Edward Nigma is a villain obsessed with riddles, puzzles, and brain teasers, who took the alias of the Riddler to commit crimes. Riddler frequently tries to outsmart Gotham's hero Batman, but is always defeated by the Dark Knight.
Okay, aside from masterminding the 'Hush' arc, has Edward actually ever really challenged the Dark Knight? Does he have any feats worth mentioning that aren't a product of WIS?
He co-ordinated a clumsy plot to kill Catwoman with the help of Cheetah and Mr. Freeze (in When in Rome, but I don't think that's canon), but Selina still saw through it and beat his ass severely. So to answer your question, no. Even Batman has awful villains.
He co-ordinated a clumsy plot to kill Catwoman with the help of Cheetah and Mr. Freeze (in When in Rome, but I don't think that's canon), but Selina still saw through it and beat his ass severely. So to answer your question, no. Even Batman has awful villains.
Wow. I mean, when you think about, Hush was a pile of WIS. It was like a Michael Bay film - lots of action, every single major Batman villain. But when you read it two or three times, you start to dissect how entirely unbelievable it was. My biggest pet peeve, which ruins the entire story is that Riddler would not have been able to use a Lazarus Pit without going through Ra's first. Ra's guards those things like they were his gonads.
@RainEffect: Well, bats tampered with the design of the trap and got out, but I can't remember how exactly...Mr. Riddler would know (the user, not the character)
But yeah he does get his ass beaten badly most of the time,Riddle me that is the best.Though he did make Batman cry in Primal Riddle.@CitizenBane said:
He co-ordinated a clumsy plot to kill Catwoman with the help of Cheetah and Mr. Freeze (in When in Rome, but I don't think that's canon), but Selina still saw through it and beat his ass severely. So to answer your question, no. Even Batman has awful villains.
It's canon,i believe it's a tieinn to Dark Victory,Cheetah's portrayal was cringeworthy.@RainEffect said:
@CitizenBane said:
He co-ordinated a clumsy plot to kill Catwoman with the help of Cheetah and Mr. Freeze (in When in Rome, but I don't think that's canon), but Selina still saw through it and beat his ass severely. So to answer your question, no. Even Batman has awful villains.
Wow. I mean, when you think about, Hush was a pile of WIS. It was like a Michael Bay film - lots of action, every single major Batman villain. But when you read it two or three times, you start to dissect how entirely unbelievable it was. My biggest pet peeve, which ruins the entire story is that Riddler would not have been able to use a Lazarus Pit without going through Ra's first. Ra's guards those things like they were his gonads.
Especially considering the fact that Batman and Bane were blowing them up at the time.
I missed the books where he was a detective but i heard he was almost as good as Batman. also I saw a comic where he and Enigma tag teamed Dick Grayson and beat him pretty badly and he wasn't rerstrained and Damian had to come in and save him but i don't know the issue because i read it in borders instead of buying it
I missed the books where he was a detective but i heard he was almost as good as Batman. also I saw a comic where he and Enigma tag teamed Dick Grayson and beat him pretty baddly and he wasn't rerstrained and Damian had to come in and save him but i don't know the issue because i read it in borders instead of buying it
I think it was Batman #705 or 706. I remember reading that.
@entropy_aegis: What did he do in Primal Riddle that caused Bats to get teary? Wouldn't be the first time he's pushed Bats' emotional buttons *thinks back to Hush*
Didn't he get beaten by Poison Ivy once, in a fist fight?
He's possibly as good as batman in detectiving. He just wasn't as good at fisticuffs.
And he isn't an awful villain. He's great!
Well the problem is that he has been owned repeatedly even on an intellectual level.@BlackArmor said:
I missed the books where he was a detective but i heard he was almost as good as Batman. also I saw a comic where he and Enigma tag teamed Dick Grayson and beat him pretty badly and he wasn't rerstrained and Damian had to come in and save him but i don't know the issue because i read it in borders instead of buying it
Dick was taken by surprise,he was more concerned with Sensei(rightfully).@RainEffect said:
@entropy_aegis: What did he do in Primal Riddle that caused Bats to get teary? Wouldn't be the first time he's pushed Bats' emotional buttons *thinks back to Hush*
He killed some girl,i think it was his own henchwoman,either way Batman started crying.
Didn't he get beaten by Poison Ivy once, in a fist fight?
Yeah, he was in a fist fight of sorts with Ivy. More along the lines of getting his ass beaten. Wait, I take that back, he got one good hit in. Which pissed off Ivy even more. I'd post a picture of it, but its taking too long to load, so instead here's the link. http://www.comicvine.com/detective_comics_799_25/105-1488794/
He's, like, really good at getting beaten up. Batman Gotham Knights #51. Him and Hush. Oh god, I felt bad for the guy.
Didn't he get beaten by Poison Ivy once, in a fist fight?
Yeah, he was in a fist fight of sorts with Ivy. More along the lines of getting his ass beaten. Wait, I take that back, he got one good hit in. Which pissed off Ivy even more. I'd post a picture of it, but its taking too long to load, so instead here's the link. http://www.comicvine.com/detective_comics_799_25/105-1488794/
He's, like, really good at getting beaten up. Batman Gotham Knights #51. Him and Hush. Oh god, I felt bad for the guy.
Someone should post scans from Batman #489 where he wen't up against Bane.
Someone should post scans from Batman #489 where he wen't up against Bane.
I hate to sound like an expert or something (though I guess I am), but that was 490 you are talking about (least thats the one I have them meeting at). Give me a second to scan...
Someone should post scans from Batman #489 where he wen't up against Bane.
I hate to sound like an expert or something (though I guess I am), but that was 490 you are talking about (least thats the one I have them meeting at). Give me a second to scan...
Geez just one issue,cut me some slack.
@The Poet said:
@entropy_aegis said:
Poet should post scans from Batman #490 where he went up against Bane.
I remember in the dark city storyline he gave bats a good run for his money, at one point he indirectly forces a baby to swallow a ping pong ball so bats has to perform a tracheotomy on the poor child. Though i also think he was possessed by a bat demon in that storyline so that might explain why he was dark in it..
I remember in the dark city storyline he gave bats a good run for his money, at one point he indirectly forces a baby to swallow a ping pong ball so bats has to perform a tracheotomy on the poor child. Though i also think he was possessed by a bat demon in that storyline so that might explain why he was dark in it..
Riddler's greatest feat was beating Batman in "Riddle Me That", a story from "Legends of the Dark Knight", written by Shane McCarthy. This 5-part story is amazing, and it's probably the only story I can think of where Batman totally loses to the Riddler.
Sure, stories like "Hush" Riddler accomplishes beating Batman at a game, only to also beat himself at the game too. In "Dark Knight, Dark City" Batman was very lucky he wasn't killed by Riddler. In "The Primal Riddle" Batman is very lucky to get out of a deathtrap designed to have no escape. There are many instances where Riddler could have killed Batman, but really, the goal is to outsmart Batman, to beat him in a game. In "Riddle Me That" Riddler does precisely that. What's also great about this story is that it comes from Riddler's original retirement from crime, when the whole fallout from Hush left him homeless. This story shows him go from being homeless to a new, improved Riddler who abandons his old style and becomes determined to win. This version of Riddler carries on to the pages of Green Arrow - where he accomplishes getting revenge on Green Arrow & Arsenal, which is another great Riddler feat. Unfortunately, not soon after, Riddler was put into a coma during battle in the pages of Infinite Crisis, and came out of the coma having lost his riddle-crime compulsion but regained his fashion sensibility and became a PI - that is until he regained the compulsion and committed a series of murderous crimes towards the goal of regaining information about his past & then New 52 happened =(.
Because Shane McCarthy's Riddler was in between Loeb's Riddler & Paul Dini's Riddler, that version of Riddler gets overshadowed. Which is too bad, because "Riddle me That" has Riddler's origin properly told & shown.
Loeb ruined the Riddler reputation with Long Halloween, Dark Victory and Catwoman: when in rome, but all the blame can not rest on Loeb, the art of Tim Sale was a important factor too. Batman Hush was a attemp of redemption for part of Loeb, The Riddler gained the knowledge of the Batman identity, but he can't use that info in his benefit, Ra's al Ghul can use that info to his favor, Bane can use that info to his favor, Catwoman can use that info to his favor, Hush can use the infto to his favor and even Deathstroke use that info to his favor, thank you Loeb, for doing nothing productive for the Riddler
changing the subject, the ultimate death trap from Legends of the Dark Knight was a great achievement, Batman escaped from that trap, thanks to a hole in the wooden window, a little mistake can ruin everything, right?
Shane McCarty wrote my favorite history of the Riddler, he reinvented the Character without changing anything of his past, the art of the history was good too, one council, before read Legends of The Dark Knight, take a look the Detective Comics 797- 799, that was the start of the story, a good beating and humilliation can help you to lost your mind and the repressed memories can help you to recover your true self.
Loeb ruined the Riddler reputation with Long Halloween, Dark Victory and Catwoman: when in rome, but all the blame can not rest on Loeb, the art of Tim Sale was a important factor too. Batman Hush was a attemp of redemption for part of Loeb, The Riddler gained the knowledge of the Batman identity, but he can't use that info in his benefit, Ra's al Ghul can use that info to his favor, Bane can use that info to his favor, Catwoman can use that info to his favor, Hush can use the infto to his favor and even Deathstroke use that info to his favor, thank you Loeb, for doing nothing productive for the Riddler
changing the subject, the ultimate death trap from Legends of the Dark Knight was a great achievement, Batman escaped from that trap, thanks to a hole in the wooden window, a little mistake can ruin everything, right?
Shane McCarty wrote my favorite history of the Riddler, he reinvented the Character without changing anything of his past, the art of the history was good too, one council, before read Legends of The Dark Knight, take a look the Detective Comics 797- 799, that was the start of the story, a good beating and humilliation can help you to lost your mind and the repressed memories can help you to recover your true self.
Yeah I agree Shane McCarthy did the best writing for Riddler.
I wouldn't give Loeb too much heat though. I think he wanted to follow up on "Hush" but it went to another writer, so instead of Riddler finding a way to use Batman's identity, he ended up on the run from Hush when Joker failed to protect him, & then went to a miffed Poison Ivy who made Riddler feel like an inadequate villain & all that leads to the best Riddler story ever written by Shane McCarthy (overshadowed by Paul Dini's attempt to make Riddler like Sherlock Holmes). "When in Rome" is still a great story, showing how far he'll go to find out Batman's identity. "Dark Victory" & "The Long Halloween" only had a little bit of Riddler, but the scene where Batman looks for him in the bar & beats up his henchmen was amusing, & how Riddler lures Catwoman to a trap when she threatens him in the bathroom was also good.
Had the New 52 not happened I kind of wonder if Tony Daniel's Riddler was to have remembered Batman's identity upon discovering his old criminal files. I kind of felt that may have been the intended direction. It's too bad we'll probably never know. I hope they actually use Riddler in the New 52, and use him well (I know he appeared in Batman 1 but it was just a cameo).
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