BillyTheFox

@nickzambuto: I believe they did, yes. I know I read it somewhere...

Now, I haven't looked through a lot of this thread (but I did see the horrible little flame war...)...

Deathstroke or Predator? Honestly? I have no fricking clue. I mean, I guess I could be considered something of a Slade fanboy because I think he's awesome, but the first Predator movie is one of my favorite movies of all time. I'm a huge fan of both characters, and looking at it from that perspective, I just can't decide.

@decepticondave_ said:

first off revan is the most powerful sith/jedi in history, period :)

....

That was... really the one thing I paid attention to in your wall of text. Trust me, Revan is certainly one of the most powerful Force users in SW canon, but he's not Palpatine level. Hell, he wasn't even Vitiate level. He held Revan captive for three centuries or so before Revan finally got free.

And you're telling me that Revan had more Force Potential than Anakin Skywalker, who was himself conceived by the Force in order to bite back at Plagueis and Palps for screwing with the midi-chlorians? I don't think so.

Regardless of that, we're getting off-topic. The topic is the 3-on-3 battle we're supposed to be talking about.

@decepticondave_ said:

@BillyTheFox: Windu was one of the greatest swordsmen of his time. He defeated Sora Bulq during their duel on Ruul and overwhelmed Asajj Ventress shortly afterwards. Windu also overwhelmed Count Dooku during the battle of Boz Pity and even managed to defeat Darth Sidious himself; a feat that even Grand Master Yoda had been unable to accomplish. Cited from wookiepedia, the feats mace windu has done clearly out matches any of the sith here, since hes beaten 2 of them already?

Hey, I'm not saying that Mace couldn't do it-- personally, I think he DID out-duel Palpatine, George Lucas' words be damned. But you have to remember, Palpatine, in terms of Force Potential, is canonically the most powerful Sith Lord in history (though if Vader had not lost his limbs, HE would have taken that honor; Palps even said so). Sora Bulq and even Dooku were nowhere near his level of Force power, and neither was Mace. When it comes to those that can duel Palpatine on even footing, so far only four people have been able to do so: Mace Windu, Yoda, Luke Skywalker, and Galen Marek.

Granted, the fight between Marek and Palps was... Ugh. Just, ugh.

@decepticondave_: In the Episode III novelization, though, Mace didn't handle Palp "easily" at all. He even admitted to himself that Vaapad alone couldn't beat Palpatine. And if Yoda ever gave into his anger and used the Dark Side to unleash his potential... Gawd, can you IMAGINE the kind of havoc he could wreak if he wanted?! It's absurd!

Also in the Episode III novel, Yoda stopped fighting Palpatine because, in his words, "he had lost before he had begun" (that may be a paraphrase). Palpatine was a member of the Rule of Two, which was an evolved doctrine of the Sith. The less Sith there were, the more powerful they could be, so it was limited to two. The Jedi, however, had spent the last thousand years since the end of the New Sith Wars training to fight the Old Sith Order, not Bane's Rule of Two, so Yoda couldn't actually adapt.

Of course, this is all hypothetical. I for one was more interested in the lightsaber portion of their duel when I watched.

@AweSam said:

That depends, who has the high ground?

I see what you did there...

Wow...

If we're going in terms of lightsaber skills, I'd say that it would be a very, very long fight with people very equally matched, and that it would likely be a stalemate. In terms of Force powers, though.... Well, all six of them are adept with the Force in various ways, but only Yoda and Palps have actual mastery of the Force in ways that make the others look like chumps by comparison. So by the end they'd be the only ones left standing, and if the battle were more drawn out, I find it likely that Yoda could pull out the win for his team, even though Palps is said to be stronger in the Force (in the Episode III novel, at least). Yoda has nearly 900 years of experience on his side, whereas Palps would be in his sixties by Episode III I believe. So if Yoda can come up with a way to outsmart Palps, he'd be the ultimate winner in this 3 on 3 bout.

Okay, I know we're not really supposed to bump threads that haven't been posted in for a really long time, but I got to thinking today about Captain America fighting Bane and I just had to find a discussion here, and I felt like I had to reply. I apologize in advance to any mods that might see this.

I had forgotten that they had actually fought once in a crossover, but after reading through this thread I can't see why that is considered illegitimate evidence in Cap's favor.

Breaking it down statistically: Cap's abilities are traditionally said to be at the pinnacle of human ability without being considered superhuman; though people say that it is not possible to possess all of the best physical and mental traits a human can have at the same time, we don't necessarily know if that's true or not. Maybe in the next few decades some scientific breakthrough akin to the Super Solider Serum will happen, y'know? Science is always changing, never set in stone.

Now Bane... well, whereas Steve needed the Serum to get to where he is now, Bane didn't. Bane was able to train himself to peak human physical perfection, is a natural polymath and has photographic memory (which, I've read, Steve does as well). They both have the same fighting ability as far as I can see, as both have been shown to be on equal footing with Batman, who is one of DC's greatest martial artists, if not the greatest. Both Cap and Bane have peak human reflexes as well. Steve may not be as knowledgeable as Bane in general, but he matches Bane where it counts the most in this scenario.

Now, Bane can bolster his body beyond its natural limits with Venom, but Cap has shown countless times that with enough training and ability, he can overcome superhumans in fights. Cap has more experience than Bane, both because of his in-universe exploits and, from a meta perspective, he's been around far longer than Bane (over fifty years between them to be exact).

In my mind, I picture this as being a very long, very drawn out fight that is extremely close. However, in the end, I have to give the fight to Cap. Why? The Serum is active in his body constantly, automatically replenishing itself. He is always at his top physical condition unless the Serum is removed. While Bane can outlast many opponents, Cap can outlast him.

Anyways, that's just my take on this. I doubt anyone will respond-- and if a mod does, advance; I just felt the urge to say what was going through my mind.

@Coluber said:

I certainly don't like the name change (Captain Thunder would have been much better, even if Mary Marvel is still in a quandry with regards her name). Shazam is the name of the wizard, and the magic word which transforms Billy into his superpowered alter ego. I certainly don't understand the arguments used to justify the change, nor do I understand those who think this is a good idea. Captain Marvel has never been called Shazam as some might say; his character has been marketed with the name Shazam. This is a boneheaded move.

To my knowledge, Shazam is merely an alias the Wizard took upon ascending to apparent godhood, and his real name is Jebediah of Canaan.When I think about it, "Shazam", being itself an acronym and a magic word, is not simply a name, or at least it shouldn't be just a name. I'd like to think of it as a title, in the same vein of those who become the various Doctor Fate incarnations. In my mind, back when Shazam "died" and Billy took over, he should have been referred to as "Shazam", as he had ascended to the Wizard's position and they continued to use that word for their transformations (well, Freddy didn't, and that's honestly something I've never understood).

As for the name change itself... I'm not sure what to think. I certainly like the use of "Captain Marvel" as Billy's alias, but after the thoughts like what I explained above, the name change itself makes perfect sense, at least if you apply the scenario of Billy ascending to the position of the Wizard Shazam. Whether that will be the case is doubtful, as Billy... didn't really do a good job as "Lord Marvel" it appears. Though I admit, I think his re-designed physical appearance as "Marvel" was awesome, so it would be cool, to me at least, if that design came back.

@TheCrowbar: Wait, so Wolvie DID have something going on with Lady Deathstrike? I always figured...