I've been a longtime Marvel fan. Never caught up to the curve with DC...until the New 52. Now I gotta admit, I look forward to DC releases more. Why? Because it's been scaled back, and everything that was old is new again. It's GREAT. I'm not lost, and I can wrap my head around it without a comics encyclopedia. Marvel has been ratcheting up the abilities of their characters for a long time now, and they're starting to not even make sense. The plot lines and world/rogues galleries are inseparable anymore. I'm sure DC went through it too, in fact, I'm pretty sure that's what the Silver Age was all about if I'm not mistaken.

Any other Marvel fans wish Marvel would quit throwing shiny objects out there and bigger badder baddies, more PIS BS, and return to relate-able characters and decent writing for a change?

That's what made Marvel great, but now I feel like I have to go to DC to get what Marvel used to be good at.

nope

I for one agree. I'm relatively new to comics and I like Marvel characters better but DCs New 52 has been really cool and easy to jump on. I like the idea that every title is on the same issue. Some titles like Scarlet Spider that just began should continue.

@Duke_Nasty said:

I for one agree. I'm relatively new to comics and I like Marvel characters better but DCs New 52 has been really cool and easy to jump on. I like the idea that every title is on the same issue. Some titles like Scarlet Spider that just began should continue.

Yah that's a plus too. Everyone's at the same stage of character development. Really wish Marvel would get back to basics. I'm saving comics for my son, but since Marvel's such a heap, New 52 is the only series I'm getting 2 of for him, one to read and one to save.

Marvel resets itself constantly, DC does when they feel they have to.

@Deadcool said:

Marvel resets itself constantly, DC does when they feel they have to.

True, but the New 52 seems like a really clean slate, and it was all at once. Marvel has bungled that sort of thing with the Avengers and Spiderman twice in my memory now. They also completely screwed up Thor with one of their "resets."

Guess maybe it all comes down to Marvel actually getting writers who can do the characters justice.

despite whats been said thats what marvel NOW is gonna do and that why im dropping marvel lol

it would seriously be a breaking point for me....I loved DC before the reboot...I don't think there was any reason for the reboot all of the great stories being told now could have been told in the old universe just fine.....I don't want to offend anyone but I said this in another tread before....new comic readers have it easy...you have sites like ComicVine and with Amazon you have access to any trade you want....if you're having a hard time getting into the current Marvel or were having a hard time getting into the pre Flashpoint DC then you're just being lazy....DC has made it abundantly clear that they really only care about the new readers and have done nothing to try and please the old readers...we invested time in money in the old DC characters and now some of them are pale reflections of their previous selves or in some cases some of our favorite characters no longer even exist....if they want to make it easier for new readers then they should have increased their trade production (which they have) and made it clearer as to what trades and in what order they need to be read to get a clear picture of the character's past....Marvel currently has the advantage in terms of continuity with the fact that they haven't ever rebooted...DC made their universe more difficult to get into with Crisis on Infinite Earths, Zero Hour, and Infinite Crisis...where as Marvel just slightly tweaks their characters' backstories to make them a little more modern....if they were to reboot completely it would mean the loss of more than 70 years of story...there are tons of readers who have read even longer than I have and I think that would be a serious slap to the face to their long term readers

@danhimself said:

nope

yes, definatally. It's a great jumping point, if done correctly it can solve plot and continuity points etc....

But we'll see what Marvel NOW brings. It could have some of that, but not totally, like New 52 (which was a great move and still seem to be IMO)

@Typhion said:

True, but the New 52 seems like a really clean slate, and it was all at once. Marvel has bungled that sort of thing with the Avengers and Spiderman twice in my memory now. They also completely screwed up Thor with one of their "resets."

Guess maybe it all comes down to Marvel actually getting writers who can do the characters justice.

Which one? JMS's? Gillen's? or Fraction's?

Well, twith marvel NOW we wold get new creative team for each comicbook, so lets see what would happen.

@SoA said:

despite whats been said thats what marvel NOW is gonna do and that why im dropping marvel lol

What? No!!! They would relaunch Marvel, is not a reboot, they would just change the creative teams of each book ("on DC that is called Wednesday" Dan Slott), and create a point where anyone could start reading, as I said no reboot.

Nope. Marvel has too much great history for it to be erased.

Sure if its handled well, why not?

nope

it would seriously be a breaking point for me....

@Duke_Nasty said:

I for one agree. I'm relatively new to comics and I like Marvel characters better but DCs New 52 has been really cool and easy to jump on. I like the idea that every title is on the same issue. Some titles like Scarlet Spider that just began should continue.

Agree

@Duke_Nasty said:

I for one agree. I'm relatively new to comics and I like Marvel characters better but DCs New 52 has been really cool and easy to jump on. I like the idea that every title is on the same issue. Some titles like Scarlet Spider that just began should continue.

Preach

LOL The NEW PEOPLE can hope for this

Us VETS will simply decline

Ain't nothin hot about that idea

Read the Ultimate universe

No, I absolutely wish the opposite in fact. DC was trailing Marvel money wise, and so the people who care about money, and hey, money is important don't get me wrong, so I don't begrudge the people who care about money's decisions, but the people who care about money who can influence what happens at DC, decided, you know what? We think one thing that is preventing us from getting more money is accessibility of our product to casual fans and noise and attention. Lets change that by doing this new 52 thing that will make noise and tell lots of people that they can jump right in with number one issues. Side note - lets try do his without actually losing too many fans as well.  
 
Now for me personally, I don't read comics for ease of getting into or freshness. I like reading comics for quality, and most of my favorite comic books are accessible, are easy to wrap my head around, use continuity and characterization well and have easter eggs for its fans who have read a lot from its character pasts and the books past. Books from writers like PAD and Slott. I am less about perceptions and ore about actualities. A problem presents itself though, in that more and more casual fans and newer audiences in most mediums are getting varied, and so trying to appeal to them with quality is getting harder and harder, and so selling by perceptions is getting easier and easier, and trying to do both is requiring more creativity and more risk.  
 
For the sake of making a point, a hyper exaggerated example would be that in trying to make more short term profit by appealing to new fans, you could end up with a scenario where all books from either company is rebooted every year @hashtag lulz what u 16 yrold + fans gott irrelevant DC/Marvel books 4 my tablet only nao lulz Superman/Batman concept is that they are reality TV stars who got mad pop on Utube after Beiber tweeted them so much more accessible and fresh and relatable and non convoluted than space planets and dead parents lulz #WTF  #=3 #Your hyper exaggerated example sucks.   
 
So basically throwing a reboot out there by Marvel would be just throwing out the biggest shiny thing they could. Where as Journey Into Mystery? Thats decent writing. X-Factor? Decent writing. Quite a few books at Marvel have decent writing, and probably why Marvel is attempting to have its cake and eat it too, with Marvel NOW, which is going to try and make as much noise as New 52 while trying to appease as many long term fans who care about continuity as well.          

DC's reboot is a mess. Popular characters were sidelined for those editorial liked. That's not something I want to happen again. Not to mention, DCnU isn't a clean slate. If it was, it would've involved bringing everyone back to the beginning of their careers, which would've been bad for long time readers. Marvel rebooting their main universe would do nothing for long term readers. Marvel's universe is in need of a refresher for sure though. They've had too many events, which messed up the feel of the universe.

yes, but only to annoy the Marvel fans :P

As far as I'm concerned, there is no need for resets and starting points in comics. Everyone has a fairly good idea what a character is about and that he fights criminals. Back issues are there for a reason. The industry just doesn't know how to incorporate modernism and establish a set standard for characters. Instead, everyone in the Avengers now cracks jokes like Spider-Man because a certain someone is a sorry sad-sack of stupid.

Marvel's fine as it is. I'm enjoying the DC reboot and buy more DC than Marvel but Marvel doesn't need to copy its rival. Whilst they're insisting Marvel Now! is just a shake up of the Marvel universe, it's still in the same vein as DC's reboot was last year, to change their characters and boost sales of their titles.

Is it possible to have relatable characters and decent writing without a "reset"?

Not me.

I do

No

If Marvel pulls a DC, I'm dropping the 616 universe.....they won't, but that is my threat for if they do

Hell no!

@White Mage said:

LOL The NEW PEOPLE can hope for this

Us VETS will simply decline

Ain't nothin hot about that idea

Read the Ultimate universe

NEW PEOPLE are what will keep franchises going. If you can't bring people into the fold, this stuff will eventually go away, which would be sad. If Marvel doesn't find a way to ground itself it will continue to pump out mediocre product and die an ugly death. Can't live on movies alone. Eventually the base that makes those movies will go away.

Get off your high horse. You act like you've done something significant with your life by reading comics.

@Typhion said:

@White Mage said:

LOL The NEW PEOPLE can hope for this

Us VETS will simply decline

Ain't nothin hot about that idea

Read the Ultimate universe

NEW PEOPLE are what will keep franchises going. If you can't bring people into the fold, this stuff will eventually go away, which would be sad. If Marvel doesn't find a way to ground itself it will continue to pump out mediocre product and die an ugly death. Can't live on movies alone. Eventually the base that makes those movies will go away.

Get off your high horse. You act like you've done something significant with your life by reading comics.

You're right. A company can't live on movies alone........they can however live on movies, cartoons, video games, toy lines, and online gaming. It's not like it will be THAT hard. In fact, I believe they've been doing this since before I was even born.......and they've managed to do just fine. Have I done something special by reading comics? No. I haven't. But the suggestion is as stupid as expecting Grey's Anatomy to go back to season 1 so that we can see alternate universe versions of characters that we've already become attached to. ERASING an entire UNIVERSE'S HISTORY is dumb as hell, because it isolates the fans that are already around, in hopes of MAYBE attracting "extras".

Me and my horsey are just fine. Me and my horsey also assist with wikia's like THIS ONE in order to help new users/outdated readers to actually catch up........Why should WE have to adjust just because other people are late?

This ish is for the birds.....and they don't even want it

@White Mage said:

@Typhion said:

@White Mage said:

LOL The NEW PEOPLE can hope for this

Us VETS will simply decline

Ain't nothin hot about that idea

Read the Ultimate universe

NEW PEOPLE are what will keep franchises going. If you can't bring people into the fold, this stuff will eventually go away, which would be sad. If Marvel doesn't find a way to ground itself it will continue to pump out mediocre product and die an ugly death. Can't live on movies alone. Eventually the base that makes those movies will go away.

Get off your high horse. You act like you've done something significant with your life by reading comics.

You're right. A company can't live on movies alone........they can however live on movies, cartoons, video games, toy lines, and online gaming. It's not like it will be THAT hard. In fact, I believe they've been doing this since before I was even born.......and they've managed to do just fine. Have I done something special by reading comics? No. I haven't. But the suggestion is as stupid as expecting Grey's Anatomy to go back to season 1 so that we can see alternate universe versions of characters that we've already become attached to. ERASING an entire UNIVERSE'S HISTORY is dumb as hell, because it isolates the fans that are already around, in hopes of MAYBE attracting "extras".

Me and my horsey are just fine. Me and my horsey also assist with wikia's like THIS ONE in order to help new users/outdated readers to actually catch up........Why should WE have to adjust just because other people are late?

This ish is for the birds.....and they don't even want it

QFT

@White Mage said:

If Marvel pulls a DC, I'm dropping the 616 universe.....they won't, but that is my threat for if they do

QFT x 2!

@White Mage said:

@Typhion said:

@White Mage said:

LOL The NEW PEOPLE can hope for this

Us VETS will simply decline

Ain't nothin hot about that idea

Read the Ultimate universe

NEW PEOPLE are what will keep franchises going. If you can't bring people into the fold, this stuff will eventually go away, which would be sad. If Marvel doesn't find a way to ground itself it will continue to pump out mediocre product and die an ugly death. Can't live on movies alone. Eventually the base that makes those movies will go away.

Get off your high horse. You act like you've done something significant with your life by reading comics.

You're right. A company can't live on movies alone........they can however live on movies, cartoons, video games, toy lines, and online gaming. It's not like it will be THAT hard. In fact, I believe they've been doing this since before I was even born.......and they've managed to do just fine. Have I done something special by reading comics? No. I haven't. But the suggestion is as stupid as expecting Grey's Anatomy to go back to season 1 so that we can see alternate universe versions of characters that we've already become attached to. ERASING an entire UNIVERSE'S HISTORY is dumb as hell, because it isolates the fans that are already around, in hopes of MAYBE attracting "extras".

Me and my horsey are just fine. Me and my horsey also assist with wikia's like THIS ONE in order to help new users/outdated readers to actually catch up........Why should WE have to adjust just because other people are late?

This ish is for the birds.....and they don't even want it

Erasing an entire universes history is just fine when it's recent history is a dumpster fire of inconsistency in scale and personality of it's characters without a clear reboot. That's what Marvel has become. I'd agree that Marvel could live in toons and games as well...if they didn't stink at that. The only Marvel game worth the time to look at was X-men legends 1. Cartoons? Well they dropped AEMH of course. They can't keep the X-men on for more than 2 seasons in any incarnation. They flop on spider man animated series about every 3 years. What is Marvel doing that's pushing them to the next generation? Toy's don't mean jack unless there's a story to go behind it, and it doesn't turn back around the other way very well (GI JOE, Battleship, and if you think transformers was good, then you're sharp as a bowling ball.)

They're just capitalizing on the boomers and the children of the 80's.

Why are you attached to a fictitious history, when the universe is so badly mangled? What of value is there to recall now? Additionally, the history is there for those who wish to recall it as it was. Those stories don't go away to those who've read them. You're comparing Marvel to Grey's Anatomy. Lol, try Days of Our Lives. That's the kinda show that allows characters to evolve, devolve, be terribly written and still survive in 12 different incarnations while saying it's all one continuity.

I'm not buyin it. Keeping a broken universe for the sake of a few rabid fanboys' sentiment is dumb as hell. It compromises the value of the product, and alienates people who like good writing, strong back story and larger arcs that don't need escalation of scale to stay interesting. In short, Marvel is losing its smart and eclectic audience. If they can actually hire good writers, who can just ignore the pitiful recent history of the franchise, and get back to basics, then fine, but if they can't, then it's time to reboot.

@Typhion said:

@White Mage said:

@Typhion said:

@White Mage said:

LOL The NEW PEOPLE can hope for this

Us VETS will simply decline

Ain't nothin hot about that idea

Read the Ultimate universe

NEW PEOPLE are what will keep franchises going. If you can't bring people into the fold, this stuff will eventually go away, which would be sad. If Marvel doesn't find a way to ground itself it will continue to pump out mediocre product and die an ugly death. Can't live on movies alone. Eventually the base that makes those movies will go away.

Get off your high horse. You act like you've done something significant with your life by reading comics.

You're right. A company can't live on movies alone........they can however live on movies, cartoons, video games, toy lines, and online gaming. It's not like it will be THAT hard. In fact, I believe they've been doing this since before I was even born.......and they've managed to do just fine. Have I done something special by reading comics? No. I haven't. But the suggestion is as stupid as expecting Grey's Anatomy to go back to season 1 so that we can see alternate universe versions of characters that we've already become attached to. ERASING an entire UNIVERSE'S HISTORY is dumb as hell, because it isolates the fans that are already around, in hopes of MAYBE attracting "extras".

Me and my horsey are just fine. Me and my horsey also assist with wikia's like THIS ONE in order to help new users/outdated readers to actually catch up........Why should WE have to adjust just because other people are late?

This ish is for the birds.....and they don't even want it

Erasing an entire universes history is just fine when it's recent history is a dumpster fire of inconsistency in scale and personality of it's characters without a clear reboot. That's what Marvel has become. I'd agree that Marvel could live in toons and games as well...if they didn't stink at that. The only Marvel game worth the time to look at was X-men legends 1. Cartoons? Well they dropped AEMH of course. They can't keep the X-men on for more than 2 seasons in any incarnation. They flop on spider man animated series about every 3 years. What is Marvel doing that's pushing them to the next generation? Toy's don't mean jack unless there's a story to go behind it, and it doesn't turn back around the other way very well (GI JOE, Battleship, and if you think transformers was good, then you're sharp as a bowling ball.)

They're just capitalizing on the boomers and the children of the 80's.

Why are you attached to a fictitious history, when the universe is so badly mangled? What of value is there to recall now? Additionally, the history is there for those who wish to recall it as it was. Those stories don't go away to those who've read them. You're comparing Marvel to Grey's Anatomy. Lol, try Days of Our Lives. That's the kinda show that allows characters to evolve, devolve, be terribly written and still survive in 12 different incarnations while saying it's all one continuity.

I'm not buyin it. Keeping a broken universe for the sake of a few rabid fanboys' sentiment is dumb as hell. It compromises the value of the product, and alienates people who like good writing, strong back story and larger arcs that don't need escalation of scale to stay interesting. In short, Marvel is losing its smart and eclectic audience. If they can actually hire good writers, who can just ignore the pitiful recent history of the franchise, and get back to basics, then fine, but if they can't, then it's time to reboot.

I'm confused as to why you pin pointed this one user when so many of us disagreeded with the concept, but while you make some valid points Marvel has NEVER rebooted it is one of the biggest diffrences between them and DC. I think DC's new 52 has been pretty good, but ask some of the long time DC fans and many aren't happy. In the end I believe it is safer to keep your readers than risk losing them to the "possibility" of new readers. Besides Marvel doesn't have the writers right now imo to make a reboot any better than what they are writing now. Marvel has alot of ideas in store and alot is changing try Marvel Now and if your lost ask someone here or use the CV wiki. I can summarize the last decade of Marvel in a paragraph if you would like.

@Typhion said:

@White Mage said:

@Typhion said:

@White Mage said:

LOL The NEW PEOPLE can hope for this

Us VETS will simply decline

Ain't nothin hot about that idea

Read the Ultimate universe

NEW PEOPLE are what will keep franchises going. If you can't bring people into the fold, this stuff will eventually go away, which would be sad. If Marvel doesn't find a way to ground itself it will continue to pump out mediocre product and die an ugly death. Can't live on movies alone. Eventually the base that makes those movies will go away.

Get off your high horse. You act like you've done something significant with your life by reading comics.

You're right. A company can't live on movies alone........they can however live on movies, cartoons, video games, toy lines, and online gaming. It's not like it will be THAT hard. In fact, I believe they've been doing this since before I was even born.......and they've managed to do just fine. Have I done something special by reading comics? No. I haven't. But the suggestion is as stupid as expecting Grey's Anatomy to go back to season 1 so that we can see alternate universe versions of characters that we've already become attached to. ERASING an entire UNIVERSE'S HISTORY is dumb as hell, because it isolates the fans that are already around, in hopes of MAYBE attracting "extras".

Me and my horsey are just fine. Me and my horsey also assist with wikia's like THIS ONE in order to help new users/outdated readers to actually catch up........Why should WE have to adjust just because other people are late?

This ish is for the birds.....and they don't even want it

Erasing an entire universes history is just fine when it's recent history is a dumpster fire of inconsistency in scale and personality of it's characters without a clear reboot. That's what Marvel has become. I'd agree that Marvel could live in toons and games as well...if they didn't stink at that. The only Marvel game worth the time to look at was X-men legends 1. Cartoons? Well they dropped AEMH of course. They can't keep the X-men on for more than 2 seasons in any incarnation. They flop on spider man animated series about every 3 years. What is Marvel doing that's pushing them to the next generation? Toy's don't mean jack unless there's a story to go behind it, and it doesn't turn back around the other way very well (GI JOE, Battleship, and if you think transformers was good, then you're sharp as a bowling ball.)

They're just capitalizing on the boomers and the children of the 80's.

Why are you attached to a fictitious history, when the universe is so badly mangled? What of value is there to recall now? Additionally, the history is there for those who wish to recall it as it was. Those stories don't go away to those who've read them. You're comparing Marvel to Grey's Anatomy. Lol, try Days of Our Lives. That's the kinda show that allows characters to evolve, devolve, be terribly written and still survive in 12 different incarnations while saying it's all one continuity.

I'm not buyin it. Keeping a broken universe for the sake of a few rabid fanboys' sentiment is dumb as hell. It compromises the value of the product, and alienates people who like good writing, strong back story and larger arcs that don't need escalation of scale to stay interesting. In short, Marvel is losing its smart and eclectic audience. If they can actually hire good writers, who can just ignore the pitiful recent history of the franchise, and get back to basics, then fine, but if they can't, then it's time to reboot.

So Marvel should copy DC because YOU don't believe they can fix their storylines? Like I said, The Ultimate universe is welcoming people with open arms if they want a change of scenery. Create ANOTHER universe for characters to start fresh. It isn't that Marvel's storylines flat-out suck. It's that they aren't taking advantage of story material/and characters that have pretty much been handed to them as a result of the many big events that they've had within the last few years. I don't want to sit through Cyclops and Jean AGAIN, I don't want to watch Scarlet Witch start off in the Brotherhood AGAIN, I don't want to go through Madelyne Pryor's creation AGAIN, I don't want to see the X-Men as teenagers AGAIN, I don't want to watch T'Challa become the Black Panther AGAIN, I don't want to have to relearn all of the Marvel God's stories AGAIN, and I don't want Wiccan to stop existing, just so some new person can see a 15 year old Peter Parker use a dizamn IPHONE.

If they move forward, with already established characters, I'm fine. But to erase the main storyline every 15 years so that new people can "Adjust" is just ridiculous...and yet, it's the only possible way that we can keep from repeating the same ish over and over again. Keep the original, and revamp it. If your mind is creative enough to start from scratch, and create HUNDREDS OF STORYLINES (which will inevitably be repeats in some way or another) for HUNDREDS OF CHARACTERS, then it should be creative enough to go through already established material, and create something new and relatable from there, WITHOUT throwing so many years of of hard work and dedication out the window.

I don't think that Marvel should get a reboot because the way I see it, Marvel just has problems with their continuity, meaning that every time they have a new event, they claim that everything's going to change, but the change from the event only lasts a few months before they go on to the next event and pretend the earlier event never existed.
 
I think what Marvel really needs to do is try to decide on what events they want to stay in continuity and what events they don't want to stay in continuity.  It seems like Marvel is all over the place when it comes to what stories should remain in continuity and sometimes they forget tiny details in the characters' past that might help the new stories move along a bit smoother.  For example, the whole Phoenix 5 thing in the Avengers vs. X-Men story about how Cyclops, Emma, Colossus, Namor and Magik have all gotten the Phoenix Force and it wasn't clearly explain about whether or not this would contradict with the whole idea that only telepaths can control the Phoenix Force. Emma makes sense since she's a telepath and maybe Cyclops, but the other three didn't make any sense at all.

I hope they never do. If people are new to comics and wanna get into them just pick them up from whatever issue is most recent and go from there. you can go back later. that's what i did. People are just lazy.