Johnny Storm To Be Played By a Black Actor?

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#151 Posted by Derfel (249 posts) - - Show Bio

@toxicant said:

Okay, sarcasm got a little out of control there. In all seriousness, there are zero reasons to care about this unless you were really dying to see somebody else in the role. Do I think Hollywood should deliberately try to pull race-changes on established characters? No, that's silly. But there's no sign that this casting would be based on that line of thinking. If a character isn't strongly tied to a certain ethnicity (Black Panther or Doom for example), then the character's ethnicity shouldn't be a big deal in casting. If later down the road we find out that they were definitely looking at this guy because they wanted a black Human Torch, then feel free to be angry. But until then, how about we give everyone involved the benefit of the doubt and assume they're looking at this guy because they think he's a good actor for the role.

I agree with this.

My gut reaction was that I didn't like it because it is racist to change character's from one race to another. But the more I thought about it, the more I began to realize that this "mindset" may be the one that is truly racist. A white guy playing a white guy, or a black guy playing a black guy, we are way too focused on race. Race should not matter as much as it does, but unfortunately this simply isn't the case. Hopefully humans can reach a point where anyone can play anyone, and everyone is comfortable with it.

It is actually not about ethnicity, it's about watching chars you love being transformed in something that is totally different from whom you have been familiar with for years, I mean I would hate just as much to see storm transformed in a black guy, or Tyron Lannister transformed in a tall guy, or batman transformed in "the cyber-bat", you want to make a movie with chars of every ethnicity and every minority and with a good, original story? great, be sure I'm gonna watch it and enjoy it, just don't transform the characters I love in something completely different and unjustified.

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#152 Posted by M3th (2106 posts) - - Show Bio

You know what would be funny? If in the story You see Michael B. Jordan play as Trevor Harris the man who replaces Johnny Storm in the space mission last minute, making Trevor Harris *this* universes Human Torch.

Would that make everyone happy?

Why doesn't anyone complain about Corporal Summers?

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#153 Posted by novi_homines (1468 posts) - - Show Bio

@derfel said:

@novi_homines said:

@toxicant said:

Okay, sarcasm got a little out of control there. In all seriousness, there are zero reasons to care about this unless you were really dying to see somebody else in the role. Do I think Hollywood should deliberately try to pull race-changes on established characters? No, that's silly. But there's no sign that this casting would be based on that line of thinking. If a character isn't strongly tied to a certain ethnicity (Black Panther or Doom for example), then the character's ethnicity shouldn't be a big deal in casting. If later down the road we find out that they were definitely looking at this guy because they wanted a black Human Torch, then feel free to be angry. But until then, how about we give everyone involved the benefit of the doubt and assume they're looking at this guy because they think he's a good actor for the role.

I agree with this.

My gut reaction was that I didn't like it because it is racist to change character's from one race to another. But the more I thought about it, the more I began to realize that this "mindset" may be the one that is truly racist. A white guy playing a white guy, or a black guy playing a black guy, we are way too focused on race. Race should not matter as much as it does, but unfortunately this simply isn't the case. Hopefully humans can reach a point where anyone can play anyone, and everyone is comfortable with it.

It is actually not about ethnicity, it's about watching chars you love being transformed in something that is totally different from whom you have been familiar with for years,

This is really all you needed to say. I understand your what you're saying, but the only difference is his skin color. I accept your opinion, I just disagree. No problem with that.

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#154 Posted by StatFan201 (68 posts) - - Show Bio

I say bring it on. How many non-american actors are getting roles based on American heroes? Wolverine is 5'3'' but is played by a guy that is 6'3" , Batman is played by a foreign actor so is Spiderman where was the outrage? As far as the sibling thing goes they can either be half-siblings are adopted. For everyone complaining about this possibility, this wouldn't be necessary if they would just make movies with minority superheroes in the first place. Another thing they need to stop doing is killing off black characters in everything. Also they should give more roles to young minority actors instead of just casting white actors and actresses because they are white even if they can't act.

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#155 Edited by Bogey (1022 posts) - - Show Bio

I guess the studio couldn't find a white person to play the Human Torch.

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#156 Posted by StatFan201 (68 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe: Ain't that the truth, Last airbender, Argo, dbz evolution, etc anyone? If people want to worry about source material so much why not set every superhero movie in the era in which it was created?

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#157 Edited by M3th (2106 posts) - - Show Bio

Why can't they get

Garrett Hedlund

Hayden Christensen

or better

Liam Hemsworth

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#158 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7475 posts) - - Show Bio

Leave it to Fox to make everything awkward.

Human Torch should be white, just as how Mandarin should have been Chinese and an actual villain.

Token Black Actor just be 'racially' diverse is racist in itself. Reminds me of all the Asian background actors in the Last Airbender.

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#159 Posted by Cheesecake13 (5 posts) - - Show Bio

I think for me there's a trade off when you deviate from the way a character I supposed to look. If they play the character really well, and that is the motivation for picking the actor eg. Samuel L FuryJackson then I'm totally on board. If they pick a black actor just to have a black actor it's stupid and racist in a pandering condescending kind of way :/

That being said, there have been times when an actor looks the part but can't play the character for sh!t. Ie. January Jones/Emma Frost

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#160 Posted by JulieDC (1269 posts) - - Show Bio

Even though I'm black (well technically, I'm biracial), I can't say I am a huge fan of this decision. I hate change just for the sake of change. That is why I could never get used to a female Robin and more than likely, never will. Maybe its also because I am a traditionalist but whatever.

I've noticed recently that Marvel (and by extension Disney) have been making changes to the comics (and cartoons, still upset they canceled the Avengers cartoon to make something similar to the film) to keep it in line with the movies. I don't really like that at all. Also, I feel like this is somewhat of a cop out because instead of using actual black characters, they think changing the race will suffice. Its an insult to both whites and blacks in my opinion and in the long run, it does little to address the lack of diversity because what will happen when the black kids watching this movie decide to look at the comics and come to the shocking discovery that they were grossly misled? And if the whole Nick Fury having a black son is anything to go by, if this movie is a success, Marvel will probably make some excuse to have a black Johnny Storm and that is a disservice to the fan base.

Besides, I also feel like this changes the dynamics entirely since Sue will still remain white. And well, I know its just a movie but the thing is, its not. People dedicate their time to these characters and others come along and destroy that history and all that work and their tend to be ramifications that are suffered by everyone but the person causing the damage.

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#161 Posted by ShadowX (1329 posts) - - Show Bio

I am 100% okay with this. Johnny Storms character is not tied to his ethnicity at all. Plus it gives more opprotunities too actors or colors. There are plenty of white characters in the media, and way less characters of color, so this is a great boost. Plus i can see this guy pulling off johnny based off his previous performances.

Second of all. Has nobody heard of interracial parents? If sue storm looks white and johnny storm Looks black its not that far of a stretch that they are siblings of an interracial couple. As a mixed kid myself( although latino and white and not white and black) i can confirm, kids of interracial couples dont turn out as perfect mixes of the two all the time. In fact sometimes siblings dont really look anything a like. Now true they can be half siblings or one could be adopted. Or they could make sue storm black. But im surprised people havent thought of interracial parents. What are we the 1950's?

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#162 Edited by HillbillyMorangie (987 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't care, I want to see a Illuminati movie, I can just about live without beast but not mr fantastic, also I'd like to see a fantastic four with she hulk film... So until fantastic four goes back to marvel, who ever is in it will just be temporary, it's nt like fox's fantastic four are cannon.

On a different note, I think changing sue and Johnny's races is a great idea, Samuel l Jackson has clearly shown that race does not matter then addressing characters... But also hard core fans who take issue are not racist, they want an actor who looks identical to the comics they love so 99% of actors won't look the part and no actor will be able to do any part without criticism from some corner of the marvel community.

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#163 Edited by sgu823 (218 posts) - - Show Bio

Why not make the entire cast black? Infact, let's take it a step further. Make Mr. Fantastic a fat, Asian man with one arm. Make Susan Storm a short, 70 year old Indian woman. All for the sake of equal opportunity, source material be damned.

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#164 Posted by HillbillyMorangie (987 posts) - - Show Bio

Saying that I was speaking int he pub the other day about the rumours that a black actor may play James Bond, I have no issue with that either... What I do have issue with is if all this happens at once, I can see a year when James Bond, dr who, the fantastic four, Spider-Man, mad max and ever other reboot changes the race and or gender of the characters... Knowing how studios jump on bandwagons I can really see that happening... That would be a bit weird and ott.

I'd read a comic about a fat one armed Asian superhero, but maybe it's time to just create new brands instead of relying on someone else's fan base and then annoying the hell out of that fan base.

On a none comic side note, Star Trek 12 has been voted the worse film by fans... I know it's not a question of race at all, but i think it's the same argument, maybe they should have just called it space trip renamed all the characters and not pretended to be a part of the franchise?

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#165 Posted by russellmania77 (17603 posts) - - Show Bio

yes but i bet if we made john stewart, static, war machine/iron patriot, black lightning, the falcon, or black panther white EVERYBODY would have a Sht fit

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#166 Posted by TommyJones1945 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

Wierd, first time I heard this I thought it was a joke. Reading OP now, it looks even more of a joke. Change for the sake of change sucks. If we're lucky this probably isn't true.

CIN.

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#167 Edited by homosexuality (66 posts) - - Show Bio

can iceman be black too.

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#168 Edited by Oscars94 (3124 posts) - - Show Bio

@omgomgwtfwtf: M Night Shyamalan got the races of all of the actors wrong.

Online
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#169 Posted by ownagepants (4996 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that if they're going to make storm white or black, the sister better match. No need to have one "adopted" or something like that. Totally unnecessary.

That is unnecessary since it has been proven that if the parent's are white and black they can spawn two children of different skin color so one could be white and the other black and be biological siblings.

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#170 Posted by DADDY_XERO (79 posts) - - Show Bio

I heard Johnny and sue won't even be related. and only reed and ben go into space. the whole film seems weak

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#171 Posted by GBandit (564 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it was a bad choice. They'll break the Sue and Johnny sibling relation which will take away the family bond between them. You know, its always felt like Mr F is daddy, Sue is mommy, Johnny is the annoying kid and Ben is that creepy uncle.

Now its like Mr F is a nerd with a girlfriend, Johnny is just some guy walking around and Ben is there for some reason.

I hope is not official. If they wanted a black guy in the cast just cast the thing as a black guy...

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#172 Posted by Alurvelve (3669 posts) - - Show Bio

I honestly thought this was a joke. On the bright side of this news. This movie will fail so horribly that it is just a matter of time for Marvel/Disney to get the rights back from Fox. Then maybe we can get a real FF4 movie.

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#173 Posted by JoeEddie (555 posts) - - Show Bio

Society has changed. 100 years from now, I believe all Caucasian characters will be a shade of brown.

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#174 Posted by Asura7 (7 posts) - - Show Bio

Michael B Jordan is playing the Human Torch AKA Johnny Baileygates

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#175 Posted by Dark Cloud™ (4244 posts) - - Show Bio

Sorry, Hollywood, you won't be getting my money this time. When this movie comes out, I will download it at theater quality, because that's all it will be worth. I don't care what anyone else thinks because this is entirely bullsh*t. Do not cast a black guy as a white guy who has over 50 years of comic book history, as many fans have stated before (especially for major characters). It's racist for a white guy to put on black face paint, but it isn't racism for two black guys to wear prosthetics and cream to pose as white chicks? Get real. Want a character that deserves movie face? Blue Marvel - excellent character, excellent history, excellent powers; put him in Avengers 2. Could make more Blade movies!

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#176 Posted by flameboy298 (2805 posts) - - Show Bio

Really hope this movie isn't a success I really really hope it isn't.

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#177 Edited by HuiZe (98 posts) - - Show Bio

MBJ is a talented actor, so it's all good for me. If you didn't cry about Bane being whitewashed by Nolan, don't cry about this. White actors have been cast as non-white characters a thousand times over.

Looking forward to it.

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#178 Edited by jayc1324 (20841 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm black and all for more diversity but I really hate it when they change established characters for the sake of diversity. I'd be OK with this if he and sue were still sisters, but nope that's screwed up too. Do they think siblings have to be the exact same color? Or race even? They could be half siblings or just have black and white parents. But no. Why not give black panther a movie if you want black characters so badly?

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#179 Posted by ludeawakening (5 posts) - - Show Bio

IMO this has nothing to do with racism. To prove I don't base this on race, a lot of people are complaining about it, but I completely agree with Falcon becoming Captain America in a movie at some point, BECAUSE IT'S SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN. But in the case of Johnny Storm, it's just ridiculous that Hollywood thinks they can change a character, just because they want to. They will do it no matter what anyone says, because all they care about is money. But to those who actually know the storyline to comics also know how retarded Hollywood really is. This will be by far the worst casting decision up to date for a superhero movie if they do this. They don't realize that if they cast it by how it's really supposed to be, they would make just as much profit, if not a little more. The worst part is, Marvel actually lets them do stupid crap like this. It goes to show what a washout and greedy company they are too. Even they don't care about the comics anymore.

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#180 Posted by KittyParker13 (3636 posts) - - Show Bio

Johnny Storm and Sue Storm aren't going to be siblings? D: I don't mind if they're both black, but I'd like them to still be siblings.

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#181 Posted by AssertingValor (7777 posts) - - Show Bio

The siblings should have both been black then, this diversity stuff is going in the wrong direction. What would people say if they made BP white or Storm arabian ?

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#182 Edited by kai200995 (36 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh these poor ignorant privileged children, they actually think Human Torch being casted by a talented black actor is racist. It's so petty I'm not even going to utilize this opportunity to educate these people on what racism really look like.

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#183 Edited by kai200995 (36 posts) - - Show Bio
@AssertingValor said:

The siblings should have both been black then, this diversity stuff is going in the wrong direction. What would people say if they made BP white or Storm arabian ?

Yeah b/c replacing members of an already unrepresented minority with the majority(white/men) is clearly the best case scenario. Arabian? Even though the people, culture and history, are all descended/originated/stemmed/developed from Africans it still wouldn't make sense to try and apply that to people with clearly established roots elsewhere.

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#184 Posted by AssertingValor (7777 posts) - - Show Bio

@kai200995: how is the history of Arabians descended from Africa alone?

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#185 Edited by kai200995 (36 posts) - - Show Bio
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#186 Posted by AssertingValor (7777 posts) - - Show Bio
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#187 Posted by kai200995 (36 posts) - - Show Bio

@AssertingValor: I'm laughing b/c you clearly saw "people, culture, and history" descended from Africa, and skipped to history. Question, if the culture and people descend from Africa, why shouldn't the history? To be brief the original Arabs, were Africans. There's multiple accounts and historical recordings stating this. They were called "pure Arab" by foreigners to make the distinction from "modern Arab", a mix of the Turks from the Ottoman Empire and many more later. Before this, the afrcan or indigenous Arabs were initially tribes, mostly led by queens. Therefore Arabian history descend from African/Moorish/Black history.

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#188 Edited by AssertingValor (7777 posts) - - Show Bio

@kai200995: ok idk why you threw that in there since Arabs were not black originally or largely today, and clearly existed at the same time as the Moors so how could their history and culture be descended from the moors. The Moors may have lived in Africa and the Iberian Penninsula, but you wana talk culture, then their way of life traces to Islam wich originated in Arabia not Africa.The traditional home land of the Arabs is in the southern Arabian Penninsula not Africa. Clearly the people, history, nor culture originated in Africa. The only reason Arabs exist in Africa was due to trade and the spread of Islamic culture and religion which also originated on the Arabian Penninsula, not Africa. Even before Islam, Arab people were decended from the Arabian Penninsula and Syria. If you wanna talk caveman times, then yes you are correct.. Arabs can trace their origins to Africa. And just because a people are from or lived in Africa, doesn't mean they have to be black.

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#189 Posted by kai200995 (36 posts) - - Show Bio

@AssertingValor:

The Moors may have lived in Africa and the Iberian Peninsula, but you wana talk culture, then their way of life traces to Islam wich originated in Arabia not Africa. The traditional home land of the Arabs is in the southern Arabian Penninsula not Africa. Clearly the people, history, nor culture originated in Africa

Firstly, your education, definition, and standard of "Arab", "moor" and "black" is called into question. The Moors, didn't just live in Africa, they travelled around the globe. They are the source of many practices that is used among the continents. (Using soap, domesticating animals with their own quarters, mathematics and various religions) Secondly, the original tribes of the land of what is now Arabia, these people were already practicing Islam. (These tribes were Arab and Berber, who was black, Moorish, and African.) These tribes were later conquered and ruled by the Turks of The Ottoman Empire. The Turks, who were pale or white, not only mixed among the indigenous tribes (making them lighter); they adopted Islam from them, adding with their own customs.

The only reason Arabs exist in Africa was due to trade and the spread of Islamic culture and religion which also originated on the Arabian Peninsula, not Africa own customs.

Africans were already, Muslim, Hebrew, and Christian before the "trade" you speak of even began.

The traditional home land of the Arabs is in the southern Arabian Peninsula not Africa

Which is funny because the indigenous tribes of southern Arabia who still live there, are black, and of African descent. These aren’t immigrants or settlers, these are people descended from tribes that founded and existed on the land, before Arabia was called Arabia.

And just because a people are from or lived in Africa, doesn't mean they have to be black.

How does that make sense? This calls into question your definition and education. Black is an umbrella term, referring to race. Someone who truly has roots or lineage in Africa, despite nationality, are black. This applies Middle East, Africa, South America, North America, the Caribbean, Asia, Brazil and Australia. I’m not speaking on terms of, “when mankind was born”, I’m speaking of black people. Just because a person a black/African person has mixed heritage, has lighter skin, speaks various languages, practices different religions,of different nationalities and ethnicities – does not make them “not African/black" whether they or you, acknowledge it or not.

The indigenous peoples of Arabia, according to The Encyclopedia Britannica (9th Edition):

“(Regarding) [t]he origin of the Arab race…the first certain fact on which to base our investigations is the ancient and undoubted division of the Arab race into two branches, the ‘Arab’ or pure; and the ‘Mostareb’ or adscititions…A second fact is, that everything in pro-Islamitic literature and record…concurs in representing the first settlement of the ‘pure’ Arabs as made on the extreme south-western point of the peninsula, near Aden, and then spreading northward and eastward…A third is the name Himyar, or ‘dusky’…a circumstance pointing, like the former, to African origin. A fourth is the Himyaritic language language…(The preserved words) are African in character, often in identity. Indeed, the dialect commonly used along the south-eastern coast hardly differs from that used by the (Somali) Africans on the opposite shore…Fifthly, it is remarkable that where the grammar of the Arabic, now spoken by the ‘pure’ Arabs, differs from that of the north, it approaches to or coincides with the Abyssinian…Sixthly, the pre-Islamitic institutions of Yemen and its allied provinces-its monarchies, courts, armies, and serfs-bear a marked resemblance to the historical Africao-Egyptian type, even to modern Abyssinian. Seventhly, the physical conformation of the pure-blooded Arab inhabitants of Yemen, Hadramaut, Oman, and the adjoining districts-the shape and size of head, the slenderness of the lower limbs, the comparative scantiness of hair, and other particulars-point in an African rather than an Asiatic direction. Eighthly, the general habits of the people,-given to sedentary rather than nomade occupations, fond of village life, of society, of dance and music; good cultivators of the soil, tolerable traders, moderate artisans, but averse to pastoral pursuits-have much more in common with those of the inhabitants of the African than with those of the western Asiatic continent. Lastly, the extreme facility of marriage which exists in all classes of the southern Arabs with the African races; the fecundity of such unions; and the slightness or even absence of any caste feeling between the dusky ‘pure’ Arab and the still darker native of modern Africa…may be regarded as pointing in the direction of a community of origin.”The Pure Arabs and the East Africans are indeed kith and kin. Bertram Thomas, historian and former Prime Minister of Muscat and Oman, reported in his work ‘The Arabs’:“The original inhabitants of Arabia…were not the familiar Arabs of our time but a very much darker people. A proto-negroid belt of mankind stretched across the ancient world from Africa to Malaya. This belt…(gave) rise to the Hamitic peoples of Africa, to the Dravidian peoples of India, and to an intermediate dark people inhabiting the Arabian peninsula. In the course of time two big migrations of fair-skinned peoples came from the north…to break through and transform the dark belt of man beyond India (and) to drive a wedge between India and Africa…The more virile invaders overcame the dark-skinned peoples, absorbing most of them, driving others southwards…The cultural condition of the newcomers is unknown. It is unlikely that they were more than wild hordes of adventurous hunters.”The Mahra Arabs, like the other northern and southern Black Arabs, are descendents of the aboriginal Africoid Arabians or Afrabians. They are not, as some would like to believe, descendents of “slaves and concubines.”

The Black Arabs or Afro-Arabs, The Rashaida, are an indigenous tribe currently living in Arabia.
The Black Arabs or Afro-Arabs, The Rashaida, are an indigenous tribe currently living in Arabia.

the Black Arab shown above is a Mahra Arab. The Mahra are indigenous Arabs of southern Arabia who are believed to be the living remnant of the Banu Ad Arabians who likely built the  fabled but recently discovered Imran civilization in south-east Arabia some five thousand years ago.
the Black Arab shown above is a Mahra Arab. The Mahra are indigenous Arabs of southern Arabia who are believed to be the living remnant of the Banu Ad Arabians who likely built the fabled but recently discovered Imran civilization in south-east Arabia some five thousand years ago.

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#190 Posted by tannedtiki (1 posts) - - Show Bio

WTF...If Hollywood wants a representation of the US population...then the role should have been given to an Hispanic / Latino!

And Hispanics / Latino's are not White!!! (as one black coworker once told me)

Just sayin!

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#191 Posted by noelstreet (1 posts) - - Show Bio

Can anyone please tell me what company gave into the politically correct group and gave a black man a role that since the Fantastic Four first claim to be was a white man? Thank you, have a nice day

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#192 Posted by TonyStewart (1 posts) - - Show Bio

It's sad that they have to MAKE the original heroes Black... there should have been more powerful ones to begin with! Take the X-Men, definitely based on the social situation at the time... Professor X - Martin L. King Jr. and Magneto - Malcolm X... but not one bother to make them Black.... I understand to that you write for your audience but now that society has merged more new more powerful characters need to come into existence in the Marvel and DC world ... characters that are NOT based on changing original characters.

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