Which should be the Justice League founder: Martian Manhunter or Cyborg?

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#1 Posted by BlueLantern1995 (3237 posts) - - Show Bio


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#2 Posted by YoggSaron (812 posts) - - Show Bio

Because of the ongoing unnecessary conflict between the two fanbases I'm going to say: Neither. Kill them both.

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#3 Posted by MrShway88 (721 posts) - - Show Bio

This is really close.

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#4 Posted by fodigg (6240 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyborg brings more to the team than Martian Manhunter. Also, MM has overlapping themes with Superman, and they're sure not going to cut Superman.

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#5 Edited by OutlawRenegade (1394 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

Cyborg brings more to the team than Martian Manhunter. Also, MM has overlapping themes with Superman, and they're sure not going to cut Superman.

Exactly. Well said. Also, I'm really growing more interested in the Red Room and its connection to the Black Room and Steve Trevor. I think that Cyborg's supporting cast could be really interesting.

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#6 Edited by Twentyfive (3057 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with fodigg and OutlawRenegade.

But I am getting annoyed that this fight rages on.

I also feel that this thread was created just to generate hatred for either character, and start a flame war, and I'm not going to take place in it. People on the internet, I swear.

This just in: MMH is now in the JLA book coming out next year. Butthurt old gasbag comic readers can now shut up about his exclusion from the team of A-listers. If you can't do that, then you are truly pathetic.

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#7 Posted by JohnnyGat (1592 posts) - - Show Bio

MM for nostalgia purposes and Cyborg for diversity (and by diversity I don't mean Cyborgs race). So all in all I choose C.

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#8 Posted by Superdork (1035 posts) - - Show Bio

@Twentyfive said:

I agree with fodigg and OutlawRenegade.

But I am getting annoyed that this fight rages on.

Same

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#9 Posted by JohnnyWalker (825 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg: he brings jack to the team. you mean the little boom tube thingy he used only once and was a plot device? mm yeah they can get one easy. tech guy? they got batman and MM could fill that plus telepathy.

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#10 Posted by 4_color_image (250 posts) - - Show Bio

Manhunter please

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#11 Posted by fodigg (6240 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyWalker said:

@fodigg: he brings jack to the team. you mean the little boom tube thingy he used only once and was a plot device? mm yeah they can get one easy. tech guy? they got batman and MM could fill that plus telepathy.

Thematically, he's a far more modern and distinct archetype.

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#12 Edited by Captain13 (4695 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyWalker said:

@fodigg: he brings jack to the team. you mean the little boom tube thingy he used only once and was a plot device? mm yeah they can get one easy. tech guy? they got batman and MM could fill that plus telepathy.

I love that argument. You do know that Cyborg is FAR better at tech than Batman. But if just having a power is a requirement and not your skill with it then you run into several issues, friend.

According to Your Formal Logic:

1. If Superman has Super Speed, then Flash is obsolete

2. If Wonder Woman has wealth and a tactical mind, then Batman is obsolete

3. If Aquaman has telepathy, then Martian Manhunter is obsolete

4. If Green Lantern can communicate with all life using his ring and if he can survive in any environment, then Aquaman is obsolete.

5. If Superman has Super Strength and Flight, then Wonder Woman is obsolete

6. If Wonder Woman has Super Strength and Flight, then Superman is obsolete

7. If Superman can fly in space, then Green lantern is obsolete.

Your logic is flawed because by using it we can deduce that every member of the Justice League is obsolete.

You're just a hater--nothing wrong with that. Just own up to it and stop trying to pretend that you have logic on your side.

Did you see Avengers? Having Black Widow on the team didn't mean that Captain America should be off the team.

Cyborg has access to everything on every computer on the planet--even alien computers. That makes him nearly omnipotent--take that! Cyborg can teleport--take that! He can assimilate any technolgy he wants including Amazo's ability to mimic powers, the Atom's ability to shrink, etc. He's the god of the machine. He could probably open a boom tube in your chest and kill you from the inside out if he wanted to.

He's extemely useful. Stop trying to misinform the masses, JohnnyWalker. You're not good at it.

I'm so tired of the haters. He's only been on the Justice League for 11 issues. And he hasn't crossed over with any DC titles or been given his own title. He hardly even gets any spotlight in the title that he's in. Give the character some time to grow. Please!

Batman and Superman got decade of development (in the golden, silver, bronze, etc. ages) before they became the characters that they are now. Let's at least give Cyborg a couple more years of stories.

Cyborg is not the first character to be written into a team's history (Wolverine, Vulcan, Ultimate Storm, Shazam, Wiccan, Speed, etc.) and he's not the first character to have his entire continuity changed (Superman, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Flash, etc.). And he's not the first character to be added for diversity (Black Nick Fury, John Stewart, Aqualad). Let's just move on and enjoy the stories for now. It doesn't need to be the same thing all the time.

Please, fans on both sides--let's stop the fighting. I'm begging you. Please stop.

Sorry about the bolds and size changes, but I want to emphasize my points.

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#13 Posted by JohnnyWalker (825 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain13: you want me to admit i dont like him? i wont do that because i like him. AS A TITAN. NOTHING MORE. HE IS NOT LEAGUER! nice how you ignored the fact that he was just a plot device. ill skip over your childish attempt to dismiss my logic, that should be aimed at DC not me. you say he has access to every computer on the planet (free p*rn for the whole league? whats the purpose of this?)? my answer: so? so does batman in a little tiny eye lense. you say he has teleportation? yeah every 1 thousand jumps and they port to apokolips. they could just as easily modified a mother box or something. and really do they need it? are they planning that many hikes across galaxies? NOPE. all of them can fast travel. they dont need him. new cyborg cant mimic amazo because we havent even seen new amazo!! now whos misleading the 'masses'? 'god of machines' ? pfff tell that to brainiac and a thousand better others. so yeah you GOT SERVED! FEEL THE BURN!

as for your other comments: the characters you mentioned were awesome characters others were unique. hes like the thousand cyborg guy. and diversity DOES NOT EQUAL GOOD. and about enjoying the stories.... HE HASNT DONE JACK after the first arc where HE WAS A PLOT DEVICE! this just shows he is not league material, he could just as easily be a guy at home with awesome computer skills helping ocassionally the league like snapper was. instead of the bumbling inexperienced noob he is. at the end of the day he is a token and a poor one at that shoved down our throats for diversity's sake. MM beats the living tar out of your god of machines (what a lame title by the way) in every way.

end note: cyborg SUCKS! mm ROCKS!

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#14 Posted by Superdork (1035 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyWalker: SMH. Take your ball and go home. You're not making ANY logical sense. Clear your head and come back with a logical answer. Right now you're confusing logic with emotions and nonsense.

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#15 Posted by JohnnyWalker (825 posts) - - Show Bio

@Superdork: look bro. i have nothing against you, so STFU. dont try to treat me like a child or call my opinnion hateful. its what they are. opinnions. you dont like them

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#16 Edited by OutlawRenegade (1394 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyWalker said:

@Superdork: look bro. i have nothing against you, so STFU. dont try to treat me like a child or call my opinnion hateful. its what they are. opinnions. you dont like them

No Caption Provided

You need to take it down a few notches, bruh. Watch your language. Your fanboyism is showing.

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#17 Posted by JohnnyWalker (825 posts) - - Show Bio

@OutlawRenegade: no fanboy here. and what i said to superdork, same to you.

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#18 Posted by OutlawRenegade (1394 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyWalker: You trollin' bro?

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#19 Posted by JohnnyWalker (825 posts) - - Show Bio

@OutlawRenegade: oh stop trying to appear mature. you're annoying me.

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#20 Posted by BushidoBlack (117 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

Cyborg brings more to the team than Martian Manhunter. Also, MM has overlapping themes with Superman, and they're sure not going to cut Superman.

This

It's that simple.

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#21 Posted by TheCannon (20266 posts) - - Show Bio

There is no way ANYONE using common sense would vote for Cyborg.

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#22 Posted by BatteredArmor (6234 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

Cyborg brings more to the team than Martian Manhunter. Also, MM has overlapping themes with Superman, and they're sure not going to cut Superman.

this

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#23 Edited by Captain13 (4695 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not at all worried by threads like this.

1)Warner Brothers has had a strong involvement in the Justice League franchise since Diane Nelson took over.

2)Geoff Johns is Chief Creative Officer, he's good at his job, and he loves Cyborg.

3)Warner has been purposefully promoting Cyborg as a member of the Justice League across all platforms (Justice League Doom, Justice League Earth's Final Defense, New52, InJustice, Lego Batman 2, The Upcoming Flashpoint film, Lego: Piece of the Resistance, Smallville, The Robot Chicken DC Special, etc.) so that people will be prepared to see him in a Justice League movie that they are currently looking for a director to helm. They are not about to do an about face and waste all of that investment money. (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118056432) Martian Manhunter has only been on JL, JLU, Smallville, and The Batman.

4)Black Widow and Hawkeye replaced Hank and Janet Pym in the Avengers. A lot of people complained before the movie came out. No one is complaining now.

5)The Avengers movie turned Black Widow and Hawkeye into stars even though they didn't have their own lead in films. I expect the same for Cyborg.

6)A Justice League with no human racial minorities would have big complaints after so many people wrongly think that WB whitewashed Green Lantern. There is no way they would make anyone other than Hal Jordan the Green Lantern in a Justice League movie since WB has heavily invested in his brand (Green Lantern, Green Lantern: The Animated Series).

7) DC has only rebooted their universe twice in 75 years. They're not about to reboot it again anytime soon.

8)Cyborg is a prominent symbol in WB's We Can Be Heroes campaign for Africa

Cyborg's brand has been too strongly invested in to turn back the clock. It's no longer just in DC's hands.

Whine on Martian Manhunter fans. Nothing is going to change anytime soon.

P.S. Your character is still playing a big role in the DCU.

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#24 Posted by AtPhantom (14434 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain13 said:

7) DC has only rebooted their universe twice in 75 years. They're not about to reboot it again anytime soon.

Haha, what?

They did it five times since '86. Justice League's origin was changed at least three times in that period (and several times before). Hell at one point they booted Supeman, Batman and Wonder Woman off the founders list. DC loves its reboots.

Also, let me know when Johns decides to give the new Cyborg a personality.

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#25 Posted by lvenger (29483 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom said:

@Captain13 said:

7) DC has only rebooted their universe twice in 75 years. They're not about to reboot it again anytime soon.

Haha, what?

They did it five times since '86. Justice League's origin was changed at least three times in that period (and several times before). Hell at one point they booted Supeman, Batman and Wonder Woman off the founders list. DC loves its reboots.

Also, let me know when Johns decides to give the new Cyborg a personality.

Just out of interest, what are all those five times? I gather Infinite Crisis is one but if you're not counting COIE or Flashpoint, then I'm slightly confused

@Captain13: Since when did Wonder Woman become wealthy? Is that mentioned in her new series?

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#26 Posted by Captain13 (4695 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger: I confused her with Aquaman when I wrote that post. Aquaman is incredibly wealthy from treasure he has lying around.

Maybe Wonder Woman has a similar deal? I don't know where her disposable income currently comes from.

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#27 Posted by lvenger (29483 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain13: She was living in a nice place in London in her first issue. The Amazons don't look like they quite have the wealth of their pre New 52 counterparts.

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#28 Posted by AtPhantom (14434 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger said:

Just out of interest, what are all those five times? I gather Infinite Crisis is one but if you're not counting COIE or Flashpoint, then I'm slightly confused

I am counting them, and also Zero Hour and Final Crisis. None of them were really major, but they allowed DC to jigger its history and mess with the status quo. One of the aforementioned League reboots happened during Zero Hour, I think.

I'm pretty sure I could come up with other examples as well. 52, for example, also retconned a lot about the multiverse, turning it into what we know now.

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#29 Posted by lvenger (29483 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom: How could I forget Zero Hour? It ended with the universe restarting. Did Final Crisis change much? I didn't pay much attention to its aftermath.

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#30 Edited by CrimsonAvenger (1288 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain13 said:

Martian Manhunter has only been on JL, JLU, Smallville, and The Batman.

Martian Manhunter has also been in Smallville, JL: Doom, Young Justice, Batman: The Brave and The Bold, and The Crisis on Two Earths, and was going to be in George Miller's live-action Justice League film from a few years back. He has also appeared in numerous video games over the past decade like Justice League: Injustice for All, Justice League: Chronicles, Justice League Heroes, Lego Batman 2, and in DCUO. Also where did you hear that Cyborg is going to be in the upcoming Robot Chicken special?

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#31 Posted by lvenger (29483 posts) - - Show Bio

@CrimsonAvenger: The Robot Chicken variant of Aquaman has Cyborg in it.

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#32 Posted by lvenger (29483 posts) - - Show Bio

@CrimsonAvenger: He's in the trailer too. 1:07

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#33 Edited by BushidoBlack (117 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain13 said:

I'm not at all worried by threads like this.

1)Warner Brothers has had a strong involvement in the Justice League franchise since Diane Nelson took over.

2)Geoff Johns is Chief Creative Officer, he's good at his job, and he loves Cyborg.

3)Warner has been purposefully promoting Cyborg as a member of the Justice League across all platforms (Justice League Doom, Justice League Earth's Final Defense, New52, InJustice, Lego Batman 2, The Upcoming Flashpoint film, Lego: Piece of the Resistance, Smallville, The Robot Chicken DC Special, etc.) so that people will be prepared to see him in a Justice League movie that they are currently looking for a director to helm. They are not about to do an about face and waste all of that investment money. (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118056432) Martian Manhunter has only been on JL, JLU, Smallville, and The Batman.

4)Black Widow and Hawkeye replaced Hank and Janet Pym in the Avengers. A lot of people complained before the movie came out. No one is complaining now.

5)The Avengers movie turned Black Widow and Hawkeye into stars even though they didn't have their own lead in films. I expect the same for Cyborg.

6)A Justice League with no human racial minorities would have big complaints after so many people wrongly think that WB whitewashed Green Lantern. There is no way they would make anyone other than Hal Jordan the Green Lantern in a Justice League movie since WB has heavily invested in his brand (Green Lantern, Green Lantern: The Animated Series).

7) DC has only rebooted their universe twice in 75 years. They're not about to reboot it again anytime soon.

8)Cyborg is a prominent symbol in WB's We Can Be Heroes campaign for Africa

Cyborg's brand has been too strongly invested in to turn back the clock. It's no longer just in DC's hands.

Whine on Martian Manhunter fans. Nothing is going to change anytime soon.

P.S. Your character is still playing a big role in the DCU.

Grand closing

Cyborg is going to be more prominent from now on. DC Entertainment is intent on pushing the New 52 Justice League hard now for the eventual movie. Cyborg will be there every step of the way.

It is what it is. If you gotta blame something, blame Marvel and the Avengers. I highly doubt DC would be this serious if The Avengers didn't do as well as it did.

@CrimsonAvenger said:

@Captain13 said:

Martian Manhunter has only been on JL, JLU, Smallville, and The Batman.

Martian Manhunter has also been in Smallville, JL: Doom, Young Justice, Batman: The Brave and The Bold, and The Crisis on Two Earths, and was going to be in George Miller's live-action Justice League film from a few years back. He has also appeared in numerous video games over the past decade like Justice League: Injustice for All, Justice League: Chronicles, Justice League Heroes, Lego Batman 2, and in DCUO. Also where did you hear that Cyborg is going to be in the upcoming Robot Chicken special?

He's on the special Robot Chicken cover for Aquaman #12.

http://www.digitalspy.com/comics/news/a400850/aquaman-12-gets-robot-chicken-variant-cover.html

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#34 Posted by AtPhantom (14434 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger said:

@AtPhantom: How could I forget Zero Hour? It ended with the universe restarting. Did Final Crisis change much? I didn't pay much attention to its aftermath.

FC did mostly minor stuff about the DCU prehistory and the New Gods.

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#35 Posted by the_tree (8608 posts) - - Show Bio

Martian Manhunter.

I like Cyborg as a member of the Justice League, but as a founder, no thank you.

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#36 Posted by Mercy_ (94554 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyWalker: You need to watch the language and how you're speaking to other people.

Moderator
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#37 Posted by JohnnyWalker (825 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mercy_: sorry. got a little to heated.

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#38 Posted by Gambit1024 (10217 posts) - - Show Bio

Martian Manhunter for me, becuase a) I prefer Cyborg as a Titan and b) I'm a huge fan of JLU.

IF however, it was possible, I'd like to see Black Lightning over both.

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#39 Posted by Gambit1024 (10217 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Tree said:

Martian Manhunter.

I like Cyborg as a member of the Justice League, but as a founder, no thank you.

I feel the same way, but as I said, if you need someone that's not MM, I'd prefer Black Lightning.

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#40 Edited by Fuchsia_Nightingale (10191 posts) - - Show Bio

Cy

@Twentyfive said:

But I am getting annoyed that this fight rages on.

I also feel that this thread was created just to generate hatred for either character, and start a flame war, and I'm not going to take place in it. People on the internet, I swear.

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#41 Posted by TheMinister (1138 posts) - - Show Bio

Martian Manhunter 100%. Definitely stands out in the group.

I like Cyborg as a Titan.

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#42 Posted by The Stegman (35888 posts) - - Show Bio

My God, people just won't let this go.

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#43 Posted by the_tree (8608 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambit1024 said:

@The_Tree said:

Martian Manhunter.

I like Cyborg as a member of the Justice League, but as a founder, no thank you.

I feel the same way, but as I said, if you need someone that's not MM, I'd prefer Black Lightning.

I agree with your choice. My biggest beef about Cyborg being a founder is that with becoming one, his great history with the Titans is cancelled out.

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#44 Posted by Gambit1024 (10217 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Tree said:

@Gambit1024 said:

@The_Tree said:

Martian Manhunter.

I like Cyborg as a member of the Justice League, but as a founder, no thank you.

I feel the same way, but as I said, if you need someone that's not MM, I'd prefer Black Lightning.

I agree with your choice. My biggest beef about Cyborg being a founder is that with becoming one, his great history with the Titans is cancelled out.

Exactly. Thinking about The Judas Contract without Cyborg is like thinking of The Avengers without Iron Man. He just belongs on that team, or in this case, should have belonged to that team at some point. Yeah, I'm aware that this is a reboot, but.. I don't know. I guess we can't all have our way.

Has Black Lightning even appeared in the New 52 yet? He was so awesome. His powerset would work wonders for the Justice League.

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#45 Posted by Dernman (22135 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gambit1024 said:

@The_Tree said:

Martian Manhunter.

I like Cyborg as a member of the Justice League, but as a founder, no thank you.

I feel the same way, but as I said, if you need someone that's not MM, I'd prefer Black Lightning.

Ya I agree. MM should have been a founder and if they did do something dumb as not make him the founder it should have been Black Lightning.. No problem with Cyborg being a member down the road but NOT a founder.
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#46 Posted by Dernman (22135 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gambit1024: Black Lightning will be appearing in DC Presents: Black and Blue. It will be with Blue Devil.
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#47 Posted by Gambit1024 (10217 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman said:

@Gambit1024: Black Lightning will be appearing in DC Presents: Black and Blue. It will be with Blue Devil.

Well I guess I know what I'll be picking up then :P

Johns said that they're looking to change up the roster anyways, so maybe Black Lightning and Martian Manhunter will join up then. If Captain Marvel's joining the team, however, I think BL's chances are slimmer... I mean, their powers are kind of similar... Well not really... I don't know... Just put him on the team, DC.

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#48 Posted by Dernman (22135 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gambit1024: Bad news for you I guess. :/  
Captain Marvel/Shazam is said to be joining the JLA along with Martian Manhunter sometime in the second year.
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#49 Posted by Gambit1024 (10217 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman: Eh. It's alright. I'm not even reading Justice League at the moment, so I doubt I'll be reading it anytime soon... Well that's a lie. That depends on whether or not the man who'll be replacing Morrison on Action Comics is good or not. ...And on what other members will be joining the JL besides MM and Captain Marvel. If Ray Palmer, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Steel, Plastic Man, Big Barda, Booster Gold, Wally West and/or Kyle Rayner have anything to do with the second wave, JL will be a must buy for me.

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#50 Posted by Dernman (22135 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gambit1024: Rumor has it that  Andy Diggle (I don't know who he is) will be taking over Action Comics. Can't confirm if the rumor is true or not.

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