@gearsecond659: Alright Prince of Bel Air, round two incoming! This post will be a lengthy reason why Hulk will do the following...
Now, in regards to strength, I am going to have to assert that Hancock is physically stronger than the Hulk. And no, I am not talking about striking strength because in that department, there simply aren't enough feats to make that conclusion, but in terms of raw strength, you can't deny Hancock is stronger.
Hancock is physically strong, but he's no Hulk. He simply doesn't have enough material under his belt for you to back up this claim, and to add to that the only noteworthy material he does have displaying his strength has not been against an actual opponent - not even close to say he surpasses that of of Hulk's caliber in this department, as I'll demonstrate throughout this post. The reason why a degree of strength against someone else should be shown is to determine how well Hancock can put it to use in a fight.
Now you may discount this feat because it isn't traditional striking strength, but remember, Hancock frequently engages in bullrushes mid combat. Just look at his fight with Mary as an example. So in that context, this strength feat is perfectly valid. And remember, this feat was achieved without momentum. But combined with his insane amount of speed, Hancock can deliver devastating strikes (more on that later)
I won't completely discount the feat, as it is a good measure of Hancock's strength and perhaps durability- not striking power by any means. The way Hancock stopped the train was by lunging shoulder first into it, not using his fists, elbows or any other way that may be a good example to gauge the power of his punches. If a door is locked and you throw your whole body weight shoulder first into it, you'll likely be able to bust it open depending on your strength - but by punching/elbowing it? Generally not very plausible.
This is essentially how Hancock stopped the train, by putting his full body weight into it. It's very doubtful him punching it would have completely stopped it as it did, dented perhaps but then again John rarely if even at all throws a punch in the movie. For this reason it's possible his aren't very effective. I could be wrong, however it's practically impossible for you to present a case without speculating.
In regard to the whole bull-rushing tactic, he doesn't really do it as frequent as you're saying as there was literally no instance where John or Mary effectively bull-rushed one another in their tussle. It started with Hancock taking off and Mary catching up to him mid air, then when they fought in the midst of the storm they sprinted at each other on ground with no spectacular speed involved. The whole fight itself had no coordination, it was simply them wrestling/grappling each other while flying and crashing into buildings - neither of them had any display of legitimately rushing the other with the extreme strength, power and speed like you're saying.
The feat of the train itself is still a good showing of his strength, but it's really all Hancock has to show for himself where as Hulk has a good few, consistent showings of strength to put him above John - key difference being in combat scenarios. I know he stopped the train pretty much effortlessly too but this can't used to scale him against a moving target who can handle this force. Hulk actively engages in and has solidly shown capabilities in the departments Hancock is lacking - it's now time for more Hulk action.
I couldn't find any GIF's for his only two feats in this scene, so i'll just post the opening video.
In this next video, he fights Tony piloting the Hulkbuster armor - he loses, but still shows incredible feats.
From the events of this battle alone there is nothing I can see from Hancock's arsenal that shows his strength is sufficient in matching the Hulk's nor even hurting the Hulk. It'll take a lot more than a standalone, non-combat relevant instance of stopping a train with the force of his body to show he's capable of inflicting the amount of punishment Tony did to him here. John didn't show any significant strength feats in his battle with Mary, a few decent shout outs to his durability yes - but at this point it's fair to say I've already shown that Hulk has easily shrugged off what John has times ten and carried on without any sign of issue.
I would wager Hulk could've won against Tony's Hulkbuster, had it not been for Veronica to back him up for repairs and distractions as well as having to sucker punch him in order to knock him out. Nevertheless, the fact he was able to tear apart Tony's most robust and durable armor to the point he required Veronica is enough to stick Hulk above Hancock in sheer strength and power. Iron-Man's lesser armors have demonstrated the ability to take blows from the likes of Ultron and Thor.
In fact, Iron-Man's Mark 45 took the impact of a city-level explosion from Sokovia head on and wasn't even dented.
There's this and plenty of other showings to take into account, but the main point is that the Hulkbuster skyrockets above these armors and Hulk was able to damage it to the point of Tony needing backup repairs. Among some of his more feats in this movie, he casually tears through Ultron's vibranium armors and at 3:40 in this following video, launches Ultron himself into the air with a punch.
Feel free to watch that video for more of his abilities in that movie, if not, at least I've pointed out the main bits. In Ragnarock, Hulk ends up battling Fenrir, an oversized wolf and he is able to swing it Fenrir by it's tail with ease.
And eventually in order to put an end to Hela, Loki summons Surtur to destroy her. Surtur is a humongous demonic being who wipes out Asgard entirely, and despite being flicked away Hulk was still able knock the demon off balance.
Both Fenrir and Surtur are beings much larger than the train Hancock stopped, as well as being more capable and actual living beings. Hulk's strength was at least enough to stop and swing Fenrir, as well as knocking Surtur back for a few moments. All in all, combined with what I've shown of Hulk ripping apart and beating down on Tony's most durable armor to date, throwing Thor around with ease and everything else shown for him thus far - it's more than safe to say Hulk's strength puts Hancock's to rest. By having better, more consistent physical/striking strength and raw power feats against legitimate opponents - Hulk takes the strength game.
Now, onto the speed department of this battle, which is a factor John arguably has that is outmatched by Hulk's everything else.
In terms of speed, I would argue that Hancock stomps the Hulk, to the point that there is really no way for Hulk to react to or even tag Hancock.
As stated before, Hancock frequently engages in bullrushes during combat so Hancock, so I will be taking a look at Hancock's travel speed.
Yes, Hancock has significant travel speed over Hulk, however I've already refuted the fact that Hancock does not in fact bull-rush his opponents as often as you say. Him and Mary chased and grappled one another then clumsily crashed through buildings, no speed-blitzing/rushing of the sort from what I could see - their fight has nothing on Hulk and Iron-Man's.
Now if you want evidence of Hancock using this speed during combat, look no further than Hancock bull rushing roberts at FTE speeds. It was likely he was holding back as well as if he was going all out, he would have killed the robbers.
This is literally the only instance of him rushing somebody, and it's not even a genuine in-the-midst of combat kind of feat. The thugs weren't even aware of what was going on and so it's inaccurate to say he could do anything like this to a completely aware Hulk. Being able to effectively blitz petty thugs <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< being able to effectively blitz Hulk.
Also, he wasn't faster than the eye, you can see a glimpse of him flying through both times he grabs the thugs, he was just fast enough to make it out the other side before Roberts could properly turn around. Either way, this is not something done in the middle of a fight, it was simply in a hostile scenario against thugs that were unaware of what was going on, there's a big difference.
Now, let's talk about reaction speed for a second.
If by some miracle Hulk reacts to Hancock (which is very unlikely), in addition to being able to move at speeds surpassing the speed sound, he is also able to react at speeds surpassing the speed of sound.
This was best exemplified when he maneuvered around a plane while moving at high speeds. When considering that Hancock was moving way over the speed of sound at this point, reacting to a plane while flying this fast is very impressive.
It's clear that Hancock had seen that plane coming a distance before he was close, not very comparable to Hulk trying to punch him repeatedly multiple times in the face up close. I've shown Hulk's capability of tagging anyone that can fly just fine, and in the fight with the Hulkbuster he was up close with Iron-Man exchanging blows faster than I've seen Hancock throw a punch or the like.
It's at 2:36 - 2:48 in the video I posted, Hulk was nailing Tony with punches until he was thrown through the building but he reacted quick enough to grab onto a ledge and swing himself instantly back to Tony, commencing with blow after blow again. Hancock can fly fast but his fights are completely sloppy as its just him and Mary constantly in a grapple flying through buildings - literally no showings of reacting, throwing punches, kicks or any sort of other attack as fast as Hulk can. Hulk will have no problem getting in his face at all times, he has the reactions and attack speed over John - as well as leaping to stay airborne.
The height Hulk can jump at is immense too, and speaks for it self here honestly (3:07 - 3:18).
The problem with Hancock's speed is the serious lack of it when taken out of the context of him flying, to which even if he uses that in battle here, there's no telling how strong it would be nor would it be even close to say it would put Hulk down. Hulk will tank it head on should John use this but the only way you can argue for it's actual effect on Hulk is based off speculation. He only managed to use it well on powerless criminals, which wasn't even in the middle of a fight - nor a fight with the likes of Hulk.
Thus, Hulk really has no way of reacting to a potential FTE bullrush from Hancock or a way of tagging Hancock with his supersonic + reaction time.
It's not reliable at all to declare him supersonic in the slightest if he saw it from a decent distance away, it's not like he reacted when the plane was almost in contact with his face so this argument is null. I have shown Hulk's reactions and the speed he fights at to be faster than Hancock's, who fights by flying into buildings and being overall badly coordinated - Hulk won't have problems with speed here.
In terms of blunt force durability, Hancock is actually very impressive.
He definitely is, but Hulk has outperformed him already in durability at this point and has the power to put him down.
He was no sold flying through a road side at high velocities.
He tanks being smashed with a truck with really no damages at all.
Collides with the top of a mountain before crashing onto the street at very high speeds.
Is sent through multiple structures during his fight with Mary and tanks that with ease.
I've shown Hulk has went through all of this and worse against Tony's best armor, with literally no effect from any damage apart from taking a few seconds to emerge from the rubble of an entire building and was about to continue to fight. This combined with all other durability feats shown from Hulk puts him above what Hancock has tanked comfortably, Hulk still has more to come momentarily.
And as said before, he practically no sold being hit by a speed train.
Hulk being forced through an entire building after laughing off the previous damage taken a lengthy battle with Tony's best suit alone outshines anything Hancock did in the movie. Even if we exclude those two feats from both sides, the rest of Hancock's durability feats just about match Hulk's as of the the original Avengers movie - but this is not to include the rest of what he has to offer.
For some reason the actual full fight itself is not available, but here's the majority of the rest of it. Throughout their fight in the arena, Hulk tanks very powerful attacks from Thor throughout it and although he won unfairly, the main thing is that he's still left standing after everything Thor dished out on him is what's relevant here - as well as the blows he got on Thor.
And last but certainly not least, despite being KO'd after a few seconds- Hulk manages to tank a few hooks from Thanos. The quality of this GIF isn't great but you can make out what's happening, it's the only one I could find from a thread on this forum.
While he was made short work of no doubt, the fact that Hulk was taking at least a few hits from Thanos w/ the Power Stone is a very impressive feat on it's own. The Power Stone is known to enhance the user's overall stats, abilities, and power. In Guardian's of the Galaxy it had shown the capability of wiping out planets with ease and generally having extreme potential. Thanos is also seen some what shifting a moon or at least influencing it in some way with this stone, and Hulk could at least take few slaps before going down. Before this, he attacked Thanos and although he wasn't hurt - it's credible enough to say Hulk was able to drop him being augmented.
I'm not saying the Power Stone puts Thanos' fists on planetary/moon level either in the slightest, I'm just putting it out there what the stone is capable of so it is clear that it's able to enhance the user's abilities enormously. For Hulk's punches to be able to drop Thanos w/ the stone and last a few seconds in combat with him is still something worth mentioning here.
With all of this being said, Hancock is more than capable of tanking hits from the Hulk. I mean he no sold being hit by a speeding train for Christ sake. And again, this is assuming that Hancock is even going to get tagged by the Hulk.
The problem here is that you're going to base a vast portion of your argument around that train feat, and while it is impressive, there's been plenty more material I've said for Hulk that has proven him easily capable of replicating that feat.
The difference that gives him the advantage here is his feats are based on fighting actual opponents of this size and/or bigger, tanking attacks and damage of this caliber and much more without even being KO'd (plus he continued to fight) - in short, generally having more consistent, reliable, and applicable feats as a combatant. It's hard to keep using the train feat to measure how hard John could hit when he never replicated that strength in battle. This isn't to say the feat shouldn't be used, but it isn't consistently used nor is it enough to become a very comparable feat to what Hulk has going for him is what I'm saying.
Hancock casually stopping a speed train with a shoulder bash plus high speed velocities equals a bullrush equivalent if not superior to an attack from Mjolnir.
A train does not exceed the hammer in impressiveness in any shape or form. Mjolnir is essentially an unstoppable force unless you can wield it. I'm not suggesting it will destroy everything, but it's a challenging obstacle to overcome if you're on the other end of the stick especially when wielded by Thor - here's an idea of the power it has shown to be capable of.
I'm not going to put time stamps on this one, but everything I list is shown in the video below.
There's more action in that video but those are the goodies, I'd say that's sufficient to suggest it's more impressive taking a full on hit from Mjolnir to the face rather than stop a train - it's at least shown more raw, destructive power and capabilities. A difference here is also the fact that Hancock was completely expecting that train, where as Hulk wasn't exactly ready for a wallop off Thor.
It has also broken through Loki's cell in the helicarrier allowing Thor to escape, which was built to contain Hulk himself.
This logic is very shaky to say the least. The Chitauri weren't breaking sound barriers like Hancock was. I think you are forgetting the speed of Hancock's flight.
That's true, but here's the following factors to take into account for this.
Ehh no. Hulk dented the metal on the Leviathan's head. That was the only thing accomplished with Hulk's raw striking strength. The rest of the damage was accomplished because of friction from the ground helping Hulk to slow the Leviathan down and causing the Leviathan to curve in on itself.
It was more than simply denting the metal if the whole Leviathan toppled and caused it's armor to start breaking apart. This was only the instant Banner transformed into Hulk as well, not when he was completely up and engaged in battle. This feat is debated often for some reason, but either way, Hancock still hasn't a single striking feat on even this alone.
This is an oversimplification. Hulk was pushed back by the Leviathan while Hancock no sold a speed train. Hulk also only destroyed a portion of the Leviathan's head with his raw striking strength.
The Leviathan was also much bigger than said speeding train, but needless to say, I've provided more than enough material to show that Hulk has outclassed this train feat by now. This is literally one feat in comparison to Hulk's many. It's not your fault since there isn't more material for you to access obviously, but it's just insignificant when faced with feats just as good and better.
LMAO! The only reason it took him a few moments to get out of the trainwas because he was literally stuck inside the train. That was how much damage he caused to the train lol.
Indeed but Hulk toppled a being much larger and more destructive than this train (the Leviathans merely brushing off skyscrapers when passing them was enough to take them apart) - among Hulk's many, many more feats.
Umm, what? We are looking at end of movie Hancock, and in the feat I showed in the speed section, he was able to apply his speed in combat perfectly, moving at FTE speeds and using just enough force to subdue the robbers but not kill them. That isn't sloppy. He may have been sloppy during the beginning of the movie, but by the end of the movie he was a lot more skilled.
He was sloppy when fighting Mary, all they did was fly through buildings and were simply all over the place. I'm not trying to low ball them either, because the majority of the fight was just quite literally them crashing into things. Hulk does crash into things but he's able to bounce back straight away and go for his target very quickly, Hancock is just faster at travelling in a straight line.
Anyway, I've covered how Hulk has more than enough on his plate to counter any possible attack of this sort.
Thus, Hancock wins this fight due to his superior speed and strength. Hancock, with a casual shoulder bash, stopped a speed train, severely damaging it. Combine this power with his insane FTE travel/combat speed and you have the bullrush to end all bullrushes that I am not sure Hulk can tank. He maybe, MAYBE able to tank one bullrush from Hancock, but a few more and Hulk is out. In addition, Hulk isn't going to be able to react to Hancock as he was never reacted to FTE enemies and has been blitzed by far slower opponents. And even if Hulk can react to Hancock, Hancock's supersonic + reaction speed ensures that he won't be tagged at all by the Hulk.
Your argument for Hancock winning is relying on one feat of strength and that's the problem. I'd let that slip if, say, Hancock was shown smashing a planet in two, as I have nothing to show for Hulk that would say he could tank that. The problem is Hulk has several showings of taking attacks that are stronger than said train, from more powerful/bigger/stronger beings than this train, and has dealt this same amount of damage as train would cause multiple times over to these said beings and more.
So, in summary....
That took a while, phew glad that's done, your move man :)
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