lord_oraculous016

1. Dark Phoenix (FOX)

2. Reign (CW)

3. Supergirl (CW)

4. Hela (MCU)

5. Captain Marvel (MCU) / Scarlet Witch (MCU)

Honorable Mentions

*Wonder Woman (DCEU)

*Storm (FOX)

*Mera (DCEU)

Iron Man onced managed to defeat Magneto in the comics but that was when he had some prep but MCU Iron Man and Captain America vs Fox Magneto would be an overwhelming victory for Mags.

Also, for Storm and Beast - are we talking about their composite incarnation from all Fox movies of just the ones from the Dark Phoenix movie? Also, does Dr. Strange have the time stone or not? Composite Storm with her feats from Days of Future Past may hold back no time stone Doctor Strange for a while seeing how preoccupied he was when facing a massive flood during Endgame.

Thor with Stormbreaker will be slaughtered by a composite Jean Grey (especially with the Phoenix Force).

MCU team's only chance is winning via BFR, and that is if Jean doesn't atomize them first.

Fox is winning 9/10 chances, Beast is not even a factor.

So it has been a couple of years.. Are some of the old peeps still around? lol

I never thought I'd be able to retrieve my password

After watching Dark Phoenix, I'll give it to Jean. None of them are resistant to molecular manipulation or atomic desintegration. Their only chance is BFR but they have to do it before she atomize them all

The army and the Black order are non-factors really ?

Wondering if my good old peeps are still in the vine.. :)

Just wanna drop by Comicvine after a millenia.. lol

I don't think so.. That is just a bit too much.. IMO, she's more like someone who acts in behalf of a superior being in terms of the concept of the spirit, life and creation.. We all know that The Living Tribunal is the supreme judge of the omniverse.. The one who acts as the chief arbitrator and serves as the guardian of the ominiverse, in a physical way i mean.. For what i can tell, the WPOTC acts the same, but serves as a guardians of the metaphysical to spiritual realm.. The realm of the mind and spirit.. In my opion, she appears more akin to an angel in a biblical sense rather than being God.. Also, she reminds me of one.. Remember the Seraphim?.. The angel of the highest order who is clothed in holy flames.. I think she is more like that.. But to be God, heavens no.. :)

Thanks.. :P

We that's is what defines it the the concept of the Tree of Life.. As Phoenix or others would call her "Green Phoenix", Jean was described as Tiphereth, the Heart of the Tree of Life.. like the concept which it is based on, the Green Phoenix is a being that symbolizes LOVE and COMPASSION.. As Dark Phoenix, a being who only hungers for carnal sensations, she may be described as concept of Malkuth in the Tree of Life which is associated with the realm of matter and earth and relates to the physical world.. And now as the White Phoenix of the Crown, she is described as Keter, also known as the Crown is the topmost Sephirot, which is described as the attribubutes/emenations through which GOD reveals himself and continuously creates both the physical realm and the chain of higher metaphysical realm.. I think this is what Marvel wants to portray Jean as the WPOTC.. Hope this helped..

@killemall:

Cool,its nice to have you back man. Sadly we are likely to clash a lot more often in a thread involving elder gods, but i honestly look forward to debating with you on those topic :)

- Thanks man.. :)

1. While building a lighthouse, all across the multiverse (i thought it was omniverse but have to check) is impressive, it was not done on a random time. They waited for a special alignment called Interface Alignment to occur, which occurs naturally. It was only when the alignment occured they could project the said lighthouse, its backed by both on panel evidence and bio.

2. Necrom is not just a random host of the phoenix force,he is on his own right a sorcerer supreme, and as such has his own powers, let alone the time he took to do prep. Although he only had the power of anti-phoenix which is a slight portion of Phoenix power, he clearly had his own power set, thats the reason Rachel with 1/2 the phoenix force was clearly struggling against Necrom with a small portion of Phoenix force and had to reduce to plot to finally defeat him.

So given that feat required interface alignment, as well as power of a prep up sorcerer supreme makes it extremely hard to attribute the feat to Phoenix, even made worse given Rachel with 1/2 the phoenix force going all out, managed to only destroy solar system.

-

1. Point taken.. but that doesn't change a fact the feat was a multiversal feat.. it only added more room for debate regarding the matter.. :)
2. One must remember that possessing the force means you can actually utilize its full power.. remember when Rachel fought the Shadow King, he said that her inexperience unable her to wield the full power of the force she wields..

I have heard this before, never seen a scan, would you have one (i would prefer an issue number too). Also if i am not wrong its a what if.

- Yes.. I believe it's a What If.. I believe the title was "What If the X-Men Lost Inferno?" What if...? (2nd series) # 6.. Here is the scan..

This is from one of the Excalibur issues and there is a context involved i believe, which sadly i cant recall at the moment. Do you have the issue number, i know i can add context to it, also i recall 2 universe first merged and then it seperated on its own

- Yes.. I believe is was from Excalibur: Weird War III (Marvel Graphic Novel # 66).. From what i remember, the PF merged the two realities because of the mental energies of Herr Xavier's mentally slaughtered mutants evolved into a single consciousness.. Their cries and anguish coxed the PF to merged the two universes and seperated when the cosmic balance was restored..

HOM Wanda's feat was indeed omniversal in nature, and it was stated as omniversal in Die by the Sword 01. The problem is her reality warping feat is all but universal, that also incomplete within a universe, while it did affect the past and the future, it only affected the potential past and the future of 616.

- Yes, it was but that was the warped she did when she created House of M.. During the HoM, we are aware that there were alternate realities which were not affected by the warped and it was isolated in 616, well used to be 616.. But, the same thing cannot be said on her second spell, the spell of "No More Mutants".. When she uttered those words, it just did not only shifted every possible alternate futures of the 616 universe, but it also affected alternate realities as shown in Endangered Species.. There we see alternate realities, and alternate counterparts of Beast figuring out how to undo the spell of "No More Mutants"..

The Chaos Wave however tore apart the omniverse, now that is genuinely an omniversal feat, but Phoenix did nothing in order to stop that though. It was Meggan who first tapped into the power of Earth, then Otherworld and when that power was still not even she tapped into the power of the Beyond, together with all these power she manage to close the rift , once the Chaos Wave was halted the omniverse healed itself.

- No i never had the Chaos Wave in mind.. And you are correct, the PF did nothing to do to stop it and that it was Meagan..

Thats still Phoenix force affecting past and future of mutant race.

- Again, i was referring how it undid the spell of "No More Mutants" which apparently also affected alternate universes..

We are clearly talking about different issue, i was talking more about issues where Phoenix Force destroys its native alternate reality in 2 what ifs. The Living Tribunal instance i have no read and hence cannot comment.

- Oh, sorry.. My bad.. :)

The feat was clearly referred to as universal in the issue as well as bio, hard to argue it was multiversal, not to mention Jean had good help there and she was inside white hot room, where the Phoenix avatar are amped.

- Hmmm.. I never heard that the PF avatars are amped while within the WHR.. Are they like Elder Gods, Demons or Principalities now, who are significantly more powerful while within their realms?

Could you show me one on panel evidence or bio that suggests the universe she held on her hand became 616?

That certainly doesnt look like the case.

Earth 15104 is a potential future of 616 , which formes an alternate dimension.

She did pluck Earth 15104 from its mega structure, which likely was the vast amount of potential futures of 616 as opposed to a whole multiverse. Even then given she is inside a nexus of all reality, and plucked a reality, i dont see how that makes it any more than a universal feat.

Sorry but i am a little confused on what you are trying to say on the () part, because Here Comes Tomorrow wasnt a good future as it was destined to die, it was orphaned by Jean Action and later erased as a potential future because of what Scott did.

- Ok.. Here is the thing.. Jean plucked 15104.. Earth 15104 is only one of the many possible futures of Earth 616.. Now, we see Jean, cutting of the future (pertaining to the reality which is Earth 15104).. Now, since the dire future has been cut off, the possibility of the universe she was holding being Earth 15104 has been eliminated (how can it be the future reality when the future has already been cut off).. That is exactly why Quentin Quire told Jean that she must water it with her hearts blood, meaning she must let Scott, her one true love, go and allow him to be happy with Emma.. that is the only way for the current universe she is holding (616) to have a better future.. Her actions of giving Scott a mental push happened in the prime universe which is 616.. So therefore, the universe she was holding is clearly the prime reality..

Besides, the Phoenix has always been described as multiversal.. As evidenced by this scan..

That certainly isnt a multiversal feat, you got to admit, she is in a nexus of all reality, which clearly gives her access to any reality in the multiverse, then from there she picks one universe, that also unintentionally, even then its all but a potential future of 616, perhaps this picture will help:

All she did was pick one of those branches, manipulated it, and push Scott Summers to take an action that prevent that certain branch or future never happened.

Clearly universal if you ask me.

- Yes, yes i am well aware of that.. The WHR is indeed the Nexus of All Realities, but does that really underweight her feat.. The WPOTC has basically no feats outside the WHR so we cannot justify.. Nor does one can conclude she only control one universe at a time while inside her realm, nor does being in her realm boost her power.. Fact is, she can do basically anything to a certain universe as she wishes.. She held the prime universe in her hand from the rest of the existing realities, who knows the true extent of her powers.. We saw how the PF merged two realities before.. One can only assume of things she can do..

Now this is more of a multiversal feat, post retcon beyonder vs molecule man

Gallery

- Ah.. Pre-Retcon Beyonder and Molecule Man.. Can't argue with those two..

Or this weirdest feat from Celestials that appeared quite recently, its multiversal or at the least significantly beyond universal.

- Never seen that before.. Thanks buddy.. :)