jaywray

Can you think of a moment where you were amazed at Supermans conviction?

I actually can't be bothered with this because it's been many posts with many people and it's just taking a lot of time.
I'm not even getting my own point across well probably because I'm trying to get on to the next person.

I take back what I said about people being stupid saying he's the greatest of all time.

Clearly my criticism isn't shared by some.
I personally find him to be possibly the most boring 1 dimensional characters in history to become successful. (Again, aside from some truly amazing side stories)

But Id just like to know, can you think of a moment where Supermans conviction to do good, or to save someone, was of worth to be remembered?

Jesus god damn christ, I never said that's what makes someone heroic, I simply said that's the reason why Goku has inadvertently put others at risk.

" WIthout Superman, you wouldn't have Goku, anime, comic books or anything else of the superhero genre." -

Again with this redundant point people like to make just because something older than something else, here's one for you, look up Philip Wayly's Gladiator, look up some fact about it that Superman is a shameless rip off as well, and hell, I'm sure it's a rip off of something too.
Just because something is successful, doesn't make it good.

"Toriyama based some of Goku's personality on Superman. What does that tell you about the character?"

This is incorrect, Goku was nothing at all like Superman until Z, and even then it's not by any means personality, it's by back story and being as powerful protectors etc.
Although Toriyama had clearly heard of Superman since he'd already made a parody off him in another series of his call Dr Slump (they made have made a dragonball Cameo but I'm not sure if the superman Parody was there).

Please show me any source at all where Toriyama has stated anything about Goku being remotely influenced personality wise by Superman, hell even mention'd at all would be good cause Id like to read it regardless.

Also people seem to think that being truly good is what is truly right, which is wrong.
Doing what's necessary is what's truly right, Superman shouldn't be helping every person with every little thing, people need to learn and grow themselves, hell it's even been talked about that Superman could just be hindering humans because well... "Superman'll do it!"

Again, god damn, listen to me here people, I'm not saying Goku is better, I never said that.
Not once.
I said Superman isn't the greatest hero of all time, you can disagree with me, that's fine, we clearly have different criteria for what makes a hero / interesting person.

If you truly believe that in real life, if you knew someone who was only ever perfectly nice, you'd be good friends with them, then fair enough, good for you. Id find that person boring after a day or two.

Id rather be imperfect and interesting, than perfect and boring as hell.

I'm not saying you can't be all those things, no, no not at all.
But if it comes at a cost of any uniqueness other than being those thing like Superman is, id rather not.
Superman is good. That's what he is, he's good.

Let me put it like this, let's do what you guys think I actually want in a hero, lets make Superman relatable.

Strip him of his powers, and what is he? Just a farmers kid through and through, he's a good guy. He's never going to do anything unexpected or interesting, because, that wouldn't be the good guy thing to do.
He's not funny, he's smart to the point he'd just be annoying to be around, he'd be the guy always trying to be nice to everybody, he'd be the most consistent person on the planet.

Id bet a lot of us actually know or knew a few people in our lives who're just the nicest people on the planet, we'd never say a bad word about them, but we'd never ask them for company on a night out because there's never anything new or again ( I use this word often as you can tell) Interesting.

Have the recent Superman comics changed his personality at all? as in, is he an interesting person?
I don't mean relatable by the way, I mean interesting.
I've read upwards of 300 Superman comics including alternative timeline Superman comics (Where Superman is actually good), from the main timeline I've never enjoyed Superman himself.

Goku is absolute pure of heart, he proved this entirely by going Super Saiyan while using the spirit bomb, he has no Saiyan instinct anymore, he just has a child like innocence and curiosity.
(which I agree inadvertently hinders his hero factor).

I'm not decided on who I think the greater hero of the two is, Goku's personality at time can be the embodiment of heroism, but not always. (Hope of the universe etc)

My issue, if you care to look back, was with the idea that Superman was the greatest Superhero of all time. He is not.

Id rather ram my face into a wall repeatedly than have Superman as someone to look up to.

No, he may be unrelatable, but he's also boring.
There are plenty of unrelatable characters in fiction who are at least entertaining and don't have the personalities of that guy at the party, still trying, waaaay too hard.

(I'm just kinda hoping you get what I mean by the guy at the party, if not just say)

It's not that I strictly dislike him it's just that he's about as interesting as a .. I can't even think of something to compare him to, he's that boring.
He's that guy at parties, who tries waaaaay to hard to be friends with everyone.

Am I criticizing him for being pretty much perfect? yes, yes I am. It's exactly why he's boring and unlikable.

If I'm correct you've seen the movie right?
Do you speak Japanese and happen to know if Piccolo, or any character for that matter says anything about Bills being a Galaxy buster?

Just because he isn't meant to be relatable, doesn't mean he has to be about as likable as a dead puppy on Christmas morning.

A: You're clearly Bias just for disliking anime in general, I don't mind you disliking anime in general, that's your opinion man, but you can't say you're not bias.
B: I do respect what the Superman comics has done for the industry, but THAT doesn't make him the best, it makes him the most successful.
C: Do you always measure of GOOD something is by how well it sells? Surely you must be loving Justin Bieber, Lady Gaga and the likes.
D: I'm not stating Goku is the greatest hero of all time, as many have pointed out that his love of fighting and general good nature has put others at risk before inadvertently.
E: I don't think you can really say who's the greatest hero of all time, if you're talking about accomplishments then there are others who greatly surpass both, but does that make them better?

I personally know a lot of people who read / have read Superman ONLY to keep up to date with major events and hate the actual comics, hell I don't know a lot of people who actually like the comics I'm personally not a big fan of the main timeline superman comics, but some of the alternative Superman comics are some of my favorite fiction of any medium.

Oh you're going new 52 only? Hmm, I stopped reading comics for a couple of months, stopped just before Justice League vs Darkseid, so I can't make any judgments, but from what I have seen, Post Crises Supes still wins.