Follow

    Justice League of America

    Team » Justice League of America appears in 3320 issues.

    The Justice League (also known as the Justice League of America or the JLA) is a team comprised of the premier heroes of the DC Universe.

    Shouldn't the Joker be more interested in Superman?

    Avatar image for captain13
    Captain13

    4814

    Forum Posts

    1020

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 1

    User Lists: 3

    The Joker's MO is that he wants Batman to lose his moral high ground right?

    Well, if he want to take a moral hero down a peg, wouldn't he go for the moral icon: Superman?

    This is not a thread for fanboyism, but logic. Please limit your responses to logical reasons for why the Joker is disinterested in Superman.

    Avatar image for avenging_x_bolt
    Avenging-X-Bolt

    18534

    Forum Posts

    15750

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 1

    User Lists: 140

    @captain13: well the way I see it is

    1.Superman has been broken in ways Batman hasn't already

    2.he doesn't have that near manic obsession the Bruce does.

    3.Batman offers more of an intellectual challenge.

    4.Batman simply offers more strict parallels than Supes does. He's the strict, dark,ordered militaristic type to Joker's flamboyant,anarchistic,artist.

    5.Batman is responsible for the Joker's condition so that might factor in somewhere.

    Avatar image for awesam
    AweSam

    7530

    Forum Posts

    2261

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    Bruce isn't just against killing, he hates the very idea of it. He watched his parents die with his own eyes at a young age. Batman is unbreakable. He's a puzzle. Joker wanted to break that puzzle to pieces the second he laid eyes on him. He's obsessed with Batman. In my opinion, Batman holds the highest set of morals. Superman's morals come from his father, but Batman's comes from a personal experience. I don't see how Joker could get that satisfaction out of driving Supes to the edge.

    Avatar image for jonsmith
    JonSmith

    4529

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    Because Superman doesn't operate on logic. He's not human. He's not a part of the gritty, dark world Gotham exists in. He's up in the clouds, flying by the sun, shooting fire from his eyes and lifting mountains on his shoulders. And all without a speck of dirt in his nails, no ash in his lungs or blood in his teeth. He operates in the sun and daylight, where the citizens of the world look up to him and feel safe.

    Batman operates in the shadows, holding back all the dark things that might hurt those citizens. He doesn't look for recognition or acceptance. He doesn't want to inspire hope, he wants to inspire fear. And THAT'S what draws the Joker to him instead of Superman: Batman lives in his world.

    Batman lives in the dark, where people hurt others just because they can. Not because they're aliens who are stronger, or robots who see it as their duty, not because they have some personal vendetta and people just got in their way. They do it because they can. Because the voice in their head or a coin told them to. No excuses of them being different from the average man. They're just monsters in the dark. And Batman fights them, see's what they do, locks them away, but never compromises his morals doing it.

    That's what fascinates the Joker: How could a man who lives in the shadows like them, how could a man who can predict their movements such that he MUST understand them, how could a man like any other, just like them, still have such moral high ground? It goes against everything the Joker believes about the world, about the nature of man. And that fascinates him.

    Superman is an alien. He doesn't think like we do, act like we do. To the Joker, his whole moral ground is unimportant because of that. To him, it's like being surprised when a rock acts like a rock: Superman acts like Superman. But Batman is JUST a man like any of them. So why won't he fall like them?

    Avatar image for captain13
    Captain13

    4814

    Forum Posts

    1020

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 1

    User Lists: 3

    GREAT answers, everyone.

    Avatar image for patrickborkland
    patrickborkland

    325

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #6  Edited By patrickborkland

    @jonsmith: that's the most fascinating and impressive response I have ever seen, and I couldn't have said it better myself

    Avatar image for crazyscarecrow
    CrazyScarecrow

    2312

    Forum Posts

    50197

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 19

    User Lists: 27

    Batman is identity is a bat. Bats are associated with darkness, shadows, the night. The Joker's identity is a clown. Clowns are associated with fun, laughter,bright colors and such.

    Batman has logic that Superman doesn't really have as well as Bats. The Joker has no logic. (Lex is logical, Superman not as logical as Lex. Perfect adversary pair)

    Batman is part of the reason why the Joker became the Joker.

    Avatar image for lyrafay
    LyraFay

    2643

    Forum Posts

    43

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 5

    User Lists: 12

    @jonsmith said:

    Because Superman doesn't operate on logic. He's not human. He's not a part of the gritty, dark world Gotham exists in. He's up in the clouds, flying by the sun, shooting fire from his eyes and lifting mountains on his shoulders. And all without a speck of dirt in his nails, no ash in his lungs or blood in his teeth. He operates in the sun and daylight, where the citizens of the world look up to him and feel safe.

    Batman operates in the shadows, holding back all the dark things that might hurt those citizens. He doesn't look for recognition or acceptance. He doesn't want to inspire hope, he wants to inspire fear. And THAT'S what draws the Joker to him instead of Superman: Batman lives in his world.

    Batman lives in the dark, where people hurt others just because they can. Not because they're aliens who are stronger, or robots who see it as their duty, not because they have some personal vendetta and people just got in their way. They do it because they can. Because the voice in their head or a coin told them to. No excuses of them being different from the average man. They're just monsters in the dark. And Batman fights them, see's what they do, locks them away, but never compromises his morals doing it.

    That's what fascinates the Joker: How could a man who lives in the shadows like them, how could a man who can predict their movements such that he MUST understand them, how could a man like any other, just like them, still have such moral high ground? It goes against everything the Joker believes about the world, about the nature of man. And that fascinates him.

    Superman is an alien. He doesn't think like we do, act like we do. To the Joker, his whole moral ground is unimportant because of that. To him, it's like being surprised when a rock acts like a rock: Superman acts like Superman. But Batman is JUST a man like any of them. So why won't he fall like them?

    This made me smile! Agreed. :)

    Avatar image for lvenger
    Lvenger

    36475

    Forum Posts

    899

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 50

    User Lists: 18

    #10  Edited By Lvenger

    @jonsmith said:

    Because Superman doesn't operate on logic. He's not human. He's not a part of the gritty, dark world Gotham exists in. He's up in the clouds, flying by the sun, shooting fire from his eyes and lifting mountains on his shoulders. And all without a speck of dirt in his nails, no ash in his lungs or blood in his teeth. He operates in the sun and daylight, where the citizens of the world look up to him and feel safe.

    Batman operates in the shadows, holding back all the dark things that might hurt those citizens. He doesn't look for recognition or acceptance. He doesn't want to inspire hope, he wants to inspire fear. And THAT'S what draws the Joker to him instead of Superman: Batman lives in his world.

    Batman lives in the dark, where people hurt others just because they can. Not because they're aliens who are stronger, or robots who see it as their duty, not because they have some personal vendetta and people just got in their way. They do it because they can. Because the voice in their head or a coin told them to. No excuses of them being different from the average man. They're just monsters in the dark. And Batman fights them, see's what they do, locks them away, but never compromises his morals doing it.

    That's what fascinates the Joker: How could a man who lives in the shadows like them, how could a man who can predict their movements such that he MUST understand them, how could a man like any other, just like them, still have such moral high ground? It goes against everything the Joker believes about the world, about the nature of man. And that fascinates him.

    Superman is an alien. He doesn't think like we do, act like we do. To the Joker, his whole moral ground is unimportant because of that. To him, it's like being surprised when a rock acts like a rock: Superman acts like Superman. But Batman is JUST a man like any of them. So why won't he fall like them?

    Couldn't have expressed it any better if I'd wanted to.

    Avatar image for superguy1591
    Superguy1591

    7539

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 2

    User Lists: 0

    #11  Edited By Superguy1591

    Pure stupidity in this thread. All the responses are moronic.

    Joker is after Batman because he LOVES Batman. Kevin Smith(?) already made that clear.

    Nothing the Joker does is logical, he doesn't chase Batman because he finds Batman the most challenging or "because Batman is human". He's the way he is because he's insane.

    He has no logic behind his actions because it is purely love. Love is illogical, Joker loves Batman, Joker only knows how to fuel emotions one way.

    Avatar image for superguy1591
    Superguy1591

    7539

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 2

    User Lists: 0

    #12  Edited By Superguy1591

    @jonsmith: You're wrong, where did you get your characterization of Superman? A Frank Miller comic? Superman IS human, he represents the best of us. Unlike Batman, Superman was raised by two loving human parents on what it truly means to be a human being. Some Batman fans lack the depth needed to understand why Superman is the most human of us all, for them, it comes down to place of birth. Some of you guys would side with an anti-American that was born here over an immigrant who loves America soley because he's not like you. First of all, what do you mean Superman's not logical? Not sure you know what logic means.

    Second of all, assuming that because Superman has superpowers that that makes him unable to experience struggles is fallacious. Superman was created as a symbol to fight for the oppressed and the down trotted, he still fights for the people of Metropolis and still engages in their lives. If you've ever read Grant Morrison's All-Star Superman (http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/comicsalliance.com/files/2012/09/supermanrooftop.jpg) you would know that Superman, even when the world is being invaded by millions of aliens, he'll take time out of his day to help even the most insignificant problems. That's what the ol' saving the cat from a tree thing comes from. Even though he's up in the sky fighting gods, he's thinking about us and our smallest problems and makes time to help us.

    Finally, you give Joker too much credit. He's not logical. Nolan said it best, Joker is a dog chasing after a truck. He doesn't know why he's chasing the truck or what he'll do if he ever caught it. All he knows is that he wants that truck(Batman). Joker has an obsession with Batman that even he himself doesn't understand, but that's because he was born from hatred, rage and confusion (His wife and unborn child killed, betrayed by his henchmen and confused at seeing Batman for the first time which led to his birth). Those are the only emotions he knows how to convey now.

    @crazyscarecrow: Stop trying to paint Batman and Superman as polar opposites. They're not. Superman and Lex are brain vs. brauns, the best of us(Superman) vs. the worst of us(Lex), man vs. god, one guy uses his gifts to better humanity (Selflessness) and the other guy uses it to better himself(selfishness). Batman and Superman operate independently of each other, they're not intertwined.

    In fact, until Miller got hold of them in the 80s, they were a lot more a like. Miller started this trend of painting them as polar opposites.

    Avatar image for jonsmith
    JonSmith

    4529

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    You're wrong, where did you get your characterization of Superman? A Frank Miller comic? Superman IS human, he represents the best of us. Unlike Batman, Superman was raised by two loving human parents on what it truly means to be a human being. Some Batman fans lack the depth needed to understand why Superman is the most human of us all, for them, it comes down to place of birth. Some of you guys would side with an anti-American that was born here over an immigrant who loves America soley because he's not like you. First of all, what do you mean Superman's not logical? Not sure you know what logic means.

    Second of all, assuming that because Superman has superpowers that that makes him unable to experience struggles is fallacious. Superman was created as a symbol to fight for the oppressed and the down trotted, he still fights for the people of Metropolis and still engages in their lives. If you've ever read Grant Morrison's All-Star Superman (http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/comicsalliance.com/files/2012/09/supermanrooftop.jpg) you would know that Superman, even when the world is being invaded by millions of aliens, he'll take time out of his day to help even the most insignificant problems. That's what the ol' saving the cat from a tree thing comes from. Even though he's up in the sky fighting gods, he's thinking about us and our smallest problems and makes time to help us.

    Finally, you give Joker too much credit. He's not logical. Nolan said it best, Joker is a dog chasing after a truck. He doesn't know why he's chasing the truck or what he'll do if he ever caught it. All he knows is that he wants that truck(Batman). Joker has an obsession with Batman that even he himself doesn't understand, but that's because he was born from hatred, rage and confusion (His wife and unborn child killed, betrayed by his henchmen and confused at seeing Batman for the first time which led to his birth). Those are the only emotions he knows how to convey now.

    I was looking at it from Joker's perspective, not ours. He doesn't have our knowledge of Superman, he doesn't know where Superman comes from. He doesn't know how Superman struggles. He knows what he hears on the news in between killing sprees. He's not privy to Superman's thoughts or such. So as far as HE is concerned, sure, Superman's character is like a Frank Miller comic.

    And the great thing about the Joker is that we can ALL be right: The way he constantly reinvents himself on a regular basis means sure: One day, he might be out to prove no man is better than any other, as I see it, such as in the Killing Joke, therefore, he's disinterested in Superman because, in his view, he's NOT a man. Another, he might just be going, "F*** that guy." Another, he might not even KNOW why he's doing it or care, he's just DOING it, like in The Dark Knight.

    Remember, the Joker remembers multiple pasts, even HE doesn't know which one is real. And most of the time, he doesn't even care. He just picks one or makes one up as the situation requires. Same with his personality, motivations, etc. We can all have our respective views of the Joker, we can all have our reasons WHY he's not interested in Superman in favor of Batman, and we can ALL be right. So... maybe tone down the namecalling, yeah?

    Avatar image for theamazingbatman
    theamazingbatman

    2727

    Forum Posts

    67

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    Because Batman is always serious and Joker's dialogue "Why so serious??" works best on batman.

    Avatar image for holyserpent
    HolySerpent

    13762

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 7

    @lvenger said:

    @jonsmith said:

    Because Superman doesn't operate on logic. He's not human. He's not a part of the gritty, dark world Gotham exists in. He's up in the clouds, flying by the sun, shooting fire from his eyes and lifting mountains on his shoulders. And all without a speck of dirt in his nails, no ash in his lungs or blood in his teeth. He operates in the sun and daylight, where the citizens of the world look up to him and feel safe.

    Batman operates in the shadows, holding back all the dark things that might hurt those citizens. He doesn't look for recognition or acceptance. He doesn't want to inspire hope, he wants to inspire fear. And THAT'S what draws the Joker to him instead of Superman: Batman lives in his world.

    Batman lives in the dark, where people hurt others just because they can. Not because they're aliens who are stronger, or robots who see it as their duty, not because they have some personal vendetta and people just got in their way. They do it because they can. Because the voice in their head or a coin told them to. No excuses of them being different from the average man. They're just monsters in the dark. And Batman fights them, see's what they do, locks them away, but never compromises his morals doing it.

    That's what fascinates the Joker: How could a man who lives in the shadows like them, how could a man who can predict their movements such that he MUST understand them, how could a man like any other, just like them, still have such moral high ground? It goes against everything the Joker believes about the world, about the nature of man. And that fascinates him.

    Superman is an alien. He doesn't think like we do, act like we do. To the Joker, his whole moral ground is unimportant because of that. To him, it's like being surprised when a rock acts like a rock: Superman acts like Superman. But Batman is JUST a man like any of them. So why won't he fall like them?

    Couldn't have expressed it any better if I'd wanted to.

    wrong... just wrong.

    @jonsmith: You're wrong, where did you get your characterization of Superman? A Frank Miller comic? Superman IS human, he represents the best of us. Unlike Batman, Superman was raised by two loving human parents on what it truly means to be a human being. Some Batman fans lack the depth needed to understand why Superman is the most human of us all, for them, it comes down to place of birth. Some of you guys would side with an anti-American that was born here over an immigrant who loves America soley because he's not like you. First of all, what do you mean Superman's not logical? Not sure you know what logic means.

    Second of all, assuming that because Superman has superpowers that that makes him unable to experience struggles is fallacious. Superman was created as a symbol to fight for the oppressed and the down trotted, he still fights for the people of Metropolis and still engages in their lives. If you've ever read Grant Morrison's All-Star Superman (http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/comicsalliance.com/files/2012/09/supermanrooftop.jpg) you would know that Superman, even when the world is being invaded by millions of aliens, he'll take time out of his day to help even the most insignificant problems. That's what the ol' saving the cat from a tree thing comes from. Even though he's up in the sky fighting gods, he's thinking about us and our smallest problems and makes time to help us.

    Finally, you give Joker too much credit. He's not logical. Nolan said it best, Joker is a dog chasing after a truck. He doesn't know why he's chasing the truck or what he'll do if he ever caught it. All he knows is that he wants that truck(Batman). Joker has an obsession with Batman that even he himself doesn't understand, but that's because he was born from hatred, rage and confusion (His wife and unborn child killed, betrayed by his henchmen and confused at seeing Batman for the first time which led to his birth). Those are the only emotions he knows how to convey now.

    @crazyscarecrow: Stop trying to paint Batman and Superman as polar opposites. They're not. Superman and Lex are brain vs. brauns, the best of us(Superman) vs. the worst of us(Lex), man vs. god, one guy uses his gifts to better humanity (Selflessness) and the other guy uses it to better himself(selfishness). Batman and Superman operate independently of each other, they're not intertwined.

    In fact, until Miller got hold of them in the 80s, they were a lot more a like. Miller started this trend of painting them as polar opposites.

    Now this Correct

    Avatar image for strongarm
    Strongarm

    5881

    Forum Posts

    3

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    @superguy1591:

    In fact, until Miller got hold of them in the 80s, they were a lot more a like. Miller started this trend of painting them as polar opposites.

    a reason why I hate that sunnuvabitch in terms of the big two of DC

    Avatar image for lvenger
    Lvenger

    36475

    Forum Posts

    899

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 50

    User Lists: 18

    @holyserpent: Then see this reply to put it in its full context and to see why you're mistaken

    @jonsmith said:
    @superguy1591 said:

    You're wrong, where did you get your characterization of Superman? A Frank Miller comic? Superman IS human, he represents the best of us. Unlike Batman, Superman was raised by two loving human parents on what it truly means to be a human being. Some Batman fans lack the depth needed to understand why Superman is the most human of us all, for them, it comes down to place of birth. Some of you guys would side with an anti-American that was born here over an immigrant who loves America soley because he's not like you. First of all, what do you mean Superman's not logical? Not sure you know what logic means.

    Second of all, assuming that because Superman has superpowers that that makes him unable to experience struggles is fallacious. Superman was created as a symbol to fight for the oppressed and the down trotted, he still fights for the people of Metropolis and still engages in their lives. If you've ever read Grant Morrison's All-Star Superman (http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/comicsalliance.com/files/2012/09/supermanrooftop.jpg) you would know that Superman, even when the world is being invaded by millions of aliens, he'll take time out of his day to help even the most insignificant problems. That's what the ol' saving the cat from a tree thing comes from. Even though he's up in the sky fighting gods, he's thinking about us and our smallest problems and makes time to help us.

    Finally, you give Joker too much credit. He's not logical. Nolan said it best, Joker is a dog chasing after a truck. He doesn't know why he's chasing the truck or what he'll do if he ever caught it. All he knows is that he wants that truck(Batman). Joker has an obsession with Batman that even he himself doesn't understand, but that's because he was born from hatred, rage and confusion (His wife and unborn child killed, betrayed by his henchmen and confused at seeing Batman for the first time which led to his birth). Those are the only emotions he knows how to convey now.

    I was looking at it from Joker's perspective, not ours. He doesn't have our knowledge of Superman, he doesn't know where Superman comes from. He doesn't know how Superman struggles. He knows what he hears on the news in between killing sprees. He's not privy to Superman's thoughts or such. So as far as HE is concerned, sure, Superman's character is like a Frank Miller comic.

    And the great thing about the Joker is that we can ALL be right: The way he constantly reinvents himself on a regular basis means sure: One day, he might be out to prove no man is better than any other, as I see it, such as in the Killing Joke, therefore, he's disinterested in Superman because, in his view, he's NOT a man. Another, he might just be going, "F*** that guy." Another, he might not even KNOW why he's doing it or care, he's just DOING it, like in The Dark Knight.

    Remember, the Joker remembers multiple pasts, even HE doesn't know which one is real. And most of the time, he doesn't even care. He just picks one or makes one up as the situation requires. Same with his personality, motivations, etc. We can all have our respective views of the Joker, we can all have our reasons WHY he's not interested in Superman in favor of Batman, and we can ALL be right. So... maybe tone down the namecalling, yeah?

    He's referring to it from Joker's perspective. Joker doesn't know what we know about Superman and instead thinks of him how a lot of the public thinks of him, as a god hovering above humanity looking down on us. He doesn't know that Superman was raised in the midst of two loving humans nor does he know that Superman's humanity and morals come from a strong moral upbringing. That's why Joker doesn't really bother with Superman, because Batman represents the moral high ground in a city where crime has overtaken it.

    Avatar image for holyserpent
    HolySerpent

    13762

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 7

    @awesam said:

    Bruce isn't just against killing, he hates the very idea of it. He watched his parents die with his own eyes at a young age. Batman is unbreakable. He's a puzzle. Joker wanted to break that puzzle to pieces the second he laid eyes on him. He's obsessed with Batman. In my opinion, Batman holds the highest set of morals. Superman's morals come from his father, but Batman's comes from a personal experience. I don't see how Joker could get that satisfaction out of driving Supes to the edge.

    How can you sit there and say that. It doesnt matter where the beliefs comes from, at the end of the day, its there belief. The Belief to never take a life (exception of darksied of course) is what defines them, and its what makes them the Worlds Finest.

    Avatar image for transformers1024
    Transformers1024

    7603

    Forum Posts

    1596

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 5

    @avenging_x_bolt: That is a great answer. I agree with you 100%. Couldn't have said it better myself!

    Avatar image for holyserpent
    HolySerpent

    13762

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 7

    @lvenger said:

    @holyserpent: Then see this reply to put it in its full context and to see why you're mistaken

    @jonsmith said:
    @superguy1591 said:

    You're wrong, where did you get your characterization of Superman? A Frank Miller comic? Superman IS human, he represents the best of us. Unlike Batman, Superman was raised by two loving human parents on what it truly means to be a human being. Some Batman fans lack the depth needed to understand why Superman is the most human of us all, for them, it comes down to place of birth. Some of you guys would side with an anti-American that was born here over an immigrant who loves America soley because he's not like you. First of all, what do you mean Superman's not logical? Not sure you know what logic means.

    Second of all, assuming that because Superman has superpowers that that makes him unable to experience struggles is fallacious. Superman was created as a symbol to fight for the oppressed and the down trotted, he still fights for the people of Metropolis and still engages in their lives. If you've ever read Grant Morrison's All-Star Superman (http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/comicsalliance.com/files/2012/09/supermanrooftop.jpg) you would know that Superman, even when the world is being invaded by millions of aliens, he'll take time out of his day to help even the most insignificant problems. That's what the ol' saving the cat from a tree thing comes from. Even though he's up in the sky fighting gods, he's thinking about us and our smallest problems and makes time to help us.

    Finally, you give Joker too much credit. He's not logical. Nolan said it best, Joker is a dog chasing after a truck. He doesn't know why he's chasing the truck or what he'll do if he ever caught it. All he knows is that he wants that truck(Batman). Joker has an obsession with Batman that even he himself doesn't understand, but that's because he was born from hatred, rage and confusion (His wife and unborn child killed, betrayed by his henchmen and confused at seeing Batman for the first time which led to his birth). Those are the only emotions he knows how to convey now.

    I was looking at it from Joker's perspective, not ours. He doesn't have our knowledge of Superman, he doesn't know where Superman comes from. He doesn't know how Superman struggles. He knows what he hears on the news in between killing sprees. He's not privy to Superman's thoughts or such. So as far as HE is concerned, sure, Superman's character is like a Frank Miller comic.

    And the great thing about the Joker is that we can ALL be right: The way he constantly reinvents himself on a regular basis means sure: One day, he might be out to prove no man is better than any other, as I see it, such as in the Killing Joke, therefore, he's disinterested in Superman because, in his view, he's NOT a man. Another, he might just be going, "F*** that guy." Another, he might not even KNOW why he's doing it or care, he's just DOING it, like in The Dark Knight.

    Remember, the Joker remembers multiple pasts, even HE doesn't know which one is real. And most of the time, he doesn't even care. He just picks one or makes one up as the situation requires. Same with his personality, motivations, etc. We can all have our respective views of the Joker, we can all have our reasons WHY he's not interested in Superman in favor of Batman, and we can ALL be right. So... maybe tone down the namecalling, yeah?

    He's referring to it from Joker's perspective. Joker doesn't know what we know about Superman and instead thinks of him how a lot of the public thinks of him, as a god hovering above humanity looking down on us. He doesn't know that Superman was raised in the midst of two loving humans nor does he know that Superman's humanity and morals come from a strong moral upbringing. That's why Joker doesn't really bother with Superman, because Batman represents the moral high ground in a city where crime has overtaken it.

    I simply disagree. i believe Joker fascination with the batman and not supeman is simply because Batmans the polar oppsite of him.

    Avatar image for lvenger
    Lvenger

    36475

    Forum Posts

    899

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 50

    User Lists: 18

    @holyserpent: Then it seems I haven't made myself clear. I agree that Joker is obsessed with Batman because they're polar opposites but I also think that in relation to Superman, Joker doesn't see himself at all in contrast to Superman.

    Avatar image for cloakx14
    Cloakx14

    9136

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 3

    @jonsmith said:

    Because Superman doesn't operate on logic. He's not human. He's not a part of the gritty, dark world Gotham exists in. He's up in the clouds, flying by the sun, shooting fire from his eyes and lifting mountains on his shoulders. And all without a speck of dirt in his nails, no ash in his lungs or blood in his teeth. He operates in the sun and daylight, where the citizens of the world look up to him and feel safe.

    Batman operates in the shadows, holding back all the dark things that might hurt those citizens. He doesn't look for recognition or acceptance. He doesn't want to inspire hope, he wants to inspire fear. And THAT'S what draws the Joker to him instead of Superman: Batman lives in his world.

    Batman lives in the dark, where people hurt others just because they can. Not because they're aliens who are stronger, or robots who see it as their duty, not because they have some personal vendetta and people just got in their way. They do it because they can. Because the voice in their head or a coin told them to. No excuses of them being different from the average man. They're just monsters in the dark. And Batman fights them, see's what they do, locks them away, but never compromises his morals doing it.

    That's what fascinates the Joker: How could a man who lives in the shadows like them, how could a man who can predict their movements such that he MUST understand them, how could a man like any other, just like them, still have such moral high ground? It goes against everything the Joker believes about the world, about the nature of man. And that fascinates him.

    Superman is an alien. He doesn't think like we do, act like we do. To the Joker, his whole moral ground is unimportant because of that. To him, it's like being surprised when a rock acts like a rock: Superman acts like Superman. But Batman is JUST a man like any of them. So why won't he fall like them?

    This right here.

    Avatar image for crazyscarecrow
    CrazyScarecrow

    2312

    Forum Posts

    50197

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 19

    User Lists: 27

    @superguy1591: Yeah after reading what you read. I agree with you. The Superman logic idea is bit stupid. I really liked what you had to say about Superman.

    Avatar image for sandman_
    SandMan_

    4581

    Forum Posts

    65

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    He is not interested in Superman.

    Avatar image for anjales_ii
    Anjales_II

    1026

    Forum Posts

    64748

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 6

    User Lists: 1

    #26  Edited By Anjales_II

    Because for Joker, Superman is easy mode, the real challenge is Batman. He said it himself. As far as Joker is concerned, Batman is just as crazy as him, but he just won't admit it, and he's made it his life's mission to prove to Batman that they're just the same. They both had a bad day once, and it turned them into who they are, the difference is, Joker is honest about it, while (in Joker's view) Batman is in denial. As for Superman, Joker sees him as just another sane man who will break once he has a "bad day", because for him, all it takes is one bad day to turn the sanest man alive completely crazy. It's not a theory or just a point of view, for him, he considers it to be the harsh reality of life. Breaking Superman really isn't all that groundbreaking for him, because, the sane Superman is just as breakable as any sane man. It is expected. Predictable. There's no fun in that. And he proved it in Injustice. What facinates him about Batman is that he simply refuses to accept the harsh reality of life despite seeing it first hand, and he plans on making him experience it over and over again till he comes to terms with it.

    Avatar image for joygirl
    Joygirl

    21037

    Forum Posts

    482

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 43

    As he explains it in Injustice, Superman is easy mode. A breath of fresh air to kick back and relax with.

    Avatar image for jaken7
    JakeN7

    15180

    Forum Posts

    608

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 3

    #28  Edited By JakeN7

    @jonsmith said:

    Because Superman doesn't operate on logic. He's not human. He's not a part of the gritty, dark world Gotham exists in. He's up in the clouds, flying by the sun, shooting fire from his eyes and lifting mountains on his shoulders. And all without a speck of dirt in his nails, no ash in his lungs or blood in his teeth. He operates in the sun and daylight, where the citizens of the world look up to him and feel safe.

    Batman operates in the shadows, holding back all the dark things that might hurt those citizens. He doesn't look for recognition or acceptance. He doesn't want to inspire hope, he wants to inspire fear. And THAT'S what draws the Joker to him instead of Superman: Batman lives in his world.

    Batman lives in the dark, where people hurt others just because they can. Not because they're aliens who are stronger, or robots who see it as their duty, not because they have some personal vendetta and people just got in their way. They do it because they can. Because the voice in their head or a coin told them to. No excuses of them being different from the average man. They're just monsters in the dark. And Batman fights them, see's what they do, locks them away, but never compromises his morals doing it.

    That's what fascinates the Joker: How could a man who lives in the shadows like them, how could a man who can predict their movements such that he MUST understand them, how could a man like any other, just like them, still have such moral high ground? It goes against everything the Joker believes about the world, about the nature of man. And that fascinates him.

    Superman is an alien. He doesn't think like we do, act like we do. To the Joker, his whole moral ground is unimportant because of that. To him, it's like being surprised when a rock acts like a rock: Superman acts like Superman. But Batman is JUST a man like any of them. So why won't he fall like them?

    That...that's fucking brilliant. You've just captured who those characters are way better than most writers who are paid to do so. All while waxing poetic. You sir, are a damn wordsmith. That....god. DAMNIT. This, this, and more this! You were able to come up with that, and I can't even come up with the right words to explain how amazingly...just...CORRECT that is.

    /Thread for sure

    Avatar image for clarkkent12
    ClarkKent12

    138

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #29  Edited By ClarkKent12

    Have you read/played Injustice?... I'd like to think it would play out that way.

    Avatar image for teerack
    Teerack

    10703

    Forum Posts

    1614

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 64

    #30  Edited By Teerack

    Superman isn't a man.

    Avatar image for blackshade
    BlackShade

    2

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    Well, I will try to give you a response as short as possible:

    The main reason is because of the fact that The Joker is connected to him and he knows that Batman is the reason he is the way he is. And, the main reason, Batman is a lot more vulnerable than Superman. Yes, Superman lost his planet, but Batman had the time to get to know his parents so he is a lot more connected to them. So, in short, Joker know what makes Batman tick and what triggers certain emotions from him.

    Avatar image for sophisticated_ignorance
    Sophisticated_Ignorance

    2715

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    Another thing I'd like to point out, unlike lex luthor, Joker simply doesn't have the resources or intelligence to be a believable reoccuring adversary to Superman, so theres that.

    Avatar image for blackwind
    BlackWind

    9792

    Forum Posts

    4

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    Joker would never elide Superman like he does Batman.

    Avatar image for infantfinite128
    infantfinite128

    11900

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    @jonsmith said:

    Because Superman doesn't operate on logic. He's not human. He's not a part of the gritty, dark world Gotham exists in. He's up in the clouds, flying by the sun, shooting fire from his eyes and lifting mountains on his shoulders. And all without a speck of dirt in his nails, no ash in his lungs or blood in his teeth. He operates in the sun and daylight, where the citizens of the world look up to him and feel safe.

    Batman operates in the shadows, holding back all the dark things that might hurt those citizens. He doesn't look for recognition or acceptance. He doesn't want to inspire hope, he wants to inspire fear. And THAT'S what draws the Joker to him instead of Superman: Batman lives in his world.

    Batman lives in the dark, where people hurt others just because they can. Not because they're aliens who are stronger, or robots who see it as their duty, not because they have some personal vendetta and people just got in their way. They do it because they can. Because the voice in their head or a coin told them to. No excuses of them being different from the average man. They're just monsters in the dark. And Batman fights them, see's what they do, locks them away, but never compromises his morals doing it.

    That's what fascinates the Joker: How could a man who lives in the shadows like them, how could a man who can predict their movements such that he MUST understand them, how could a man like any other, just like them, still have such moral high ground? It goes against everything the Joker believes about the world, about the nature of man. And that fascinates him.

    Superman is an alien. He doesn't think like we do, act like we do. To the Joker, his whole moral ground is unimportant because of that. To him, it's like being surprised when a rock acts like a rock: Superman acts like Superman. But Batman is JUST a man like any of them. So why won't he fall like them?

    Woah! Fantastic post, sir!

    Avatar image for thebhramabull
    TheBhramaBull

    457

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    #35  Edited By TheBhramaBull

    Because he knows Batman is interesting and Superman is a boring loser who isn't worth his time. He's basically like most people in the real world.

    Avatar image for killerinstinct4588
    killerinstinct4588

    152

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    @thebhramabull said:

    Because he knows Batman is interesting and Superman is a boring loser who isn't worth his time. He's basically like most people in the real world.

    Probably because the joker know's how to pick his fights. I'm sure he realize he has zero chance of winning a fight with Superman!

    Avatar image for w0nd
    w0nd

    6806

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    I love how the thread was nice and positive and open minded and welcome to all responses, and then all it takes is ONE person who is pretentious calling people moronic because of how they view a character, a made up with with many incarnations. Not only that it is a view of a character through another characters eyes...Good lord the internet brings out the best in people.

    Avatar image for deactivated-5edd330f57b65
    deactivated-5edd330f57b65

    26437

    Forum Posts

    815

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    No. Superman has killed before. Joker is hard for batman to catch, but superman would catch him easily. Superman isn't as fun as batman for joker. He doesn't have the same gadgets or mind or personality. Batman pushes himself to not kill joker and does mean things superman would not.

    Avatar image for 4u2nv
    4U2NV

    165

    Forum Posts

    0

    Wiki Points

    0

    Followers

    Reviews: 0

    User Lists: 0

    Maybe.

    This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

    Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

    Comment and Save

    Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.