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    Spider-Man

    Character » Spider-Man appears in 17252 issues.

    Peter Parker was bitten by a radioactive spider as a teenager, granting him spider-like powers. After the death of his Uncle Ben, Peter learned that "with great power, comes great responsibility." Swearing to always protect the innocent from harm, Peter Parker became Spider-Man.

    Peter Parker is being characterized like a 15 year-old doofus when he's a 30 year old and that's creepy.

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    clonesaga2099

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    #1  Edited By clonesaga2099

    No Caption Provided

    This is not a troll thread, i'm trying to generate some discussion here.

    Okay now that that's out of the way, let's begin.

    First off, I know exactly what most of you are thinking. "What is this madman talking about? Bendis's run on Ultimate Spider-Man is a great if not the greatest Spider-Man run of all time!" And I agree, it's a very good run, and so is the Ultimate run of Miles Morales.

    However, it did have unintended consequences that did tremendous damage to the Spider-Man character.

    When Bendis was writing Ultimate Spider-Man he was interpreting Spidey through the lens of a modern re-telling. Since the life of a modern teenager wouldn't have the background of the obvious social and political events of the sixties (Civil Rights movements, Vietnam, etc.) He doesn't have to think about these things, Peter has less on his plate to worry about, and since he's still in high school he gets a chance to take it easy before he has to start thinking about the future. Bendis shows this by having him instead focused primarily on getting girls, popularity, and being enamored by the super hero life style. Since Spider-Man is still a high school student in this universe he does dumb things because teens are still figuring things out and are likely to make mistakes along the way. He makes a bunch of sloppy mistakes and embarrasses himself on occasion when working with other super powered folks. We'll talk more about this later.

    Ultimate Spider-Man then went on to be a smash success with the youth of the then modern era and as a result, other people began to mimic what Bendis was doing with the Ultimate universe.

    It started off simply enough, for some reason Bendis decided the Shocker was dumb, and started using him as a punching bag villain, which went on into 616. Modern Shocker is a loser who gets no respect, even though most of his 616 history is him being a tough guy. This also is what happened to Peter Parker.

    The carefree slacker attitude was also transplanted into the 616 universe along with the fumbling that came with it. Modern 616 Peter Parker was then transformed into a version of Ult-Peter. He's now getting punked by everybody who calls themselves a superhero, and nobody likes him. He's awkward to talk to and he's a doofus.

    But here is the difference between Bendis and the modern 616, he was moving Peter away from that early characterization. Early on with his Kingpin arc, he started dismantling teen Pete's dreams of an idyllic superhero life. He begins to figure out that other superheroes are not flawless. They're just human beings trying to do the right thing, but they're mostly powerless in matters of law. He starts to realize there's more to crime than just superviallins. He learns about deep seeded corruption that he can't just be punched away. He becomes disillusioned by a broken system that rewards selfishness, and cut throat tactics and bullies who are just untouchable and the society that creates them. He draws a parallel with Flash and how people just let Flash do what he wants because he's popular, but soon when he's older he's going to hurt someone if he keeps it up. This made Ult-Peter engaging because it's a feeling everyone politically conscious has felt at one point or another.

    The Ultimates don't want to give him a chance, but he keeps working hard and soon they start to believe in him. Nick Fury does too, and it's just Ult-Cap who doesn't, until Spidey saves his butt. Spider-Man progresses as a hero, and a person. The steady change makes him exciting.

    However, modern Spider-Man does not advance, and giving him the early characteristics of Ultimate Peter makes no sense given the context of 616. Peter Parker is probably 30 something years old in universe. He's no amateur, he's been around the block several times, and he should have the experience to show for it. He learned how to socialize like a normal person in college. He shouldn't be awkward and weird around his Avengers colleagues. This characterization just doesn't work.

    Ultimate Peter could be awkward because he was the new kid on the block, and was still trying to find himself. A goofy kid trying to do the right thing was endearing because he was still a teen and he was working towards being a good man. It's not quite as endearing when he's a 30 year old man. That's why people call him Spider-Manchild. He's acting like a dude who never learned how to grow up and it's flushing all his years of development down the toilet. (I'm still mad Joe Q, you miserable jerk.)

    Peter is now regressed and stagnant, which is worse than just being stagnant. He's a complete loser, and that's the way everyone perceives him. He isn't progressing at all. Seeing a 30 something year old man act like a high school kid is cringe inducing, and honestly Superior shouldn't have ended until a Spider-Man writer who could write Peter like an adult was writing it.

    No Caption Provided

    Tl;dr: Bendis wrote a great story about a silly kid who wants to do the right thing and starts growing into adult. Slott and friends are just doing a cheap knock-off version without any of the growing up parts. Peter Parker is being characterized like a 15 year-old doofus when he's a 30 year old and that's creepy.

    Thoughts?

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    infantfinite128

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    I agree with everything in your post except it seems like your topic should be Peter Parker is being characterized like a 15 year-old doofus when he's a 30 year old and that's creepy. Leave Ultimate Spider-man alone! lol To me it's like DC blaming Watchmen for their creative decisions.

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    MarvelMan92

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    honestly Peter has been having some experiences as a hero and as a civilian. he's just alot more human. the thing is under some writers(Mostly in the BND era) he's actually been written as a complete imbecile and looking at creators like Jason Aaron, Matt Fraction, etc. i just don't know why THEY haven't had a chance to write Spider-man yet and as much as i love Bendis and some if not most of his work i just don't know why he bothered to make Peter the opposite he intended to make in his Avengers books.

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    clonesaga2099

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    @marvelman92: It's a shame, but it seems that Peter can't seem to get ahead anymore. He's just stuck in a rut, and that's boring and not endearing.

    @infantfinite128:Yeah, I can see that. I'll change the title later. Ultimate is a great comic, it shouldn't be condemned for a couple of bad copycats.

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    magnetic_eye

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    #5  Edited By magnetic_eye

    @clonesaga2099: said

    Peter is now regressed and stagnant, which is worse than just being stagnant. He's a complete loser, and that's the way everyone perceives him. He isn't progressing at all. Seeing a 30 something year old man act like a high school kid is cringe inducing, and honestly Superior shouldn't have ended until a Spider-Man writer who could write Peter like an adult was writing it.

    Tl;dr: Bendis wrote a great story about a silly kid who wants to do the right thing and starts growing into adult. Slott and friends are just doing a cheap knock-off version without any of the growing up parts. Peter Parker is being characterized like a 15 year-old doofus when he's a 30 year old and that's creepy.

    __________________________________________________

    ^^^^^ Absolutely correct 100% ^^^^^

    Ultimate Spider-Man was a great series. I'm still completing my collection because I only originally picked up Vol 1.

    Overall, I prefer the original 616 Peter Parker who over the years progressed into adulthood prior the OMD fiasco. I miss the independent, formidable and resourceful Spider-Man. I miss the mature orientated stories penned by real professional writers.

    What we have been seeing under Slott is simply a reflection of a man-child pretending to be a writer i.e. Peter Parker the incompetent man-child pretending to be a super hero and failing miserably.

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    ZariusII

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    #6  Edited By ZariusII

    Sad to think we've went a whole decade now with Peter making the worst possible decisions and acting so irresponsible and bull-headed. There's a whole generation growing up thinking this is how Spider-Man should be depicted. For every writer that grew up on someone with an adult mindset and an impeccable commitment to his family and responsibility, there are a lot more who will be content with the bad jokes and side-lining of the main character in favour of the "much cooler" toys in the box provided by Slott, who cares more about them than he ever will Peter Parker, MJ, Aunt May, Felicia or anyone else we're familiar with.

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    magnetic_eye

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    @zariusii said:

    Sad to think we've went a whole decade now with Peter making the worst possible decisions and acting so irresponsible and bull-headed. There's a whole generation growing up thinking this is how Spider-Man should be depicted. For every writer that grew up on someone with an adult mindset and an impeccable commitment to his family and responsibility, there are a lot more who will be content with the bad jokes and side-lining of the main character in favour of the "much cooler" toys in the box provided by Slott, who cares more about them than he ever will Peter Parker, MJ, Aunt May, Felicia or anyone else we're familiar with.

    ^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^

    So very true. We've seen one of the biggest misrepresentations of an iconic character ever, all for the pursuit of a few sales spikes, and cheap cringeworthy laughs, instead of substantial quality stories and respect for the character.

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    MsSelene

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    #8  Edited By MsSelene

    I wouldn't blame Bendis. It is Slott's fault for the current bad interpretation of the character.

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    shonuff33

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    Peter's always been a childish clown even before OMD, he lives to make everyone look more competent and better. Even worse, Spidey never stops talking or learns to read the atmosphere because he is a eternal rookie in a world a alpha pro players.

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    MarvelMan92

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    Peter's always been a childish clown even before OMD, he lives to make everyone look more competent and better. Even worse, Spidey never stops talking or learns to read the atmosphere because he is a eternal rookie in a world a alpha pro players.

    not really. he's always characterized as a mature person but with flaws just like everyone else.

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    Petey_is_Spidey

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    agreed

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    HighAccuser

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    Blame Slott, Quesada and others. incompetent morons.

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    Yassassin

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    Now you know how Johnny Storm fan have felt like in the past 20 or so years.

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    shonuff33

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    #14  Edited By shonuff33

    @marvelman92 said:
    @shonuff33 said:

    Peter's always been a childish clown even before OMD, he lives to make everyone look more competent and better. Even worse, Spidey never stops talking or learns to read the atmosphere because he is a eternal rookie in a world a alpha pro players.

    not really. he's always characterized as a mature person but with flaws just like everyone else.

    Never saw him mature(truly important) in crossover runs with other heroes and even then he never becomes as capable as them on any level of professionalism.

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    MarvelMan92

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    @marvelman92 said:
    @shonuff33 said:

    Peter's always been a childish clown even before OMD, he lives to make everyone look more competent and better. Even worse, Spidey never stops talking or learns to read the atmosphere because he is a eternal rookie in a world a alpha pro players.

    not really. he's always characterized as a mature person but with flaws just like everyone else.

    Never saw him mature(truly important) in crossover runs with other heroes and even then he never becomes as capable as them on any level of professionalism.

    he has like Daredevil, Punisher, Wolverine, The Fantastic Four, Hulk, Spider-Woman, Shanna, Kazar, The X-Men, Iron Man, Doctor Strange, Captain America, New Warriors, Cloak and Dagger, etc. it's just that at times like The Avengers for example he's not written well as much as most of his crossovers.

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    magnetic_eye

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    @marvelman92: said

    @shonuff33 said:

    Peter's always been a childish clown even before OMD, he lives to make everyone look more competent and better. Even worse, Spidey never stops talking or learns to read the atmosphere because he is a eternal rookie in a world a alpha pro players.

    _______________________________________

    not really. he's always characterized as a mature person but with flaws just like everyone else.

    _______________________________________

    ^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^

    I wonder just how many Spider-Man titles some people have actually read when they allege that Peter has always been a childish clown even before OMD. Long time readers know that isn't even remotely true. Sounds like something Jimishin12 used to say before he got permanently banned.

    Spider-Man used to use clever wit, humor and sarcasm which is very different from the toilet humor and silly pop culture references attributed to him by a man-child writer in recent years.

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    BlackSuit

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    That is pretty much what is happening with Spider-Man in the last decade. They try to shoehorn that doesn't belong to the character, not at this point anymore. It is like a twenty-five years old guy trying to wear a pair of shoes that he used when he was twelve and ending with callus, bubbles and a horrible pain.

    Slott have a lot of responsibility for the damage made to Peter, his pathetic incompetent and immature version never should be allowed in the ASM comic book. However, Slott didn't hijacked the comic book, he didn't pointed a gun in the face of the heads of Marvel and demanded this gig. If he is there is because Marvel editorial team wants Peter to be an immature man-child, they share the most part of the guilt. They have an irrational obsession with Peter's age led by the nostalgia and the blind desire to revive it, no matter what. It led to One More Day and all Brand New Day crap and add to the mix the hubris to admit how misguided their action was.

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    infantfinite128

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    #18  Edited By infantfinite128

    @blacksuit said:

    That is pretty much what is happening with Spider-Man in the last decade. They try to shoehorn that doesn't belong to the character, not at this point anymore. It is like a twenty-five years old guy trying to wear a pair of shoes that he used when he was twelve and ending with callus, bubbles and a horrible pain.

    Slott have a lot of responsibility for the damage made to Peter, his pathetic incompetent and immature version never should be allowed in the ASM comic book. However, Slott didn't hijacked the comic book, he didn't pointed a gun in the face of the heads of Marvel and demanded this gig. If he is there is because Marvel editorial team wants Peter to be an immature man-child, they share the most part of the guilt. They have an irrational obsession with Peter's age led by the nostalgia and the blind desire to revive it, no matter what. It led to One More Day and all Brand New Day crap and add to the mix the hubris to admit how misguided their action was.

    Great point! I've heard interviews with many writers and they feel the say way about wanting Spider-man to remain a kid. It's bizarre to me since most of Spider-man is him as an adult.

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    MarvelMan92

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    #19  Edited By MarvelMan92

    @blacksuit said:

    That is pretty much what is happening with Spider-Man in the last decade. They try to shoehorn that doesn't belong to the character, not at this point anymore. It is like a twenty-five years old guy trying to wear a pair of shoes that he used when he was twelve and ending with callus, bubbles and a horrible pain.

    Slott have a lot of responsibility for the damage made to Peter, his pathetic incompetent and immature version never should be allowed in the ASM comic book. However, Slott didn't hijacked the comic book, he didn't pointed a gun in the face of the heads of Marvel and demanded this gig. If he is there is because Marvel editorial team wants Peter to be an immature man-child, they share the most part of the guilt. They have an irrational obsession with Peter's age led by the nostalgia and the blind desire to revive it, no matter what. It led to One More Day and all Brand New Day crap and add to the mix the hubris to admit how misguided their action was.

    Great point! I've heard interviews with many writers and they feel the say way about wanting Spider-man to remain a kid. It's bizarre to me since he most of Spider-man is him as an adult.

    They've written him maturely too .

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    BlackSuit

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    @infantfinite128: Pretty much, and this obsession was what doomed the Ultimate Peter, in my opinion, he was kept for eleven years in High School and he became stale, even Bendis seemed to grow bored of him. It would be interesting to see a modern take of Peter at College, but Peter growing up was anathema for Marvel, mainly after OMD.

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    shonuff33

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    A mature Spider-Man means he has to be competent and reliable as any other Superhero in the roster, and that would make them useless or worthless because Spidey will be like Batman at that point, a mary sue who even people like Cap and Hulk can't beat. The Avengers would not be as utilized if Spider-Man had been written more professional and experienced as them in even their fields saving the city and sometimes the world/universe. Avengers made Spider-Man dialed down if anything, he can no longer be marvel's only reliable ace hero and the awnser for everything like Batman is for DC.

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    MarvelMan92

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    @infantfinite128: Pretty much, and this obsession was what doomed the Ultimate Peter, in my opinion, he was kept for eleven years in High School and he became stale, even Bendis seemed to grow bored of him. It would be interesting to see a modern take of Peter at College, but Peter growing up was anathema for Marvel, mainly after OMD.

    I think Stephen Seijic would be a great choice for a College spider-man series .

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    infantfinite128

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    @blacksuit: Yes, it's a shame. It doesn't make sense since they can have multiple interpretations running at the same time. I think everything is now just going to be a response to the movies anyways.

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    MarvelMan92

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    #24  Edited By MarvelMan92

    yeah, i mean do they really need the rights to the Fantastic Four back to restore their comics? The Fantastic Four is one of those series where you can have a fun and meaningful adventure with the Family of 6. you can make endless possibilities with them when it comes to the families' inbvolvement with the cosmic entities. now they just got rid of them because of their hissy fit with Fox. same with The X-men with their no new mutants policy despite the fact that they keep making new mutants everywhere. They even got rid of the Real Nick Fury in favor of his son who i keep forgetting was there since they're suppose to make him relevant and This Version of Nick is pretty boring tbh .

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    magnetic_eye

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    @shonuff33:

    How many Spider-Man titles have you actually read? I gather not much from what you're posting.

    90% of Spider-Man's history has been with him as an adult and he has been written maturely by many writers across most of the Spider-Man titles.

    The clownish goofball man-child of the last decade is a deconstructive OOC version forced by an editorial mandate and a man-child writer who simply don't get Peter Parker at all.

    You sound an awful lot like Jimishin 12. Weren't you permanently banned for trolling?

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    magnetic_eye

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    @marvelman92: said

    yeah, i mean do they really need the rights to the Fantastic Four back to restore their comics? The Fantastic Four is one of those series where you can have a fun and meaningful adventure with the Family of 6. you can make endless possibilities with them when it comes to the families' inbvolvement with the cosmic entities. now they just got rid of them because of their hissy fit with Fox. same with The X-men with their no new mutants policy despite the fact that they keep making new mutants everywhere. They even got rid of the Real Nick Fury in favor of his son who i keep forgetting was there since they're suppose to make him relevant and This Version of Nick is pretty boring tbh.

    _________________________________________

    ^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^

    Yeah I was pretty pissed when they cancelled FF. It's a title I have read since my childhood. Marvel really need to get their house back in order. At the moment it's a pimped out bordello. ?

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    jumpstart55

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    #27  Edited By jumpstart55
    • Agreed..Peter needs to be updated as a 30 man via personality and characterization..
    • SMH at these writers..Peter needs to be on his grown man shit asap.
    • That idea of Spidey of being a smart alec wise cracking teenager has got to be updated asap..Most people(The uninitiated)don't even think of Spidey as a grown man, and put him in the same league as the Ninja Turtles..Silly ass goofy kids.(Well Michelangelo atleast).lol That title obviously doesn't fit the other three..lol...And thats mainly becuase the Animated Shows always depict Peter as a teenager in high school..You could sell a shit load of toys and still give fans a chance to enjoy an adult Spidey cartoon..These studios act like theres no middle ground in regards to Spidey age, its like teenager or nothing..People love Spiderman and kids would certainly eat up a Spiderman show even with him as an 28 year old adult(Brand recognition is whats most important)...The Batman show depicting a 28 year Batman sold a crap load of toys.And Batman up until that point had been usually depicted in his previous cartoons as a guy in his early 40s...Plus i,m honestly getting tired of seeing kid Spidey..I don't mind the films as that's something completely different and Disney seems to be once again to be working their magic.
    • And i mean Spidey for much of his comics history was written as an adult..Think about this for a second,Peter throughout most of the 60s-90s was usually depicted as a young man between 22 and 30ish(Especially in the 90s where he was definitely 28-32).. So this idea of suddenly turning Peter into a goofy awkward adult in the 2000s seemed really bizarre to me...I get the Ultimate Spiderman influence but that should of stayed something entirely separate.
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    RabumAlal

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    @msselene: Damn Bendis, ruining comics again.

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    MarvelMan92

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    The Fantastic Four coming back into comics would honestly boost sales. but who would be able to write a fun family adventure in their first run and who would be the artist that would be able to bring them a new breath of fresh air ? i'm going with Adam Kubert and Marcos Martin as the artists but finding the right writers would be hard. could Robbie Thompson bring them a fun family adventure? infact, i was thinking that Mark Waid would bring them a fun family adventure especially a fresh return to comics.

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    magnetic_eye

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    The Fantastic Four coming back into comics would honestly boost sales. but who would be able to write a fun family adventure in their first run and who would be the artist that would be able to bring them a new breath of fresh air ? i'm going with Adam Kubert and Marcos Martin as the artists but finding the right writers would be hard. could Robbie Thompson bring them a fun family adventure? infact, i was thinking that Mark Waid would bring them a fun family adventure especially a fresh return to comics.

    What did you think of James Robinson and Leonard Kirk's run on the series. I thought they really respected the classic style of Fantastic Four storytelling with a fresh vibe to it.

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    MarvelMan92

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    @marvelman92 said:

    The Fantastic Four coming back into comics would honestly boost sales. but who would be able to write a fun family adventure in their first run and who would be the artist that would be able to bring them a new breath of fresh air ? i'm going with Adam Kubert and Marcos Martin as the artists but finding the right writers would be hard. could Robbie Thompson bring them a fun family adventure? infact, i was thinking that Mark Waid would bring them a fun family adventure especially a fresh return to comics.

    What did you think of James Robinson and Leonard Kirk's run on the series. I thought they really respected the classic style of Fantastic Four storytelling with a fresh vibe to it.

    I haven't read much of it but from the stuff i've read it's actually really great and yes even respected alot of the Classic Style of The Fantastic Four even felt alot more natural . i feel like James Robinson should return to write The Fantastic Four or at least The Graphic Novel if Waid stays on the book .

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    magnetic_eye

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    That is pretty much what is happening with Spider-Man in the last decade. They try to shoehorn that doesn't belong to the character, not at this point anymore. It is like a twenty-five years old guy trying to wear a pair of shoes that he used when he was twelve and ending with callus, bubbles and a horrible pain.

    Slott have a lot of responsibility for the damage made to Peter, his pathetic incompetent and immature version never should be allowed in the ASM comic book. However, Slott didn't hijacked the comic book, he didn't pointed a gun in the face of the heads of Marvel and demanded this gig. If he is there is because Marvel editorial team wants Peter to be an immature man-child, they share the most part of the guilt. They have an irrational obsession with Peter's age led by the nostalgia and the blind desire to revive it, no matter what. It led to One More Day and all Brand New Day crap and add to the mix the hubris to admit how misguided their action was.

    It's a pity that it was allowed by foolish men with tunnel vision. The notion that Spider-Man only works as a young goofball teen or man-child is such a fallacy and contrary to the character's long journey and history in adulthood.

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    shonuff33

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    Well it's not that making him mature would make him a better character, you think people like Deadpool or Howard the Duck because their well rounded complex characters? It's just the way they are written, and Spider-Man has to be written in a way that people accept not because he's not something serious.

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    MarvelMan92

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    @shonuff33:

    Well it's not that making him mature would make him a better character, you think people like Deadpool or Howard the Duck because their well rounded complex characters? It's just the way they are written, and Spider-Man has to be written in a way that people accept not because he's not something serious.

    Both Howard and Deadpool are JOKE CHARACTERS . they're basically just parodies mostly on themselves .

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    ursaber

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    Any chance that Marvel's writers and editors occasionally view these posts, cause it would be great that these discussions reached the ears of of the higher ups so they could change their money grubbing ways and start to listen to fan feedback and suggestions.

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    MarvelMan92

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    @ursaber said:

    Any chance that Marvel's writers and editors occasionally view these posts, cause it would be great that these discussions reached the ears of of the higher ups so they could change their money grubbing ways and start to listen to fan feedback and suggestions.

    i think you should let the people know that if it works .

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    ursaber

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    @marvelman92 said:

    @ursaber said:

    Any chance that Marvel's writers and editors occasionally view these posts, cause it would be great that these discussions reached the ears of of the higher ups so they could change their money grubbing ways and start to listen to fan feedback and suggestions.

    i think you should let the people know that if it works .

    Well I'm more than five hundred posts behind you so you obviously have more experience in this than I. That's why I'm asking, cause I don't know if it works but maybe one of you do.

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    MarvelMan92

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    @ursaber said:

    @marvelman92 said:

    @ursaber said:

    Any chance that Marvel's writers and editors occasionally view these posts, cause it would be great that these discussions reached the ears of of the higher ups so they could change their money grubbing ways and start to listen to fan feedback and suggestions.

    i think you should let the people know that if it works .

    Well I'm more than five hundred posts behind you so you obviously have more experience in this than I. That's why I'm asking, cause I don't know if it works but maybe one of you do.

    i'm just trying to see if it does. usually yes, most creators do look at these posts. so hopefully they'll listen to us.

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    tuffowar999

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    It's called a escapist cliche, basically characters more in touch with their inner child and acts like a overgrown teenager to connect to the reader to relive their young years as adults plus the benefit of basically being larger than life when saving the day. It's the most basic superhero ploy to grab fans over 13 years old read their stories.

    Deadpool from his series, the tick from his series, and Dante from Devil Mat Cry from his series are examples of this.

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    magnetic_eye

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    @tuffowar999:

    Are you friends with shonuff33 and Jimishin12?

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    TheHeaven_Guardian10

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    I blame Slott more than anything.

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