Fufuh

How was that calculated? There is an important point here to consider. Muzzle energy for bullets are calculated as Joules, a 28g hunting slug flying at 500m/s will deliver 3500 J of energy to a target for instance. The problem here is that energy is irrelevant in this context, what we want to know is force (so we can tell how much acceleration the head received, which is what knocks people out). J is equal to N.m, N being an unity of force. That means that 3500 J = 3500 N.m. N.m is equally useless, but we can establish some rules to determine force alone.

For instance, imagine I'm shooting that slug into a 30cm block of ballistic gel and the slug pierces a decent 20cm of that gel. That means I delivered the whole 3500 N.m of energy in 0.2m, for a total of 17.5 kN of force. However, let's say I changed the ballistic gel for something a bit harder, like a piece of rock. Now the bullet only pierces 5cm before stopping completely, transferring all that 3500 N.m of energy in just 0.05m, for a force of 70kN (4x more). Now let's say I changed it for an ultra dense metal and the bullet only dents it, with the dent depth being just 0.2cm, that's 17.5 million N of force, or 250x more than the force done to the rock, 1000x more than the ballistic gel (and therefore the human body).

Luke Cage's skin is impenetrable. So how much did the slug traveled before stopping completely? 10cm? 1cm? 0.1cm? That drastically changes the amount of force he'll receive from the slug.

I mean, my physics is a bit rusty so I might be totally wrong here, but I think the overall point still stands: without knowing how much the bullet traveled before fully transferring its energy to Luke's head, you can't assume how much force it did, so comparing it to Cap's punch in that context is irrelevant.

@nickzambuto said:

1) Goku was weakened by going x3 and otherwise being outmatched, Goku even states that he havent recuperated from the last attack yet. So it seems perfectly reasonable that Goku had lost more ki before engaging in the attack, giving Vegeta the upper hand, specially when Vegeta had charged his attack for longer (having a longer time to concentrate his ki). The difference between Kaioken x3 and Vegeta isnt that huge either (even if we consider Goku full >8000 power here), it was significantly inferior to that of Raditz and Goku for instance. Plus, this is nothing compared with what Tien did against SP Cell.

2) You cant really compare DB with DBZ tbh. Hell, even earlier DBZ moments tends to be outclassed sooner or later (like some power amps). Just look at Gohan, 1 year of training and he was already over twice as powerful as Goku was after the entirely of Dragon Ball. Most of your examples there are straight-out huge power differences, like Raditz being ~3x more powerful than Goku. And plus, the 1 year training from a "god" matched him with Vegeta (with Kaioken, winning even), a high-class saiyan, significantly outclassing Nappa (even without Kaioken he was twice as powerful, seems pretty far away from "evenly matched").

3) Vegeta is also often quite dumb, allowing his opponent the upper hand because "I'm the prince of saiyans!" and resorting to desperate half-measures when he realizes that doesnt mean shit. And this happens way too much.

Also, on the Kid Buu "toys around" situation, isn't a bit ironic that you posted that scan? With the last panel clearly having kid Buu goofing around? :P

This.

Remove the infinity gems or prep to make this more interesting. Otherwise we're looking at the smartest people at the MU with prep using the infinity gauntlet. That's pretty much Living Tribunal, solely because he can nullify the IG, or bust.

Kratos power, specially when comparing with other media, really comes down to his hax magic/relics. With GoW 3 gear he can flat out soul steal Doomsday. He's durable enough to take a few punches from DoS DD too. With GoW 2 he could probably push Doomsday into the flame of Olympus and kill him (by slowing down time significantly and literally pushing him into it, since it can kill anything) or alternatively slowing him down with the Medusa's head magic (which at least that it would do, since you could argue it wont fully petrified DD due to his durability and whatnot) and maybe Typhoon's bow, but dont know if counts.

Battles can become toxic due to people not wanting their favorite, super powerful character losing. But more often than not that's due to lack of information on both sides.

When you pitch characters from the same universe, it's hard to actually take off since the answer can be more hard cut, so there's generally not a lot of speculation. When people pitch character from different properties, but within the same medium, like a character from Marvel vs. a character from DC, things can get more heated, as there's more speculation, but people on both sides are generally more or less informed of the others capabilities, even if they dont read one of the universes. But when it gets to a character from comics vs. a character from a manga/anime, both with such huge fanbases, things can easily get toxic. We're in pure speculative territory as DB is written very differently and people on both sides tends to be more ignorant of the other as well.

It doesnt help when a major YouTube channel does such a poor job, making an entire fanbase very jumpy to similar arguments.

But he can even in the hardest difficulty, that's the difference. Your point of "gameplay is invalid" makes no sense when he does such thing consistently. If I was using gameplay for the sake of speculating abilities that he might not have, then it makes sense. Like, "he can create concrete out of thin air", therefore he can create a giant, planet-size concrete structure. No, because it's unrealistic. How is it unrealistic to say he took .50 cal shots and heal when he did so in-game and did so with handguns rounds in a cut-scene? Sure, the energy difference is pretty big, but not unrealistic. If he couldnt, he would've just died instantly from shots and the devs would balance the game around that, but no, they decided to allow the players to 'tank' them. I'm not basing myself here on that fact too, it's just a high-end healing feat - which is hard to find in cut-scenes when all the combat happens in-game. I mean, the dude dematerializes himself at will, Spider-Man isnt KO'ing someone like that, specially morals on, just like he never did so against Sandman.

And based on what that he was blacked out? A long transition? So let me get this straight: a long transition is enough to justify him blacking out - even though he didnt looked "I just woke up from a black out" at all, but using DIRECT and CONSISTENT gameplay evidence for a game which 99% of the combat didnt happened on cut-scenes is too unreliable? That's just hilarious.

He can use it to track things, even if he doesn't see it or pose an immediate threat:

He used it to track a helicopter, not a person. He also had time to "tune in", something he wont have being constantly attacked by constructs or in mid-combat. I mean did he even used it again? Specially on combat? The scan looks like its for the 80's, so I assume not? I wont really be considering one time abilities here, just like I wont consider Spider-Man being mach 2+.

Funny. The dude uses gameplay mechanics to try and justify pretty much all of his arguments, but when I use to simply counter his "a dozen AKM shots kills him" I'm "overhyping" Delsin? Seriously..

When did he got "KO'd by a shots from a handgun"? The only instance I remember him getting shot from handguns was in that cut-scene that I linked, when he was at his weakest and didnt even knew he had a healing factor. He simply fell down but was immediately up. That isnt "KO'd". Why would he even specifically say "FAST" healing, if he laid there for hours? Or why wouldnt the devs show him waking up instead? He had his eyes open when it showed him, didnt even looked like his just woke up either. The dude that shot him hardly moved too. And while that cut was a bit too long which can give that impression, his healing factor works pretty fast in-game, so no reason to doubt it didnt back then.

Spider-Man does indeed hits hard, but he isnt one-shotting Delsin - a dude that laughed at handgun shots and even on hard, due to gameplay mechanics, can take quite a lot of shots from .50 cal. Hell, I dont think he will even get that close to him at all before the fight's over. Not that anything Spider-Man does can take him out, like I said multiple times, the dudes dematerializes himself for the ease of travel. Spidey never defeated Sandman by pure physical force, why is he then "one-shotting" or even harming Delsin? It's the same thing.

Spider-sense is only useful if said invisible enemy is going to attack. But is not going to help him locate said target the same instance he goes invisible, that's not how it works, spider-sense isnt infra-red vision. And that's the point. It gives time for Delsin to get closer (he also has basic knowledge per OP), specially with his summons attacking and distracting both Spider-Man and his spider-sense, not counting some pop shots here and there, before he goes invisible again. Not that he absolutely needs it to get the win, it just gives him an extra edge to get the kill/KO'd.

You keep saying that like he was killed or seriously damage in the game - he wasnt. Gameplay wise I think it's pretty obvious why he isnt completely invulnerable, well, at least I hope so. He is though in mid-smoke dash, which was my point.

Because for some reason he couldnt use his powers? Dont know how him not being able to use his powers is a good argument to why he didnt used them, but ok. He got caught by surprise too btw, in a trap that Augustine set him - which says a lot if she didnt wanted to face him directly. He still have concrete armor too.

He never stated? He out loud says in that clip I sent "*laughs* this fast healing stuff is gonna come in really handy". Hell, even when he's shackled you can still see his healing factor kicking in when he gets shot or you know he's straight up healing powers? And again with the gameplay mechanics? Delsin CANT be invulnerable. He however soaks 5-10s of .50 caliber rounds even on harder difficulties (which is a lot more than dozen 7.62x39mm rounds, but not surprising low-balling is not surprising); and for all intents and purposes, Spidey MORALS ON punches arent nowhere near stronger than that. I mean Cap got killed by a few bullet from a pistol and yet he can give a morals on Spider-Man a run for his money in pure hand-2-hand, let alone be one-shot by him - and that's IN-GAME, he tanked the same amount of bullet Cap died right in the beginning of the game at his weakest, laughing at it, in a cut-scene.

And I'm still wondering how Spider-Man going to outsmart his passive healing factor..

He could use his webs, he just wont be able to. That's the difference. Augustine created a trap. Caught him by surprised and only managed to do so because she can create concrete out of thin air AND control it (see the clip again). Spider-Man isnt Augustine. Spidey needs to aim, at a distance, at a moving target neon-dashing, dematerializing, going invisible etc.. And even then, he needs to completely cover BOTH of Delsin's hands at the SAME time for that to work, otherwise he can still use his powers to get away. And while Reggie wont be there to help, well, guess what, Delsin has summons! So that's simply NOT going to happen, even if his spider-web does indeed work just like another conduit concrete powers which is pure speculation (it has nothing to do with strength here, but with origin and nature - webs arent solid, you need to keep covering it to "seal the cracks", which gives a possibility for Delsin's power to "flow" through it - like turning his hand into smoke; or maybe it worked because it's part of Augustine powerset which makes a lot of sense considering Delsin doesnt really need his hand for some of his powers - he isnt a magician).

And again with the gameplay mechanics.. Delsin didnt had any limitation to use neither invisibility (it was only limited by time, you could use it again after it ended, because again, it would had made him invulnerable) nor his flight (if he was on the ground for instance; it was an obvious gameplay limitation too so the video travel wouldnt be the single best travel power in the game; which really doesnt matter because he would still be in movement in the air anyway). It had limitations in game for obvious reasons like I mentioned, which I'm sure you going to keep ignoring. And so what with the nearly invisible? You could stand right in front of an enemy and he wouldnt notice, Spider-Man wouldnt too, specially at a distance and while getting constantly attacked by his summons.

He has a giant-ass digital swords that can take down armored helicopters, sharp concrete that he can create at will (which he could create inside Spider-Man's body too, just like Augustine did). Cutting through webs wont be a problem if Spider-Man ever managed to tag him with them in the first place with all his movement abilities.

And why does that page proofs? That one writer, one day, decided it was cool to suggest that Spider-Man can go at 1440mph with minimum acceleration time? Or how it was so stupid Marvel never hinted at that again? Plus, I mentioned "speed" for the sake of tagging Delsin, not to race him.

Never said that. You said that Spider-Man spider-sense wont notice Delsin because he isnt a threat. So if he isnt a threat, how come he can one-shot Spider-Man in 3 different ways? But if it's getting to the point of you needing to be literal to have any ground in the discussion, well..

And yeah, I forgot about the karmic bombs. So 6 ways then. Concrete in the inside; neon in the weak points; different melee range attacks; ranged tagged giant swords; 3 karmic bombs.

And when exactly has spider-sense detected invisible enemies without them attacking "first"? Scans? And yeah, forgot Spider-Man is supersonic, ok.

Erm, no? Video-games cant really show light-speed, so kinda obvious on that one. His run isnt because he doesnt turn himself into light, not that I couldnt be faster due to technological limitations. And no it doesnt, the OP clearly states both evil and good, fully upgraded powers. You can keep immobilizing targets at close range and it wont wear off. But shocking that you didnt know it such an easy detail; but show me again the 30-year old scan you googled that show Spider-Man is supersonic again..

So let's see:

Morals on Spider-Man is going to one-shot a dude that tanks dozens of .50 bullets by restraining him - well before he goes invisible, turns himself into smoke or neon - with webs - that his summons or constructs can cut him off if he needs to in the first place since he simply dematerializes himself and dash away. All that before said dude one-two-shots him with a weak-point hit - like he does so on meta-humans with armor in-game - or creates concrete on Spidey's inside - like Augustine did with dozens of people at once - or pierce him through with one of his digital swords that can destroy armored helicopters at either long-range (which follows tagged targets, so good lucking dodging that Spidey), or at melee - in which case he can also one-shot him by frying his inside with his smoke powers - while completely invisible and with his summons getting Spidey's attention.

Yeah, that's hard.

His smoke dash is a pretty failsafe dodge mechanic, you CAN use to avoid getting hurt and you'll never get killed in mid-dash, so technically yeah. And why would he stay in smoke form the entire game? He's still have to kill people. I mean, it is a game, you do realize that, right? You cant be invincible either. What matters is what it's shown in cut-scenes, like getting shot point-blank and laughing of how ridiculous your healing factor is (without even knowing it too btw; i.e. he doesnt need to stay as a smoke to tank Spider-Man's attack at all) and not putting on the hardest difficulty and letting yourself get killed by a random pedestrian with a rock. And no, I'm not saying he's impervious to any damage, just saying that any damage Spider-Man does to him (if he does it in the first place; Delsin has tons of tools to avoid getting hit), he'll regenerate just like he regenerate from those bullets, plain and simple; that's a replicated feat that he does across the entire game and more importantly, he does so in a cut-scene. Spider-Man simply cant permanently injured a dude that is constantly disintegrating himself, so what exactly can Spider-Man kill someone like that? Let alone one-shot with morals on, it's just not gonna happen. Delsin's pretty much Sandman here, but without Spider-Man being able to outsmart him.

Didnt say he couldnt use webs to trap his hand, just that we dont really know why the concrete blocked his powers; he isnt a magician, he doesnt need to use his hand for a lot of his powers, so why did it blocked it's still a mystery. Would a pair of handcuffs do the job too then? Will it cut powers already on (like summons)? His healing factor is probably still on either way. Saying something completely different is gonna do it is pure speculation. Point is: you cant know if webbing will block his powers and even if it does, who says Spider-Man could do it? Delsin can go permanently invisible, dash, run or fly at pretty fast speeds, he'll be very hard to tag, specially if your objective is to tie both of his hands together.

Yeah, a dude that can easily one-shot Spidey in 3 different ways without him even noticing with no spider-sense isnt really a threat to him at all. /s

AI would like to know how Spider-Man is going to consistently dodge a barrage of LIGHT beams that most definitely can 1/2-shot meta-humans with armor when he's constantly being attacked by summons/worrying about civilians, while Delsin is invisible, throwing explosives and most probably at close range too. But I guess aim-dodging a random, nameless tug is the same thing, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8QR5TAS22A @41:35

How he was "near fainted"? He was laughing on the ground; this was the first time he got shot on a cut-scene, he was merely shocked. The dude can literally turn into smoke and reform it, how is Spider-Man doing any damage to him at all, let alone one-shot him? Still waiting for an answer other than "but but he's said to able to lift 10 tons!". And no, Spider-Man couldnt do the same thing with his web because he doesnt have concrete powers, plain and simple (i.e. his powers can still flow through the webs). And how is spider-sense allowing him to see Delsin invisible? It'll only allow him to sense Delsin if and when he is going to attack him, but simply moving around? Repositioning? Evading Spidey attacks? No, it doesnt negate it at all.

So basically, we got a character that can legitimately one-shot the other at a distance (neon blasts on weak spots), go invisible, form and reform from pure smoke/video, can tank bullets no probs and can make a concrete armor; and yet Spider-Man gets the majority? There's no way.