TheOptimist

@InfamousFish said:

I like the Miles as the new Ultimate Spider-Man, and I think it is going to be interesting in how they do this.

I must say, I'm often a not-a-fan-of-Bendis kinda guy, and I didn't like that they were breaking the "promise" (tic) they made not to have the two characters ever meet... but I like Miles, a lot from the bits I've seen of him... I've kinda got hopes for the Spider-Men series... although the price tag is keeping me away at the moment, the rumored $5 voucher deal might let me give it a chance for free, at which point I'll at least have a launch pad to judge the rest of the series.

The general solicitation does not have any information, but the DC website does continue to feature mention of a backup, still as drawn by Gary Frank, so presumably the story will continue. At this point I see no reason to assume otherwise... I don't recall any mention of how long exactly the Shazam feature will last, but I would assume that it won't carry on for too much longer past that point, hopefully it will be launched into its own separate title and the book will either find a replacement backup, an expanded page count or supplemental material.

@TheAnnihilator said:

@TheOptimist: Oh, I thought you just mean this topic. Some other comicvine threads have some serious homophobia going on.

Personally it doesn't bother me because I'm not a big fan of the character, but it just feels like a cheap move on DC's part.

I can definitely see that point of view... particularly in this age of internet news, it seems to have exploded to an insane degree... the difference that has colored my perception was the way the story broke, which was actually through fan response rather than with purposeful announcement... in fact, the news came so close to the release of the issue that it surprised me, given the recent tendency of these stories to be announced quite far ahead of the publication element... we've known about the Astonishing development for... ever... and the announcement of things like Before Watchmen and the New 52 came so far in advance of their publication that they predated even the solicitations by months... I felt that this announcement arose rather organically and was somewhat put at ease by that point. It could have been a well designed setup for this exact scenario, but I've decided to take the point of view that it was not, and that if it had not been raised as an issue at Kapow! that we would've made the discovery upon the publication date.

I will also say that, while I'm somewhat exhausted of the usage of the media to draw attention to 'special event comics' (I admit that I mostly feel this resentment regarding Marvel's tendencies to announce such revelations of character changes/deaths/resurrections) that I also understand that they are kind of what are needed in today's media-frenzied world... we've got to get the word out, and I applaud the efforts to do so... so far they've led to fruitless one-shot wonders, but I applaud the intention... even though I do agree that in many respects it cheapens the overall efficacy of the product. I'm not sure how to find a happy medium between the two necessities (the "free advertising" afforded by such hot topics and the quality of stories themselves) but I feel like there is one. Again, I'll refrain from complete judgment until I see how it plays out in the pages... if it makes for beautiful storytelling that doesn't corrupt my inherent perception of the character, I'll probably be supportive of the act. For many readers that alteration may be a dealbreaker (some out of homophobia, many more out of the listed disdain for such unexpected changes) but in time I can't see it being a destructive element to the character, nor his fanbase.

To flip the coin a bit, one of my favorite characters (Cylcone, see avatar) was long rumored to be a lesbian who had not revealed as much... I strongly objected to this, on non-homophobic grounds but on the basis of my perception of the character in the same manner that Alan's fans are presumably doing at this moment. I would've been disappointed if that revelation had come to pass (even if it had been planned from the very start) in part because it would've distorted the view that I had placed upon the character, that I had derived from my own reading. That would have slightly diminished my overall appreciation of the character, merely because of a gut reaction to having been wrong... however, I would've continued to love the character on the whole and would embrace the new status quo as her reality and would proceed from there.

@etamogrey77 said:

seriously i love the character but people hate him. why do you think that is?

My (incredibly baseless) assumption would be due to the character's connection to "the original Captain America" which some fans (IIRC) were quite irate about upon initial publication... while I haven't sensed any hostility concerning the character, I would assume that such feelings might be derived from that point.

Personally, I quite like the character and have found most others with whom I've talked to be of the same persuasion.

Also, for every character there will be a fan who strongly dislikes that character, so I'd chalk some of the "hate" to that phenomenon.

@TheAnnihilator said:

@TheOptimist said:

Well, the sad thing here is that there is still plenty of evidence that there is a hefty amount of homophobia still circulating in the general comic fan community, which is a shame... not a remotely surprising revelation, but a shame nonetheless... on the plus side, it does seem that there are a number of vocal readers who share a positive light on the issue, which is a significant growth from the "just keepin my mouth shut" trend that dominated us not all too long ago... I guess for once the anonymity of the internet services both sides of the equation... thanks to the users who are standing up against homophobia, no matter the degree of its hostility or presence...

Now, a degree of this, particularly among the emotionally reactive fans (who need not be named, they're rather self-evident), is simply a consequence of what we already know about comic book fans, that many are violently opposed to change, while simultaneously demanding it... the unfortunate element is that it then locks in step with classic lines of homophobic responses... so even if the speaker is well intended, they actually further damage their credibility by the phrasing of their responses... for instance, "I don't have a problem with the gays..." is not generally going to lead to any kind of remark that will then be well received by the intended audience, because of the historical experience of such comments... so if you're truly not homophobic, I would encourage you to take a little more time in your responses, to actually consider how they might be received... a logical, coherent statement that expresses opinion is certainly not something to be discouraged, but I'd like to suggest that we approach discussion with an open mind, a respectful voice and a consciousness of the undertones of our language.

For instance, working through some of these responses, there are some interesting points that I'd like to discuss with people, but dropping of expletives, the preemptive disregarding of conflicting opinions and even defensive stances make my completely unlikely to want to converse with those voices...

And as always, let us remember that the story is always unfolding. Things are going to change. That can be a wonderful thing, that can be a horrible thing. But let us see how it unfurls before we cast too harsh a judgement on what comes. And remember, your free will, imagination and creativity is never trumped by the published page.

Right. Because people disliking the fact that they changed a character with decade's of history's sexuality, thus immensely changing the character all in a cheap move to follow Marvel's gay marriage issue, makes them homophobes. Although, I do agree that some of the posts that irrationally use foul language can come off a bit homphobic, but real homophobes are much meaner about it and much less subtle.

Respectfully, at no point did I say "people disliking the fact that they changed a character decade's of history's sexuality, thus immensely changing the character all in a cheap move to follow Marvel's gay marriage issue, makes them homophobes".

What I said was "that there is still plenty of evidence that there is a hefty amount of homophobia still circulating in the general comic fan community, which is a shame". I even followed it with a statement that people have "interesting points that I'd like to discuss with people" and believe that people have a right to their own opinions regarding the changes.

However, my references were to those sources (of note, many of which are drawn from other sites, again as I referred to the general fan community rather than the comicvine community) who have said things like "The gays are ruining my comics, [censored threat]", "What Alan Scott needs for next christmas is maybe a gift of magic uterus from new earth 2 Santa Claus or the Uterus Fairy", the comparison of homosexuals to pedophiles, and the like, which I think we could all agree qualify as homophobic. I've refrained from citing any users of this site, but there has been a comment or two that has made me mildly uncomfortable and irate with regards to the treatment of other human beings. Unfortunately, there are real homophobes who read comics, and there are even those who are in a middle ground who don't quite know where they stand or how to express their ideas... I was merely expressing the hope that we would (as an aforementioned brighter example of a less brutal community of users) maintain that respect even as our opinions differ.

I don't have any problems with Alan Scott being gay, in fact I rather enjoy it. I also respect anyone who disagrees with me and don't have any problems with them doing so, as long as (just as with any other discussion) they do so in a respectful manner. I understand and appreciate the reaction that many people have to the changes, particularly those citing their trouble with accepting such a change given the character's history. Despite the fact that I do not feel the same way, their emotions make sense and I do not intend to diminish their reactions at all. If anything I would like to hold an open discourse with them to (if they are so willing) find some common ground through which they can continue to appreciate the character that they have invested in so extensively in the past.

I'm hoping that open minded people will look for ways that they can enjoy comics, express their frustrations to an understanding community and continue to develop a better society and world for us to live in.

Yeah, Aquaman and Justice League Dark were actually my favorites of the week...

Well, the sad thing here is that there is still plenty of evidence that there is a hefty amount of homophobia still circulating in the general comic fan community, which is a shame... not a remotely surprising revelation, but a shame nonetheless... on the plus side, it does seem that there are a number of vocal readers who share a positive light on the issue, which is a significant growth from the "just keepin my mouth shut" trend that dominated us not all too long ago... I guess for once the anonymity of the internet services both sides of the equation... thanks to the users who are standing up against homophobia, no matter the degree of its hostility or presence...

Now, a degree of this, particularly among the emotionally reactive fans (who need not be named, they're rather self-evident), is simply a consequence of what we already know about comic book fans, that many are violently opposed to change, while simultaneously demanding it... the unfortunate element is that it then locks in step with classic lines of homophobic responses... so even if the speaker is well intended, they actually further damage their credibility by the phrasing of their responses... for instance, "I don't have a problem with the gays..." is not generally going to lead to any kind of remark that will then be well received by the intended audience, because of the historical experience of such comments... so if you're truly not homophobic, I would encourage you to take a little more time in your responses, to actually consider how they might be received... a logical, coherent statement that expresses opinion is certainly not something to be discouraged, but I'd like to suggest that we approach discussion with an open mind, a respectful voice and a consciousness of the undertones of our language.

For instance, working through some of these responses, there are some interesting points that I'd like to discuss with people, but dropping of expletives, the preemptive disregarding of conflicting opinions and even defensive stances make my completely unlikely to want to converse with those voices...

And as always, let us remember that the story is always unfolding. Things are going to change. That can be a wonderful thing, that can be a horrible thing. But let us see how it unfurls before we cast too harsh a judgement on what comes. And remember, your free will, imagination and creativity is never trumped by the published page.

They're both fantastic, but in different way... Flash is (wait for it) a little faster paced, while Aquaman is very arc driven... there is a lot going on in Flash, but while Aquaman is a slightly slower burn, it is really building the mythology of the character in an awesome way...

There hasn't been extensive coverage on that, presumably because most of the minis have been tied in as part of the new universe. The Shade has referenced I, Vampire, so it can be assumed to be in continuity... I don't see any reason why Penguin or The Ray couldn't be considered part of continuity... THUNDER Agents I couldn't tell you, because of the erratic timeline of superheroic appearances... same thing with Night Force... but I'd just loosely assume that everything is Post Flashpoint canon unless otherwise stated.

@Dernman said:

I should be upset because I'm not a fan of changing things like this but I'm not. They just have to find away to include Jade now. I actually wouldn't mind if she wasn't his daughter and was in Earth 0/Prime so she could be with Kyle. I don't give a two figs about Obsidian honestly.

That would actually be closer to my ideal of the situation... I'd love for Jade and Obsidian to exist (and be brother and sister) but have no relation to Alan. I'm certain that I'm a minority there, but alas, I am.