being said I left this movie in kind of a funk. A key moment that really did it in for me was Johnathan Kent agreeing with Clark that maybe the bus situation should have been left alone! Wtf?!? The reason superman becomes the man he is, is because of a down home Kansas up bringing by two of the most caring and considerate people on earth (frankly something the world could use more of right now.) with a father like this (man of steel) johnathan Kent it's a wonder that he didn't do more than just kill zod and let's face it half of metropolis! Secondly while the realism appreciated the actions scenes were relentless and in your face the whole last third of the movie. The was no time to stop and take a breath to let's see, maybe forms good chemistry and character relationships! There were also a lot of holes in this story. If Krptonians have travels and set up on other planets before what stopped them from doing this right before their planet blew up? And if Zod is ment to protect their way of life why didn't he want off the planet then? Why did he want to take over and let them all stay and die? Plus in this version Krypton has a dimming yellow sun and not red, why? If the ship in the artic is from a failed and very old out post how is his super suit with the house of El crest on the ship? So many flaws so little time!

However, I did like the more indepth look at Krypton! I love it actually! It's something I've always wanted and need to see on the big screen and it was done well! Russel Crowe is a great Jor-El and the rest of the cast was top notch as well! They really made the most out of the script they were given. And I still liked superman even though this movie lacked the endearment factor a superman movie should have. I hope a sequel to this movie will bring superman a little more humanity since it won't have to do too much at once. I am glad the film made a lot of money so Justice League can happen. I hope that doesn't disappoint either. I would give this movie a 6/10 just because when you have finished a superman movie you should feel moved and inspired, I just didn't.

Well if my lack of memory serves me correctly, Christopher Reeves Superman faced a real threat only in Superman II and it was the trio of Zod, Non and Ursa. Prior to that, he was dealing with human criminal and Lex Luthor... He was already very comfortable with using his powers by the time Zod arrived.

If you can fly fast enough to go back in time...that must mean you completely mastered flying

Lack of Superman knowledge? betraying his character?

I don't see you scream when Christopher Reeves Superman did the following in Superman II

A)Crushed the hands of a DEPOWERED ZOD

B)He killed Zod by sending him to his death instead of having him put in jail. In the movie, the red light permanently removed Kryptonian powers. Why not throw him in jail instead of just killing him?

C) He watched a DEPOWERED NON jump to his death since he didn't realize he didn't have his powers. You think he would have...I don't know...caught him maybe?

D)He watched and letLois kill Ursa by punching her, which made her fall into the pit. Wow! Superman approves Lois killing villains.

In Man of Steel, there was no phantom zone, no red sunlight, no kryptonite. Zod was a trained soldier who had fought all his life and swore to kill every human. Tell me, Einstein, how would you have stopped him?

Knock him out? Sure! I'm sure you could beat Anderson Silva if you had no choice right? Even Faora easily beats him in hand to hand combat, let alone Zod.

He had just learned how to fly and his first day on the job was against Zod and his Kryptonian crew. In any other Superman media, his first day on the job is against human criminals.

Get over it people, it's a MOVIE! Nobody complained at the game Injustice. The movie is just another on Superman in another universe. This is not suppose to be the new 52 or old universe.

Can we stop describing people that didn't like the movie as fanboys? I'm NOT a Superman fanboy. I just bought my first Superman comic book ever last week! MoS was a poorly written, epic action flick that tried too hard to make things "real" but instead they were flat and boring. I'm a fan of film and this movie made we want to fast forward after Superman floated over earth in his Jesus-Pose. And stop comparing this with Avengers. That filmed embraced the impossible but it did it with charm. You can be more subtle and realistic but still keep the story and characters interesting, a la Dark Knight. There's a clear difference in what Dark Knight had and what Superman was lacking. You can change all the characters, suits or morals all you want. Just write it well. I hope they keep Snyder (awesome visuals) but get a better script for MoS 2 because I really wanted to like MoS but was waiting for it to be over towards the end.

This.

You're review was great @lvenger, even if I disagree with you on certain aspects, I can absolutely understand your point of view and I respect it.

@lvenger: Because he broke his moral code just to save humanity the very thing that rejected him as a child. Not at all. People in my theater clapped when Superman killed Zod. And when supes screamed after in agony of losing his race and breaking his code you really felt for him. My friends thought the movie was inspiring. It may not have been powerful to you but its your opinion I guess.

@deranged_midget: That's a very long post mate. Let me read it some more then I'll get back to you properly.

@comicstooge: Thanks, I appreciate it.

@lilben42:A Superman that breaks his moral code is nothing short of disappointing to me. If this is what people want to aspire, it ruly shows how little they really know and understand Superman. Especially Nolan, Goyer and Snyder's flawed interpretation of him.

Now for @gabranth

It's not clear whether he crushed them or just gave them a friendly squeeze. In any case, it made one of the most awesome Superman moments ever. I doubt Superman would seriously injure Zod

All are utterly false. He did put them in jail. In the original Richard Donner edition of Superman 2 which was released on DVD several years ago, it is shown that Luthor and the Phantom Zone criminals are taken away to prison. It's just the unfortunate editing which makes it look like Superman killed them. Go research this for yourself if you don't want to take my word for it.

Watch the aggressive tone please. I would have flown Zod out of the station, punched him away or thrown him away. Or I would have flown somewhere else where no one could be hurt by the fight and I could go all out to KO Zod. Those are just off the top of my head and Goyer had a duty to write Superman better than this

You do realise by the end of the fight that Superman is handling Non and Faora at the same time thanks to heat vision and greater experience with his powers? Contradicting yourself much?

I did complain at Injustice and I'm doing the same now. Besides there was complaints about Injustice that Superman had gone evil. Many complaints I might add. In a similar set of circumstances to the comics, there is no way Superman should deter from the core of his character. Yet this is what happens in the film. If you betray who the character is and what he stands for, you don't have a Superman film to hand. Maybe that's why they called it Man of Steel. In any case, whilst this is a decent movie, it is far from a masterpiece given how they misinterpret Superman's ethical compass.

@lvenger: Your being kind of over dramatic don't you think? I mean its not like Superman just killed Zod for revenge or because he hated him, he did it to preserve the human race rather than his own. He wasn't even thinking about himself in that moment. If you can tell me another way Superman could stop Zod without more casualties in that moment then please do. Otherwise I will continue to think he broke his moral code for good reason.

@lilben42: I have given good reasons. Flying away, throwing Zod away, taking the battle elsewhere, turning Zod around so his heat vision aimed somewhere else, covering Zod's away etc. If you wish to ignore them then I can't do anything about that. But Superman is supposed to be better than this and this version of Superman was not someone I'd want to aspire to or emulate at all. And that's what Superman is all about.

@lvenger: That's not stopping Zod that's just delaying. If Superman left Zod wouldn't follow him anywhere. Plus he is a trained fighter. Superman was at the disadvantage. There really wasn't anything Superman could do.

@lilben42: Delaying until he finds a way to imprison Zod. There's a difference.

@lvenger: The fight could be on forever really, and Zod is willing to kill civilians just to spite him. Prehaps he would even target his family next time. Both the Flash and Wonder women resort to kill too for the greater good and to protect the innocents. Batman is probably the only one, who should never kill. With the reason that he might enjoy it

@lvenger: Delaying means more casualties.

@superend: You seriously think Batman's the only one who shouldn't kill? I didn't like Nolan's Batman killing either but it was understandable why he chose to let Batman kill due to him only being human.

@lilben42: Not if he moves the battle elsewhere rather than keep it in a populated area. Look, I doubt we're going to agree on this any time soon. Shall we agree to disagree for now?

I love how Lvenger and DM can have very opposing views and yet still act civilized... Good on you, guys!

@ssejllenrad: Well @deranged_midget is one of the people I get on best with on here. To fall out over something like this isn't what I would want.

@lvenger: Sure.

Another thing I don't like about Man of Steel is what it means for the rest of the DC Cinematic Universe, if Superman, the forbearer and inspiration for all other DC heroes can just straight kill his enemies then all bets are off for all of the JLA killing the bad guy at the end, for the other films to fit in to MoS's world it means they have to be more grim and less hopeful and that's something I'm not really interested in.

@lvenger: He gave Zod's hand a friendly squeeze? LOL wut? and I believe this Donner cut was released decades after people saw it in the theaters so it's completely irrelevant.

It's about as relevant as a comic book that was released in 1986

It's still relevant because it's what the film would have been like had there not been any interference with Donner's work.

So...At the very least...It got Superman some attention.

@lvenger: No person should kill another Human being. But if a serial killer treathens innocent lives, friends and family and you happen to have a gun, you would still fire the gun at him to protect them right. You have to sacrifice your own moral, to do whats right. Which in my Opinion makes Supes more human

@superend: That scenario is flawed. There's a possibility for incapacitation which is what cops go for before using lethal force. See there's always another way to do the right thing in the most morally just way possible.

This debate is really getting annoying and to me it comes down to this Zod looks human thus it bothers them , if it was Darkseid a rock faced dude we would be shutting up right now would we, stop comparing nolans films to other DC characters to me Nolan has only cracked 2% of the DC universe if you want to compare MOS show us other DC characters on film i wont have that crap be pulled on me. Also i dont care if MOS is getting bashed yesterday a harsh reality i figured out and that was audineces even 30 years ago didnt care for the Donner films IMDB and RT look at the scores for audiences for Superman 1 and 2 and returns very very low MOS is basically the highest rated Superman film to audiences so tell me this, is this showing us that it took 30 years for the audiences to care for superman again, superman 1 is like in second place behind MOS.

Critics and Audiences have a perception in how superman should be portrayed on film, so your telling me the audiences cared for the Donner Films when they didnt this whole time i am sorry but thats saying something about how the audience feels about MOS. i mean MOS is the highest rated superman film on IMDB for christ sake this is telling you the audience themselves thought superman wasnt portryed right or one thing no one cared for the Donner Films or Superman intill 2013 to the public audiences. So even though i know MOS is a flawed movie is it after 30 years now people give a crap about Superman, wow i applaud MOS for doing that. Also stop comparing everything to Batman Begins or Iron Man get out with that crap please Superman isnt Iron man nor Batman if you want to compare superman to something wait for marvels ms marvel or something or wait for other DC heros to appear in this universe. So we have to use batman to compare everything cuase let me guess hes the only character we see DC portrayed on film correct. Get out of here with that please comparing MOS to Avengers and Dark Knight ( Dark Knight comparisons really piss me off i swear do you guys not get batman and superman arent the same freaking character. I am hearing people saying who we didnt get to see the psychology of superman , are you freaking stupid superman is a philosophical character he is not a Psychological One like Bruce

Same for when they do WW she is a Political character and some philosophical in there but moslty Political. Why are we showing hey lets see how a character with superpowers hold up to a character with no superpowers. Please just stop that BS just stop it. I am waiting for MOS 2 i am not a dude who is automatically assuming failer when it is the first film. I have said the sad reality is that no one even cared for the donner films the audience scores for the old superman films were very very low ( makes sense Star Wars and flims of sci fi like Alien came out when Science Fiction was becoming a bit darker in tone especally when Alien came out a year later in 1979) Maybe some audiences didnt care for those films because star wars was out and they expected superman or krypton for that matter to look like star wars e dont know. Now the audience care about clark now and it took this film to show that. All i have to say is what a accomplishment MOS that i give the film credit for i know sad reality that no one cared for the donner films even then and we act like for some reason they did. RANT OVER

@lvenger:

what were you taking exams for?

Before MOS my favourite Superhero movie was Avengers. Christopher Reeve superman also killed Zod and he didn't feel anything when he did but no one seems offended by that. Dont understand why there is a problem with destruction in a movie with an alien invasion. It would have been unrealistic for everything to go down and no damage was done to the city. loved the action but I can understand if some argue that superman could have appealed to Zod while they were fighting. Don't think it would have worked though if my whole purpose in life was just lost and the people I blamed were in front of me don't see why I would listen I no longer have anything to lose. I would have found it hard to believe if superman had managed to talk him out of fighting. Just glad this movie was not as boring as Superman Returns. I loved the story line in Superman Returns but it needed a different villain or Lex shoud have has his le suit in the movie.

As to the buildings being destroyed I remember people evacuating the buildings. When people did die most died in the streets running. By the time Zod and superman were fighting they were mostly empty. Some say superman could have lead the fight somewhere else. I say how if it was before when he had a chance of rebuilding Krypton he might have followed Clark if he flew away. But by the time they were going to fight all he cared about was revenge he no longer had a reason to follow Clark in changing the location of the fight, he wanted to cause maximum damage. Lastly I am ok with Clark killing Zod in that setting he had no choice. What was he suppose to do with Zod I could understand the outrage if it was someone he was able to restrain. But it was someone with military training, just as strong and fast who was hell bent on revenge. Zod or the family life is not always a fairy tail ending. Superman made a tough call but one that saved a family and potentially millions. Where would they keep Zod that he would eventually escape and start killing. Look what happened in Superman Elite he captured Atomic Scull he escaped and the first thing he did was start to kill again. Not saying he should have killed Atomic Scull just showing an example. I was ok with him capturing Atomic Scull as he could restrain him safely and killing him after already defeating him would have been cold blooded as we all know he try's to find the last drop of good in someone. But killing Zod in MOS is different Zod was not safely restrained and lives were immediately threatened.

Superman is my favourite hero but before MOS steel if there was a real invasion and I had to pick a hero to defend the earth I would have chosen Marvel's Thor at least I would feel more confident that if it came to it he would make tough decisions based on the situation. Life is not that simple were in a war you can say you will not kill 100% of the time.

@spidermanandsuperman: Philosophy and Religious Studies

@rac14:I'm afraid that point is moot. Christopher Reeve's Superman did not kill Zod. This is due to poor editing but when Donner got booted from Superman 2 and another director stepped in to fill the gap, Donner had shot a scene where Luthor and the 3 Phantom Zone criminals had been taken away by the US Arctic Police. It's on the Superman 2: Richard Donner special edition if you don't believe me. And finally, the biggest problem with that no choice scenario for me is that I could have thought of half a dozen ways in which Superman could have beaten Zod without killing him. That's what's disappointing.

@lvenger: And if that fail. An innocent life might be loss.

During a hostage situation, lethal force is viable option. And has been used before IRL to save innocent Lifes as well in the comics

@superend: Innocent life was at a loss the moment the fight started in Metropolis instead of an area away from innocent civilians.

@lvenger: BLASPHEMY how dare you have a well thought out and intelligent opinion on a movie posted on the Internet. BLASPHEMY I SAY.

I know tis such a crime on teh Internet these days :)

@lvenger: To that sir I say farewell....a until we meet again over in another thread possibly soon....so not farewell more like a walk over to another room. What are talking about ? oh look a bagel...YAY BAGEL

@lvenger: There is the possibility that the Buildings are already evacuated. I mean when the earth machine began terraforming, its best to asumed the civillians are all in the way to leave the city.

And for not taking the battle elsewhere. Supes isnt capable to do so. Zod has the same strenght and flight abillity as Superman. He could easily shove Supes back into the city.

Even in the comics, when facing a tougher opponents, destruction occurs, and even right among civillians

@superend: Not even Superman's fight with Doomsday caused anywhere near the level of destruction the fight with Zod in MOS did. Taken from this source (http://www.mstarz.com/articles/14635/20130618/man-steel-2013-spoilers-scientist-calculates-death-toll-financial-cost.htm) a scientist calculated that theoretically, "the damage in the film encompassed a one-mile diameter and that the aftermath of the attack would yield 129,000 dead, more than 250,000 missing (most of whom would also have died in the battle) and almost one million injured." Look at those figures and still try and say that Superman was more useful than not in dealing with Zod.

Are the figures based on the fights alone or are the damage by the world engine included as well?

@ssejllenrad: Ah this should answer your question - "The site Buzzfeed commissioned scientist and disaster expert Charles Watson to calculate the damage caused by the intense battle. Watson and his team at Watson Technical Consulting analyzed what would happen if Zod's "world engine," a device he places in Metropolis in the movie to transform Earth into a New Krypton, were to touch down at ground zero in central Manhattan and central Chicago."

@lvenger: Ok. Thanks for the clarification.

its a super-powered alien. i know hes sposed to have grown up in america but help me jebus

@lvenger: The military doesnt stand a chance against Zod. Supes is the only one who could stop him from commiting genocide on humanity.

@superend: And he could have done that in another way rather than betray his ethical compass and values. Or in a way that didn't cause so much damage to the city.

@lvenger: I dont think you can put the blame on superman for trashing the city, it was mainly Zod who throws him into several Buildings. Superman himself has doing the same thing to Zod.

Also I do believe Zod wanted Kal to kill him, having lost everything.

Whats alternative do suggest to deal wiith Zod, without killing him?

@superend: I keep giving them in the comments section and in the review if you'd read it. Furthermore both of them fighting was what caused all that destruction.

@lvenger: yeah i reread the thread agian. It seems your suggestion would just give Zod a delayed death. Jor-El hologram has been destroyed by Zod, and the Breeding Facility ship has already been destroyed by Kal's heatvision. Even if he tries to rebuild it (even though he has no knowledge in that area) it would take him some time. And time is not something he has, not with Zod around.

@superend: That's why I said he could have taken the fight elsewhere, worn Zod down by going all out then take him to the scout ship and slap him in a cryogenic pod.

I really liked the movie.I thought the actors did a great job and I should say that Zod was that villain that just made me cheer for him for being such a bad ass at moments.The story was good for an origin and it was easy to follow but the pace was just so damn strange at moments and I felt like this is the Superman that really should be on the big screen.One that we believe that he can actually exist and one that can save us from anything.He was just too reckless and that was the thing I hated about him.He was all about the destruction and nothing more when he was fighting but the fights were great.With that scene that you hated where Superman kills off Zod right away,I didn't have a problem with it.I know that he should've proven that even at moments like this you can be good and better but I think there was no other way to stop him.

@tdk_1997: Thanks for the comment. You show a balanced viewpoint of the film even though you like it. But as I've been saying throughout this blog, there were plenty of ways for Superman to stop Zod without killing him. Snyder was trying to go for a no choice scene but he failed in that regard given the suggestions that have been made.

@lvenger: Even though the scene wasn't really looking like a no choice scene for me it wasn't that bad and I liked it.I can understand that after you witness the near end of your new world in which you have been raised and next an inocent family's lives at stake you would snap.

@tdk_1997: Granted that would do it for a normal person. But Superman is supposed to be better than that. And that's what the film failed to show for me.

@lvenger: Well maybe SNyder wanted to show us that even when Superman is new to such things and he is exposed for the first time against such a big threat even he can make a mistake and that even the best can fail.