I think that if Jason wasn't looking out for Scarlett he wouldn't have gotten beat by Flamingo. Same for Dick. Had Dick not been more worried about Damian then Dick could have beat him too.

"I think that if Jason wasn't looking out for Scarlett he wouldn't have gotten beat by Flamingo. Same for Dick. Had Dick not been more worried about Damian then Dick could have beat him too. "

" @daredevil21134:  I agree with you on that one bro. And if he is still alive then lets have another showdown. One to see who the better one is for real this time. "

Getting shot in the head from afar twice tends to take you off your A game. 
 
You ever wonder why no one shoots  Batman in the head? It'd take him off his A game. 
 
We can't have that, can we?

 
@viin

" i say let jason todd somehow be the next joker "

Everything is explained in that last panel, the "dirty, twisted, cruel, and ugly dungheap world" he is referring to isnt the DC universe." 
It's ours, Jason is nearing meta-awareness because of all the ridiculous things he has been through since his creation. 

He was the Dick Grayson clone, "He wanted me to be you"
Fans didn't like that, so he was retconned in the first Crisis, changing his hair to black, and altering the origin story from another circus performer to a street hoodlum with an attitude. 
The opposite of Dick. 
Fans didn't like that, so he was killed off in "A Death in the Family"
 
He was "brought back" in Hush to mess with Batman's head, idea springs up of "hey he was the badass Robin, lets make him the Badass Anti-Hero in the Bat Family since Azrael is dead"
Retconned into existence by the Superboy Prime Punch, becomes a Anti-Hero that puts Batman into some awkward situations. Fans rage over his actual resurrection. 
 
Goes back and forth as an Anti-Villain for a while, gets involved with the disaster that is Countdown. No one likes that. Following Bruce's departure elevated to full villain status. Fans complain about that. 
 
Grant Morrison tells us of all of this in Batman & Robin, he wasn't messing up his character, he was taking it in the next step that it is going in, and it probably will never stop.
 
Jason wants to be good, he wants to be liked. But its too late, its far too late, and we are the reason. All the character changes he has gone through the years, it's because of us. DC has this character that they want to use, but don't know how, as the fan base will argue over him until he is gone.
 
Morrison wants to create a living breathing DC universe that is conscious and self aware. He already has, but you just don't know it yet.

" @RedHoodsDen:  Hahahahahaha, "Get the hell out of my cave?" You mean "our" cave. "

" @Dr. Maxwell:  I agree with you on some things here bro. Like the fans being the reason why he is constantly changing in different directions. But I'm gonna have to say that you are so wrong when it come to Morrison and his creating a living, breathing, DC Universe. Cuz I strongly believe that he has kinda f'd up the Batman universe with his batman inc crap. And the way he made Jason act and look. "

" @Dr. Maxwell:  I agree with you on some things here bro. Like the fans being the reason why he is constantly changing in different directions. But I'm gonna have to say that you are so wrong when it come to Morrison and his creating a living, breathing, DC Universe. Cuz I strongly believe that he has kinda f'd up the Batman universe with his batman inc crap. And the way he made Jason act and look. "

You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. I just don't think that the world is big enough to fit Bruce's ego or should I say Batman's ego. I think its dumb that there needs to be a Batman in every part of the world. We get it Batman is Morrison's favorite character but that doesn't mean that the entire world needs a damn Batman.

"You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. I just don't think that the world is big enough to fit Bruce's ego or should I say Batman's ego. I think its dumb that there needs to be a Batman in every part of the world. We get it Batman is Morrison's favorite character but that doesn't mean that the entire world needs a damn Batman. "

personally I think the thencept of fighting the Idea of Evil with the Idea of Batman is a great story idea, considering that Batman shot the Embodiment of all Evil with a gun. 

@entropy_aegis:  Yeah I can't wait either, already have a few ideas bouncing around in my head.
 
Frankly it's nice seeing surreal Batman, you can only do a realistic grim Batman for so long before it gets kind of boring.

" Everything is explained in that last panel, the "dirty, twisted, cruel, and ugly dungheap world" he is referring to isnt the DC universe."  It's ours, Jason is nearing meta-awareness because of all the ridiculous things he has been through since his creation.  He was the Dick Grayson clone, "He wanted me to be you" Fans didn't like that, so he was retconned in the first Crisis, changing his hair to black, and altering the origin story from another circus performer to a street hoodlum with an attitude.  The opposite of Dick.  Fans didn't like that, so he was killed off in "A Death in the Family" He was "brought back" in Hush to mess with Batman's head, idea springs up of "hey he was the badass Robin, lets make him the Badass Anti-Hero in the Bat Family since Azrael is dead" Retconned into existence by the Superboy Prime Punch, becomes a Anti-Hero that puts Batman into some awkward situations. Fans rage over his actual resurrection.   Goes back and forth as an Anti-Villain for a while, gets involved with the disaster that is Countdown. No one likes that. Following Bruce's departure elevated to full villain status. Fans complain about that.   Grant Morrison tells us of all of this in Batman & Robin, he wasn't messing up his character, he was taking it in the next step that it is going in, and it probably will never stop. Jason wants to be good, he wants to be liked. But its too late, its far too late, and we are the reason. All the character changes he has gone through the years, it's because of us. DC has this character that they want to use, but don't know how, as the fan base will argue over him until he is gone.  Morrison wants to create a living breathing DC universe that is conscious and self aware. He already has, but you just don't know it yet. "

" Everything is explained in that last panel, the "dirty, twisted, cruel, and ugly dungheap world" he is referring to isnt the DC universe."  It's ours, Jason is nearing meta-awareness because of all the ridiculous things he has been through since his creation.  He was the Dick Grayson clone, "He wanted me to be you" Fans didn't like that, so he was retconned in the first Crisis, changing his hair to black, and altering the origin story from another circus performer to a street hoodlum with an attitude.  The opposite of Dick.  Fans didn't like that, so he was killed off in "A Death in the Family" He was "brought back" in Hush to mess with Batman's head, idea springs up of "hey he was the badass Robin, lets make him the Badass Anti-Hero in the Bat Family since Azrael is dead" Retconned into existence by the Superboy Prime Punch, becomes a Anti-Hero that puts Batman into some awkward situations. Fans rage over his actual resurrection.   Goes back and forth as an Anti-Villain for a while, gets involved with the disaster that is Countdown. No one likes that. Following Bruce's departure elevated to full villain status. Fans complain about that.   Grant Morrison tells us of all of this in Batman & Robin, he wasn't messing up his character, he was taking it in the next step that it is going in, and it probably will never stop. Jason wants to be good, he wants to be liked. But its too late, its far too late, and we are the reason. All the character changes he has gone through the years, it's because of us. DC has this character that they want to use, but don't know how, as the fan base will argue over him until he is gone.  Morrison wants to create a living breathing DC universe that is conscious and self aware. He already has, but you just don't know it yet. "

Oh the thing about the forums was about Grant. I hope you didn't take that as directed at you. I wouldn't say Jason broke the fourth wall so much as skirted against it. Some of it felt rather forced to me, the phone poll to activate the webcam felt like a reference for reference's sake [let's be honest, Jason would've used an internet poll,lol].  
 
Countdown's a sore subject for me. Not because he didn't become Red Robin but rather because I read 52 issues of that book so that DC could have him take his ball and go home. You don't invest people's time and interest in something you have no intention of having a payoff on. Battle for the Cowl rather disgusts me, not because of the fact it feels like forcing him into the supervillain path Grant put him on, but because they tried to shoehorn in the typical abused child psychotic supervillain past. It demeans everything about Todd. "Oh it's not his death and the injustice of being unavenged that has him so pissed off, it's the hobos that had a go at him behind the dumpster when he was 8". Or the notion he was always a psychotic with delusions of grandeur replacing Bruce. If you demean his service as Robin, you demean Robin. It's why we're not meant to know the truth of "The Diplomat's Son" arc, because the answer would damage the mantle of Robin on some level.  
 
They simply don't think with this character, and I reject that. I reject the notion true evil or true madness is right for this character because it's wrong for Robin, and wrong for Batman. If Bruce's message was truly broadcast, truly recieved, and yet forsaken. Willfully, sanely because of how gravely he was wronged, and because of how others have been wronged out there and that has the son pitted against the father, that is tragedy.  
 
Anything else is just trying to be clever.

"You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. I just don't think that the world is big enough to fit Bruce's ego or should I say Batman's ego. I think its dumb that there needs to be a Batman in every part of the world. We get it Batman is Morrison's favorite character but that doesn't mean that the entire world needs a damn Batman. "

"@RedHoodJT said:

"You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. I just don't think that the world is big enough to fit Bruce's ego or should I say Batman's ego. I think its dumb that there needs to be a Batman in every part of the world. We get it Batman is Morrison's favorite character but that doesn't mean that the entire world needs a damn Batman. "

Ofcourse it does.darkseid ring a bell.and if leviathan turns out to be libra then i'm gonna have huge blast. either way these crimefighters were operating well before bruce,the outsiders was already around too. it's a logical progression,INC is to show that crimefighters dont just exist in the US.it has nothing to do with ego.theres a huge threat and he's working to prevent it. "

" @entropy_aegis said:

"@RedHoodJT said:

"You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. I just don't think that the world is big enough to fit Bruce's ego or should I say Batman's ego. I think its dumb that there needs to be a Batman in every part of the world. We get it Batman is Morrison's favorite character but that doesn't mean that the entire world needs a damn Batman. "

Ofcourse it does.darkseid ring a bell.and if leviathan turns out to be libra then i'm gonna have huge blast. either way these crimefighters were operating well before bruce,the outsiders was already around too. it's a logical progression,INC is to show that crimefighters dont just exist in the US.it has nothing to do with ego.theres a huge threat and he's working to prevent it. "

I think Inc is gonna blow up in Bruce's face somehow "

" @daredevil21134 said:

" @entropy_aegis said:

"@RedHoodJT said:

"You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. I just don't think that the world is big enough to fit Bruce's ego or should I say Batman's ego. I think its dumb that there needs to be a Batman in every part of the world. We get it Batman is Morrison's favorite character but that doesn't mean that the entire world needs a damn Batman. "

Ofcourse it does.darkseid ring a bell.and if leviathan turns out to be libra then i'm gonna have huge blast. either way these crimefighters were operating well before bruce,the outsiders was already around too. it's a logical progression,INC is to show that crimefighters dont just exist in the US.it has nothing to do with ego.theres a huge threat and he's working to prevent it. "

I think Inc is gonna blow up in Bruce's face somehow "

I think it has to. I think the return of the old status quo will come from the decimation of Inc. Being a world police usually goes badly. "

" @entropy_aegis:  I see what you're saying but if you know who Knight and Squire are then you know that heroes exist outside of the US. You don't need Batman to go to France or Istanbul or wherever he's gone and find that person and have him become a Batman for that place of existence. If it was really about making it look like other heroes exist outside of the US why not just create their own book for them and write them that way? "

Wow really? Knight and Squire were inspired by Batman and Robin I did not know that. I mean they only look exactly like them. And Grant Morrison brought them back? Holy crap I didn't know that. Thanks for clarifying all that for me there Sherlock. I knew all that already. I don't really care what Morrison does. In my opinion he's a hack. 
 
No I don't expect DC to give these no name characters from Morrison a book. Already established guys? Really because up until now I've never even heard of these guys. Never even mentioned them. Morrison has some good books but not all of them are good. Inc is one of them. I don't like it. It didn't catch and reel me in like say All Star Superman or the first few issues of BnR. And to be honest Jason is gonna get his own book. Too many people want it to happen for DC to not do it. It would be foolish to not give Jason his own book. But allow this mockery of Batman with Inc to proceed.

"Wow really? Knight and Squire were inspired by Batman and Robin I did not know that. I mean they only look exactly like them. And Grant Morrison brought them back? Holy crap I didn't know that. Thanks for clarifying all that for me there Sherlock. I knew all that already. I don't really care what Morrison does. In my opinion he's a hack. 
 
No I don't expect DC to give these no name characters from Morrison a book. Already established guys? Really because up until now I've never even heard of these guys. Never even mentioned them. Morrison has some good books but not all of them are good. Inc is one of them. I don't like it. It didn't catch and reel me in like say All Star Superman or the first few issues of BnR. And to be honest Jason is gonna get his own book. Too many people want it to happen for DC to not do it. It would be foolish to not give Jason his own book. But allow this mockery of Batman with Inc to proceed. "

" @entropy_aegis:  My dislike for Inc has nothing to do with Jason. I think that Bruce should have died and came back as the Spectre. The spirit of Vengeance not Redemption like Hal. I mean think about it. Bruce would make a damn good Spectre. Enough of this I'm gonna travel here and I'm gonna travel there to train people to fight the good fight. If they were already there before Bruce showed up and they were doing fine before he got there then why the hell does he need to be there. Its redundant in my opinion. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Inc is messing with what isn't broken and trying to fix it. That is why I don't like Inc. I've realized that Jason doesn't need to be a part of this travesty. And I'm glad he's not. "

"@RedHoodJT said:

" @entropy_aegis:  My dislike for Inc has nothing to do with Jason. I think that Bruce should have died and came back as the Spectre. The spirit of Vengeance not Redemption like Hal. I mean think about it. Bruce would make a damn good Spectre. Enough of this I'm gonna travel here and I'm gonna travel there to train people to fight the good fight. If they were already there before Bruce showed up and they were doing fine before he got there then why the hell does he need to be there. Its redundant in my opinion. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Inc is messing with what isn't broken and trying to fix it. That is why I don't like Inc. I've realized that Jason doesn't need to be a part of this travesty. And I'm glad he's not. "

Bruce becoming spectre is the true case of fixing what's not broken. he's asking those guys to join him to face a threat for pure story telling purposes. whats redundant is actually having guys like batman,nightwing,jason in a world where doctor fate could end all misery by clicking his fingers. you're free to dislike INC but it's better by far than those same old mediocre crime stories,and we fans constantly complain about never lasting deaths,repetetiveness etc,but when guys like morrison come and try to change all that we still complain. even now many people are pleased that rogers will replace barnes,and then they wonder why marvel does'nt keep it's characters dead.  "

" honestly who cares.  Jason Todd is just a cliche.  We can only hope he eventually disappears entirely. "

" @norusdog said:

" honestly who cares.  Jason Todd is just a cliche.  We can only hope he eventually disappears entirely. "

Why would you say that. He's one of the best things to happen to the Batman's over done story lines in a long time. If you dont agree with that you have to agree that he's gone through more character and story growth than any batman character in a long time. "

Nice 2 see him back as "Red Hood" ... gives great fight 2 CURRENT batman & robin ...