Do you guys think the 90s event Avengers:Crossing screwed ironman

Avatar image for leegar88
#1 Posted by Leegar88 (113 posts) - - Show Bio

I mean it was the end of his volume one series(lots of volume ones were ending because of onslaught) and they sprang this crap that he was being mind controlled for years(though they reconnected it to a few months). It made the whole first series end on a sour note with the original ironman dieing and being replaced by teen tony. Last but not least he loses his company. The whole thing wraps up with the ironman we a loved looking like a serial killer, degenerate, traitor, who was easily controlled. Not to mention ironman in Vol 2(Heroes reborn) did not look any better. Volume 3 made things look better. I wonder why ironman is always chosen to be the villian in big events but never as the leading hero.

Avatar image for emptytomb
#2 Posted by emptytomb (421 posts) - - Show Bio

yeah I agree. Most of the time he was outcasted or put aside by the avengers until he was replaced by the younger tony.
Avatar image for tobiaspunk
#3 Posted by tobiasPUNK (144 posts) - - Show Bio

if you think about it tony has a massive weak spot...his ego. he is obsessed with material possessions and his wealth...i guess they found it easy to pin him as a bad guy and kill him off when he was in the way...in my opinion though i think it's bullshit, iron man is one of the best marvel characters of all time, i don't know why they would do that to one of their best. 

Avatar image for danhimself
#4 Posted by danhimself (21430 posts) - - Show Bio

I like when they tear characters down...why would you want to read about characters who constantly have perfect lives and never have any problems....I also like to see characters climb back up after being tore down

Avatar image for leegar88
#5 Posted by Leegar88 (113 posts) - - Show Bio

I hear what you are saying, but charachters like spiderman, captain america, reed richards, and wolverine always come out with their shit smelling clean. While Ironman, daredevil, the hulk, and punisher are fair game. Its been a while since i've read a story and thought hey they are making cap look like an asshole. Tony stark all the time, but his flaws make him appealing. Sadly they make his series less appealing, like switching main charachters..

Avatar image for avenging_x_bolt
#6 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (16606 posts) - - Show Bio
@Leegar88:
uuuuuum ok first of all eeew and second of all when havnt any of those characters youve listed been torn down. 
 
cap looked as bad as tony did in Civil War , just to different people. 
Wolverine always looks messed up, we just dont reall y notice it anymore, ok Spidey  not so much 
Mr. Fantastic    isnt portrayed lke that nearly as much as he should be. 
 
and anyway Iron Man was created to look like an asshole.
Avatar image for leegar88
#7 Posted by Leegar88 (113 posts) - - Show Bio
@Avenging-X-Bolt: 
I am nott just talking about civil war, and civil war did not make cap look as bad as ironman. Ironman was forced to make more drastic descisions and while cap had the goodd luck of being dead, ironman was forced in charge during the secret invasion.
Wolverine just has a badass attitude, and writers play on his violent past. Don't get me wrong he makes tough choices, but they never sacrifice his integrity. Wolverine is highly respected, doesn't let his demns get in the way, and has a central good guy roll in almost every story. Going back to civil war, he was the one smart enough to go after the people who caused the stamford massacre.
Reed richards is still a highly respected hero even after he locked up his fellow heroes in the negative zone, and built the thor clone. Not to mention he found that billions would die without the presence of the act.
Avatar image for leegar88
#8 Posted by Leegar88 (113 posts) - - Show Bio

Also he wasn't created to be an asshole(assholes don't become superheroes, except deadpool), on the contrary I have read he was created as the type of charachter who people would initially find unappealing and then love to root for. You guys need to read more volume one ironman and his early stories. Tony Stark is far from an asshole.

Avatar image for theodore
#9 Posted by Theodore (3607 posts) - - Show Bio
@Leegar88 said:
" @Avenging-X-Bolt:  I am nott just talking about civil war, and civil war did not make cap look as bad as ironman. Ironman was forced to make more drastic descisions and while cap had the goodd luck of being dead, ironman was forced in charge during the secret invasion. Wolverine just has a badass attitude, and writers play on his violent past. Don't get me wrong he makes tough choices, but they never sacrifice his integrity. Wolverine is highly respected, doesn't let his demns get in the way, and has a central good guy roll in almost every story. Going back to civil war, he was the one smart enough to go after the people who caused the stamford massacre. Reed richards is still a highly respected hero even after he locked up his fellow heroes in the negative zone, and built the thor clone. Not to mention he found that billions would die without the presence of the act. "
I know, how come everyone just forgot about that...
Avatar image for leegar88
#10 Posted by Leegar88 (113 posts) - - Show Bio
@Theodore: Probably because he is not known wor working independetly. Reed is always part of a group, and his actions good or bad are distributed amongst others.
Avatar image for avenging_x_bolt
#11 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (16606 posts) - - Show Bio
@Leegar88:
i never said just civil war i was using it as an example. secondly i hear people talking about how cap was "being stupid, and overly irrational" all the time. 
as for Woverine, i didnt read secret invasion so i cant comment on that. and once again i said iron man was created to LOOK like an asshole. looking like an asshole and being an asshole are 2 completely different things and as for the "assholes dont become superheroes bit" . completely untrue Guy Gardner,Punisher,Eric O'grady
Avatar image for leegar88
#12 Posted by Leegar88 (113 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, but cap is not frequently reminded of how irrational he was. No one tries to make cap feel like he owes them an apology. The wolverine bit was from civil war, I don't know what he did during secret invasion.  Also I said there were exceptions when it came to the asshole being superheroes part(deadpools an asshole). Also the heroes you listed are subjective of what you think an asshole is. Guy Gardner is a hothead and comicrelief but a descent guy, punisher is just socially inept imo, but you hit the nail on the head with Eric O'grady.
 Going back to ironman, I don't really see how he makes himself look like an asshole...can you clarify.

Avatar image for avenging_x_bolt
#13 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (16606 posts) - - Show Bio

@Leegar88:
Iron Man: really after all the civil war stuff that we were just talking about? Iron Man constantly has to make rally hard choices that piss people off such as proposing to jet hulk into space, heading the pro-reg movement, making a lot of people think he's dead wich is why he looks like an asshole to most people but he is just doing what he thinks is right. 
  second of all just because guy has some goodness in him dosnt mean hes not an asshole or at least he was an asshole (hes grown up a lot since the 80's)   and punisher's     social ineptitude is one of the things that contributed to his assholeness lol i know thats not a word
 

Avatar image for leegar88
#14 Edited by Leegar88 (113 posts) - - Show Bio

It is hard to argue what makes someone an asshole. But doing what you feel is the right course of action no matter how many people think your wrong is not being an asshole, it is being human. People call him an asshole because of his rashness during armor wars, but that was him stopping criminal from using leaked technology he developed to commie crime. He took it amongst himself(due to a guilt complex probably) to bring them down. An asshole would not have bothered to stop them, an asshole would have let other heroes/cops/.ictims deal with criminals using his stolen tech.  Some people call him an asshole because during civil war he believed that some people could not handle their own power, but they forget he made Rhodey ironman for a time when he felt he could not handle being ironman. An asshole would have stubbornly held on to his armor no matter how bad his life was going. Even during the early stories tony was not an asshole, when happy hit an employee for insulting tony, Stark threatened to fire him. An asshole would have given Happy a raise. When the soviet union fell(with help from ironman) stark did his best to help Russia pick up the pieces, an asshole(captain america) would have blown that shit up or made it a carbon copy of the U.S. 
 
Also in defense of the punisher, the guy was a career soldier who has seen the worst all over the world and comes home to have his  family killed in central park. Of course he is lacking in the way of social skills, he lost his social life.  He doesn't bother with the distractions of other heroes in his area spiderman, fantastic four, daredevil, etc he is more down to earth. You can not call him an asshole for wanting to eliminate the threats small enough to slip past the big heroes fingers. I admit he is addicted to killing, but he picks his targets well. If he was an asshole, he would target his enemies wives and kids(like they did him) and would not bother with innocents. The punisher imo is the most realistic marvel charachter imo.

Avatar image for avenging_x_bolt
#15 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (16606 posts) - - Show Bio
@Leegar88:
really dosnt make punsher any less of an asshole it just gives him an excuse  
 
annd i dont know if you're completley misreading me or if im just completely misreading you (if i am im horribly sorry) im not actually saying Iron  MAn is an asshole im saying that a huge part of his character is that he is percived as an asshole by many other characters in the marvel universe.
Avatar image for avenging_x_bolt
#16 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (16606 posts) - - Show Bio
@Leegar88:
i do agree with you on him being the most realistic marvel character wich scares the holy shit out of me 
 
Avatar image for batmanary
#17 Posted by batmanary (817 posts) - - Show Bio
@Leegar88 said:
" I mean it was the end of his volume one series(lots of volume ones were ending because of onslaught) and they sprang this crap that he was being mind controlled for years(though they reconnected it to a few months). It made the whole first series end on a sour note with the original ironman dieing and being replaced by teen tony. Last but not least he loses his company. The whole thing wraps up with the ironman we a loved looking like a serial killer, degenerate, traitor, who was easily controlled. Not to mention ironman in Vol 2(Heroes reborn) did not look any better. Volume 3 made things look better. I wonder why ironman is always chosen to be the villian in big events but never as the leading hero. "
Wait... so the present Tony isn't the original?
Avatar image for princeimc
#18 Posted by PrinceIMC (5506 posts) - - Show Bio
@batmanary: Actually the Tony that came back from the Heroes Reborn universe is an amalgam of Teen Tony, 616 Tony and Heroes Reborn Tony.

See at least they all forgot about it eventually. And yet the things that are most known about Hank Pym are that he build Ultron and he hit Janet. 
 
Avatar image for batmanary
#19 Posted by batmanary (817 posts) - - Show Bio
@PrinceIMC said:
" @batmanary: Actually the Tony that came back from the Heroes Reborn universe is an amalgam of Teen Tony, 616 Tony and Heroes Reborn Tony.See at least they all forgot about it eventually. And yet the things that are most known about Hank Pym are that he build Ultron and he hit Janet.   "
So actual Tony's waiting for some stupid reincarnation, oooh I wasn't responsible for all this, it was my hormonal clone!!!!!!!!!!!
Avatar image for leegar88
#20 Posted by Leegar88 (113 posts) - - Show Bio
@batmanary:  They all became combined when Vol 3 started and tony remebers it all. He even had himself put on trial for the things he did in the crossing, and his fellow avengers found him not guilty. Once again he owned up to his mistakes.

This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.