@jackknight: Death, because she is a QT

Despite being most powerful of the endless, Death still loses.

@citizenbane@shootingnova@jedixman@neongamewave@logy5000@cadencev2@dextersinister@comicstooge@the_imperator@alternative_backup@kingofash@bronze_surfer@carter_esque mind if you all join?

I don't know enough about Oblivion

that is a terrible picture of death of the endless, she looks pregnant

I'd say Death.

@thedarklordpandamonium: certainly bottom-heavy, but by no means pregnant

I think Dream can take her

totally

@xxgin:

while he does have better feats, there is reason to believe that death is more powerful than him.

in book of magic #4, we know that death and destiny are the last 2 of the endless, death comes for destiny as well as the universe itself:

that clearly indicates that she is the most powerful of the endless.

She also travels to the endless' realms freely unlike the others, sandman v2 #47:

Death has other things that puts her above the other endless though i don't see anything to suggest that she's on oblivion's level, since chaos king (who nearly destroyed the multiverse) was one small aspect of oblivion as revealed in The Mighty Thor Annual #1:

@rolldestroyer: I can say one thing chaos king is a terrible measuring stick for Oblivion. Chaos King was empowered by gradually absorbing pantheons from most of the universe so his power had little to do with Oblivions.

chaos king has been confirmed to be the nothingness that existed before the universe - that speaks volumes imo,

Edit: not to mention he's also been described as eternity's peer.

ill post the scans later.

@xxgin: @thedarklordpandamonium: I think the picture is fine.

Does it?

Regardless my point still stands, chaos king wasn't using Oblivions power he was simply using everyone else's, a feat replicable by a large number of power absorbers if they start off on the other side of the universe and work there way back rather than start trouble on Earth first.

@rolldestroyer:

I still like Dream better reagardless of who is more powerful.

Also is that Constantine with Tim?

yes, Chaos war #2, eternity says that chaos king is the darkness and chaos that existed before existence itself:

assault on new olympus prologue:

no, it's Mr. E, Constantine was Tim's guide in book of magic #2

I don't think Death of the Endless has shown anything to suggest she would win this matchup, but then again, I'm not a big fan of DC.

@shootingnova: I miss you dude!

@rolldestroyer: your debating style is the same as Mr Master and Killemal who do you think you can take between them

@thanosii: @monsterstomp: @shootingnova: @dextersinister: @xxgin: @logy5000: @thedarklordpandamonium: @the_imperator: @rolldestroyer: @betatesthighlander1: I actually think this fight would be a stalemate.

@jackknight: nope, DotE is 2 cute

Im assuming you're talking in regards to Marvel Cosmics, in which case - im pretty sure that im not as knowledgeable as those 2, especially considering that the majority of their reading time is dedicated to Marvel, while i read Marvel as much as i read DC.

I'm actually going to side with Death here for a slight majority.

Is Oblivion above or beneath Marvel's Death? I believe it was referenced that Death of the Endless exists in all realities, and therefore would also hold the place of Marvel's Death, as well. Could be wrong, though.

One of her best "feats" is the fact that even the Furies fear her, and actually left the area when she ordered them to. She's the one who is meant to bring an end to the DC universe at the end of time.

there is no definitive answer for that, it really depends on the issue/arc.

Personally, id put Eternity and oblivion as the 2 most powerful marvel abstracts

even better, death of the endless has a role to play in lucifer creation, this was seen in Lucifer #25-26, here's a quick bio to confirm this, from the vertigo encyclopedia

to clarify: Lucifer's creation is another multiverse, Lucifer: Nirvana

However, knowing all this, i don't see what she has actually displayed to make her oblivion's superior.

Also, we know that death is going to end the universe, while oblivion is the end of the multiverse

@jedixman: I'd say Oblivion supersedes Marvel's Death. An aspect of him nearly destroyed the multiverse and I believe that it also forced Death to leave the reality or something.

Oh, and long time no see.

@monsterstomp: Well, I've been inactive for months now. I guess I do miss the Vine.

You were shooting nova's and I was stomping monsters :)

@monsterstomp: LOL.

They forgive each other and it ends in sex.

I'm a tad out of touch with the Marvel Abstracts; missed Chaos War.

Same. How've you been?

@jedixman: I don't think you might want to read anything related to it, LOL.

Fine. I've just been absent on the Vine for a few months, mainly due to RL issues and what not. How have you been?

Death is "death", the concept of death. She will be there at the end of all things. The panel you posted offers that Oblivion is the concept of dying, "the breath between life and death" as Oblivion puts it. Does it not follow that Death will outlive Oblivion by definition, no matter what happens?

I dont personally but a lot of stock on having someone like Lady Death leave run away.

You might be surprised at how often this has happened, only to be later revealed that, had Lady Death used her power she was undoubtedly superior to people who have made her run away, strange.

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Captain Marvel Vol 3 # 17 it was revealed that, when Walker, a death god from another Galaxy, first professed his love for death and when she rejected him planned to kill Death, a plan Death knew about. Knowing what Walker would do Death left her domain, and hid into Marlow. That should normally show Walker is a lot superior to Death.

Next issue Captain Marvel vol 3 # 18 reveals that, it was because Death compassion that she hid herself and ran from her realm and she defeats Walker with ease.

This is not the first time either, the exact same happened in Avengers Celestial Quest.

================================

Rot, Death and Thanos mind-child, chased Death outside her domain, he was going to kill her, and eat the whole universe with it. Death had to come all the way to meet Thanos to help her. Finally, when push came to shove Death was force to do 1 thing she doesnt, release her true power.

Its the same power that Thanos then uses to kill the lot.

Not how it says "But never has she released her power"

================================

Didnt the same thing happen against Inbetweener and Lady Death.

Inbetweener outright humilated Death, and she could do nothing but follow what Inbetweener asked her to do, but get angry because of that.

So a guy forcefully calls upon death, makes her do something against her wishes (kill the elders), she goes so far to be angry at him and hold a grudge against him but do nothing to retaliate.

Wouldnt that suggest Inbetweener is at the very least just as powerful as Death, and more reasonably perhaps more so?

Well we know for a fact that its untrue, that Death's power is not only greater but leagues and bounds more powerful than Inbetweener as evident by Thanos Imperative 6.

Gallery

So Death unleashes her power and entire cancerverse invasion is stopped on tracked, everything on its path utterly destroyed.

Galactus engine that single handedly fought the Celstials + Galactus (who alone was totally over-powering Inbetweener in a weakened conditional)

Yet the same Galactus engine, alongside MOA, and the entire cancerverse invasion gets annihilated when Death finally decides to use her power.

=========================================

That brings me to my point, its hard to decide what Abstracts are doing or tend to do. Death running away and actually not fighting back is perfectly in character for her, the same happened against Walker, same happened against Rot, same happened against Inbetweener, when its pretty clear Death was superior to them all, by some order of margin.

=========================================

Going all philosophical on with, without scan before for the love of god i cant recall where i read that :p, marvel universe is based on perfect harmony between the various force of nature.

Eternity (infinity time) vs Death (finite life)

Infinity (embodiment of creation) vs Oblivion (embodiment of destruction, nothingness)

Balance of life and death is pivotial in the universe and no single abstract can be more powerful than the other.

Currently however Eternity is most likely most powerful because, Eternity is more often written as a single abstract embodiment both Eternity (time) and Infinity (space)

================================

We have actually seen a small conflict between Abstract on panel as well.

Quasar # 25 we have Quasar + Infinity fight Malestrom + Oblivion, in Oblivion's own realm and it ended with Quasar defeating Malestorm and Infinity stalemating Oblivion.

Gallery

========================

So Oblivion has no inherent superiority over Death, or any abstract for that matter. Death and Oblivion represent the forces of Death and Eternity and Infinity represent the forces of life, they are in perfect harmony.

================================

In fact as the issue points out these forces have always had an agreement , you are hardly going to get a perfect agreement between 2 forces if one were to be more powerful than the other.

Like you can see Infinity refers to an old agreement, while Oblivion refers old balance.

It's pointless to compare Death from Sandman and Death from Marvel. The Marvel Cancerverse, for instance, is a universe where Marvel's Death was killed, but Death of the Endless is present in every universe and multiverse. They are two very different characters.

But this thread isn't about Marvel Death vs Death of the Endless! This is about Death of the Endless vs Oblivion from Marvel!!!!!!!

@killemall: That Quasar issue made a mistake regarding oblivion. We know for a fact that there is only one oblivion in the multiverse, he has no counterparts, while infinity, eternity and death, all have counterparts in other universes. So the part where oblivion and 616 death balance the 616 eternity and infinity is wrong, imo.

What the feats of Oblivion?

Both @rolldestroyer and @shootingnova pretty much explained Oblivion's feats in there comments in this thread.

some of them are already stated and shown in this thread: he stalemated infinity, chaos king is only a small aspect of him.

other than that, he's also been stated to exist before the multiverse, several times.

you'll also notice that these same statements have been seen in the mighty thor annual scan posted in the OP, this is also referenced in his 2006 bio

Infinity, eternity, and death are born from the big bang, which makes oblivion the oldest of them all, and the nothingness from which they sprang from (though it doesn't necessarily make him more powerful), and he'll continue to exist even when the multiverse ceases to be.

In Quasar #40, it is shown that when someone is hit by the ultimate nullfier it goes to oblivion's realm:

Gallery

Note: the ultimate nullifier is capable of obliterating eternity, as shown more than once.

Thats something oblivion himself claims, not to mention marvel handbook itself directly states against it, addressing the statement. (EDIT: you yourself posted at lest one bio that says the same thing i said, note how the bio says, he "claims" as opposed to those being stated as facts.)

We also have the whole defination of what an abstract entity is, and that was "embodiment of universal concept" , its pretty hard to suggest there is only 1 oblivion.

The more consistency is actually backed the other way around, with every abstract being equal.

P.S: Only living being nullified by the UN goes to Oblivion's realm because of a technicality, they are not longer dead but erased into nothingness, everything doesnt. Ultimate Nullifier's power has never been linked to Oblivion, and there are couple of bios actually clearly stating UN source of power is unknown.

Do let me know if you want scans posted, most of these however are directly from handbooks.

@killemall: True, but at least those times it was shown Death could defeat them. I don't think anything was shown in relation to Death and the Chaos King. That said, I think Death would be more powerful.

may i see evidence of this? where does the handbook state that oblivion didn't exist before the multiverse?

it's stated (more than once) that eternity, infinity and death came from the big bang, oblivion isn't mentioned, and it makes perfect sense, considering he's the nothingness from which everything (the multiverse) sprang, otherwise what do you think created oblivion/nothingness?

i just looked the definition in the all new updated handbook, but i still disagree, the way i see it, there is no need for oblivion to have counterparts, because he doesn't represent a concept within a universe (unlike the other 3), he represents the nothingness/non-existence, what's the point of having multiple oblivion(s) when he represents something beyond the universal structure - the nothingness?

i think you misunderstood me here, it was never my intention to suggest that the UN's power directly comes from oblivion, my point was - even the most destructive weapon in the MU (which can nullify pretty much everyone below LT) is ineffective against oblivion, in fact there is nothing shown to be effective against him (note that iceman didn't "beat oblivion", it was just a physical form he took, and as we all know, oblivion is a metaphysical being) other abstracts - even eternity himself - are shown to be harmed or even outright die sometimes. That's an advantage oblivion has over the other abstracts, imo. That was my point.

Anymore?

I say Stalemate. Death wouldn't be remotely bothered by the nothingness of Oblivion and Oblivion can do nothing to Death.

oblivion

Death.