@The Stegman said:

Yeah, for the first time, I disagree with Whedon, DC has just as many "down to earth" characters as Marvel. A JLA movie is possible.

DC may have many "down to Earth" characters, but they're not as popular as Marvel's, and they're not the most popular in DC. And Batman is not down to Earth; he can do things that no normal human can ever achieve or even get close to doing.

@tim2081 said:

DC may have many "down to Earth" characters, but they're not as popular as Marvel's, and they're not the most popular in DC. And Batman is not down to Earth; he can do things that no normal human can ever achieve or even get close to doing.

And yet people still love them. What should that tell you? It should tell you the marvel approach isn't the only valid one.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see if DC decides to make a Justice League movie. I was skeptical about everything Avengers: being made, having been made and, of course, Renner as Hawkeye and Mark Ruffalo as the Hulk. Then the adult melted away and the child in me RAGED.

@KainScion said:

@WildStyle: oh yes because bringing together a rage monster, a russian spy, a man out of ww2, a billionaire in an armored suit and a norse god was so easy to pull off. oh and the guy with the bow too. now that someone finally did a superhero group movie its easy. you wanna know why we dont have jl movie yet? because dc sucks at movies. animated are good, bu live action blow.

Who said the Avengers was easy to pull off? What Marvel Studios did was hard to do period. The Avengers film by itself could have easily been a disaster of epic portions with the wrong director. Easily. Plus, if any of the Avengers movies bombed like GL, that would've damaged the build up to the Avengers. They had everything going right for them and it payed off.

Whoever spearheads a Justice League movie, needs everything to click and work well so we won't end up with a crap fest of a movie. WB can't just hit copy and paste and hope things work out. The movie will have to be different enough so people won't be screaming copy cat if the film comes out. Not to mention, they have to make the characters work on screen. The Justice League has always been epic in scope and a film would have to show that. Especially when you get to each of the characters power set.

It's not going to be an easy thing to do all. Your making it seem like since Marvel did it, it's easy now. Hell no it's not. If they get the right creative minds together, we might have a good movie on out hands. If not........

@tim2081: Didn't Spinal Tap and Mokees make it into the Rock and Roll hall of fame

@Crom-Cruach said:

@Pwok21 said:

Whilst we do that doesn't mean we have to attack a director so viciously. If Nolan said the same about Marvel I guarantee that he wouldn't get the same response. The simple fact is that people can relate to the Marvel heroes better than they can to the DC heroes, who are easier to admire.

Superman who never gives up and always is ready to sacrifice himself to save everyone is easier to admire then Black Widow will ever be.

@Pwok21 said:

Look at the cast of the Avengers. The only character that I would call unrelatable would be Thor and they managed to make that work. Whilst not all characters from DC are unrelatable it is easier to sympathise with someone who built their suit out of scraps with survival in mind; than someone who used Millions of Dollars inherited after their parents died.

Right because it's so much easier to relate to Iron man, sure.

Iron Man as opposed to Batman, yes it is much easier. Survival instinct is something we all have, money isn't.

Also are you trying to say that people can't relate to someone who is forced into a bad situation and can relate to a selfless hero more? Human behaviour isn't so brilliant outside of your ivory tower pal, not everyone is selfless or aspires to selflessness.

@tim2081 said:

@The Stegman said:

Yeah, for the first time, I disagree with Whedon, DC has just as many "down to earth" characters as Marvel. A JLA movie is possible.

DC may have many "down to Earth" characters, but they're not as popular as Marvel's, and they're not the most popular in DC. And Batman is not down to Earth; he can do things that no normal human can ever achieve or even get close to doing.

Neither company has normal human beings. That's why we call them SUPER heroes.

Maybe just me, but I think the main thing wrong with the GL movie was the villain. (btw, also my main problem with The Avengers...Loki had a 0% chance of winning, and I felt the Avengers were never threatened, but then again, the Avengers are over-powered, so I guess that's expected. Be that as it may, for some odd reason, people still think the film is iconic, so i guess it is.) Parralax is not a good screen villain. If nothing else, I couldn't get over how dorky he looked...like a giant smoke worm with a few heads. I fully expect the one with Sinestro to be better. 
 
Now, the DC fan boys (and I am one to a degree) do need to realize, in movies, the court of public opinion is the one that matters. In that court, The Avengers kicked butt, and GL fizzled. Having to pronounce the Avengers movie as over-rated (which i strongly think it was.) was my first post on the vine. It has had zero effect on public perception, and is only my opinion. I'm pretty sure DC/Warner would rather be good in the court of public opinion than in the court of "DC fanboys"

@Pwok21 said:

Iron Man as opposed to Batman, yes it is much easier. Survival instinct is something we all have, money isn't.

Wanting justice for a loss is just as easy to understand. Beyond that, they just have different ways to use the same tool: money. Saying Iron man is easier to relate is ridiculous. They are both rich geniuses that became super-heroes. And batman's reason is just as easy to understand.

@Pwok21 said:

Also are you trying to say that people can't relate to someone who is forced into a bad situation and can relate to a selfless hero more?

Not all. I'm just saying that neither is a better character or more interesting and neither is easier to make a story with.

@Pwok21 said:

Human behaviour isn't so brilliant outside of your ivory tower pal, not everyone is selfless or aspires to selflessness.

First off I never implied anything you're implying here. Second getting into this hissy fit is not conductive. Finally, what some people aspire to has no bearing on what others may aspire too. Selflessness is something many great figures aspired too just because they could. None of them had to be everymen either.

@Crom-Cruach: I agree with you completely.

Joss Whedon did an incredible job given the requirements he was supposed to meet and on top of that made a great popcorn film. He's a very talented director/writer and the Avengers (as well as a wonderful movie called Cabin in the Woods) showed that. But was it good enough to warrant his place as the golden standard for superhero and comic book movies as well as being in the top three box office hits of all time? I don't think so.

As for the quote I think most of what he says rings true. The Marvel formula and the D.C. formula are different from one another and both work in their own ways. I doubt we will see a Justice League movie anytime soon. But maybe a Superman/Batman movie? That's seems within the realm of possibility. (To tell you the truth I'm hoping for Batman Beyond myself)

I'd be satisfied with just a new Superman movie that didn't suck. Where we can actually see him do all the amazing things is powers allow him to do.

I'm amazed at the number of people who are getting defensive or attacking Whedon over this. I don't think he's really being that critical here; all he says is that DC characters come from a slightly earlier time when characters were created differently, and that difference makes them harder to bring together into a single movie. Hardly anything to get worked up about.

@Crom-Cruach said:

I'd be satisfied with just a new Superman movie that didn't suck. Where we can actually see him do all the amazing things is powers allow him to do.

With Snyder in the director's chair, you'll get just this. Especially the latter.

@Crom-Cruach said:

@tim2081 said:

DC may have many "down to Earth" characters, but they're not as popular as Marvel's, and they're not the most popular in DC. And Batman is not down to Earth; he can do things that no normal human can ever achieve or even get close to doing.

And yet people still love them. What should that tell you? It should tell you the marvel approach isn't the only valid one.

Once again, I never said it was the only valid approach. I said it was tougher, not impossible. DC's most popular movie ever is The Dark Knight, and in that, Batman was severely toned down. He had a significant reduction in skill and intelligence compared to his comic book counterpart. Nolan humanized him so he could make a better movie.

@Manwhohaseverything: Yeah, I will always agree that every superhero is far-fetched. But assuming that someone wants to be a superhero, Spider-Man is the type that does the best he can with what he has; which is what most people do with their life. But Superman is in a constant state of holding himself back and moving at half speed, trying not to stand out; which is not very common behavior among people. It's fine to disagree with that, but it's just what makes sense to me.

@Gambit1024 said:

With Snyder in the director's chair, you'll get just this. Especially the latter.

Honestly, I never hold my breath when it comes to movies. I've been disappointed so many times in the past and my standards to what counts as a "good movie" are so impossibly high that I never hold my breath. I'll definitively go see it however.

@Gambit1024: why is everybody glorifying snider?

@joshmightbe said:

@tim2081: Didn't Spinal Tap and Mokees make it into the Rock and Roll hall of fame

They started out as fictional but became actual bands and released real albums.

@cosmo111687 said:

@tim2081 said:

@The Stegman said:

Yeah, for the first time, I disagree with Whedon, DC has just as many "down to earth" characters as Marvel. A JLA movie is possible.

DC may have many "down to Earth" characters, but they're not as popular as Marvel's, and they're not the most popular in DC. And Batman is not down to Earth; he can do things that no normal human can ever achieve or even get close to doing.

Neither company has normal human beings. That's why we call them SUPER heroes.

I agree, but Marvel's are closer to being real. Punisher, Hawkeye, and Nick Fury are on about the same level as Rambo, John McClane, and James Bond; there's nothing super about any of them. We call the former superheroes because they're associated with superheroes, and latter aren't because we realize they're supposed to portray real people. However, all of them are a little over the top.

@KainScion said:

@Gambit1024: why is everybody glorifying snider?

Well I'm glorifying him because I'm a huge fan of the 300 and Watchmen movies. They had a very nice feel to them, and the fight scenes were badass (which is something every Superman film lacked). And yeah, Sucker Punch may have been Sucker Punch, but what people don't tend to remember is that unlike 300 and Watchmen, Sucker Punch had no source material to work from. Snyder's a director, not a writer. That all being said, if there's anyone who can at least give us the Superman film we'd all have liked to have seen, he's the man to do it. Also, he's got Nolan holding his hand (Nolan picked Snyder personaly), so I don't think this movie can fail.

Well... Not fail as hard as GL did. At the very least, MoS will be beautiful to look at, but best case scenario, Superman will be redefined through cinema, which is something Returns failed to do.

@tim2081: Rambo and John McClane had at the very least Super human pain tolerance. They took crap that would send the most hard core soldiers home from war and it didn't even slow them down

@tim2081: "Punisher, Hawkeye, and Nick Fury are on about the same level as Rambo, John McClane, and James Bond; there's nothing super about any of them."

Deadshot, Green Arrow, and Amanda Waller.

And, with Punisher being an exception (since he's very far removed from the rest of the Marvel universe and is meant to be more realistic), there is something super-human about those characters. Captaining a helicarrier and having one's youth extended is super-human. Having the accuracy to shoot an arrow from a helicopter that blows up that helicarrier is super-human.

@joshmightbe said:

@tim2081: Rambo and John McClane had at the very least Super human pain tolerance. They took crap that would send the most hard core soldiers home from war and it didn't even slow them down

I establish a difference between exaggerated and superhuman. All action movie characters are exaggerated, the characters in the starring roles can take hits that would instantly kill a supporting character. Black Widow and Hawkeye were at the standard level of exaggeration that someone would expect from a normal human action star.

@Manwhohaseverything: If I could believe that Bill Gates could train himself to beat Jon Jones in a fight, or that Jon Jones could become one of the smartest men in the world, then I would say Batman is only highly unlikely. Those situations are impossible. However, I do believe that the best soldier (let's say the top US Navy Seal) could kill a small number (10-15) of untrained, out of shape Mafia guys by using guns and hit and run tactics. And even though Punisher isn't always realistic about it, it's still a significant difference from Batman. Guys like Batman, Black Panther, Captain America, and the Robins are on a higher level that is impossible to achieve. There are plenty of "down to Earth" characters from both companies, but just talking about A and B-list ones, Marvel has more, so they give the whole company that reputation. Also the Battle Boards can't be taken seriously, it's just a place where people argue that their favorite character can beat everyone.

@cosmo111687 said:

@tim2081: "Punisher, Hawkeye, and Nick Fury are on about the same level as Rambo, John McClane, and James Bond; there's nothing super about any of them."

Deadshot, Green Arrow, and Amanda Waller.

And, with Punisher being an exception (since he's very far removed from the rest of the Marvel universe and is meant to be more realistic), there is something super-human about those characters. Captaining a helicarrier and having one's youth extended is super-human. Having the accuracy to shoot an arrow from a helicopter that blows up that helicarrier is super-human.

You can't have Punisher as an exception just because he doesn't play a major role in every event. He is still one of Marvel's most popular characters, having 2 movies and a good video game within the last decade. As I said before, "DC may have many "down to Earth" characters, but they're not as popular as Marvel's, and they're not the most popular in DC." Deadshot and Amanda Waller are almost obscure. Green Arrow is getting a TV show, so his stock may rise. But I could go out right now and buy merchandise for Punisher, Hawkeye, Fury, and Widow (and I expect to see some Halloween costumes of them). Also, this topic is about a Justice League movie, and in reference to that, Deadshot, Arrow, and Waller will be non-existent in that. But Marvel's weak heroes can be a part of their biggest movie.

  @The Stegman : name a few that deserve a movie 

@The Stegman said:

Yeah, for the first time, I disagree with Whedon, DC has just as many "down to earth" characters as Marvel. A JLA movie is possible.

DC may have many "down to Earth" characters, but they're not as popular as Marvel's, and they're not the most popular in DC. And Batman is not down to Earth; he can do things that no normal human can ever achieve or even get close to doing.

You know who's going to be there? Superman, Wonder Woman, people like that. I'm just a guy who runs after jewelry thieves and talking gorillas.  

@The Stegman: 1. not what i asked you, but ok whatever who cares what the other says 2. the comparisons arent even close: superman/cap i'll let slide but even that is a stretch. batman iron man not even by a long shot: what persona did iron man create, he revealed his secret identity in in 15min and the reasons they do what they are very different. bruce is playing a playboy, tony is a playboy. having money serve as no real common grounf (i cant even think of one time iron man caught a normal bank robber). thor/ww: just be cause they have gods backing them doesnt mean they are the same: thor grew up in asgard not on earth, so no real connection to real humans, ww grew up on an island with real people. thor was sent to earth to learn humility. diana as an ambasador to her island. hulk/gl not even going to touch this. flash you are correct. MM maybe theyll try to pass as comedic relief but considering how good CGI was in GL ugh. so no. you take away every ring power etc you have: a cocky amazon, 2 aliens playing dress-up, a person with serious issues, normal guy and a guy thats so brave hes suicidal. very relatable.

@The Stegman : 1. not what i asked you, but ok whatever who cares what the other says 2. the comparisons arent even close: superman/cap i'll let slide but even that is a stretch. batman iron man not even by a long shot: what persona did iron man create, he revealed his secret identity in in 15min and the reasons they do what they are very different. bruce is playing a playboy, tony is a playboy. having money serve as no real common grounf (i cant even think of one time iron man caught a normal bank robber). thor/ww: just be cause they have gods backing them doesnt mean they are the same: thor grew up in asgard not on earth, so no real connection to real humans, ww grew up on an island with real people. thor was sent to earth to learn humility. diana as an ambasador to her island. hulk/gl not even going to touch this. flash you are correct. MM maybe theyll try to pass as comedic relief but considering how good CGI was in GL ugh. so no. you take away every ring power etc you have: a cocky amazon, 2 aliens playing dress-up, a person with serious issues, normal guy and a guy thats so brave hes suicidal. very relatable. 

@The Stegman: how is growing up on an island populated only women mythical? its more a sect than mythical. and the crack about hawkeye black widow being suicidal, i dont remember them constantly testing unsafe planes or whatever and deliberatly putting themselves in danger for the thrill of it.

I think at this point Joss Whedon's earned his stripes.

I think it was just easier to dim down Marvel's characters and bring them to the big screen. Giving the audience a more realist superhero movie. I mean I think this is why Batman has been so successful. He too is easy to bring to the screen. Where if there was a JL movie, it would be much harder to combine all those heros to a realist story that an average audience would watch. Most people who go to the movie don't know anything about the comics. I had a hard time trying to convince my sister that Thor himself couldn't have solved the entire Alien invasion in the Avenger movie, she thought he was all powerful and could do it himself. I think what Whedon means is that most average people who see the movie would wonder, why couldn't Superman just take care of this? Because for some reason, superhero movies need to be logical and realistic. It's sad but true.

@The Stegman: I think the powers are a big deal because it shapes who you are. If you're nearly immortal with the power to leave the planet, but you choose to stay and try to live a normal life, you can't be compared to the people who have to stay because they can't leave. Also, you can aspire to be similar to the Avengers, other than Hulk and Thor. The skills, abilities, and stories are greatly exaggerated, obviously because it's fiction, but there are people in real life who get a lot closer to being an Avenger than they ever could to the Justice League.

Captain America - Navy Seals

Iron Man - Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, Elon Musk (movie version of Tony Stark was inspired by him)

Hawkeye - CIA agents, marksmen

Black Widow - Anna Chapman

Nick Fury - Colin Powell, David Patraeus (4-star General, current Director of the CIA)

@RainEffect said:

@cattlebattle said:

STFU Whedon....your not that great..

You're*

Also, the Avengers dominance at the Box Office and overwhelmingly positive critical reception beg to differ.

Hahah. I was going to say the exact same thing.

I'd be satisfied with just a new Superman movie that didn't suck. Where we can actually see him do all the amazing things is powers allow him to do.

I think especially if people still have the Christopher Reeves/Silver-age Superman on their minds. The guy that can fly through the time stream under his own power. Superman as he currently is, is still very powerful, but probably no more powerful than Thor. That's why I think before a JLA movie is even considered, Warner/DC MUST first have a good Superman movie. One that even shows that while he's still extremely powerful, he's not the Silver-age guy. Superman is too pivotal for DC, and the best Superman movie cannot be from 1980. Man of Steel must be good. If it is (assuming DKR is going to be good) DC will have gained significant ground on Marvel movie-wise. If Man of Steel= Superman Returns. They're going to lose significant ground.

@cattlebattle said:

@RainEffect said:

@cattlebattle said:

STFU Whedon....your not that great..

You're*

Also, the Avengers dominance at the Box Office and overwhelmingly positive critical reception beg to differ.

1. We are not in grammar class ...so who gives a crap

I give a crap!

@cattlebattle said:

@RainEffect said:

@cattlebattle said:

STFU Whedon....your not that great..

You're*

Also, the Avengers dominance at the Box Office and overwhelmingly positive critical reception beg to differ.

1. We are not in grammar class ...so who gives a crap

I give a crap!

You also like Superman returns Erik, your opinions are to be taken with a grain of salt ;)

@cattlebattle said:

sory I well be shore to use propper grammar and punchuation next tyme

MY EYES!!!!

@Crom-Cruach said:

You also like Superman returns Erik, your opinions are to be taken with a grain of salt ;)

Superman Returns is good!

@Erik said:

Superman Returns is good!

Just like Ghost Rider, Elektra and Rise of the Silver Surfer were.

@cattlebattle said:

sory I well be shore to use propper grammar and punchuation next tyme

MY EYES!!!!

@Crom-Cruach said:

You also like Superman returns Erik, your opinions are to be taken with a grain of salt ;)

Superman Returns is good!

Are they actually going to make a Justice League movie? I feel like I've been hearing a lot about it.

@MasterofChaos: Alledgedly, like they've promised for years.

@cattlebattle said:

@Erik said:

@cattlebattle said:

sory I well be shore to use propper grammar and punchuation next tyme

MY EYES!!!!

@Crom-Cruach said:

You also like Superman returns Erik, your opinions are to be taken with a grain of salt ;)

Superman Returns is good!

LOL and just to stick my head into this argument for no reason.......Superman Returns is a very well done, entertaining movie, I firmly believe fans hate it because it didn't have Superman flying around punching everything and things exploding every ten seconds.

Finally, someone else that appreciates the art of the film.

@Crom-Cruach said:

@Erik said:

Superman Returns is good!

Just like Ghost Rider, Elektra and Rise of the Silver Surfer were.

You basically just stabbed a puppy as far as I am concerned.

@Erik said:

You basically just stabbed a puppy as far as I am concerned.

It will be tasty roasting over a fire with the right sauces and spices.

DC fans have got to realise they're heroes are too over powered, and you know why Dark Knight did well (aside from Nolans awesome direction) was the fact the 'dumbed' him down. He isn't a master of every martial arts with a genius intellect. He is a rich guy who got trained well, has smart friends, and only fights humans.