Old_Chris

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#1  Edited By Old_Chris

@TheAcidSkull said:

Considering the track record hulk does things like that all the time, breaking through a time storm, mustering enough force to light up a dimension, holding a microcosm together, Tanking blows from galaxy master who had in fact desroyed planets before. And etc.

So it's by No means Pis.

In fact, thor does crazy things to and sometimes is hurt by much much weaker forces, but i don't say that it's PIS on his part.

in fact i wouldn't bring that up in particular.

Not saying some of the ones you named are particulary PIS, but a lot of Hulks high ends are.

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#2  Edited By Old_Chris

@GreenScar1990: You just keep doing that. Continue to claim Hulk and Thor are equals despite all the evidence to the contrary.

And you know, from what I see the only real reason why your even claiming that is not based on actual overall power sets and abilities, but rather all the times where Thor is holding back, never using any of his powers, and just brawling. If that's the case, then it truly is biased fanboyism at its best.

That is not proof they are equals. That is proof that Thor needs to constantly hold back and forget everything that makes him powerful in order to make Hulk appear their equals, which kind of leads on to when I actually presented abilities Thor can use to easily handle Hulk at anytime, Hulk seemed to greatly pale in comparison, which then lead on to you constantly ignoring them and continuing to repeat the same crap because you can't handle the truth.

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#3  Edited By Old_Chris

@GreenScar1990 said:

Once again, Old_Chris, you toss everything I said aside in favor of your own opinions and beliefs.

Thor beat Hulk in Fear Itself? Right. As in collapsing face first after delivering his most powerful shot to Nul-Hulk. And I would hardly call Nul-Hulk an amped version of the Green Goliath. There's nothing that Nul-Hulk did that a pissed Savage Hulk couldn't have pulled off.

And Hulk doesn't far well against magic? What do you call withstanding powerful blasts and getting cannonball sized holes punched through you by an Omega-level mystical demon like Zom, who sends Sky-Father level beings like Dormmamu and Umar running? And I hate to tell ya, but Thor hasn't fared well against magic either. Hulk has withstood some very powerful magic from beings equal or way above Thor's level.

And what about KO'ing Thor in Incredible Hulk Annual 2001, the very same comic Thor blasted Hulk with lightning and the very same one that Hulk buried Thor under a mountain of rubble that took the Thunder God hours to dig out of?

And you discredit his fight against the Sentry! Talk about low! Sentry was powerful enough to take on Thor, the Avengers, Loki with the Rune Stones, several super hero teams and SHIELD by himself during SHIELD! And he didn't nearly cut loose like he did against Hulk during World War Hulk! He even told Hulk that he was the only being he could unleash his full power upon! Did you seem him bust out a power of a million exploding suns on Thor? No, not even once. Held back as Osborn ordered.

And the fight with Warrior Madness Thor in Incredible Hulk #440? Thor was indeed at full power. I've got the scans to prove it! And if that isn't a win for Hulk, than neither is Thor BFRing Nul-Hulk and collapsing face first in the dirt.

You talk and degrade Hulk's moments of durability and power, yet you boast Thor's and accept them without question? Freaking hypocrite! And let me tell something. The only reason those 1,000 winds hurt Glory at all was because the attack was made from within the being. The only way Thor beat Glory in their first battle at all was because Mjolnir absorbed Glory's blast and redirected it back at the entity. And the subject of Glory being a Sky-Father entity is up for debate and is most likely hyperbole, cause Thor's got his butt easily kicked by Odin and Zeus without any real trouble.

And something else you've got to learn. Regardless of incarnation, Hulk is powerful. Gray Hulk, the weakest incarnation, shattered an asteroid twice the size of earth with one blow unscathed. Now, if Gray Hulk can do that, imagine what Savage, Professor, Green Scar and other incarnations are truly capable of doing and withstanding!

And once again you claim Thor can shrink Hulk with transmutation and squash him. Forget it. It won't work and it isn't gonna happen. Transmutation of any kind has been futile on the Hulk. And Hulk isn't go to be instantly vaporized if he was teleported into the sun. Get over it. Same lame excuse that you so-called claim would work.

Then you think Hulk can't break through Thor's vortex?! Are you serious? Hulk has shattered and powered through Vector's powers several times, powers that have even repelled reality itself, power that can casually move numerous planets with relative ease! Or how about Hulk overpowering the Stranger's energy vortex that could change the orbit of planets? Hmm? Nothing?

And what makes you honestly think Thor's God Blast can kill Hulk? Where in blue blazes hell do you honestly think it can kill the Hulk? Where the hell is your proof? And better yet, what makes you think Hulk can't withstand it? Hmm? Huh? I would very much like to know. Who is to say Hulk's healing can't last forever? He keeps fighting and getting up. Feasted on by Elder Spikes who thrive on universal energies and dying stars, blasted through the chest by Trauma's laser cannon that can blast through planets, taking a brutal beating from an entire Pantheon of Gods, it's Sky-Father, and eaten down to the bone for 3 days by giants buzzards while previous helping to save the multiverse from the Chaos King and his hordes and before that battling his Old Power crazed son who wants to smash a planet into earth... I could go on for days.

And you do know that more intelligent versions of Hulk have used Bannertech devices for flight/teleportation/shielding, right? Oh, wait! No you haven't because you know nothing about the Hulk or Bruce Banner! You just throw your weight around, declaring that Hulk can't do this or can't survive that, when in fact he can and try to force/bully your biased opinions and views on others. Guess what? It's not gonna happen!

And you state my arguements has revolved around Hulk's high-end feats? What about yours?! Thor against Celestials, Thor against Glory, blah blah blah blah! And you wanna talk hypocrisy? Dude, look no further than yourself. Thor holding back. Hulk's popularity. Thor fighting in a slugfest. Thor wasn't at full power. It's always these same, false, lame-ass excuses. I'm sick of hearing it.

Hulk and Thor are equals. It doesn't matter how you look at it. In fact, it should be clear to even you that it's the truth. Accept it.

Oh, the irony.

Yeah, he did. That is a win for Thor. And Tom Breevort confirmed that was an amped Hulk. Still lost.

Once again you have resorted to bringing up much stronger versions of Hulk in order to make a point against regular Thor i.e WWH. Which is, irrelevant. Then go ahead and name people regular Hulk has withstood that has magic on par with Thor.

Yeah....that was a win for Hulk. I already said that. Why are you going back there?

Discredit? And where the hell did you come upon that interpretation? I just said that Sentry in that fight was not using any kind of power equal to a million suns, because he wasn't. If anything your highly over crediting that feat since your trying to give Sentry power he has never displayed in an attempt to make Hulk look good.

No, he wasn't. If you have scans, then surely you have the one where it shows Thor's power functioning off someone else's. I would call Thor's fight in Fear Itself a win given the circumstances of it, since while already weakened he fought both and amped Hulk and Thing and was victorious.

Once again you are making crap up in your own delusional mind. I am hardly using any high ends from Thor at all. And do you even have any idea what your talking about? The attack he used to beat Glory was not the Winds attack. That was an attack Thor dished out himself that hurt him. Nope, the writer in an interview already stated Glory was a sky father level being, how many times does this need to be said? And I love how your the one complaining about it when I could just as easily say that Hulk having success over powerful hell lords in their realm, who you claim are Dormammu level who in turn is sky father level, is complete BS since Zeus lmaoroflstomped the living day lights out of Hulk with his bare fists and there are tons of other characters who aren't even at that level like Iron Man and Abomination who have defeated Hulk several times.

You see, this is what I mean when I say Hulks best feats are mostly a bunch of absurd high ends. Grey Hulk, who is considered the weakest incarnation, destroyed an asteroid 2x the size of Earth in one hit, something Savage Hulk has never done before, but at the same time has these high ends where he has strength on a dimensional level, but then WB Hulk, who is considered the strongest incarnation, has never done anything like that either and was actually portrayed at only being a planet buster. Hulk is a power level fluctuating PIS machine.

Yet it already has worked. Goom already did it. Thor can do the same. Sure Hulk will get vaporized in the suns core. There is already evidence to that. If you want to ignore it to make you feel better, fine by me.

Still couldn't get past it.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/...ulk01JIM112.jpg

Because, the God Blast is an attack that has always been portrayed at a level that can hurt sky father level beings. Hulk isn't surviving that. But just for the sake of debating, I don't believe he needs to resort to an attack like that anyway.

So? I'm not talking about those versions. Irrelevant as usual. Did you know there are versions of Thor that are elder god level?

I actually laughed out loud when I read what you just said. "The celestials! Glory! Blaaaah! First off, when did I say anything about the celestials? And I hope you realize the only real high ends I used in favor of Thor was the attack he used against Glory and the God blast, which are things that have actually always been portrayed at that power, unlike you who has been glorifying Hulk with a bunch of absurd high ends that go against consistent power levels. The rest I have been saying is casual/average stuff. You know, if I actually did want to dwell on Thor high ends, I could just say Thor has damaged a celestial who shrugged off attacks from an amped Destroyer and hurt a freaking multiversal level being with one bolt of lightning, but you don't see me doing that, do you?

And what world do you live in? Excuses? Its called facts. Thor holds back? Sure he does, there is tons of evidence to support that and it should be fairly self explanatory anyway seeing as how he doesn't use attacks like God Blast and soul stealing everywhere. Hulk is more popular? Sure he is, that's why there are movies like Hulk Vs. Thor fighting in a slug fest? Sure he does, 97% of all his fights with Hulk he does nothing but brawl. Thor wasn't at full power? If your talking about his fight with Maestro Hulk, then sure, it says so in the damn comic. Only a delusional, biased fan boy would attempt to call things like this "excuses and lies", which frankly is a rather common standard for Hulk supporters.

Sure. Keep telling yourself that. At this point I hardly care anymore seeing as how you continue to waste my time with the same BS.

You can rot in your denial. Facts are still facts.

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#4  Edited By Old_Chris

@GreenScar1990 said:

First things first. Red Hulk was toying with She-Hulk. He even told her that he could kill her if he desired. He took on and bested her and the Lady Liberators. And it was also mentioned that Red Hulk did in fact use his draining abilities to some degree on his other foes during Jeph Loeb's run (it was mentioned in Hulk #21, to be precise). And another thing, you are a freaking liar! That pic that you claim of Thor nearly killing Hulk with Mjolnir? It's Red Hulk, and not to mention it's from a non-cannon comic titled BREAKING INTO COMICS THE MARVEL WAY #2! And you mentioned Avengers Assemble?! What is blue blazing hell are you talking about?!

Hulk KO'ed Thor with his own hammer in Avengers Assemble #4! Here's proof of that fact! If you're referring to Avengers: Season One, that's non-cannon!

And once again you step aside and ingore the fact that Mjolnir is a weapon. How like you. But, whatever, I'm only stating the facts. Mjolnir, like a gun, only rests in its place until someone wishes to use it. Like it or not, it's a crutch that has saved Thor's ass countless times. You'll never see Hulk have to use a powerful mystical weapon to get the job done 95% of the time. That's all. I'm not complaining. Stop trying to turn the subject of the matter. And the... "I don't know where it is, but it's true" act? Yeah, classic hypocrite. When I present facts, I go to the source and post them, whether they're links or actual pics/scans.

And by the way, Hulk has beaten Thor more than once. And guess what? They're all connected to Marvel-616!

Incredible Hulk Annual 2001- Hulk overpowers and buries Thor under a mountain of rubble that takes him hours to get out of.

Let the Battle Begin #1- Hulk overpowering and knocking out Thor with a few powerful blows from his own hammer!

Incredible Hulk #440- Professor Hulk, disguised as Maestro, battles and overpowers and BFR's a fully-powered Warrior Madness Thor!

Want proof that Hulk can shatter Mjolnir? You've got it!

Hulk shattering Onslaught's armor with a single blow while on his back. It was stated that Onslaught's armor and power was at Celestial level. Unlike Thor, who needed his own strength plus Mjolnir to damage this kind of level of armor, Hulk did it with a single strike and with nothing but his fists.

Hulk crushing the enchanted uru hammer of Nul: Breaker of Worlds with his bare hands while Cul/The Serpent and his avatars known as the Worthy are at the height of their power!

And what about Hulk destroying the Sacred Flame, an indestructible Eternal/Deviant weapon that not even Kubic (a cosmic cube come to life) could harm, that was built to battle the Celestials themselves!

You know nothing of Hulk's speed. And you want proof that Hulk can and has caught Surfer in full surf mode? You've got it!

Tales to Astonish #92-93: Hulk catches Surfer in full surfing mode more than twice!

Dr. Strange: Sorcerer Supreme Annual #2- Hulk snatches Surfer's board from him right in full surfing mode.

And man are you delusional when it comes to Hulk being durability! u honestly think that Hulk can't endure what Thor can? You've given no real proof. Just your biased opinion, which isn't worth anything! And Hulk getting burned through re-entry? You do know he was unscathed after the fall, right? All of them to be exact! Want proof of that?

And a barrage of lightning from Thor only stuns Professor Hulk. Want some proof? I've got it!

And I guess diving into the core of Sakaar means nothing? Earth's core is over 12,000 F. And this was while Hulk was recovering from the effects of the Great portal. Not to mention the fact that Sakaar was larger, has greater gravity than, and is more volcanic and harse than that of Earth's environment.

Or how about when the Celestial Order powered by the Heart of the Universe, one-shot Namor and Dr. Strange while Savage Hulk shrugs off those same blasts?

But wait! I've got more! How about enduring Human Torch's Nova blast, which is over 1 million degrees, and Storm's most powerful lightning assault all at once unscathed and still recovering from the affects of the Great Portal?

What about when the Sentry released the full power and intense heat of a thousand, or in this case a million, exploding suns? That's about what? A lot more intense than the core of the sun or any star for that matter. Is that enough proof? Or are you going to ingnore and deny, and/or make up more false excuses?

God, you want to talk about a poor arguement! Dude you're the one doing it! I don't know what's more pathetic! The fact that your favortism is strictly for Thor, or the fact that you're totally biased and against the Hulk! And you cling to this delusion that he's superior to the Hulk!

Spare me of this nonsense! You say Hulk has no answer for whatever Thor plans to use against him, but is it really true? No. And then you go on to claim Thor's most impressive feats outrank the Hulk's? Talk about bold and totally untrue, especially if one where to consider the fact that most of Thor's most impressive feats are that of Mjolnir, some powerful mystical weapon, a massive plot device, or something else entirely!

But I'm not here to discuss that. No, I'm here to tell you a simple truth. After this, I don't want to hear a word, a response or anything from you because this is what is boils down to when it comes to Hulk and Thor.

They're equals okay.

Deal with it.

Move on with your life.

I never came on here saying "Oh, Hulk can kill Thor no problem". I came on here to shed some light, to reveal the F'ing truth that both sides, Hulk fans and Thor fans and their haters, need to realize and accept.

Hulk and Thor?

They're equals.

Thor has more powers and versatility thanks to Mjolnir, but has limitations to how far that power can go.

Hulk has infinite power, but can accesses it through different means.

Nuff said.

Shut the hell up and get on with your lives.

I didn't read the rest of that part. But, I don't believe She Hulk is really important now.

Well its obvious that the degree was rather unnoticeable because it did not look like he was draining anybody other than Surfer.

It wasn't supposed to be Rulk. The writer intended it to be the green Hulk but the artist apparently thought otherwise, so looking at it now it is pretty questionable. However, I did not know it was not cannon. If so, then I guess the feat is invalid. But Thor has another win against an amped Hulk in Fear Itself.

What are you talking about? The Avengers Assemble I was referring to was indeed the one you posted. That is a win for Hulk.

At this point I only have one thing to say: why is it so difficult for you to understand what standard equipment is? I will attempt to explain this in the most simple way I possibly can. The difference between a gun in general and Mjolnir is that Mjolnir is something that has always been standard weaponry for Thor. Just like Wonder Woman's lasso or bracelets, or Silver Surfers board. On the other hand, a gun in general is not necessarily standard for a user. It is exactly the same as artifacts like the HOTU or IG. You don't see Thanos using those things in a every fight, do you? No. Only then would your so called "facts" apply. But seeing as how Thor for decades has consistently used Mjolnir in fights, it is standard equipment for him, therefore being fair to use in a fight. And actually, your contradicting yourself as we speak. Was gamma radiation a part of Hulk right from the bat? I don't believe so. You don't see me ranting on about how its unfair that a gamma bomb hit and turned Banner into a super strong raging beast. If you think Hulk is a badass because he doesn't need a magic hammer, then fine, your opinion, but it isn't really relevant here.

.......Act? Uh, if I had access to the interview, I would show it to you. I suppose its up to you if you believe me or not, but go ask anybody that knows anything about Thor's fight with Glory and they'll tell you he was a sky father level being.

How is burying Thor under some rocks a win? At best you could say that was a temporary advantage.

Let The Battle Begin isn't cannon.

Hulk hitting Thor in the air isn't a win either, especially since that hit did nothing to Thor, and he wasn't anywhere remotely close to being at full power. I think I already actually explained that to you.

First off, that statement is obviously false since Cyclops and Thor were able to damage him, and I really don't see either doing that to a Celestial of decent power. Another thing is that Hulk had to get significantly stronger to do that. He will not have that kind of luxury in a fight where his opponent has control over the hammer and will also be attacking him. So, irrelevant. Oh, and I'm also pretty sure Onslaught wanted him to break the armor.

Destroying something like that is indeed a very good feat, however it ties into the same thing I've been saying. Brute strength alone won't cut it at this level. He will not be able to use that kind of striking power against someone he can't even touch. On top of that, Thor has proven durable enough to withstand his hits anyway.

Surfer was not using any noteworthy speed in either of those incidents. There are also dozens of times where much much slower characters have easily tagged Hulk and times where people like Spider Man and Wolverine have danced around him.

I did not say that Hulk can't endure what Thor can. I said Hulk can't endure Thor's best attacks which are magic based, something Hulk isn't very durable against. I have given proof. Thor took him down with one bolt of lightning. His lightning is not as powerful as the attack he used against Glory. If he has serious trouble with Thor's lightning, the 1000 Winds attack will tear him to shreds and there's nothing Hulk can do about it.

Not the point. If Hulks skin was not durable enough to keep him from flaming up on re-entry to Earth, then the suns core will vaporize him instantly.

If I'm not mistaken that scan where he withstands the lightning is from the same fight with the WM Thor. If that's the case then Thor in that fight was seriously depowered. So he did not withstand lightning from a full powered Thor.

Since when is anybody talking about the Earth? I said Hulk would get vaporized by the suns core, which is significantly hotter than the Earths. If you have proof that Skaar's core is anywhere near the heat of the suns, prove it.

Hulk shrugging off attacks from someone empowered by the Heart of the Universe? Okay, this is some major PIS. You need to stop dwelling on Hulks high ends, because a great deal of them really are just ridiculous PIS moments.

That was WB Hulk. Not relevant. And even then, that's only like 1-2 million degrees. Suns core is 27 million degrees. Even that Hulk would still probably get vaporized.

......That was not the heat of a million suns. If that was the case, you would maybe think the Earth would be destroyed? Sentry doesn't have that kind of power anyway, it was actually an hyperbole. Also, that was another much stronger version of Hulk. Not relevant.

Your argument has revolved around glorifying a bunch of high end Hulk feats and not caring to consider the dozens of times where Hulk has not been shown anywhere near that level, and getting your facts wrong.

I on the other hand have mostly just been naming abilities within Thor's power set, most of them the average, and using that as proof that Hulk would not stand a chance. There is already proof as well that you continue to ignore.

Thor can drain Hulk with Mjolnir. Why? Because it has already been proven that people of that level like Silver Surfer who has done it twice, can.

Thor can use transmutation to shrink Hulk then squash him instantly. Why? Because that kind of trick has already worked on Hulk, and instead of waiting for him to get pissed and regrow like Goom did, Thor will just smash him instantaneously.

Thor can control Mjolnir to blitz Hulk non stop with FLT hammer strikes that have shattered small mountains and planetoids. Yeah, Thor literally doesn't even have to move to beat Hulk, and you want to say that their equals?

Thor can use his lightning to repeatedly bombard Hulk with it until he passes out. His lightning has already dropped Hulk in a single bolt.

Thor can use teleportation to take Hulks the suns core where he will be vaporized. Why? Because Hulk has never withstood heat anywhere close to that level and has been shown burning up on re-entry to the Earth.

Thor can BFR Hulk into space where he will be floating helplessly, then kill him with a God Blast. Nothing Hulk can do about that.

Thor can use Winds from a 1000 Worlds to rip him apart. Why? Because Thor's lightning already can do the job, and this is a far stronger attack. And on top of all of that, Hulk isn't even durable towards magic based attacks and has been hurt by such several times, all well below Thor's power. His regeneration can't save him forever.

And then, Hulk can't even do anything to put Thor down. Since all he literally has is brute force, he will be attempting to punch him or thunder clap, which is all completely pointless due to Thor's FLT flight, teleportation, and ability to create a vortex which Savage Hulk has failed to get through before, and the fact that hes taken Hulks best hits before. Tell me, how is Hulk equal to someone who he can't even touch or put down before hes dead or KOed by any of the following above?

So, if your biased mind will allow you to see it, Thor CLEARLY is someone that SHOULD win against Hulk every time, but doesn't due to plot and morals.

Thor and Hulk are only equals when Thor is mindlessly slugging it out and has his power reduced by writers so Hulk can appear to be on par with him.

Until Hulk has proven to be equals with a Thor that uses his powers wisely instead of always holding back and slugging it out, Thor will always be better overall, no matter how you look at it.

Case rested.

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#5  Edited By Old_Chris

@LordOfAllHumans said:

Phoenix Force wins, after a long battle. The Robot can be destroyed, the Phoenix cannot (so far). Even though it took 150 years to incubate Jean Grey, does not mean the Phoenix was out of commission. There is no retcon that refutes the Phoenix being the fuel for the stars, and the stars did not go out, which means only Jean Grey as Phoenix was killed and the Force proper was still very much alive and active. Just like committing suicide did nothing to the force as it directly went from the Moon to Earth to give Jean back what it took. Nothing short of a universal cycle ending has actually caused the Phoenix Force to "die" to be reborn.

Jesus......when do these Phoenix lovers go away?

The Robot can be destroyed, however there's nothing the Phoenix can do to accomplish that. What you just said is quite hilarious. The Phoenix Force was annihilated and immobilized for a 150 years by an EMP, yet at the same time is still very much alive and active? Makes sense. Aside from the fact that not being able to die permanently and having the ability to be reborn is completely irrelevant here, a universal cycle is surely not needed to kill it. There are several times where things far far lesser have injured and nearly killed it, so there's nothing to suggest an attack of decently signification power wouldn't kill the Phoenix on the spot.

Superman wins after a rather very short battle. In fact, he probably one shots it.

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#6  Edited By Old_Chris

@boostergold321 said:

It seems as though anything to do with the Hulk that might suggest his advantage over Thor or at least his equal is put under extreme scrutiny and discounted. If you do this with Hulk then should you not also do the same with Thor? You're sounding hypocritical. Only follow rules when it you want to, only when it supports Thor. If you like Thor, that's fine. Just don't use illogical reasoning to support him.

I've already stated how Hulk and Thor are equal. I'll skip to last part of your latest post.

That first scan looks like Thor fighting Red hulk. I'm not sure about the details of that fight. I'll go check it out.

Your second scan shows Thor knocking out Hulk but in that same issue Hulk also knocked out Thor.

Oh? And where did you come to that conclusion? I only really discounted one feat from Hulk, and that was the one time incident where even Hulks strongest versions have never shown power anywhere remotely close to it. Yeah, that universal one. I also admitted there are tons of feats from Thor I consider PIS like harming a multiversal being with his lightning or harming a powerful Celestial that an amped Destroyer Armor failed to do.

Hulk being equal to Thor in a physical brawl where he uses non of his powers isn't Hulk being equal to Thor, its purposely reducing Thor's power to make Hulk appear that hes equal with Thor.

It isn't Red Hulk. The writer said it was supposed to be a fight with the green Hulk, but the artist by accident drew Thor in the wrong costume, making it appear that way.

...I know. And?

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#7  Edited By Old_Chris

@GreenScar1990 said:

This coming from a very biased Thor fan. Your last statement alone proves this fact. And it proves your arrogance and ignorance in regards to the Hulk. Maybe I should explain it better to you so that you could understand. I could make a very long, detailed list to prove you wrong. But why should I bother? It wouldn't matter if I would. But if you insist, I'll make this quick. And, please, make sure to read it over a few times, okay?

You disregard that Hulk is capable of shattering Mjolnir? You do realize it's been shattered numerous times, right? All it takes is powerful enough force. Something that heavy hitters like Hulk, Juggernaut, Hyperion, Gladiator, Sentry or someone similar could actually accomplish. It's not impossible, because it's not an indestructible weapon. It can and has been destroyed.

And Hulk's durability has been shown to rival and even surpass those of Thor and Surfer, so why shouldn't he be able to survive in the sun's intense temperatures? Thor has. Oh, that's right. It's just because he isn't Thor, right? Very shallow, no? C'mon! Hulk and numerous other Marvel powerhouses could take that kind of extreme temperatures and you know it. Saying that Hulk can't is just pure favortism in Thor's part, and/or proves your ignorance of how truly durable Hulk is when compared to those who are on the same level as him.

And you think Thor is too fast for Hulk? Am I hearing this right? You do know that Hulk has caught Surfer at top surfing speed just by leaping through the air and has caught his board several times, right? And I'm sure you know him tagging Quicksilver. And what of keeping pace with the likes of Hyperion and Sentry? Forget about those too?

And you claim ny alternate universe battle between the two is faulty? If it is, then so is the Reigning Thor arch where he kills Professor Hulk and Thing by impaling them. And if you don't believe me, it's non-cannon to Marvel-616. It is, in fact, Marvel-3515. Don't believe me? Check your official Marvel Handbook Novel or go right to Marvel.com. Besides, I was merely stating that the reality in which Hulk and Thor fought and perished in their battle is exactly how these two are and should be portrayed: As equals.

And me using stronger versions of Hulk? Where have I said that? I merely used Green Scar Hulk's ability to resist Red Hulk's draining ability. That's it. What? You think Savage Hulk or any other incarnation hasn't resisted the draining technique? News flash, genius, he has! Here's some examples:

Mystical draining of energy is similarly fruitless. Here, the Spirit Stone of Pariah drains Savage Hulk as his Banner side fights to permit it to drain his lifeforce, but realizing that Pariah would be a threat to the world, he lets Savage Hulk take over who immediately escapes Pariah's grip and overpowers the Spirit Stone in Incredible Hulk #268:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/...aining06268.jpg

The demon, Chernobog, finds this out the hard way and is overloaded by Savage Hulk's power in this flashback to the past in Incredible Hulks #621:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/...aining13621.jpg

Savage Hulk overloads Tyrannus' draining devices connected to an indestructible Deviant/Eternal weapon built to battle the Celestials in Incredible Hulk #241:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/...aining05241.jpg

Randau, an alien who has challenged and nearly bested Terrax with his energy draining, completely fails to drain Savage Hulk's energy here in Incredible Hulk #103:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/...aining02103.jpg

Aliens with technology formidable enough to stagger classic Dr. Strange's seraphim shields and ensnare Silver Surfer use a Starwheel machine to trap and drain the Defenders. Only Savage Hulk is able to power through the draining and cause enough feedback to destroy the Starwheel and free them all in Defenders vol.2 #8:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/...efendersv28.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/...kDraining11.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/...kDraining12.jpg

The more powerful Spike Elders, beings who feed on universal energies and energies of dying stars, usually control the other Spikes but are so weakened that they require vast amounts of energy to restrain them. The only source they can rely on is the still weakened Savage Hulk's own energy and his ability to heal from their constant draining. From Incredible Hulk vol.2 #102:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/...ctor08v2102.jpg

Mr. Fixit's healing factor and heightened metabolism has shaken off the effects of transmutation. Here, he shrugs off the Grey Gargoyle's stone touch -- an ability that has turned even the mighty Thor into helpless stone -- in Incredible Hulk #363:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/...tation01363.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/...smutation02.jpg

Energy lances that drained Klaatu, a monstrous entity that could feed on planets and stars, are torn free from him by the Mindless Hulk who resists their energy draining in Incredible Hulk #307:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/...kDraining03.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/...kDraining04.jpg

These are a few that I could mention.

I look at Hulk and Thor as equals in power. Neither are above the other. When they battle, it could go either way, or end in stalemate. What gives Thor the slightest edge is Mjolnir. At least I'm willing to accept this fact. You, on the other hand, continue this pathetic delusionally biased opinion to think Thor is above Hulk, when in reality he is not.

And in regards to Red Hulk's absorbing abilitity, it hasn't changed. He rarely uses it due to the fact that it could prevent him from transforming back to his human form ever again (something that Ross doesn't want to happen), but it's certainly not diminised in any way. And as I recall, he hasn't lost to She-Hulk, so I'd like to know where in the hell you've read or heard that line of BS. Either way, this draining ability affected Uatu the Watcher, OdinForce Thor, Silver Surfer and other high-powered beings. So, I think it's definitely not something to just toss aside as you have seemingly done.

And like it or not, Mjolnir is a weapon. It's not a part of Thor. It's the same as if a person would wield a gun. It's the gun that fires the bullet, but it's the person that pulls the trigger. It'd be like arguing that Thanos himself killed half the beings in the universe when in fact we all know that the Infinity Gems did all the work... and they're certainly not a part of the Mad Titan. I'm not complaining, unlike you, I'm merely stating the facts.

And by the way, I'd like to see this so-called interview where Glory is stated to be a Sky-Father level being. Because anyone in the right mind, a truly unbiased fan of Thor knows that he isn't going to defeat a Sky-Father in an all-out fight. And before you bring up him killing Cul/The Serpent or Bor, let me remind you that in his battle with Bor, Thor had the OdinForce and Bor wasn't at his peak of power in that conflict, yet was still managing to dominate the Thunder God. And his battle with Cul, Thor had the Odinsword and Odin's enchanted armor to protect him, and he still died. Basically in the fight with Cul, give any heavy hitter like Hulk, Surfer, Gladiator or Hyperion the Odinsword and enchanted armor and I'd bet that they'll have the same results.

And if Thor can beat Hulk, why hasn't he? You want to make the claim that Hulk never beaten Thor. Well, I got a news flash for you! Thor has never beaten Hulk either! Your arguements don't hold any ground either!

And the point I was making in regards to Nigtmare and The Hulk destroying his entire realm? Dude, a demon lord in their realm is nearly supreme in every aspect. Nightmare in his realm is as deadly in powerful as either Dormmamu or Umar are in the Dark Dimension. Why? Because it's their turf, their rules, their realm, genius! How many beings can overwhelm a demon lord in their own realm, huh? Not many.

And Hulk destroying Night Crawler's Dimensional Universe. You know, I find it funny that you and other Thor fans will disregard Hulk's most impressive feats, yet lay claim to Thor's whenever it suits your needs. If I do recall, wasn't Thor at one time bested by Mantis? Better to be blasted point blank range by Black Bolt's voice and get up a few seconds later unharmed than to get taken down by a female who isn't even in the same heavyhitter class. You know I'm right.

Every character, even heavy hitters like Hulk and Thor, have high and low showings. But to state that one is superior to the other is just plain ridiculous! I mean, honestly, it's sheer nonsense!

Right. This should be good.

Lets see, what kinds of forces have shattered Mjolnir? Destroyer Armor has done it once, right? Or the sheer force of his God Blast? Both of which are far beyond Hulks destructive capacity. He is NOT breaking the hammer any time soon because not only will Thor simply control it out of his grasp, but he can do a number of other things to prevent it as well. Honestly, this is one of the worst arguments I have ever seen for a Thor vs Hulk debate.

In terms of what? Blunt force? Sure, I actually agree with that. But towards just about any attack of any other nature than no, hes not. You will find that different characters are more resistant towards different attacks. Thor can easily withstand the heat of the suns core because he is very durable towards elements. Hulk cannot because he has never endured heat anywhere near that level and has been seen twice burning up on re-entry to the Earth. Hulks does have very good tolerance for blunt force. Its nothing special towards anything else, that's why he has that healing factor.

Caught Surfer at tops speeds? When? Any scans? And even so, who's gonna take that seriously when people like Wolverine and Spider Man have danced around him with ease? People like Sentry and Hyperion have never used any noteworthy speed on Hulk, if they even have any noteworthy speed. Tagging Quicksilver is impressive, but Thor can fly at speeds well over light. Hulk has never reacted to that kind of speed.

....Why are you even bringing up that incident? I know its non cannon. I don't take showings like that as accurate date either. I am saying you should not use non cannon materiel to make a point.

Well this is great and all, but a lot of these people are either mediocre level or featless. Kind of explains why when someone who is capable of draining near limitless amounts of energy like Surfer attempts to drain Hulk, he does so with little effort. Thor can do the same with Mjolnir.

They are equals in terms of a physical brawl. Ever notice that Thor never uses his powers against Hulk? That's because of morals and plot. Thor's power set doesn't just give him a slight edge, its the reason why hes considerably above Hulk. I have named plenty of things he can do. He can use his lightning to KO him (the same lightning that has dropped Hulk in a single bolt), drain his gamma with Mjolnir, shrink him then squash with transmutation, use a vortex to shield himself (the same one that Hulk failed to get through before), use Mjolnir to blitz him to a mush, teleport him to the suns core, and other things. When Hulk has proven to be equals to Thor when hes using even a fraction of these powers, let me know.

Red Hulk got pounded by She Hulk.

Er, Rulk didn't use any draining powers against any of those characters except Surfer. And that Surfer was pretty weak sauce anyway, seeing as he got bested by Terrax. Outside that one incident, he has nothing to suggest he can drain as much energy as Thor or Surfer.

....This is just complete rubbish. Why is it so mind numbingly hard for you to understand what standard equipment is? Mjolnir has always been standard for Thor, just like Surfers board, or Wonder Woman's lasso, or Terrax's ax. Go cry me a river about it. The difference between just a gun or the IG is that they are NOT standard equipment for the user. Since Mjolnir IS standard for Thor, you can bet your ass its fair for him to use it in a fight, just like he does 99% of the time.

I don't know where it is, but Glory was stated in an interview to be that level. But are you seriously harping on Thor being expected to lose against a sky father level being, then being completely cool whenever Hulk has success over supposedly powerful hell lords in their own realm? Get real. Spare me the hypocrisy.

....Thor has beaten Hulk twice.

Here he gets pissed and nearly kills Hulk with one hammer strike:

And here he drops him with lightning:

And where did I say Hulk has never beaten Thor? I actually said he did beat him twice, in Avengers Assemble and Hulk Annual 2001.

I can name plenty of feats from Thor that I myself consider PIS. But surely you can see how utterly absurd this one showing for Hulk is, can't you? I mean, no version of Hulk has ever shown power anywhere near that level. I understand both have high and low showings. I assure you I am not harping only on Thor's best feats. My point is simply that he has a power set that Hulk has no answer for. He is too powerful and too versatile for Hulk to comprehend with. I will even admit that in a purely physical brawl, Hulk would win the majority. But in a fight where Thor uses his powers and best attacks, I just don't see how he can logically lose.

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#8  Edited By Old_Chris

Stops at Spider Man.

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#9  Edited By Old_Chris

Hulks character just continues to get lamer.

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#10  Edited By Old_Chris

@CadenceV2 said:

@Old_Chris: Well I guess you will stand your ground. I know from everyone else who posted here that they agree with Odin getting Punked by the Abstract. Enjoy.

Good for them. I don't really care about the majority of something when its mostly based off jumping on the bandwagon and not giving any reason or evidence to support claims.

Oh and by the way; Odin still solos.