AgeofHurricane's forum posts

Avatar image for ageofhurricane
#1 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7699 posts) - - Show Bio

Not a fan of Bunn's passive and somewhat timid Ororo. Her interaction with Medusa should have been teeming with alot more enmity but then I don't really see him as that strong of a writer anyhow. That entire scene felt..fake, somehow. Like it was trying to be serious but failed.

Avatar image for ageofhurricane
#2 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7699 posts) - - Show Bio

1). Claremont/Seagle...Morrison...in intermittent and inconsistent increments.

2). Bendis/Simonson.

3). Claremont. Claremont most definitely. ;(

Avatar image for ageofhurricane
#3 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7699 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

Was/is the gradual depletion of financial support and commercial popularity (as evinced by Diamond Comics monthly listings of comic titles sales, in which a lugubrious number of us bore unfortunate witness to the plummeting of Ororo’s solo series through the ranks, month after sordid month) the true culprit for the discontinuation of her solo after a meagre (not even the standardized 12-issue minimum that is allotted to all ongoing series unless it undergoes a change and becomes a mini) 11 issues? Or is there something more? Something deeper?

No Caption Provided

This is an issue that’s been irking me, and I would innocently assume a plethora of other Storm fans too, for quite some time now, and I think it warrants further discussion and expatiation that such a prominent character’s first outing as a solo artist should be severed after an embarrassingly short period of time.

Pseudo-context

Following the Claremont-invoked renaissance epoch that the X-Men luxuriated in circa 1975 in addition to Ororo’s introduction and Claremont’s subsequent positioning of the character as an integral component of the aforementioned team (said team has very much accrued something of an international following in the comics circle and beyond) in addition to her being its leader for an extensive milieu and attaining a gamut of commendable accomplishments in her bag, I think it safe to say that she had since been established as a prevalent figure to which many a fan took an absolute liking to not only because of her characteristic authority but also because of the multi-faceted aspects of her character’s existence, being and human-mutant condition. Claremont, with his affinity for gorging his female characters on psychologically and physically debilitating episodes of rigorous character arcs, very much managed to cultivate in Ororo a multi-dimensional being (to varying degrees, of course, but the preponderant potential for exploration was and still is there), possessed of many avenues for character progression and saucy development. During the (IMO) pinnacle of her character’s tenure circa the latter days of the Bronze Age Comics one could have pondered the anomaly of Ororo not being shortlisted for having the necessary prerequisites applicable where being a solo character is concerned. Wolverine received one that was initially catalysed by the writer who is responsible for the axiomatic aspects of Ororo’s character, so why not she? Is it just a par-for-the-course case of her being another tragedy of draconian corporate comic book conventions and social politics of that time? Or is the below assertion an apt justification for that milieu? But what about the ages that have passed since then? Why did it take near enough 4 decades for Ororo to be finally greenlit for a solo series—the questionable circumstances regarding that notwithstanding?

A lot of us have nauseatingly disputed the supposition of her character and her mythos being so heavily ingrained in X-Men lore that it’d be purportedly unfeasible for her to disassociate herself from that narrative for the purpose of carrying a successful title that was defined by its own idiosyncratic merits respective to its own narrative and Ororo’s character, and whilst it’s debatable, there’s unequivocal evidence to the contrary. Of course, looking back at the essential elements that were integral to the solo’s presentation and Greg Pak’s overall execution…I can see why many detractors would gravitate towards that egregious belief.

Ambiguity

In regards to the questionable circumstances that the series’ conception was mired in, I was vaguely referencing ex-ineffectual chief editor of X, Nick Lowe, and his apparent stamp of approval as stated by Pak that seemingly effectuated the series seeing the light of day. Lowe presided over the technical logistics of the X-Men comics for a substantial increment in their existence, and oversaw the development, popularization and utilization of a select coterie of X-Men bar Ororo, depending on your perspective. His approach to fan umbrage and valid points of contentions that dedicated fans of X would repeatedly bring to light ranged from either blatantly circumventing the queries with deflection, or contriving to produce a convoluted answer for the pacification of malcontent fans. The previous decade for the X-Men as a whole was a relatively dismal one and his ostensible lack of commiserative action where fans were concerned very much contributed to that malady. This is the man who spoke of ‘Ororo’s voice being heard’ in Schism, wherein she was featured in about two panels decrying generic non sequiturs, and again he and some other writers went on to boast about her prominence in AvX wherein her integral character arc was surmised in a handful of panels and infinitesimal statements. Deceptive amelioration after deceptive amelioration and there’s perceptibly no light at the end of this tunnel for the time being (despite the fact that running concurrently with AvX, was Brian Wood’s X-Men in which we witnessed the revitalization and reinstatement of Ororo’s character, to an extent, and this served as a rock of refuge for those stormy days).

Getting back to the nitty gritty—a bank of hypothetical factors abound and are contributory determinants to the failure of her series, and chronologically speaking I think Marvel’s treatment of its commercial promotion, press and disclosure to the comic-oriented public was one of the largest, if not the largest misstep that had been undertaken. I think it was fellow fan butterflykyss who brought the then uncorroborated news of Ororo’s solo series being officialised to the community on sister site CBR, and as far as anyone else was concerned…that was the first time they had heard tell of what should have been a wildly hyped and promulgated revelation. Why did the conceptual clarification of Storm’s solo receive little to no hype or build-up—where were the press events or televised soundbites discussing the intersectional significance of Marvel’s most prominent black superheroine receiving her first solo outing? Are the implications that can be extracted from these dour predicaments reflective of the exponential decline in interest and popularity where Ororo is concerned as a result of her, to put it kindly, mishandling under the penmanship of several writers over the decades? Is this an indictment of the depletion of perceptive integrity and subsequent lack of faith that wider fan-base held/hold in Ororo’s character and her ideologies and how all of that would have been integrated into a compelling series?

We can talk about the haphazard implementation of a solo series and its incongruity considering that particular juncture of Ororo’s life and the deficit of synergy and overarching narrative cohesion in respect to what she was going through and had fundamentally been mired in at that time and whether or not a solo series was simply another catalyst for further convolution or whether or not it could have been instrumental in the absolute re-definition of Ororo’s character arc going forward—but the fact of the matter remains: its cessation is marred with mystery and speculative hubbub.

So, Storm fans and devout Raindrops alike—what are your thoughts on the matter? What do you think could have been done to maintain the series aloft? Was it even a problem with the series itself and more with some facet of Ororo’s character arc as has been alluded to?

Questions, questions, questions…

Avatar image for ageofhurricane
#4 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7699 posts) - - Show Bio

I voted Rogue.

Magneto is likely a better leader in general but has yet to prove himself as a better X-Men leader. Wolverine is better suited to lead a group like X-Force. Beast was cool but he lacked charisma, and never wanted the job to begin with. I liked Nightcrawler as leader but he lacked self-confidence. Jean has potential but a bad track record. Angel was only co-leader with Nightcrawler. I don't remember Havok leading the X-Men.

Indeed.

Of course I don't really think Wolverine has any business being the governing or authoritative body of whatever coterie of individuals because he's too much of an inconsistent hypocrite, prone to sanctimonious condescension and pontificating to others (Rachel and Scott respectively) whilst forgetting the fundamental tenets that make a leader in and of themselves.

Other than Rogue, I would additionally nominate Siryn (I can intellectually dispute this), Kitty, Sam and Dani Moonstar.

Avatar image for ageofhurricane
#5 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7699 posts) - - Show Bio

@devilsgrin81 said:
@jhazzroucher said:
@stormphoenix said:
@sinistersoul said:

Better then Cyclops.

Agreed.

I'm not going to say better. I'd say they're equal only that Storm's leader conforms more to the X-men's vision.

different in style and approach. But still Storm is overall a better leader. I've always preferred the idea of Cyclops as a field commander. He lacks something as a General imho. I think it comes down to their basic leadership potential/actualisation.

Cyclops was trained to be a leader, due to his analytical and tactical accumen being significant even as a teenager. He's shown his leadership skills are formiddable, in fact i'd put him on par with Mister Fantastic, and even perhaps Captain America - both of whom are fantastic squad leaders but who farq up big time when given larger authority.

Storm was instead born to be a leader. Her's is the charisma that draws others to follow her. She's learned to bring forth her own tactical and strategic talents, and i'll admit, as a tactician she may indeed be inferior to Cyclops. As a leader of people however, she is infinitely superior. There's an old adage that reads "those who want power should never have it, those who abjure it, should wield it." Cyclops wants to lead, and through that road corruption and tyranny lie. Storm does it because she must, and whilst power can in and of itself can lead to corruption, her questioning herself keeps her honest. Tho on the field of battle she is usually not afflicted by such second-guessing anymore. She makes the decisions, and the harder calls fairly smoothly these days

Well, TBQH, I think you have it backwards. Cyclops has always been shown to be a born leader. There is a reason why he's generally called "right behind Captain America." It says so on one of his comic cards. I never felt that Storm is a natural leader - it doesn't come naturally to her, and her characterization tends to suffer when she's in that position. I actually find it quite interesting that their characters basically admitted as such - Cyclops was assigned the leader because he was a natural, but Storm became a leader because she felt he was no longer up to the task. This is a character beat that had been established for decades, and even when you read the issue where she defeated him in a Danger Room scenario, she basically acknowledges that he is better than her, but was no longer performing at full potential. I love both of these characters because of how symbiotic their relationship is - when Cyclops falls or fails, Storm takes over, but when Storm is tired or overwhelmed, Cycops gives the team structure and guidance. I just love how empowering that message is, and don't think it gets enough attention in storylines.

This sounds like contradictory claptrap for the sake of being a contrarian, and not because it's a point of contention that adheres to years of canonical establishment--but because it simply doesn't subject itself to the concrete history and mythoi of the respective characters in question. I could square with the perceived discomfort on Ororo's part if we were strictly basing that off of, like, her first 5 issues after attaining the position--but not after everything that's transpired since that initial interlude and all that she's accomplished amid that epoch--it just doesn't fit and make any coherent sense. It doesn't come naturally to her? Her characterization suffers when she's in that position? Does her characterization suffer as a result of her being in that position, as you posit, or is it as a result of her being penned by writers that cannot comprehend the complexities behind her character's fundamental tenets and personal philosophies?

What is correct characterization of Ororo according to you, anyhow?

Avatar image for ageofhurricane
#6 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7699 posts) - - Show Bio

"Oya is from some part of Africa..."???

It's called NIGERIA. The country that she hails from is called NIGERIA. Africa has never been a homogenous monolith.

smfh

The ignorance is serious.

Avatar image for ageofhurricane
#7 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7699 posts) - - Show Bio

Fraction sucks. Greg Land sucks. The X-Men hang out on an island and argue during that run. Fraction writes hipster dialogue and captions because he is a hipster. White hipsters are the worst.

This is an extremely apt summation of Fraction's contributions to the mythos.

#Claremont4Life because those poll results are dismal and blasphemous. Mhm.

Avatar image for ageofhurricane
#8 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7699 posts) - - Show Bio

@adamtrmm: But don't you think it's a little restrictive to confine X-Force to your proposed parochial operative? I just think that to invalidate the credibility of a bonafide X-Force on the stipulation that their ethos isn't contingent on killing kind of hinders the breadth and potentiality for stories and development. You can have an X-Force squad differentiated in principle strictures, bereft of killing, that doesn't become interchangeable with your average X-Men team, is all I'm thinking.

Avatar image for ageofhurricane
#9 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7699 posts) - - Show Bio
@adamtrmm said:

Since after rejuvenation of the concept, the classic approach to X-force is completely redundant. If it's not a kill squad, it can comfortably be the X-men team, even if it's a strike brigade, but still loyal to what X-men...

But do you actually know what the "classic" approach to X-Force is?

Avatar image for ageofhurricane
#10 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7699 posts) - - Show Bio

Really and truly, the fact of the matter is that you never got anywhere by exercising peripheral measures. You never got anywhere by refraining from striking the source of the problem and you most certainly didn't get very far by sitting on your hands hoping that things would get better (wtf?!?!).