Cain Marko, also known as the Juggernaut, is the step-brother of X-Men founder Charles Xavier and the avatar of Cyttorak. Powered by the Crimson Gem of Cyttorak, Marko is bestowed virtually limitless brute strength and durability which he mostly uses for criminal pursuits and wanton destruction. The Juggernaut is considered one of the strongest and most powerful beings on Earth.
Juggernaut is not stronger than WWH. Juggernaut starts off stronger than Hulk's base level, but Hulk can become stronger(WWH for example). Juggernaut is probably weaker than Herc actually.
No it wouldn't you just said he is slightly stronger than WWH which i don't agree with he's actually slightly weaker but he is far more durable and Herc would have no way of effecting him physically so like in WWH Her would get wrecked again.
"No it wouldn't you just said he is slightly stronger than WWH which i don't agree with he's actually slightly weaker but he is far more durable and Herc would have no way of effecting him physically so like in WWH Her would get wrecked again."
Herc got beat in WWH because he wasn't there to fight but you know the Hulk, you can't reason with him. In Hulk vs Herc: When Titans Collide they were an equal match.
The Juggy that's been around for the last couple of years actually has been quite depowered. He recently got back to full power by Cyttorak in WWH: X-Men, but i don't think he's been seen anywhere since. His upper strength level is not known, but it's well over 100 tons.
I know this will start an old arguement but the Juggernaut isn't stronger than any Hulk (accept for Gray). He's more resistant to injury and physical harm, which makes him a match for the Hulk. I would put his strength at maybe Thor level, not Herc or the Hulk.
"I know this will start an old arguement but the Juggernaut isn't stronger than any Hulk (accept for Gray). He's more resistant to injury and physical harm, which makes him a match for the Hulk. I would put his strength at maybe Thor level, not Herc or the Hulk. "
I will just copy (myself) from another board to save time. On the same topic . Juggs vs Herc.
"I think he can come close but I don't think he can match him.
Herc=Thor in the strength department. And The Juggernaut has always shown to be physically stronger than Thor. He lays him out nearly every time he hits him. Plus Thor did not dispute when Juggs stated he is easily Thor's equal in strength.
Against another common foe like The Hulk. Well Hulk has almost always shown to be stronger than Herc. And in the last battle in a direct test a strength The Juggernaut matched or exceeded (depending on how you view the panel) the strongest Hulk there had ever been(as had been stated many many times).
Keeping that in mind it's quite obvious The Juggernaut is physically stronger. Add that up with everything else. Herc can hang for awhile. But he will be overpowered. "
"I know this will start an old arguement but the Juggernaut isn't stronger than any Hulk (accept for Gray). He's more resistant to injury and physical harm, which makes him a match for the Hulk. I would put his strength at maybe Thor level, not Herc or the Hulk. "
I will just copy (myself) from another board to save time. On the same topic . Juggs vs Herc.
"I think he can come close but I don't think he can match him.
Herc=Thor in the strength department. And The Juggernaut has always shown to be physically stronger than Thor. He lays him out nearly every time he hits him. Plus Thor did not dispute when Juggs stated he is easily Thor's equal in strength.
Against another common foe like The Hulk. Well Hulk has almost always shown to be stronger than Herc. And in the last battle in a direct test a strength The Juggernaut matched or exceeded (depending on how you view the panel) the strongest Hulk there had ever been(as had been stated many many times).
Keeping that in mind it's quite obvious The Juggernaut is physically stronger. Add that up with everything else. Herc can hang for awhile. But he will be overpowered. "
It's fairly simple logic.
"
What makes you think it was strength that matched the Hulk in WWH? It seems to me that its the Juggernauts enchantment (nothing stops him) that enbale him to stay toe to toe with the Hulk. And like I've said before, that's more of a testament to the Hulk than Juggernaut. If nothing stops him, why was he not making any forward movement with the Hulk? Thor was never as strong as Herc, it was always the hammer or his godly power that beat Hercules. By your own statement of the Juggernaut being a match for Thor means his even or slight;y higher, Either way that's not Herc strength or an enraged Hulk.
"What makes you think it was strength that matched the Hulk in WWH? It seems to me that its the Juggernauts enchantment (nothing stops him) that enbale him to stay toe to toe with the Hulk. And like I've said before, that's more of a testament to the Hulk than Juggernaut. If nothing stops him, why was he not making any forward movement with the Hulk? Thor was never as strong as Herc, it was always the hammer or his godly power that beat Hercules. By your own statement of the Juggernaut being a match for Thor means his even or slight;y higher, Either way that's not Herc strength or an enraged Hulk."
If he was running at Hulk I would agree with you. But they were at a standstill when they locked up. Now from that standstill Juggs either A. Started pushing Hulk back (IE overpowered him) or B They stayed deadlocked. (matching Strongest Hulk ever)
As for you Herc is physically stronger than Thor. Where did you come up with that? One famous comic has them arm wrestling on a planet at a standstill for an extended period of time. Indicating that they are equal in strength. And I have seen nothing on Herc's part that would have me place him above Thor.
So I stick by my statement. Everything that I have seen makes it the logical arguement.
ALSO. You have seen the scans where marvel admits The Juggernaut's strength is unlimited. Why ignore that?
"What makes you think it was strength that matched the Hulk in WWH? It seems to me that its the Juggernauts enchantment (nothing stops him) that enbale him to stay toe to toe with the Hulk. And like I've said before, that's more of a testament to the Hulk than Juggernaut. If nothing stops him, why was he not making any forward movement with the Hulk? Thor was never as strong as Herc, it was always the hammer or his godly power that beat Hercules. By your own statement of the Juggernaut being a match for Thor means his even or slight;y higher, Either way that's not Herc strength or an enraged Hulk."
If he was running at Hulk I would agree with you. But they were at a standstill when they locked up. Now from that standstill Juggs either A. Started pushing Hulk back (IE overpowered him) or B They stayed deadlocked. (matching Strongest Hulk ever)
As for you Herc is physically stronger than Thor. Where did you come up with that? One famous comic has them arm wrestling on a planet at a standstill for an extended period of time. Indicating that they are equal in strength. And I have seen nothing on Herc's part that would have me place him above Thor.
So I stick by my statement. Everything that I have seen makes it the logical arguement.
ALSO. You have seen the scans where marvel admits The Juggernaut's strength is unlimited. Why ignore that?
"
The pic before that was them running at each other, then it showed them in a deadlock. So I would assume that they both were in forward motion.
I know that it has been said that the Juggernaut (lke the Hulk) strength is unlimited, but other than taking blows from others, I never actually seen feats of strength from him. Do you know of any? LIke the Hulk shattering that small asteroid. Or Hercules puling an island. I believe his strength isn't applied like it is with the two mentioned.
As far as Thor being equal to Herc. I've never seen Thor beat Herc with just strength, or last against opponents like the Hulk with strength alone. No storm power or hammer blows. Fist to fist.
I'm not saying your logic is wrong, just that my opinion is based on logic as well. We just see things differently.
"What makes you think it was strength that matched the Hulk in WWH? It seems to me that its the Juggernauts enchantment (nothing stops him) that enbale him to stay toe to toe with the Hulk. And like I've said before, that's more of a testament to the Hulk than Juggernaut. If nothing stops him, why was he not making any forward movement with the Hulk? Thor was never as strong as Herc, it was always the hammer or his godly power that beat Hercules. By your own statement of the Juggernaut being a match for Thor means his even or slight;y higher, Either way that's not Herc strength or an enraged Hulk."
If he was running at Hulk I would agree with you. But they were at a standstill when they locked up. Now from that standstill Juggs either A. Started pushing Hulk back (IE overpowered him) or B They stayed deadlocked. (matching Strongest Hulk ever)
As for you Herc is physically stronger than Thor. Where did you come up with that? One famous comic has them arm wrestling on a planet at a standstill for an extended period of time. Indicating that they are equal in strength. And I have seen nothing on Herc's part that would have me place him above Thor.
So I stick by my statement. Everything that I have seen makes it the logical arguement.
ALSO. You have seen the scans where marvel admits The Juggernaut's strength is unlimited. Why ignore that?
"
If you read Hercules's profile you will see his strenght is unlimited since he can increase his strenght.
If you read Hercules's profile you will see his strenght is unlimited since he can increase his strenght."
Since when?"
When he retained his god hood."
Let me put it a different way. Since when was that ever a part of his power set? This is the only place I have ever seen it said he could increase his strength.
If you read Hercules's profile you will see his strenght is unlimited since he can increase his strenght."
Since when?"
When he retained his god hood."
Let me put it a different way. Since when was that ever a part of his power set? This is the only place I have ever seen it said he could increase his strength."
He didn't accept Zeus's offer to become a full god again, so obviously if he retains his godhood he will be the god of strenght and obviously he will be able to increase his strenght.
If you read Hercules's profile you will see his strenght is unlimited since he can increase his strenght."
Since when?"
When he retained his god hood."
Let me put it a different way. Since when was that ever a part of his power set? This is the only place I have ever seen it said he could increase his strength."
He didn't accept Zeus's offer to become a full god again, so obviously if he retains his godhood he will be the god of strenght and obviously he will be able to increase his strenght."
You said obviously twice.
But as far as I know only skyfathers can increase strength with magic. None of the other Marvel Gods I have seen have that ability. And I have never seen it stated anywhere (other than here) that Herc has that particular power.
If you read Hercules's profile you will see his strenght is unlimited since he can increase his strenght."
Since when?"
When he retained his god hood."
Let me put it a different way. Since when was that ever a part of his power set? This is the only place I have ever seen it said he could increase his strength."
He didn't accept Zeus's offer to become a full god again, so obviously if he retains his godhood he will be the god of strenght and obviously he will be able to increase his strenght."
You said obviously twice.
But as far as I know only skyfathers can increase strength with magic. None of the other Marvel Gods I have seen have that ability. And I have never seen it stated anywhere (other than here) that Herc has that particular power. "
Sorry about saying obviously twice it eas a mistake of the keyboard. Herc probably can't do that.
"What makes you think it was strength that matched the Hulk in WWH? It seems to me that its the Juggernauts enchantment (nothing stops him) that enbale him to stay toe to toe with the Hulk. And like I've said before, that's more of a testament to the Hulk than Juggernaut. If nothing stops him, why was he not making any forward movement with the Hulk? Thor was never as strong as Herc, it was always the hammer or his godly power that beat Hercules. By your own statement of the Juggernaut being a match for Thor means his even or slight;y higher, Either way that's not Herc strength or an enraged Hulk."
If he was running at Hulk I would agree with you. But they were at a standstill when they locked up. Now from that standstill Juggs either A. Started pushing Hulk back (IE overpowered him) or B They stayed deadlocked. (matching Strongest Hulk ever)
As for you Herc is physically stronger than Thor. Where did you come up with that? One famous comic has them arm wrestling on a planet at a standstill for an extended period of time. Indicating that they are equal in strength. And I have seen nothing on Herc's part that would have me place him above Thor.
So I stick by my statement. Everything that I have seen makes it the logical arguement.
ALSO. You have seen the scans where marvel admits The Juggernaut's strength is unlimited. Why ignore that?
"
The pic before that was them running at each other, then it showed them in a deadlock. So I would assume that they both were in forward motion.
I know that it has been said that the Juggernaut (lke the Hulk) strength is unlimited, but other than taking blows from others, I never actually seen feats of strength from him. Do you know of any? LIke the Hulk shattering that small asteroid. Or Hercules puling an island. I believe his strength isn't applied like it is with the two mentioned.
As far as Thor being equal to Herc. I've never seen Thor beat Herc with just strength, or last against opponents like the Hulk with strength alone. No storm power or hammer blows. Fist to fist.
I'm not saying your logic is wrong, just that my opinion is based on logic as well. We just see things differently."
There aren't really many feats for 2 reasons. A. you just don't see him very often b. hes a villain. He won't pick up a mountiain to save the people next to him, simply because he doesn't care about them. He would just let it fall on him, since it won't do anything anyway. Juggernaut only cares about himself, making money, and (occaisionally, and probably not anymore) black tom. If you aren't one of those things, then he simply could not care less.
No, he can increase his strenght that doesn't mean its immeasurable. People with immeasurable strenght are Galactus, the Celestials, and others. Having immeasurable strenght is too much, he can increase his strenght but its not immeasurable.
No, he can increase his strenght that doesn't mean its immeasurable. People with immeasurable strenght are Galactus, the Celestials, and others. Having immeasurable strenght is too much, he can increase his strenght but its not immeasurable."
No, he can increase his strenght that doesn't mean its immeasurable. People with immeasurable strenght are Galactus, the Celestials, and others. Having immeasurable strenght is too much, he can increase his strenght but its not immeasurable."
what's the limit of his strength then?"
He doesn't have one maybe, Juggernaut can increase his strenght but slowly so it is measurable, if it was immeasurable i tment he could probably lift anything.
No, he can increase his strenght that doesn't mean its immeasurable. People with immeasurable strenght are Galactus, the Celestials, and others. Having immeasurable strenght is too much, he can increase his strenght but its not immeasurable."
what's the limit of his strength then?"
He doesn't have one maybe, Juggernaut can increase his strenght but slowly so it is measurable, if it was immeasurable i tment he could probably lift anything."
I agree. That's why him and the Hulk has been listed as having limitless strength because the potential is there but they are hendered by how they increase their strength. Unlike characters like Eternity or Galactus who have immeasurable levels.
No, he can increase his strenght that doesn't mean its immeasurable. People with immeasurable strenght are Galactus, the Celestials, and others. Having immeasurable strenght is too much, he can increase his strenght but its not immeasurable."
what's the limit of his strength then?"
We don't have proof that the Juggernaut's strength is unlimited or than it is limited for that matter, you can't say that the Juggernaut doesn't have a strength limit because he has never shown his limit, it is like saying Hercules's strength is unlimited but he has never shown his limit.
"Sorry about saying obviously twice it eas a mistake of the keyboard. Herc probably can't do that."
He never could increase his strength. It is what it is.
Alpha said:
"I know that it has been said that the Juggernaut (lke the Hulk) strength is unlimited, but other than taking blows from others, I never actually seen feats of strength from him. Do you know of any? LIke the Hulk shattering that small asteroid. Or Hercules puling an island. I believe his strength isn't applied like it is with the two mentioned.
As far as Thor being equal to Herc. I've never seen Thor beat Herc with just strength, or last against opponents like the Hulk with strength alone. No storm power or hammer blows. Fist to fist.
I'm not saying your logic is wrong, just that my opinion is based on logic as well. We just see things differently."
Youre not likely to see any strength feats for Juggernaut because of who and what he is. He isnt interested in lifting anything for any purpose. He isn't interested in towing anything. He simply wants to go where he wants, take what he wants and pummel whoever gets in his way. Besides he could easily tow an island thought that wouldn't show his strength. The enchantment on him keeps virtually anything from stopping his forward progress, so he could probably pull a chain of planets behind him, if he had something to walk on. However this is just a theory because there may be some limit as Hulk and Thor have slowed him down to almost a dead stop before.
As for Thor and Hercules's strength levels, they are basically the same. Whoever mentioned that arm wrestling match between the two was correct. This was used to show that they are so close in strength that you can not tell the difference between the two. The reason that Hercules can defeat Thor in a hand to hand fight is because Hercules is a better fighter than Thor is.
"Juggernaut is strong, really strong, he is slightly stronger than Hulk (even as WWH). He is incredibly strong that he is a math for Hercules, Juggernaut vs Hercules would probably end in a draw. So just how strong is Juggernaut?
Juggernaut"
juggernaut vs hercules would end with hercules knocked unconscious.
Juggernaut would increase his physical strength immeasurable like a Galactus or Celestials when he needs!!!. In fact, I think Jugg is an avatar of God of Universe Destruction so he can use his force to end all living and superheros of the earth, including silver superman!!!!
"Juggernaut would increase his physical strength immeasurable like a Galactus or Celestials when he needs!!!. In fact, I think Jugg is an avatar of God of Universe Destruction so he can use his force to end all living and superheros of the earth, including silver superman!!!! "
Juggs beat WWH he is stronger than any Hulk hands down,
Hercules should not been in this conversation. Hulk, Thor and Juggs would all beat him in a fight.
Thor would also beat Hulk.
kenshiroo said:
"Juggernaut would increase his physical strength immeasurable like a Galactus or Celestials when he needs!!!. In fact, I think Jugg is an avatar of God of Universe Destruction so he can use his force to end all living and superheros of the earth, including silver superman!!!! "
Juggernaut is more strongest than Hulk!! theres is no doubt about this!! in fact, the official word at Marvel is that Juggernaut is Hulks superior in the strength department!! Juggernaut has infinite strength potential and then some because his powers are derived from a gem that channels a Demon called Cyttorak, that is of Godly power!!!
"Juggernaut is more strongest than Hulk!! theres is no doubt about this!! in fact, the official word at Marvel is that Juggernaut is Hulks superior in the strength department!! Juggernaut has infinite strength potential and then some because his powers are derived from a gem that channels a Demon called Cyttorak, that is of Godly power!!!"
Uhhhh... Hulk is the strongest one there is! He says so himself all the time.
The Juggernaut is stronger than the Hulk, plain and simple. That's not to say the Hulk can't reach Juggernaut-level strength or accomplish Juggernaut-like feats. The same is true, in my opinion, about the Juggernaut -- vice verse -- with all the planet busting and Island pulling. I think the writers used these characters to stimulate readers fantasies and illustrate unique forms of strength, or strength applied in unconventional ways.
Hercules has tugged Islands with a mere chain
The Hulk has destroyed planet-size asteroids, rendered secondary adamantium, etc.
The Juggernaut kept his advance and casually withstood the Godblast, punched through space-time, etc.
When you think about it, most of these events aren't even feasible. I think the Juggernaut's strength comes from his unstoppability, in order to move something you must push it forward in the direction you want it to go. So the Juggernaut's unstoppable forward motion is the dynamics behind his power. For the record, forward motion is the dynamics behind everyone's strength. If we have to compare feats, then it may be easy to say one character is stronger than another, but feats aren't the ultimate expression of strength. Awkwardly, potential is. Since all four of the guys mentioned are operating in the realm of either unlimited or immeasurable strength, people usually gauge them by their feats. I think in the long run, Juggernaut's strength would be the proven force out of the company. It's been stated in a Marvel letter, is theoretically more sound, and is simply more consistent with the character -- being supernatural in nature and all.
Hulk did not, it was Apocalypse celestial armor energy that increased his level strength, also remain Hulk had a sword and tentacles be able to fight him!!! Savage, professor and WWH Hulk cannot stop the Juggernaut!!
"The Juggernaut is stronger than the Hulk, plain and simple. That's not to say the Hulk can't reach Juggernaut-level strength or accomplish Juggernaut-like feats. The same is true, in my opinion, about the Juggernaut -- vice verse -- with all the planet busting and Island pulling. I think the writers used these characters to stimulate readers fantasies and illustrate unique forms of strength, or strength applied in unconventional ways.
Hercules has tugged Islands with a mere chain
The Hulk has destroyed planet-size asteroids, rendered secondary adamantium, etc.
The Juggernaut kept his advance and casually withstood the Godblast, punched through space-time, etc.
When you think about it, most of these events aren't even feasible. I think the Juggernaut's strength comes from his unstoppability, in order to move something you must push it forward in the direction you want it to go. So the Juggernaut's unstoppable forward motion is the dynamics behind his power. For the record, forward motion is the dynamics behind everyone's strength. If we have to compare feats, then it may be easy to say one character is stronger than another, but feats aren't the ultimate expression of strength. Awkwardly, potential is. Since all four of the guys mentioned are operating in the realm of either unlimited or immeasurable strength, people usually gauge them by their feats. I think in the long run, Juggernaut's strength would be the proven force out of the company. It's been stated in a Marvel letter, is theoretically more sound, and is simply more consistent with the character -- being supernatural in nature and all. "
Juggernaut isn't stronger than Hulk.Plain and Simple.Hulk's strength feats are beyond Juggernauts.The only reason his has a chance in fights with Hulk is because of his magical durability and forward motion invulnerability.
"Hulk did not, it was Apocalypse celestial armor energy that increased his level strength, also remain Hulk had a sword and tentacles be able to fight him!!! Savage, professor and WWH Hulk cannot stop the Juggernaut!! "
I'm a little confused, is this a response to me? @_@. Or is this just a general statement?
Vance Astro said:
"Omega-level Supreme said:
"The Juggernaut is stronger than the Hulk, plain and simple. That's not to say the Hulk can't reach Juggernaut-level strength or accomplish Juggernaut-like feats. The same is true, in my opinion, about the Juggernaut -- vice verse -- with all the planet busting and Island pulling. I think the writers used these characters to stimulate readers fantasies and illustrate unique forms of strength, or strength applied in unconventional ways.
Hercules has tugged Islands with a mere chain
The Hulk has destroyed planet-size asteroids, rendered secondary adamantium, etc.
The Juggernaut kept his advance and casually withstood the Godblast, punched through space-time, etc.
When you think about it, most of these events aren't even feasible. I think the Juggernaut's strength comes from his unstoppability, in order to move something you must push it forward in the direction you want it to go. So the Juggernaut's unstoppable forward motion is the dynamics behind his power. For the record, forward motion is the dynamics behind everyone's strength. If we have to compare feats, then it may be easy to say one character is stronger than another, but feats aren't the ultimate expression of strength. Awkwardly, potential is. Since all four of the guys mentioned are operating in the realm of either unlimited or immeasurable strength, people usually gauge them by their feats. I think in the long run, Juggernaut's strength would be the proven force out of the company. It's been stated in a Marvel letter, is theoretically more sound, and is simply more consistent with the character -- being supernatural in nature and all. "
Juggernaut isn't stronger than Hulk.Plain and Simple.Hulk's strength feats are beyond Juggernauts.The only reason his has a chance in fights with Hulk is because of his magical durability and forward motion invulnerability."
Forward motion invulnerability??? Please explain what that means?
I know you didn't misunderstand my post, but my statement was basically about how people gauge strength (using feats) as opposed to actually ascertaining absolute strength. If it's truly immeasurable or unlimited, verifying how strong someone is or who is stronger than whom is impossible. However, my statement of Juggy being stronger than Hulk was semi-facetious and theoretical at the most, I used it as a foundation to build up to my conclusion. If you want to talk about it, however, thats fine by me.
What is meant in that which is written, is that we know the Hulk gets stronger as he gets angrier and I've read (multiple times) that his base strength is somewhere around 70 - 100 ton (depending on the source) range, while it he has still been given the grand distinction of having unlimited strength. Juggernaut, on the other hand, can also boast this title -- while in fact never actually showing a recognizable strength increase. So at least at some point and time we may be able to get a beam on the Hulks strength (before he rage increasese it), we could never really do the same with the Juggernaut since, for most if not all purposes, his "forward motion invulnerability" is in fact his strength. He's enchanted throughout, and none of his powers come from raw muscular strength like the Hulk. What he does or does not do in a story does not automatically disqualify or diminish his capacity either. Given the nature of this guy. Their is a reason they call him the "Examplar of Power".
If you really believe the Hulk is stronger than Juggernaut, than with evidence, please tell me what can't the Juggernaut do that the Hulk can? I'm not referring to what he hasn't been shown attempting, I mean what has he tried to do (strength wise) and has failed at, yet the Hulk managed.
"Hulk did not, it was Apocalypse celestial armor energy that increased his level strength, also remain Hulk had a sword and tentacles be able to fight him!!! Savage, professor and WWH Hulk cannot stop the Juggernaut!! "
I'm a little confused, is this a response to me? @_@. Or is this just a general statement?
Vance Astro said:
"Omega-level Supreme said:
"The Juggernaut is stronger than the Hulk, plain and simple. That's not to say the Hulk can't reach Juggernaut-level strength or accomplish Juggernaut-like feats. The same is true, in my opinion, about the Juggernaut -- vice verse -- with all the planet busting and Island pulling. I think the writers used these characters to stimulate readers fantasies and illustrate unique forms of strength, or strength applied in unconventional ways.
Hercules has tugged Islands with a mere chain
The Hulk has destroyed planet-size asteroids, rendered secondary adamantium, etc.
The Juggernaut kept his advance and casually withstood the Godblast, punched through space-time, etc.
When you think about it, most of these events aren't even feasible. I think the Juggernaut's strength comes from his unstoppability, in order to move something you must push it forward in the direction you want it to go. So the Juggernaut's unstoppable forward motion is the dynamics behind his power. For the record, forward motion is the dynamics behind everyone's strength. If we have to compare feats, then it may be easy to say one character is stronger than another, but feats aren't the ultimate expression of strength. Awkwardly, potential is. Since all four of the guys mentioned are operating in the realm of either unlimited or immeasurable strength, people usually gauge them by their feats. I think in the long run, Juggernaut's strength would be the proven force out of the company. It's been stated in a Marvel letter, is theoretically more sound, and is simply more consistent with the character -- being supernatural in nature and all. "
Juggernaut isn't stronger than Hulk.Plain and Simple.Hulk's strength feats are beyond Juggernauts.The only reason his has a chance in fights with Hulk is because of his magical durability and forward motion invulnerability."
Forward motion invulnerability??? Please explain what that means?
I know you didn't misunderstand my post, but my statement was basically about how people gauge strength (using feats) as opposed to actually ascertaining absolute strength. If it's truly immeasurable or unlimited, verifying how strong someone is or who is stronger than whom is impossible. However, my statement of Juggy being stronger than Hulk was semi-facetious and theoretical at the most, I used it as a foundation to build up to my conclusion. If you want to talk about it, however, thats fine by me.
What is meant in that which is written, is that we know the Hulk gets stronger as he gets angrier and I've read (multiple times) that his base strength is somewhere around 70 - 100 ton (depending on the source) range, while it he has still been given the grand distinction of having unlimited strength. Juggernaut, on the other hand, can also boast this title -- while in fact never actually showing a recognizable strength increase. So at least at some point and time we may be able to get a beam on the Hulks strength (before he rage increasese it), we could never really do the same with the Juggernaut since, for most if not all purposes, his "forward motion invulnerability" is in fact his strength. He's enchanted throughout, and none of his powers come from raw muscular strength like the Hulk. What he does or does not do in a story does not automatically disqualify or diminish his capacity either. Given the nature of this guy. Their is a reason they call him the "Examplar of Power".
If you really believe the Hulk is stronger than Juggernaut, than with evidence, please tell me what can't the Juggernaut do that the Hulk can? I'm not referring to what he hasn't been shown attempting, I mean what has he tried to do (strength wise) and has failed at, yet the Hulk managed. "
Juggernaut cannot be stopped,pushed,lifted etc while moving forward.
It's not impossible to figure out who is stronger between Juggernaut and Hulk.Hulk and Sentry have bot been declared by Marvel to have unlimited strength..however you can clearly see based on what has been shown in comics that Sentry is clearly stronger than regular Savage Hulk but not stronger than other incarnations..such as The Green Scar Hulk from the Planet\World War Hulk series.
Hulk's doesn't have a base strength anymore...you're talking about in like the 90's.His strength is immeasurable whether he's pissed or relaxed now.Hulk's feats of strength even against Juggernaut are greater than what Juggernaut has been shown to do.In most of their bouts,no matter what version of Hulk it was,Hulk more times than not at all seems to show Juggernaut what's what.Other times they've been shown to be equals.
Juggernaut's invulnerability in forward motion is not his strength..it's a magical effect.Invulnerability isn't strength to begin with..it's durability.
I haven't seen Juggernaut do much of anything strength wise.You never see him fail at lifting something...almost nobody does that in comics but from what I have seen of Juggernaut's actual lifting feats...he has not shown to be able to lift anything anywhere near what Hulk has.
Juggernaut cannot be stopped,pushed,lifted etc while moving forward. Are you sure he can't be 'pushed' (accelerated) in the direction he's already moving? I did not know he could not be lifted. That's informative.
It's not impossible to figure out who is stronger between Juggernaut and Hulk.Hulk and Sentry have bot been declared by Marvel to have unlimited strength..however you can clearly see based on what has been shown in comics that Sentry is clearly stronger than regular Savage Hulk but not stronger than other incarnations..such as The Green Scar Hulk from the Planet\World War Hulk series. The nature between the Hulk, Sentry and the Juggernaut's strength are too diverse to do a consistent or meaningful comparison. Excuse me if I disregard this statement. I understand what your trying to convey here (the power of illustration as opposed to abstraction), but this is a serious apples vs oranges argument (muscle vs psychic compared to muscle vs magic), and I like grapes.
Hulk's doesn't have a base strength anymore...you're talking about in like the 90's.His strength is immeasurable whether he's pissed or relaxed now.Hulk's feats of strength even against Juggernaut are greater than what Juggernaut has been shown to do.In most of their bouts,no matter what version of Hulk it was,Hulk more times than not at all seems to show Juggernaut what's what.Other times they've been shown to be equals. There is a ring of truth to what you write, although a lot of it comes off as opinion. I will say in most fights the Hulk does seem to possess an unparalleled level of vigor. Not having a base level is also new to me, but I'm sure it is more recent then the 90's. I remember reading stuff where a base was still given only a few years ago, regardless I guess I need to do some homework. Has Marvel done away with that adage, "the madder Hulk gets, the stronger Hulk gets"?
Juggernaut's invulnerability in forward motion is not his strength..it's a magical effect.Invulnerability isn't strength to begin with..it's durability. Excuse me if I misapplied that phrase you coined, I guessed you were talking about the same thing I was in my thesis. I concluded that forward motion was the dynamics (cause) of strength -- or the measurement of physical work one person can perform. If this is correct then the same power that governs the Juggernaut's irresistible motion, should also govern what we readily perceive as his strength once his limbs or other appendages are independently engaged in forward motion. For example, character X would never stand a chance at beating the Juggernaut in an arm wrestling match once the Juggernaut arm started to advance he is guaranteed to win.
I haven't seen Juggernaut do much of anything strength wise.You never see him fail at lifting something...almost nobody does that in comics but from what I have seen of Juggernaut's actual lifting feats...he has not shown to be able to lift anything anywhere near what Hulk has. Thus my point, how can we come to a definite conclusion based off FEATS he has never attempted. My baby brother (17 yrs old now) is capable of lifting well in excess of 200 lbs. I personally stop weight lifting at the age of 14 (I started at that age to) and have never lifted more than 168 lbs. I do not lift weight now, but the other day I challenged my brothers to an arm wrestling match. I beat my younger brother and stalemated baby brother. Who is strongest?
"Hulk did not, it was Apocalypse celestial armor energy that increased his level strength, also remain Hulk had a sword and tentacles be able to fight him!!! Savage, professor and WWH Hulk cannot stop the Juggernaut!! "
I'm a little confused, is this a response to me? @_@. Or is this just a general statement?
Vance Astro said:
"Omega-level Supreme said:
"The Juggernaut is stronger than the Hulk, plain and simple. That's not to say the Hulk can't reach Juggernaut-level strength or accomplish Juggernaut-like feats. The same is true, in my opinion, about the Juggernaut -- vice verse -- with all the planet busting and Island pulling. I think the writers used these characters to stimulate readers fantasies and illustrate unique forms of strength, or strength applied in unconventional ways.
Hercules has tugged Islands with a mere chain
The Hulk has destroyed planet-size asteroids, rendered secondary adamantium, etc.
The Juggernaut kept his advance and casually withstood the Godblast, punched through space-time, etc.
When you think about it, most of these events aren't even feasible. I think the Juggernaut's strength comes from his unstoppability, in order to move something you must push it forward in the direction you want it to go. So the Juggernaut's unstoppable forward motion is the dynamics behind his power. For the record, forward motion is the dynamics behind everyone's strength. If we have to compare feats, then it may be easy to say one character is stronger than another, but feats aren't the ultimate expression of strength. Awkwardly, potential is. Since all four of the guys mentioned are operating in the realm of either unlimited or immeasurable strength, people usually gauge them by their feats. I think in the long run, Juggernaut's strength would be the proven force out of the company. It's been stated in a Marvel letter, is theoretically more sound, and is simply more consistent with the character -- being supernatural in nature and all. "
Juggernaut isn't stronger than Hulk.Plain and Simple.Hulk's strength feats are beyond Juggernauts.The only reason his has a chance in fights with Hulk is because of his magical durability and forward motion invulnerability."
Forward motion invulnerability??? Please explain what that means?
I know you didn't misunderstand my post, but my statement was basically about how people gauge strength (using feats) as opposed to actually ascertaining absolute strength. If it's truly immeasurable or unlimited, verifying how strong someone is or who is stronger than whom is impossible. However, my statement of Juggy being stronger than Hulk was semi-facetious and theoretical at the most, I used it as a foundation to build up to my conclusion. If you want to talk about it, however, thats fine by me.
What is meant in that which is written, is that we know the Hulk gets stronger as he gets angrier and I've read (multiple times) that his base strength is somewhere around 70 - 100 ton (depending on the source) range, while it he has still been given the grand distinction of having unlimited strength. Juggernaut, on the other hand, can also boast this title -- while in fact never actually showing a recognizable strength increase. So at least at some point and time we may be able to get a beam on the Hulks strength (before he rage increasese it), we could never really do the same with the Juggernaut since, for most if not all purposes, his "forward motion invulnerability" is in fact his strength. He's enchanted throughout, and none of his powers come from raw muscular strength like the Hulk. What he does or does not do in a story does not automatically disqualify or diminish his capacity either. Given the nature of this guy. Their is a reason they call him the "Examplar of Power".
If you really believe the Hulk is stronger than Juggernaut, than with evidence, please tell me what can't the Juggernaut do that the Hulk can? I'm not referring to what he hasn't been shown attempting, I mean what has he tried to do (strength wise) and has failed at, yet the Hulk managed. "
Juggernaut WON THE TEST OF STRENGTH IN WWHULK!!! HE PUSHED BACK HIM!!! After the Hulk had absorbed more radiation making him more powerful than before, Hulk can't keep the fight and he was pushed back!. Jugg pushed ahead, hulk let go him by his own inertia force while jugg was distracted by Xavier who can remind him guilty for destroying mansion! Jugg just went to go uncontrollably running around a lake on the mansion's back door! Hulk had no way of stopping him and he was seeing like a coward! Prove Nº2 In Hulk # 402 Juggernaut beat the hulk in pure physical STRENGTH FORCE!!! Prove Nº 3 The master of Fears and Powerfull Demon called D'Spayre's removal of the flesh from Juggernaut's body, having been stripped of all of his flesh by a mystic blast, The Juggernaut still stood before his enemy to complete the battle as merely a skeleton. Continuing to move and talk without muscles or any physical organs, he said him:
The Juggernaut-"But I been feelin' despair my whole life. And I learned how to deal with it. I got mad!"
D'Spayre-"He still stands? He moves?"
The Juggernaut-"'Cause life is pain. Pain leads to despair. An' the only way to beat despair is through rage. And rage feeds The Juggernaut. Once The Juggernaut feels rage...nothing...of this or any world... NOTHING CAN STOP THE JUGGERNAUT!"
The rage can be make more Juggernaut physical and invulnerability strongestthan Hulk!! For this reason Juggernaut display equal or more physical power than the HULK!!
Juggernaut cannot be stopped,pushed,lifted etc while moving forward. Are you sure he can't be 'pushed' (accelerated) in the direction he's already moving? I did not know he could not be lifted. That's informative.
It's not impossible to figure out who is stronger between Juggernaut and Hulk.Hulk and Sentry have bot been declared by Marvel to have unlimited strength..however you can clearly see based on what has been shown in comics that Sentry is clearly stronger than regular Savage Hulk but not stronger than other incarnations..such as The Green Scar Hulk from the Planet\World War Hulk series. The nature between the Hulk, Sentry and the Juggernaut's strength are too diverse to do a consistent or meaningful comparison. Excuse me if I disregard this statement. I understand what your trying to convey here (the power of illustration as opposed to abstraction), but this is a serious apples vs oranges argument (muscle vs psychic compared to muscle vs magic), and I like grapes.
Hulk's doesn't have a base strength anymore...you're talking about in like the 90's.His strength is immeasurable whether he's pissed or relaxed now.Hulk's feats of strength even against Juggernaut are greater than what Juggernaut has been shown to do.In most of their bouts,no matter what version of Hulk it was,Hulk more times than not at all seems to show Juggernaut what's what.Other times they've been shown to be equals. There is a ring of truth to what you write, although a lot of it comes off as opinion. I will say in most fights the Hulk does seem to possess an unparalleled level of vigor. Not having a base level is also new to me, but I'm sure it is more recent then the 90's. I remember reading stuff where a base was still given only a few years ago, regardless I guess I need to do some homework. Has Marvel done away with that adage, "the madder Hulk gets, the stronger Hulk gets"?
Juggernaut's invulnerability in forward motion is not his strength..it's a magical effect.Invulnerability isn't strength to begin with..it's durability. Excuse me if I misapplied that phrase you coined, I guessed you were talking about the same thing I was in my thesis. I concluded that forward motion was the dynamics (cause) of strength -- or the measurement of physical work one person can perform. If this is correct then the same power that governs the Juggernaut's irresistible motion, should also govern what we readily perceive as his strength once his limbs or other appendages are independently engaged in forward motion. For example, character X would never stand a chance at beating the Juggernaut in an arm wrestling match once the Juggernaut arm started to advance he is guaranteed to win.
I haven't seen Juggernaut do much of anything strength wise.You never see him fail at lifting something...almost nobody does that in comics but from what I have seen of Juggernaut's actual lifting feats...he has not shown to be able to lift anything anywhere near what Hulk has. Thus my point, how can we come to a definite conclusion based off FEATS he has never attempted. My baby brother (17 yrs old now) is capable of lifting well in excess of 200 lbs. I personally stop weight lifting at the age of 14 (I started at that age to) and have never lifted more than 168 lbs. I do not lift weight now, but the other day I challenged my brothers to an arm wrestling match. I beat my younger brother and stalemated baby brother. Who is strongest?
"
"
Juggernaut an be pushed forward in the direction he's already going while he's moving forward but he can't be pushed backward.
You can lift the Juggernaut..so long as he's not running toward you.
The point I was making with Sentry is..he doesn't have a set limit of strength but we know he's stronger than Savage Hulk because he's proven that with feats.He has lifting,pulling,breaking,and dragging feats of strength that are comparable to that of Hulk at his best.Juggernaut has had trouble beating Savage Hulk and has even had fights where Savage Hulk has gotten the better of him and has almost no lifting,pulling,breaking,and dragging feats that are comparable to what Hulk has done.
No..Hulk's base level is a 90's thing..maybe even further back than that.Hulk doesn't have to be mad to lift over 100 tons.I don't know what you read a few years ago where he had a base because Leader deemed a relaxed Hulk's strength incalculable when I was a child and I'm 22.The whole "madder he gets,the stronger he gets thing" has not gone away but he seems to be more in control of himself these days while still maintaining a high level of strength.In fact I believe the current Savage Hulk is more powerful than any Savage Hulk there has been before.
Juggernaut's invulnerability in forward motion is a magical effect.It's one of his powers.It's like how Thor's Hammer isn't actually heavy but nobody but him can lift it.
Comparing yourself and your brother to Juggernaut is ridiculous.Comic feats have nothing to do with real life and aren't relatable.Feats are the only way we know any character can do anything.I know that Thor,Hercules,Colossus,Namor,Wonder Man,Namor,Ms.Marvel,and She-Hulk are weaker than Hulk.You know why? Because after years of being in comics...they don't have any feats that are on the same exact level or above that of what Hulk has done.If Marvel keeps showing these people doing feats at a weaker level than Hulk..then we are to assume they can't do anything better.
Juggernaut WON THE TEST OF STRENGTH IN WWHULK!!! HE PUSHED BACK HIM!!! After the Hulk had absorbed more radiation making him more powerful than before, Hulk can't keep the fight and he was pushed back!. Jugg pushed ahead, hulk let go him by his own inertia force while jugg was distracted by Xavier who can remind him guilty for destroying mansion! Jugg just went to go uncontrollably running around a lake on the mansion's back door! Hulk had no way of stopping him and he was seeing like a coward! Prove Nº2 In Hulk # 402 Juggernaut beat the hulk in pure physical STRENGTH FORCE!!! Prove Nº 3 The master of Fears and Powerfull Demon called D'Spayre's removal of the flesh from Juggernaut's body, having been stripped of all of his flesh by a mystic blast, The Juggernaut still stood before his enemy to complete the battle as merely a skeleton. Continuing to move and talk without muscles or any physical organs, he said him:
The Juggernaut-"But I been feelin' despair my whole life. And I learned how to deal with it. I got mad!"
D'Spayre-"He still stands? He moves?"
The Juggernaut-"'Cause life is pain. Pain leads to despair. An' the only way to beat despair is through rage. And rage feeds The Juggernaut. Once The Juggernaut feels rage...nothing...of this or any world... NOTHING CAN STOP THE JUGGERNAUT!"
The rage can be make more Juggernaut physical and invulnerability strongestthan Hulk!! For this reason Juggernaut display equal or more physical power than the HULK!!
"
Holy cow, what do you say to that? This guy is serious, he's taking names and whooping *censored*. The Juggernaut does have some pretty impressive feats beneath his belt. being flayed down to a skeleton and still fighting... Now that's impressive. The Hulk has similar feats: having his flesh flash fried off only to regenerate moments later. If only this was a contest of durability, I think the Juggernaut would have robbed tittle.
Juggernaut WON THE TEST OF STRENGTH IN WWHULK!!! HE PUSHED BACK HIM!!! After the Hulk had absorbed more radiation making him more powerful than before, Hulk can't keep the fight and he was pushed back!. Jugg pushed ahead, hulk let go him by his own inertia force while jugg was distracted by Xavier who can remind him guilty for destroying mansion! Jugg just went to go uncontrollably running around a lake on the mansion's back door! Hulk had no way of stopping him and he was seeing like a coward! Prove Nº2 In Hulk # 402 Juggernaut beat the hulk in pure physical STRENGTH FORCE!!! Prove Nº 3 The master of Fears and Powerfull Demon called D'Spayre's removal of the flesh from Juggernaut's body, having been stripped of all of his flesh by a mystic blast, The Juggernaut still stood before his enemy to complete the battle as merely a skeleton. Continuing to move and talk without muscles or any physical organs, he said him:
The Juggernaut-"But I been feelin' despair my whole life. And I learned how to deal with it. I got mad!"
D'Spayre-"He still stands? He moves?"
The Juggernaut-"'Cause life is pain. Pain leads to despair. An' the only way to beat despair is through rage. And rage feeds The Juggernaut. Once The Juggernaut feels rage...nothing...of this or any world... NOTHING CAN STOP THE JUGGERNAUT!"
The rage can be make more Juggernaut physical and invulnerability strongestthan Hulk!! For this reason Juggernaut display equal or more physical power than the HULK!!
"
Juggernaut didn't win anything.He was in forward motion.It's a magical effect.Hulk didn't even want to bother with Juggernaut.As you can see before Juggernaut accepted Cyttorak again..Hulk was already beating him into the dirt.How is Hulk a coward for not wanting to continue to pound on Juggernaut? He destroyed the X-men and broke Colossus's arms.
Iron Man beat the Hulk with pure physical strength as well.It doesn't prove anything.You're bringing up an old ass comic.
Juggernaut's healing factor isn't proof that he's more powerful than Hulk....
This post is a FAIL.
kenshiroo said:
"What kind of meaning is the Juggernaut's forward motion?
Man, is pure physical STRENGTH!!! and he began his foward motion from zero!! How can push ahead the Hulk from zero position?? PURE PHYSICAL STRENGHT!!
Juggernaut is unstoppable while moving forward by magical effect.Not even some gods can stop him.It's not because he's stronger than them though.
He's not pure physical anything.Everything he can do comes from Cyttorak.
Juggernaut WON THE TEST OF STRENGTH IN WWHULK!!! HE PUSHED BACK HIM!!! After the Hulk had absorbed more radiation making him more powerful than before, Hulk can't keep the fight and he was pushed back!. Jugg pushed ahead, hulk let go him by his own inertia force while jugg was distracted by Xavier who can remind him guilty for destroying mansion! Jugg just went to go uncontrollably running around a lake on the mansion's back door! Hulk had no way of stopping him and he was seeing like a coward! Prove Nº2 In Hulk # 402 Juggernaut beat the hulk in pure physical STRENGTH FORCE!!! Prove Nº 3 The master of Fears and Powerfull Demon called D'Spayre's removal of the flesh from Juggernaut's body, having been stripped of all of his flesh by a mystic blast, The Juggernaut still stood before his enemy to complete the battle as merely a skeleton. Continuing to move and talk without muscles or any physical organs, he said him:
The Juggernaut-"But I been feelin' despair my whole life. And I learned how to deal with it. I got mad!"
D'Spayre-"He still stands? He moves?"
The Juggernaut-"'Cause life is pain. Pain leads to despair. An' the only way to beat despair is through rage. And rage feeds The Juggernaut. Once The Juggernaut feels rage...nothing...of this or any world... NOTHING CAN STOP THE JUGGERNAUT!"
The rage can be make more Juggernaut physical and invulnerability strongestthan Hulk!! For this reason Juggernaut display equal or more physical power than the HULK!!
"
Juggernaut didn't win anything.He was in forward motion.It's a magical effect.Hulk didn't even want to bother with Juggernaut.As you can see before Juggernaut accepted Cyttorak again..Hulk was already beating him into the dirt.How is Hulk a coward for not wanting to continue to pound on Juggernaut? He destroyed the X-men and broke Colossus's arms.
Iron Man beat the Hulk with pure physical strength as well.It doesn't prove anything.You're bringing up an old ass comic.
Juggernaut's healing factor isn't proof that he's more powerful than Hulk....
This post is a FAIL.
kenshiroo said:
"What kind of meaning is the Juggernaut's forward motion?
Man, is pure physical STRENGTH!!! and he began his foward motion from zero!! How can push ahead the Hulk from zero position?? PURE PHYSICAL STRENGHT!!
Juggernaut is unstoppable while moving forward by magical effect.Not even some gods can stop him.It's not because he's stronger than them though.
He's not pure physical anything.Everything he can do comes from Cyttorak.
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