Should Starfire be Depowered?

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Posted by ReVamp (23015 posts) - - Show Bio

I've been thinking about this issue for quite some time. Starfire is 100 tonner, with a bit of Energy Projection sprinkled into her which makes her a threat of the level of a Kryptonian (Battle Users, don't get on my ass pwease). So its pretty safe to say that she's one of the more powerful superheroes in the the Superhero within the DC Universe, which leaves the question, why is she on a low-end street level team?

I mean, obviously there's a lot of chemistry in the book, I'm not even trying to imply that she shouldn't be on the team because I'm enjoying the three characters that Lobdell has put on the book. But lets face it, anything that'll provide any sort of a realistic challenge to Todd and Jason will pretty much be a cakewalk for Starfire. Lobdell obviously is a very good writer and I have enough confidence on his work that he'd be able to allow the team to work as it is, but I honestly don't know if it'll work with any other writer, if the book ends up changing creative teams.

Lobdell has hinted at the fact that he may be depowering Kory, because even though she's shown to still be able to use her powers, it seems to me that its quite possible for Starfire to have become less powerful than she was previously. (Not to mention that otherwise it seems that that whole bit of plot was kind of irrelevant and unnecessary).

While I obviously don't think she should be totally depowered, I'm interested to see what could be done with her if she was a 25 tonner instead, since it would obviously allow for a greater range of stories and more variety in the book.

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#1 Edited by God_Spawn (40381 posts) - - Show Bio

I say no. I think she is in a good spot power wise as she doesn't fall into Superman class like a lot of DC's heroes and villains do even though she is a class 100 she is a couple tiers below the standard. As far as story lines go, I can see where you are coming from but still disagree until we have some future ideas of what they are completely facing. Starfire hasn't done much aside lay waste to a few tanks, blow up a monster (cakewalk example) and face Crux who had to trick her to beat her even though he gave her some trouble with the ambush. Until they have a solid enemy who might have a powerhouse near equal to Kori and some street levels for Roy and Jason, we don't know. We don't know if Kori is as strong/fast/skilled as her previous incarnation as you pointed out. All we know is they are after the Untitled. Untitleds could be very different from one another. We just don't have enough info to know if they will need that power or not. It's not like some street levelers haven't been on powerhouse teams anyways in comics, it's nothing new.

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#2 Posted by ReVamp (23015 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

We don't know if Kori is as strong/fast/skilled as her previous incarnation as you pointed out

That would classify as depowerement, the question is whether it was necessary (if it did happen)

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#3 Posted by God_Spawn (40381 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp: I meant if she should be depowered down to the likes of a 25 tonner like you mentioned, should have been more specific.

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#4 Posted by BatteredArmor (6234 posts) - - Show Bio

That might be a good idea

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#5 Posted by Psyron (1515 posts) - - Show Bio

Hell no , without her powers she is just fanservice and we have too many of that. The team needs heavy power and reinforcements should they face high end opponents, and this is the DCnU after all.

Must they depower characters to get a more down to earth levels in every DC retcon?

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#6 Posted by Hazlenaut (2096 posts) - - Show Bio

I think her sister blackfire should have been and should be tech user since the idea of her character is that she is unable to fly. When she was unable to fly she was an omen to be her planet's doom

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#7 Posted by ReVamp (23015 posts) - - Show Bio

@Psyron said:

Hell no , without her powers she is just fanservice and we have too many of that. The team needs heavy power and reinforcements should they face high end opponents, and this is the DCnU after all.

Must they depower characters to get a more down to earth levels in every DC retcon?

I didn't say without powers, just less powerful. Its just that any threat that the team has, Starfire would be able to breeze through it.

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#8 Posted by papad1992 (7025 posts) - - Show Bio

She isn't a mutant... I classify the word "depowered" with the X-Men!!

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#9 Posted by sethysquare (3965 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

I've been thinking about this issue for quite some time. Starfire is 100 tonner, with a bit of Energy Projection sprinkled into her which makes her a threat of the level of a Kryptonian (Battle Users, don't get on my ass pwease). So its pretty safe to say that she's one of the more powerful superheroes in the the Superhero within the DC Universe, which leaves the question, why is she on a low-end street level team?

I mean, obviously there's a lot of chemistry in the book, I'm not even trying to imply that she shouldn't be on the team because I'm enjoying the three characters that Lobdell has put on the book. But lets face it, anything that'll provide any sort of a realistic challenge to Todd and Jason will pretty much be a cakewalk for Starfire. Lobdell obviously is a very good writer and I have enough confidence on his work that he'd be able to allow the team to work as it is, but I honestly don't know if it'll work with any other writer, if the book ends up changing creative teams.

Lobdell has hinted at the fact that he may be depowering Kory, because even though she's shown to still be able to use her powers, it seems to me that its quite possible for Starfire to have become less powerful than she was previously. (Not to mention that otherwise it seems that that whole bit of plot was kind of irrelevant and unnecessary).

While I obviously don't think she should be totally depowered, I'm interested to see what could be done with her if she was a 25 tonner instead, since it would obviously allow for a greater range of stories and more variety in the book.

I get your point, but I would love to see how this plays out. I would not mind is she is slightly depowered so Roy and Jason can get a fair share of fight. But in a case where there are mobs, there isn't really a need to depower anyone since they're just trash mobs like in issue 2.

So, its only when there is a huge threat that it'll make it seem like theres a disparity, like in issue 3 and 4. But I think Scott have done it perfectly, so depowered or not, I'm still excited to see how this goes.

Kory/Jason/Roy is the perfect team.

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#10 Posted by ReVamp (23015 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: The question is, will this be good or bad for stories in the end ?

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#11 Posted by sethysquare (3965 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@sethysquare: The question is, will this be good or bad for stories in the end ?

I guess a good writer can make it work either ways.

But given a choice, I would rather have her slightly less powerful.

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#12 Posted by nj06 (316 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think Starfire was ever a 100 tonner though. I would have put her between the 30-50 ton range in regards to her strength. And while Starfire is powerful she is/was vulnerable to piercing attacks from blades or bullets, but resistant to blunt damage. Her durability is more similar to Wonder Woman's than Superman's since she can still be hurt and isn't completely invulnerable.

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#13 Posted by ReVamp (23015 posts) - - Show Bio

@nj06 said:

I don't think Starfire was ever a 100 tonner though. I would have put her between the 30-50 ton range in regards to her strength. And while Starfire is powerful she is/was vulnerable to piercing attacks from blades or bullets, but resistant to blunt damage. Her durability is more similar to Wonder Woman's than Superman's since she can still be hurt and isn't completely invulnerable.

Yes, but she was still far too powerful for a street level team. And she was more than 50 tons. Of course, they could try to make it work, but the question is whether its worth the effort or not.

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#14 Posted by Beast_in_the_Shadows (433 posts) - - Show Bio

In the end, i don't think power levels ever matter that much in regards to the teams. I mean in some books Superman does as much himself as the whole JLA does, yet he still fights along side the likes of Green Arrow often enough.

However, I am strongly against changing a character (weaker or stronger) for sake of team dynamics. If the power difference is that important than they don't belong on the team. To change the character for temporary needs of one title is kinda lazy and selfish.

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#15 Posted by ReVamp (23015 posts) - - Show Bio

@Beast_in_the_Shadows: But in the JLA everyone at a high level, except Ollie.

This was made back when she was apparently depowered by the monster.

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#16 Posted by Beast_in_the_Shadows (433 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp: Hardly everyone. Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter are both powerful, but not to Superman's level. The Flash can be powerful in one aspect, but Superman is marginally as fast depending who is writing. And the only reason Batman is held in regards higher than just street level is his popularity and his cunning to not get himself killed as easily as other non powered characters.

Cyborg, Congorilla, Zatanna... All powerful characters, but none of them really live up to the ridiculous power level given to Krytonians.

My point being, that all of this can be ignored for sakes of a team title. If Superman can fight alongside Ollie without making the archer worthless, Then a fully powered star should be fine next to Roy and Jason. Even at the peak of her power when she was taking down full Braniac attack ships with one blast.

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#17 Posted by God_Spawn (40381 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol, wait til Revamp gets back.

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#18 Posted by cbishop (11826 posts) - - Show Bio

I haven't read a Starfire story in a long time. When did she get to be super strong?

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#19 Posted by ReVamp (23015 posts) - - Show Bio

@cbishop said:

I haven't read a Starfire story in a long time. When did she get to be super strong?

She always was. xP.

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#20 Posted by Rumble Man (11197 posts) - - Show Bio

No, might as well change her costume

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#21 Posted by cbishop (11826 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

She always was. xP.

Sheesh, I really don't remember that. I remember flying, starbolts, absorbing solar energy, being able to see farther than humans, and being a trained warrior (trained by the Warlords of Okara [sp]). I don't remember her being super-strong back in the New Teen Titans days. <sigh> I was bound to forget something, I suppose.

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#22 Posted by ReVamp (23015 posts) - - Show Bio

@cbishop said:

@ReVamp said:

She always was. xP.

Sheesh, I really don't remember that. I remember flying, starbolts, absorbing solar energy, being able to see farther than humans, and being a trained warrior (trained by the Warlords of Okara [sp]). I don't remember her being super-strong back in the New Teen Titans days. <sigh> I was bound to forget something, I suppose.

Well, to be honest I don't remember if she was shown to be such when she was first introduced, but its not something that she suddenly gained.

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#23 Posted by cbishop (11826 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

Well, to be honest I don't remember if she was shown to be such when she was first introduced, but its not something that she suddenly gained.

Fair enough. ;)

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#24 Posted by Sinestro2828 (1676 posts) - - Show Bio

Given what's been done to her character as of late, Starfire should NOT be depowered. Her power level has never been really been properly defined over the years, but if Lobdell takes away her super powers and reduces her to the same level as Roy and Jason, or takes away her rightful place as a heroine in the 100 ton class, that will be the ultimate slap in the face to her character. I mean, it makes sense for at least one member of the Outlaws to have super powers on par with Superman or Wonderwoman and the likes, otherwise the outlaws would be easy prey for super powered threats, & wouldn't be able to take on more dangerous foes. Granted, Batman takes on foes he shouldn't be able to beat and finds a way anyway, but usually he doesn't face guys like Darkseid or the likes unless he's currently working with the League.

Kory's high power level provides the team with the extra muscle they need to take on larger threats, or defend themselves against heroes who may want to bring them in, like Superman, Wonderwoman, Supergirl, etc

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#25 Posted by ReVamp (23015 posts) - - Show Bio

Kory's power level is not what it was before FP.

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#26 Posted by Sinestro2828 (1676 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hazlenaut:

I'd rather Blackfire be re-imagined more like her cartoon counterpart, i.e. someone who has all of Starfire's powers but stronger due to age and experience (makes her a bigger threat to overcome), or at the very least still have her super charged starbolts and an artificial means of flight. If Blackfire was reduced to a pure tech based villain like Luthor, that would be depressing >_<

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#27 Edited by LordOfFate (1091 posts) - - Show Bio

@nj06 said:

I don't think Starfire was ever a 100 tonner though. I would have put her between the 30-50 ton range in regards to her strength. And while Starfire is powerful she is/was vulnerable to piercing attacks from blades or bullets, but resistant to blunt damage. Her durability is more similar to Wonder Woman's than Superman's since she can still be hurt and isn't completely invulnerable.

For real, I still haven't seen this magical issue showing Kory to be Class 100. She always been super-strong but never Class 100 level, at most she is as strong as classic Rogue, which would make her about 50 tons.

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#28 Posted by COBRAMORPH (1867 posts) - - Show Bio

DC as usual misses the boat, (I say intentionally) whenever a show brings new attention to characters. Look what they did to the Question, in addition to any cross-over fans from Watchmen, after JLU makes him a prominent character, they KILL HIM OFF. He should have been put into the JLA. A made leader of a new team. But no, they killed him & replace him with Renee Montoya.

Depower Starfire? WTF? Move her over to Earth-2, & have her lead a team. Or put her on Earth-5 as part of their Trinity with Captain Marvel.

How about depower Wonder Woman, & put Starfire in her place on the JLA?

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#29 Posted by WonderHunter (131 posts) - - Show Bio

@Beast_in_the_Shadows said:

In the end, i don't think power levels ever matter that much in regards to the teams. I mean in some books Superman does as much himself as the whole JLA does, yet he still fights along side the likes of Green Arrow often enough.

However, I am strongly against changing a character (weaker or stronger) for sake of team dynamics. If the power difference is that important than they don't belong on the team. To change the character for temporary needs of one title is kinda lazy and selfish

.@Sinestro2828 said:

Given what's been done to her character as of late, Starfire should NOT be depowered. Her power level has never been really been properly defined over the years, but if Lobdell takes away her super powers and reduces her to the same level as Roy and Jason, or takes away her rightful place as a heroine in the 100 ton class, that will be the ultimate slap in the face to her character. I mean, it makes sense for at least one member of the Outlaws to have super powers on par with Superman or Wonderwoman and the likes, otherwise the outlaws would be easy prey for super powered threats, & wouldn't be able to take on more dangerous foes. Granted, Batman takes on foes he shouldn't be able to beat and finds a way anyway, but usually he doesn't face guys like Darkseid or the likes unless he's currently working with the League.

Kory's high power level provides the team with the extra muscle they need to take on larger threats, or defend themselves against heroes who may want to bring them in, like Superman, Wonderwoman, Supergirl, etc

For me, make Starfire weaker will be like the ultimate slap on her fans face. Srly. If isn't meant to be, place her somewhere else. But with a good writer, the team will work just fine.

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